The amount of light in maps
Garo
Join Date: 2005-01-07 Member: 33134Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver, Subnautica Playtester
Join Date: 2005-01-07 Member: 33134Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver, Subnautica Playtester
<div class="IPBDescription">Had quality fun with darkness plugin today</div>There's a darkness plugin in www.VH2.nl server, which the admins occassionaly turn on. Today we played a few games of eclipse and bast where the lights were turned into minimum. One could still easily navigate throught the map and see moving aliens, but the marine flashlight was practically required to spot aliens.
I posted two pictures (they are as-in from the game, just used photoshop to crop and attach them both into same picture) which illustrates the amount of light we had during the play. As the HL1 flashlight is a poor gludge, it's pretty hard to use, but imagine the possibilities what HL2 flashlight could offer (see other players cone of light etc <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" /> )
I believe that there could be a good balance if some parts of the map would be pitch black, some bright and the rest from the middle. Then add flares (each marine could carry one or two as default), weapons to illuminate the area as they are used etc. Awesome, I'd say.
What does you people think, could it work or any better ideas and suggestions?
I posted two pictures (they are as-in from the game, just used photoshop to crop and attach them both into same picture) which illustrates the amount of light we had during the play. As the HL1 flashlight is a poor gludge, it's pretty hard to use, but imagine the possibilities what HL2 flashlight could offer (see other players cone of light etc <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" /> )
I believe that there could be a good balance if some parts of the map would be pitch black, some bright and the rest from the middle. Then add flares (each marine could carry one or two as default), weapons to illuminate the area as they are used etc. Awesome, I'd say.
What does you people think, could it work or any better ideas and suggestions?
Comments
Flares: Definately. I can already see it. You run in to this long dark tunnel and realise you just spent your last flare and you can't see anything, panic!
Brightness in general: I feel that Aliens should have much better nightvision than humans, as it is often very hard to navigate dark ventilation shafts, and due to the lack of directional arrows such as AvP2 has, you often get very disoriented.
and aliens already have a sort of thrmal vision press the F key, how ever i msut agree this F key also needs to light up at bare minimum the next few feet and not have a glow the enamy can see, it would help navigating vents much so
Heatvision/alien flashlight should give a disadvantage to aliens like the flashlight does to marines. Slower movement? More noisy? Prone to blindness if lights come on/hit by flashlight?
Heatvision/alien flashlight should give a disadvantage to aliens like the flashlight does to marines. Slower movement? More noisy? Prone to blindness if lights come on/hit by flashlight?
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HL2 supports HDR (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_dynamic_range_imaging), which should be IMO used in NS2. Your posting gave me an idea that if alien uses flashlight, the HDR effect would be much higher than normally. So if marine illuminates alien with marines flashlight, which is in turn using aliens flashlight, the alien would get completly blind due to the powerfull flashlight for a few seconds.
Also the HDR effect in dark hallways would be a two ending sword: It illuminates the walls, but if there are objects which casts shadows, an alien could easily hide in those shadows without any marine ever noticing it, unless waiting for a while (without any light affecting marines eyes) so that his eyes gets adjusted into the darkness.
- Garo
Right now in NS1, nothing really scares you. I'm sure that this alone would alleady create a WAY better atmosphere.
Flares and dark rooms FTW
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indeed! Let's get back to the origin of ns_mapping <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
I always loved the ambient back then in the times of 2.0 which then unfortunately got destroyed because the mappers were forced to brighten the maps up. I don't know why and who complained about all that...it's Aliens vs Marines..have you ever seen a movie or read a book with such bright areas being showed or described? I don't think so.
Several areas in a particular map have the possibility that once Creep passes over a certain area, that the electricity is cut off and the lights go dead. The marines are forced to trek through this darkened and newly sinister area to clear the creep, find the power console, and restore the lights.
Imagine getting orders to run to a res node, opening a door, and finding darkness inside. I can hear it already, "Sh*t, they've gotten this far already?" Reports are called in, backup requested, and the soldiers venture in.
I like the idea of the alien flashlight becoming a bit more like night vision. I think the idea of a flashlight blinding might be a bit strong, though. How about a flashlight makes it hard to see, but no lasting effect - the light would have to be trained on the alien to blind it. But if you crack a flare while the alien's looking your way... Maybe something along the lines of a CS:S flashbang?
edit:
Another possibility for one or two maps:
Marines are forced to bring in a generator of some kind due to repeated power failures. (I have no idea if this generator is destructable or not) This generator allows power to go to some areas, but only a few at a time. Like if there are five cooridors that are consistently dark, this generator can only light up two or three. This gives the commander a whole new degree of importance, figuring out what marines need help and light, and which marines are talented enough to venture the dark. It also sets the stage for very sophisticated MARINE ambushes where the comm can suddenly hit the lights and temporarily confuse the aliens.
Aliens hiding in the darkness?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No they prefer to stay on the floor, visible for any single idiot coming by to get shot. Please use your braincells before posting such crap. I hope you've been kidding with your post... Aliens are no distance-fighters (exept lerks and fades with acid rocket)..they are at their best at close combat. And to get into close combat you need to hide and surprise the enemy.
