NS League Systems, "Future" of Competitive NS
elim
Join Date: 2002-11-17 Member: 9006Members, Constellation
Join Date: 2002-11-17 Member: 9006Members, Constellation
<div align="center"><b>EDIT - 12/06/06</b></div>
As you all should know the NS competitive scene has played "seasons" containing playoffs and championship games. I wrote this up last night in regards to a possible way to actually get the NS competitive community grow although most people say, "don't try, the game was dead seasons ago", well TFC was dead years ago, but it's still alive and kicking with 2 leagues. As unique as NS is and how much the core of the competitive community cares about the game it could easily be brought back. The only thing that must change would need to be simple help in getting more players interested. So heres my write up.
---
Lets say this, play offs were removed from NS and in place of it would be a system which constitutes constant play (excluding holiday weeks to be mentioned and listed), how it works is you would have 1 team for each division who would hold the title, as teams battled they would work up in a constant chain to fight in a "Title Shot" match for the winner to go to the "Title Match" and square off to take the match
Proposal: The way the TFC competitive leagues work is simple and goes like this. Basically they have divisions just as we do but they call them different names, in example, Bronze, Silver, Gold, and in their other league its, 3a, 2a, 1a, which is equal to our Open, Veteran.. and if we had one Intermediate would be in between you would assume. The main reason I think the NS community should AIM for something of TFC's competitive scene is because of the way they reward their division champions. In an effort to eliminate off season and even down time for teams who don't make the play offs which is results in down time is to adapt the way TFC has their "Title Shots" and "Title Matches". I will explain to you how this works.
Basically lets set up standings:
Veteran Division:
BiG (5-0-0)
Sphere (4-0-0)
SSJ (4-0-0)
VEX (4-2-0)
Xensity (4-1-1)
Hydra (2-0-0)
Reflect (2-3-1)
HM (1-3-1)
TNS (1-5-1)
Prevert (1-4-0)
Beer (0-3-0)
EK (0-2-0)
Now heres how it would break down(Note I did combine the Open and Veteran divisions):
Current Title Holder: BiG
TITLE MATCH:
BiG vs. Sphere
Sphere WINS
TITLE SHOT:
SSJ vs. VEX
VEX WINS
MATCH UPS:
Xensity vs. Hydra
Xensity WINS
Reflect vs. HM
Reflect WINS
TNS vs. Prevert
Prevert WINS
Beer vs. EK
Beer WINS
Sphere won and takes the title.
As you could assume all the winning teams would play each other until they lost or got to the Title Shot then finally to the Title Match. The losing teams would also keeps playing as well to build up their wins so that they could keep rotating to end up in the Title Shot and eventually the Title Match. This making the whole point of an on going cycle of game play.
This may discourage you cause you may have always like being "Season Champs" but if done with care their could easily be things added to this system such as "Record Books" with things such as "Longest Title Held."
Although to touch base with one more thing I definitely think that their should be a list of Holidays in which a certain week is taken off and not played.
Finally one thing that would have to be enforced is a certain day and time that ALL matches must be played, in example Monday, 9:00PM EST, 6:00PM PST. Another possible idea to be added to this if you might say the Title Matches wont be exciting since they're every week, what if an old historic team comes back and upset a team whos held the title for months and months on end, another idea is to play all matches including Title Shots on Monday 9PM EST, 6PM PST, then the Title Match on Tuesday, 9PM EST, 6PM PST(kind of like Monday Night Football) to showcase the 2 top teams and to point out who the Title Shot winner will have to face(Credit to Makaveli for helping me brainstorm this up final idea to idolize the Title Match as well as his thoughts and ideas).
<div align="center"><b>EDIT:</b>
<!--quoteo(post=1582513:date=Nov 30 2006, 07:56 PM:name=CEldin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(CEldin @ Nov 30 2006, 07:56 PM) [snapback]1582513[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
I actually really like this idea, but there is one reservation I have.
What would you do about inactive/new/reformed teams? The seasons system gives an opportunity for clans to reconstitute themselves inbetween seasons, as well as for dead teams to be eliminated. It's like a clean slate.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--></div>
Excellent point which I didn't add in. All the new teams will go through a "Screening" phase for a few weeks of play than after they have been confirmed to be an actual team and are alive and good to go they will be placed in there division based by skill. Open, Intermediate, Veteran, etc.
<div align="center"><b>EDIT:</b>
<!--QuoteBegin-"Sand|V|aN"+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE("Sand|V|aN")</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Interesting idea. I get the feeling that the same 2 or 3 teams will end up playing for the title over and over again(Not that that is a change from what is going on now anyway). I have two questions though.
1) How will ties be handled in terms of deciding who gets a shot at the title?
