Alteration to Focus
Kittamaru
Join Date: 2006-09-18 Member: 58017Members
Join Date: 2006-09-18 Member: 58017Members
<div class="IPBDescription">My take on the Anger thread, since it seems to have been derailed</div>Why not make focus do this.
If you hold your mouse button down, it's like the current attack (fast, no damage increase, blah blah)
The longer you DON'T press the button, the more damage you do, and the longer it takes before you can attack with that same attack again (eg, if you run around, you see a rine, you come up, BAM, first bite is a full focus bite, it takes the focus ammount of time before you can bite again, but then you bite at normal damage and normal speed unless you wait a few seconds for focus to engage again)
I always thought Focus should be more of a "first strike" kind of thing anyway <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
If you hold your mouse button down, it's like the current attack (fast, no damage increase, blah blah)
The longer you DON'T press the button, the more damage you do, and the longer it takes before you can attack with that same attack again (eg, if you run around, you see a rine, you come up, BAM, first bite is a full focus bite, it takes the focus ammount of time before you can bite again, but then you bite at normal damage and normal speed unless you wait a few seconds for focus to engage again)
I always thought Focus should be more of a "first strike" kind of thing anyway <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
Comments
This system WOULD penalize good players b/c they hit and run a lot more often that bad players (who hit once and run ALL the way back to the hive).... Soo...maybe it's not a good idea.
Because you could just leap/blink in, swipe once with the full focus, and then one normal strike. You would basically deal 3-times the normal damage in nearly the same time.
But I'm not sure wich of the ideas for focus would be better (hold button to "charge" focus or don't press button at all). I like the both <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
I like your idea, but the damage bonus given by focus would have to be reduced, or else it would be overpowered.
Because you could just leap/blink in, swipe once with the full focus, and then one normal strike. You would basically deal 3-times the normal damage in nearly the same time.
But I'm not sure wich of the ideas for focus would be better (hold button to "charge" focus or don't press button at all). I like the both <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
When you use focused attack you still have to wait the normal cooldown before doing a normal attack. The other way around you need to hold attack to focus after doing a normal attack. Seems fair to me.
Why the hell should there be a focus attack when you tap the mouse instead of holding? that makes no sense.
Why the hell should there be a focus attack when you tap the mouse instead of holding? that makes no sense.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So if you are surprised by an enemy you can focus attack stright away, then follow up with some quicker, but less powerful, tap attacks. as opposed to taking 2 seconds to charge up an attack.
Ether way I think it will be better than the current system.
So if you are surprised by an enemy you can focus attack stright away, then follow up with some quicker, but less powerful, tap attacks. as opposed to taking 2 seconds to charge up an attack.
Ether way I think it will be better than the current system.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No you cant do a "quick" attack since you need to HOLD for a NORMAL attack thus creating confusion.
No you cant do a "quick" attack since you need to HOLD for a NORMAL attack thus creating confusion.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think you misunderstood Kittamaru's idea (or I did <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wow.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":0" border="0" alt="wow.gif" /> )
If you click your mouse button once, you will do an attack. What kind of attack depends on how long ago you did the last attack. So if you waited a while, you will have a focused attack, but if not, then it will have normal damage.
If you hold down your mouse button then you will do repeated (normal) attacks. (like in the current version when you don't have focus)
I think you misunderstood Kittamaru's idea (or I did <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wow.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":0" border="0" alt="wow.gif" /> )
If you click your mouse button once, you will do an attack. What kind of attack depends on how long ago you did the last attack. So if you waited a while, you will have a focused attack, but if not, then it will have normal damage.
If you hold down your mouse button then you will do repeated (normal) attacks. (like in the current version when you don't have focus)
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So I cant do the first attack not focused since I've, as you say, waited a while?
Thus, it does the same damage as current, but with more variation on how you work it.