Darkness is a major element an Alien can't live long without and that's the reason you can't simply remove or change it. I'm already ###### off by some of the old maps which have been revised too much. Most of the dark corners have been lightened up or completely removed, just because of some "pro-kids" screaming "I CAN'T SEEE!! FIX IT!!11oneeleven"
Think of how people have NS now, gamma, and brightness up full, consistency breaking models which show up massive brightness, and colour differentials for each team.
Then think of how your house is. Not every square inch of it can be lit at any one time, especially for bigger houses. Now think about it if you turned off half the lights, and had some of the rest flicker. These are supposed to be spaceships/stations that have been invaded by the bacterium, and have been damaged somewhat. Not every bit of it is going to be lit. Most of it is going to be in darkness. And the parts where it is light, you might be wishing it was darker...
If you could make dynamic lighting into a NS2 (think of opening the fridge in Deus Ex 2:Invisible War, and you're bang on), then I'd pay through the nose for it. As long as you could enforce some form of standard for models (like forced consistency for player models), and control the settings abuse, then you'd have all the atmosphere you can get <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
For whatever reason this aspect of the game seems to have been diluted - whether that be via the introduction of brighter maps or the amount of players who are now pumping up their gamma and brightness. The development of NS2 is a great opportunity to introduce a thick, scary atmosphere which the game is currently lacking.
I found my AVP gold disk the other night, and it was really striking just how effective they were at laying the atmosphere on thick. For a game released in '99, it was (and still is) really quite stunning - and something more or less unique in the fps genre as a whole. Simple stuff - the motion senser, dark rooms, flickering lights, the music - all used brilliantly. I'd absolutely love to see this introduced into NS2.
In practical terms, there have been so many great ideas posted in this thread. Personally i like the idea of specific weapons which illuminate - it's a simple way to introduce a teamwork mechanic into the game. How about a flaregun? Much like the current grenade launcher, but instead it launches flares which cast a dim red light on the surroundings. For anyone who has seen The Descent, the scenes which incorporate flares sum this idea up in a great visual style.
Other than that, i love the idea of dynamic lighting. Imagine the scene. There are isolated battles throughout the ship as the Kharaa are pushed back, room by room. The marines just seem to be gaining the upper hand when suddenly the lights are cut - the Kharaa have managed to push their way into engineering and the dynamic infestation has disabled the generator. Orange emergency lights flicker on, briefly outlining objects in the stale air, but much of the ship is shrouded in complete darkness. The commander hasn't yet researched flares, and so the marines have to battle their way back to base in isolated pockets - as certain important doors have lost power and the marines have to take a different, alien infested route back to base. Muzzle flashes and weak flashlights are all they have to illuminate the approaching Kharaa as they are picked off one by one. Far fetched, fair enough, but this is the kind of situation i always imagined NS would incorporate.
Sorry for the long post, but lighting and atmosphere are in my opinion the most important factor in NS, and something i am very passionate about <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
It was the outstanding atmosphere and ambience that drew me towards the original 1.0, way back in the day. It was unique for a hl mod at that time, and i absolutely loved it. NS has a unique visual style, and my biggest hope for NS2 is that the devs take this to the limits. My favourite moments were never getting 100 kills or whatever, but the moments where the game was totally immersive and everything just clicked - defending a dark atmosphere processing to the last man, sneaking into a hive, dodging every passing alien, heart beating. Hell, i used to actually jump when skulks ambushed me <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
For whatever reason this aspect of the game seems to have been diluted - whether that be via the introduction of brighter maps or the amount of players who are now pumping up their gamma and brightness. The development of NS2 is a great opportunity to introduce a thick, scary atmosphere which the game is currently lacking.
..........
Other than that, i love the idea of dynamic lighting. Imagine the scene. There are isolated battles throughout the ship as the Kharaa are pushed back, room by room. The marines just seem to be gaining the upper hand when suddenly the lights are cut - the Kharaa have managed to push their way into engineering and the dynamic infestation has disabled the generator. Orange emergency lights flicker on, briefly outlining objects in the stale air, but much of the ship is shrouded in complete darkness. The commander hasn't yet researched flares, and so the marines have to battle their way back to base in isolated pockets - as certain important doors have lost power and the marines have to take a different, alien infested route back to base. Muzzle flashes and weak flashlights are all they have to illuminate the approaching Kharaa as they are picked off one by one. Far fetched, fair enough, but this is the kind of situation i always imagined NS would incorporate.
Sorry for the long post, but lighting and atmosphere are in my opinion the most important factor in NS, and something i am very passionate about <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
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Yeah, the lighting and atmosphere are one of the biggest aspects of this game. and the dynamic scenario that you presented is brilliant!
-Sheepe
All lights start on, but each section of a map has a light control section, where aliens can destroy it to turn off the lights, and marines can weld it to fix what the aliens destroyed.
Skulks already have way too many spots to hide in, don't need more incentive to camp. It's not about crapping your pants, it's about having a usable flashlight to some extent.