2) If you lose a title match does your record go to 0-0-0?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--></div>
Going a bit further on what Adj said, your record doesn't reset like he said it will remain so if you held the title twice and only lost it twice through out your ANSL(in example) career you would be 24-2.
As far as ties go that would have to be determined by league admins and I have also thought of a few ways to determine it myself. As we all know getting rid of ties in NS has been a hassle but these 3 ways could resolve possibly it.
1) Go by res count totaled for each round, marine and alien. Highest team res total takes win 2-1.
2) Play until there is a decisive winner 2-0.
3) A final way is to possibly go by total kills combined from each round. Highest team kill total wins 2-1.
4) Fastest win. Basically adding your teams marine and alien sides together and whatever team has the lowest time takes the win 2-1(this seems like the best way IMO).
Any other ideas on how to break ties please post them, I was also thinking of a way to use ties and then mark wins as 2 points and ties as 1 point and some how re-work that but I can't think of how it would get you to a title match. I would assume just using the 4 options above to decide a winner.
<div align="center"><b>EDIT:</b>
<!--QuoteBegin-"b1"+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE("b1")</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->4) Fastest win. Basically adding your teams marine and alien sides together and whatever team has the lowest time takes the win 2-1(this seems like the best way IMO).
I think this might not be the best way to go, since you'll have to keep alot of track with screenshots for everything and its quite a hassle. Also it might lead to people wanting to do shotgun rushes just to win fast in case they lose alien or whatever to a good team.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--></div>
A 5th idea could be to have a tie-breaker map and only play it once and have screenshots on this map only. So basicly you would take who has the highest score in case of a 2-2 tie on this tie-breaker map. (map picked by admin, most balanced preferably).
With that said I've thought up of something new. In order for wins to mean something even more than getting your chance at the Title and holding the Title, make the "Home" team advantage mean something as well. Here is how the tie breaker could work very simply.
5) The home team picks what side they want to play on, alien or marine, then they play on either a predetermined "tie breaker" map just like every week there is map chosen to play and then you would add a tie breaker map. The only catch is that the first round is win or lose so if its 1-1 tied, the first round is win or go home to make a 2-1 victory.
5a) On the other hand to make it even more important to have the "Home" team advantage, let them choose the side. alien or marine, as well as the map, if this seems a little bit too much of an advantage a way of resolving that is each week to have 3 maps listen as choices for tie breaking maps, IN EXAMPLE: This weeks map is Tanith, this weeks tie breaker maps are, Tanith, Metal, and Origin. If you think that the Home team being able to choose the side and the map is still of an advantage too much then it would be logical to just have one predetermined tie breaker map each week still allowing the Home team to choose the side they want to play.
<div align="center"><b>EDIT:</b>
<!--QuoteBegin-"b1"+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE("b1")</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->or you let the "home" team pick map and the "away" team pick side, to make it more even, or the other way around.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--></div>
<div align="center"><b>EDIT:</b>
<!--QuoteBegin-"grahf"+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE("grahf")</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If it's the title shot then it should be like the playoffs, keep playing untill someone 2-0s. Any other method is faulty in the game, one of the problems with ns.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--></div>
I like that idea as well, having just the "Title Shot" and "Title Matches" playing until there is a definite 2-0 victory but all of the other matches use the 5th method of tie breaking rules. I think that would work great actually.
<b>FINAL EDIT:</b>
This is probably my Final Edit. I think it's very obvious that this system is wanted and has support. I think its also quite obvious the best way to solve tie breakers is to have the Home Team either pick a Side, Alien or Marine, OR, pick a map. Depending on what they pick the Away Team would be able to choose just the opposite, so if the Home Team chooses the marine, the Away Team would be smart enough to choose a map that better suits Aliens. Like we have just said the only matches who do not receive these tie breaker 1 round wins rules are the Title Shots and Title Matches.
I hope that I have helped by keeping this thread up to date and keep all of the communities ides in line and in order. Everyones help is just a little piece of how we can make things better. I hope this goes through and NS will prosper on the verge of new NS2 news bringing old players back and new players in and not to mention keeping them here. Thanks for everyones input and time :wink: .
<div align="center">
<b>Any questions? Feedback?
This thread can also be seen at
<a href="http://ansl.us/forums/viewtopic.php?t=152" target="_blank">http://ansl.us/forums/viewtopic.php?t=152</a></b></div>
As you all should know the NS competitive scene has played "seasons" containing playoffs and championship games. I wrote this up last night in regards to a possible way to actually get the NS competitive community grow although most people say, "don't try, the game was dead seasons ago", well TFC was dead years ago, but it's still alive and kicking with 2 leagues. As unique as NS is and how much the core of the competitive community cares about the game it could easily be brought back. The only thing that must change would need to be simple help in getting more players interested. So heres my write up.