<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
Two addition suggestions: (plz vote <b><!--coloro:#33CC00--><span style="color:#33CC00"><!--/coloro-->yes<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--></b>, <b><!--coloro:#CC0000--><span style="color:#CC0000"><!--/coloro-->no<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--></b>, or explain)
1. In combat make it deal 50% more damage when done from a fully cloaked alien (sound familiar to you D&D people?)
2. Unique v_ and p_ animations for a charged focus attack (like Halo 2's forward lunge attack with plasma sword that leaves players with a satisfied feeling)
In general principle I love this idea but I also have concerns of expoits or penalizing good players. I would love to explore this idea though. But it shouldn't be something on release like the TFC sniper rifle. Just a measure of delay from last attack. Otherwise it's still normal.
vote <!--coloro:#33CC00--><span style="color:#33CC00"><!--/coloro--><b>yes</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
You have gained a veteran I&S member's approval Kittamaru. Good thinking. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
<!--coloro:#FFCC00--><span style="color:#FFCC00"><!--/coloro-->Challenge question<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->: How would one compensate for latency with this?
if you tap the attack button afterwards, he just does a normal bite. the only way this affects gameplay, apart from your first bite doing some serious damage, is that you will have to contantly have to tap the attack to chomp a res node, instead of just holding it down.... that could get annoying real fast.
but then again, who chomps rt's with a focus upgrade?
also, i would love to see (and hear) a gorge charging up a spit, a real big loogie, and hitting a marine in the chest with it <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
hold down the attack, and the 'bear trap' opens, the longer you hold, the more tension in the skulks jaws, therefore more power when you release the attack button.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
exactly this option was already discussed <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?s=8364215076039599104&showtopic=99646" target="_blank">here</a>.
Kittamaru posted this thread as an alternative to that solution.
As I said i don't know which one of the 2 ideas would be the better one.
Both solutions would make focus stronger, because you could choose if you want a focus attack or if you want to chomp on some buildings. With the current implementation in NS1 you're stuck with focus whether you like it or not.
I think both would require some kind of indicater of "how focused" your attack is. (either HUD like the new cloaking bar or in the weapon model)
@ the_x5
1: <!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->no<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> - I wouldn't want that (and who says that CO will still be in NS2 <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/nerd-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::nerdy::" border="0" alt="nerd-fix.gif" /> )
2: <!--coloro:#33FF33--><span style="color:#33FF33"><!--/coloro-->yes<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> - I like that idea, but i don't know how you'd notice the differences yourself given the first-person perspective
And I don't think either of these 2 ideas would penalize good players. Also I don't know why any such changes to focus would result in difficulties for latency compensation. (the Source netcode is already much better then gldsrc's netcode)
So I cant do the first attack not focused since I've, as you say, waited a while?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Your first attack is allways charged to be focus, beacuse you have 'waited a while' since focus has had the time to charge up since your last fight, after that focus attack you would need to wait a little for your next attack to be a focus one, OR just click away and do lots of normal attacks. Thus giving you the option of focus when you want it and fast attacks when you need them ( eg Chomping down an rt).
*EDIT* Sorry I miss read what you said. No i suppose you couldent do your first attack not focused, dunno why you wouldent want to though.
Kind of like the TFC sniper gun? Only it's melee?
<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
Two addition suggestions: (plz vote <b><!--coloro:#33CC00--><span style="color:#33CC00"><!--/coloro-->yes<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--></b>, <b><!--coloro:#CC0000--><span style="color:#CC0000"><!--/coloro-->no<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--></b>, or explain)
1. In combat make it deal 50% more damage when done from a fully cloaked alien (sound familiar to you D&D people?)
2. Unique v_ and p_ animations for a charged focus attack (like Halo 2's forward lunge attack with plasma sword that leaves players with a satisfied feeling)
In general principle I love this idea but I also have concerns of expoits or penalizing good players. I would love to explore this idea though. But it shouldn't be something on release like the TFC sniper rifle. Just a measure of delay from last attack. Otherwise it's still normal.
vote <!--coloro:#33CC00--><span style="color:#33CC00"><!--/coloro--><b>yes</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
You have gained a veteran I&S member's approval Kittamaru. Good thinking. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
<!--coloro:#FFCC00--><span style="color:#FFCC00"><!--/coloro-->Challenge question<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->: How would one compensate for latency with this?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Woo! I feel special <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
As for latency, what do you mean? As far as determining time? Just have it as a single digit counter that runs from last attack input from the player, whether his PC shows it or not.
Woo! I feel special <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
As for latency, what do you mean? As far as determining time? Just have it as a single digit counter that runs from last attack input from the player, whether his PC shows it or not.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're welcome.