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aliens are supposed 2 hide and use darkness ! skulks need more hiding spots are u just an all marine player
Due to differences in monitors, graphics cards, and graphics settings, you'll never get a level playing field. Some people will be able to see easily and others won't be able to see anything.
Darkness is all well-and-good for single player, but it just doesn't work well for multiplay.
/v3ga
1stdayplaying: it must really be your first day playing NS. You should probably check your not actually still playing CS:S or something because there are loads of dark places in NS. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
<!--quoteo(post=1602349:date=Jan 28 2007, 01:07 PM:name=TheMuffinMan)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TheMuffinMan @ Jan 28 2007, 01:07 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1602349"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->...
In practical terms, there have been so many great ideas posted in this thread. Personally i like the idea of specific weapons which illuminate - it's a simple way to introduce a teamwork mechanic into the game. How about a flaregun? Much like the current grenade launcher, but instead it launches flares which cast a dim red light on the surroundings. For anyone who has seen The Descent, the scenes which incorporate flares sum this idea up in a great visual style.
Other than that, i love the idea of dynamic lighting. Imagine the scene. There are isolated battles throughout the ship as the Kharaa are pushed back, room by room. The marines just seem to be gaining the upper hand when suddenly the lights are cut - the Kharaa have managed to push their way into engineering and the dynamic infestation has disabled the generator. Orange emergency lights flicker on, briefly outlining objects in the stale air, but much of the ship is shrouded in complete darkness. The commander hasn't yet researched flares, and so the marines have to battle their way back to base in isolated pockets - as certain important doors have lost power and the marines have to take a different, alien infested route back to base. Muzzle flashes and weak flashlights are all they have to illuminate the approaching Kharaa as they are picked off one by one. Far fetched, fair enough, but this is the kind of situation i always imagined NS would incorporate.
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I really like the idea of a flare gun, maybe this could be the secondary fire for the GL?
Your far fetched idea isn't impossible. Would just involve naming all the lights in game that you wanted to be affected and then having a switch/trigger that turned off all the lights in the level and turned on orange lights in the same areas. Long, but not hard or impossible.
<!--quoteo(post=1650684:date=Sep 20 2007, 01:22 PM:name=V3GA)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(V3GA @ Sep 20 2007, 01:22 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1650684"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->How about a light stand that the commander could place next to a turret factory. Kind of like the sentry turret, but with a light on top, that draws power from the turret factory. Would be cool if the marines wanted set up a base in a dark room. "Light turret" world off course switch off if the turret factory is destroyed, like the "light turret" it self could be destroyed.
/v3ga<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Or just making the Turrets/buildings having lights built in?
I think it would be nice to have a flashlight that attached to your gun, with an animation, like putting a silencer on in CS:S. I think most guns have flashlight attachments, don't they? So it would make sense to continue to have them in the future. That or have a light fixed to the marines helmet/armour just like Aliens (film), which is probably more likely. I think it would be stupid to have one player holding a flashlight and not being able to hold a gun, these are high tech futuristic marines, not a group of rookie kids trying to find their tent in the dark with their grandma’s big old torch.
Even if they didn't have light attachments, they would still know how to hold a flash light and their gun, people have two hands you know and LED lights are getting smaller and smaller, using less power. So I'm sure in the future it's not implausible to suggest that the marines have their lights built into their guns or armour, or at very least able to hold them while holding a gun.
I also like the idea of the Kharaa having thermo vision/night vision, or maybe a range of different visions that a player can scroll through, much like Splinter Cell. And having it night vision being affected by light. At the moment the current alien “flashlight†is affected by light areas, as in its much harder to spot things when they have white/light backgrounds behind them.
Rather than having some effect that covers a players screen for a set amount of time (like flash bangs in CS:S or BF2) it should be more of, where a light is over a certain level of brightness the players vision is bleached out. That means if you enter a room and half of it is really bright and half is really dark, if you stood so half your screen was filled with the bright side and half with the dark, you would be able to see stuff in the dark area with your alien “flashlight†on and not in the light area. This flashlight would be much like when you are in a dark area you can only see bits of things that have light on them, but then reverse it; so when you have your flashlight on in a bright area, most of it would be white, but then dark areas would be more visible.
Imagine a skulk standing at the end of long dark corridor, light flooding in from a very brightly lit room at the opposite end of the corridor. If the skulk looks at the other end of the corridor, they will see everything that the light is touching as it comes in from the room, but wont see the rest of the corridor that is in the dark. If however they switch on their “flashlight†they will see all the dark areas reasonably clearly, but the doorway to the corridor (where all the light is coming from) will be bleached out, all white. If they stand like this and wait for a marine to walk into the darkness they will see his silhouette in the white and be able to pick him off quite easily, but if the marine turns on his flashlight and points it at the skulk, the skulk won’t be able to see most of him because of the flashlight. By this point the skulk would be pretty much dead any way, that is if the marine had got a chance to turn on his flashlight in the first place <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
Basically: VOTE: <!--coloro:#00FF00--><span style="color:#00FF00"><!--/coloro-->YES<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> to night vision for aliens.
Regardless of what the developers choose, the Aliens need a better flashlight, just not a beam of light, cause that wouldn’t fit at all, something more natural.