Bhopping 2
Cole
Join Date: 2002-11-13 Member: 8392Members
Join Date: 2002-11-13 Member: 8392Members
Sorry, this will most likely incite riot, but I'm interested to know if bunny hopping will continue to play a role moving forward in NS2.
The forums are riddled with previous discussions about what bunny hopping is and what its means, but I don't care about that crap.
Simple yes, no, or maybe, else this post will probably be locked.
The forums are riddled with previous discussions about what bunny hopping is and what its means, but I don't care about that crap.
Simple yes, no, or maybe, else this post will probably be locked.
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
Games like Natural Selection, Science and Industry, Day of Defeat, CPMA, Warsow, etc are all incredibly fun games. What do they have in common? A skill-based movement system (especially CPMA and Warsow, where it's easy to gain a moderate speed increase but more difficult to fly so fast your gun disappears from your hands). In DoD, you can sprint-glidejump. NS and S&I have bunnyhopping. CS has aircontrol and (limited) bunnyhopping.
I just want to know if its going to be there or not, and I'm sure many others do as well. I don't care what anyone likes or dislikes about it, etc etc. This has all been done and said before.
Is it going to be there, or not. Thats it.
The removal of bunny hopping in CS pretty much killed that game for me, even though it made the game more immersing.
In the NS2 poll on the front page, I wrote "Do not remove bunnyhopping" for the comments question. I think that would be a good question for him to add if he ever does the poll again.
come on.. individual skill is necessary, and the team takes advantage of that as a whole.
I'm going to go ahead and pre-ruin your thread
Games like Natural Selection, Science and Industry, Day of Defeat, CPMA, Warsow, etc are all incredibly fun games. What do they have in common? A skill-based movement system (especially CPMA and Warsow, where it's easy to gain a moderate speed increase but more difficult to fly so fast your gun disappears from your hands). In DoD, you can sprint-glidejump. NS and S&I have bunnyhopping. CS has aircontrol and (limited) bunnyhopping.
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/agree this is very well said and explaned..thats one of the reasons why I play the game
Remove the mechanic, and we wont have to deal with it anymore. Its not a skill lol, its a exploitation of game mechanics.
others like you right?
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no?
I just dont feel the game needs b-hopping. I can b-hop just fine, but the actual need to do it makes me confused.
The aliens advantage on marines is movement, and bunny hopping takes a good amount of this away. Nothing like seeing a marine back hopping as far as you forward jump almost.
It should be a skill for aliens only since this is what they're specialized in. Marines have range; Bunny hopping is not some thing they should get too.
Bunny hopping and all other physics defying engine glitch "skillz" seriously kill game emersion. Am I the only one that still believes NS(2) is supposed to be about teamwork, and not indevidual skill?
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No you are not alone. I've been about teamwork for a long time.
feelings about NS
Teamwork = <b><!--coloro:green--><span style="color:green"><!--/coloro-->yes<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--></b>
deadly when in squads, weak as solo
Marines are ranged = <b><!--coloro:green--><span style="color:green"><!--/coloro-->yes<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--></b>
Aliens are mobile and melee = <b><!--coloro:green--><span style="color:green"><!--/coloro-->yes<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--></b>
For example I think Extralevels 3 (aka xmenu) shouldn't have the cybernetics upgrade for marines. Infact, I wish they'd give it under a different name as an upgade for aliens.
Bunny hopping and all other physics defying engine glitch "skillz" seriously kill game emersion. Am I the only one that still believes NS(2) is supposed to be about teamwork, and not indevidual skill?
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I can name you FPS games that don't have any marked individual skill element, but you won't like any of them, and they really didn't sell well in the slightest. Pointing the mouse pointer at things and holding a button is a pretty weak "skill", to the point where CS and DoD both added all kinds of crazy gun kick rules to give the player something else to think about. I stopped being seriously immersed by NS as soon as I figured out the tech tree in detail, long before I understood what bunnyhopping is. Simply put it's impossible to build a game that immerses your average player indefinitely. The trick is to balance skillfully between the two so the immersion element lasts as long as possible and then seamlessly transfers into an addictive skill development process.
This post isn't in any way saying "OMG WE NEED BHOPPING" but I want to point out very clearly that you're missing the point of playing competitive FPS games if you think skill is the enemy of immersion. There's no point at all in pitting one team against another if you don't intend to allow people to develop and wield skillfulness against each other. Multi player movie watching would be about what you'd be going for with that project.
Movement is extremely important in games, and one of the biggest attractions of NS, to me, was the varied alien movement - leaping, flying, blinking, wall walking, etc etc. All great devices, all fit in with the game. Bunny hopping doesn't, and never has. I'm a big believer in the atmosphere of a game, so much so that i've always played with my gamma and brightness way, way down to get something extra out of the game - my biggest hope for NS2 is a more involved and detailed game which really sucks you in. The problem with bhopping is that it just doesn't fit in with the game. It looks complicated, ungainly and at times quite ridiculous.
Bhopping in some games is brilliant, and adds to the game. SI is a great example. The game is rapid, 100 m/ph, in your face. Bunny hopping works as a movement system, same story in most deathmatch/frag based games involving bhopping. But as i've said, i've just never felt that it works in NS. I know it's pretty much classed as a feature now, but it doesn't fit in with the game and at times can completely ruin the atmosphere.
From a balancing point of view, every trace of bhopping should be removed from the marines. The marines shouldn't get ANY advantage in movement terms until they get the JP. Aliens are fine, and it's my experience that the game is balanced with ultra-quick bhopping aliens. Assuming that this is carried on into NS2, then it's an important balancing feature. Remove bhopping, but in it's place build another more intuitive movement system which fits in with the theme of the game. That idea warrants a thread of its own, but i'm sure the devs can think of something.
On the topic of 'individual skill vs teamwork', i don't think that the argument really holds much water. You can change the marines around until they're unable to kill any aliens alone, and hence must travel in groups. That's got nothing to do with toning down individual skill though. The cream will still rise to the top, so to speak. There are ways to make the game easier for new players, but at the top of the chain you'll still find the same players. Teamwork is much needed in NS, but individual skill doesn't need to be sacrificed to achieve a good level of teamwork.
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Uhm... whats so intuative about "the shortest distance between two points is *not* a straight line" ?
and Onos hopping, lollerskates. Perhaps if its zero grav.
If we are going to fix the HL engine, lets get rid of wall (friction accel) run!!
From a balancing point of view, every trace of bhopping should be removed from the marines. The marines shouldn't get ANY advantage in movement terms until they get the JP. Aliens are fine, and it's my experience that the game is balanced with ultra-quick bhopping aliens. Assuming that this is carried on into NS2, then it's an important balancing feature. Remove bhopping, but in it's place build another more intuitive movement system which fits in with the theme of the game. That idea warrants a thread of its own, but i'm sure the devs can think of something.
On the topic of 'individual skill vs teamwork', i don't think that the argument really holds much water. You can change the marines around until they're unable to kill any aliens alone, and hence must travel in groups. That's got nothing to do with toning down individual skill though. The cream will still rise to the top, so to speak. There are ways to make the game easier for new players, but at the top of the chain you'll still find the same players. Teamwork is much needed in NS, but individual skill doesn't need to be sacrificed to achieve a good level of teamwork.
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This man knows what he is talking about.