I mean as in lag spikes and packet loss. Expect the problem. I'm trying to make you aware of how that might affect it and how to cope early on when the idea is workable. A good practice for any software development.
<!--quoteo(post=1598272:date=Jan 13 2007, 02:50 AM:name=demm)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(demm @ Jan 13 2007, 02:50 AM) [snapback]1598272[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
...because you could choose if you want a focus attack or if you want to chomp on some buildings...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wow.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":0" border="0" alt="wow.gif" /> <b>What a great idea!!!</b> Focus gives you a choice to toggle on/off focused attacking mode. That's good for skilled players to learn as well.
Nice. No one would have to figure out how to implement.
vote <b><!--coloro:#33CC00--><span style="color:#33CC00"><!--/coloro-->yes<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--></b>
<!--quoteo(post=1598272:date=Jan 13 2007, 02:50 AM:name=demm)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(demm @ Jan 13 2007, 02:50 AM) [snapback]1598272[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
I think both would require some kind of indicater of "how focused" your attack is. (either HUD like the new cloaking bar or in the weapon model) <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm against adding even more sprites on the HUD. It's crowded enough and could use less, not more clutter. (especially with AMXX servers doing map votes and the like in-game) But it's a good idea and there are otehr means of showing an indication:
sound / audible indicator
model / animation indicator <-- I like this the best, it's the least intrusive when you're trying to be stealthy (and need all of the visual and auditory data your brain can get about your surroundings)
<!--quoteo(post=1598272:date=Jan 13 2007, 02:50 AM:name=demm)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(demm @ Jan 13 2007, 02:50 AM) [snapback]1598272[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
@ <b>x5</b>
1: <!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->no<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> - I wouldn't want that (and who says that CO will still be in NS2 <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/nerd-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::nerdy::" border="0" alt="nerd-fix.gif" /> )
2: <!--coloro:#33CC00--><span style="color:#33CC00"><!--/coloro-->yes<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> - I like that idea, but i don't know how you'd notice the differences yourself given the first-person perspective<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Aww. Why wouldn’t you want that? The Dungeons & Dragons reference was towards sneak attack. Take a look in a player’s guide to read how it works if you don’t know.
It would also create an alternate upgrade route for 3 points, rather than early lerk (1 pt. = adren, 2 pts. = lerk lifeform) and early xenocide (1 pt. = 1st hive ability, 2 pts. 2nd hive ability)
<!--quoteo(post=1598272:date=Jan 13 2007, 02:50 AM:name=demm)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(demm @ Jan 13 2007, 02:50 AM) [snapback]1598272[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
And I don't think either of these 2 ideas would penalize good players. Also I don't know why any such changes to focus would result in difficulties for latency compensation. (the Source netcode is already much better then gldsrc's netcode)
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh hell yes! And don’t forget the Havok physics system. *wink*
But don’t kid yourself. Network WAN lag spikes and packet loss will still be a problem and as talked about at the GDC ( <a href="http://www.gdconf.com/" target="_blank">http://www.gdconf.com/</a> ) developers need to stop ignoring or being surprised by it and start expecting it.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
INITIAL LAGMETER RESULTS ARE IN - HERE'S HOW YOUR DATA BREAKS DOWN.
TUESDAY, JUNE 20TH 2006
We have analyzed, scrutinized, and studied the preliminary data of your submitted LagMeter results, and they are truly amazing! We received about 1200 submissions in the first couple of weeks, which is phenomenal. Thank you all, and keep those results coming! The more data we can gather, the more ammunition we will have in our fight against Lag.
OK, the envelope please! (insert corny drum roll)
<img src="http://xzianthia.net/images/lagmeter_results.gif" border="0" alt="IPB Image" />
Take a look at the graph above. On average, users experienced 74 lags per minute! The impact to PERFORMANCE and SPEED of our systems and games with this many lags per minute (LPM) can be crippling. The biggest percentage of LPM’s came at the network level. As defined, packet loss or ping spike for every 50ms above 100ms. Client Lag ranked #2, meaning we are seeing less that 45FPS or 95% CPU time every couple of seconds. Server Lag is still a heavy contributor. A variation of longer than 100ms (minus ping) between simultaneous packets will flag a lag in this bucket.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->