---
Lets say this, play offs were removed from NS and in place of it would be a system which constitutes constant play (excluding holiday weeks to be mentioned and listed), how it works is you would have 1 team for each division who would hold the title, as teams battled they would work up in a constant chain to fight in a "Title Shot" match for the winner to go to the "Title Match" and square off to take the match
Proposal: The way the TFC competitive leagues work is simple and goes like this. Basically they have divisions just as we do but they call them different names, in example, Bronze, Silver, Gold, and in their other league its, 3a, 2a, 1a, which is equal to our Open, Veteran.. and if we had one Intermediate would be in between you would assume. The main reason I think the NS community should AIM for something of TFC's competitive scene is because of the way they reward their division champions. In an effort to eliminate off season and even down time for teams who don't make the play offs which is results in down time is to adapt the way TFC has their "Title Shots" and "Title Matches". I will explain to you how this works.
Basically lets set up standings:
Veteran Division:
BiG (5-0-0)
Sphere (4-0-0)
SSJ (4-0-0)
VEX (4-2-0)
Xensity (4-1-1)
Hydra (2-0-0)
Reflect (2-3-1)
HM (1-3-1)
TNS (1-5-1)
Prevert (1-4-0)
Beer (0-3-0)
EK (0-2-0)
Now heres how it would break down(Note I did combine the Open and Veteran divisions):
Current Title Holder: BiG
TITLE MATCH:
BiG vs. Sphere
Sphere WINS
TITLE SHOT:
SSJ vs. VEX
VEX WINS
MATCH UPS:
Xensity vs. Hydra
Xensity WINS
Reflect vs. HM
Reflect WINS
TNS vs. Prevert
Prevert WINS
Beer vs. EK
Beer WINS
Sphere won and takes the title.
As you could assume all the winning teams would play each other until they lost or got to the Title Shot then finally to the Title Match. The losing teams would also keeps playing as well to build up their wins so that they could keep rotating to end up in the Title Shot and eventually the Title Match. This making the whole point of an on going cycle of game play.
This may discourage you cause you may have always like being "Season Champs" but if done with care their could easily be things added to this system such as "Record Books" with things such as "Longest Title Held."
Although to touch base with one more thing I definitely think that their should be a list of Holidays in which a certain week is taken off and not played.
Finally one thing that would have to be enforced is a certain day and time that ALL matches must be played, in example Monday, 9:00PM EST, 6:00PM PST. Another possible idea to be added to this if you might say the Title Matches wont be exciting since they're every week, what if an old historic team comes back and upset a team whos held the title for months and months on end, another idea is to play all matches including Title Shots on Monday 9PM EST, 6PM PST, then the Title Match on Tuesday, 9PM EST, 6PM PST(kind of like Monday Night Football) to showcase the 2 top teams and to point out who the Title Shot winner will have to face(Credit to Makaveli for helping me brainstorm this up final idea to idolize the Title Match as well as his thoughts and ideas).
<div align="center"><b>EDIT:</b>
<!--quoteo(post=1582513:date=Nov 30 2006, 07:56 PM:name=CEldin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(CEldin @ Nov 30 2006, 07:56 PM) [snapback]1582513[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
I actually really like this idea, but there is one reservation I have.
What would you do about inactive/new/reformed teams? The seasons system gives an opportunity for clans to reconstitute themselves inbetween seasons, as well as for dead teams to be eliminated. It's like a clean slate.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--></div>
Excellent point which I didn't add in. All the new teams will go through a "Screening" phase for a few weeks of play than after they have been confirmed to be an actual team and are alive and good to go they will be placed in there division based by skill. Open, Intermediate, Veteran, etc.
<div align="center"><b>EDIT:</b>
<!--QuoteBegin-"Sand|V|aN"+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE("Sand|V|aN")</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Interesting idea. I get the feeling that the same 2 or 3 teams will end up playing for the title over and over again(Not that that is a change from what is going on now anyway). I have two questions though.
1) How will ties be handled in terms of deciding who gets a shot at the title?
2) If you lose a title match does your record go to 0-0-0?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--></div>
Going a bit further on what Adj said, your record doesn't reset like he said it will remain so if you held the title twice and only lost it twice through out your ANSL(in example) career you would be 24-2.
As far as ties go that would have to be determined by league admins and I have also thought of a few ways to determine it myself. As we all know getting rid of ties in NS has been a hassle but these 3 ways could resolve possibly it.
1) Go by res count totaled for each round, marine and alien. Highest team res total takes win 2-1.
2) Play until there is a decisive winner 2-0.
3) A final way is to possibly go by total kills combined from each round. Highest team kill total wins 2-1.
4) Fastest win. Basically adding your teams marine and alien sides together and whatever team has the lowest time takes the win 2-1(this seems like the best way IMO).
Any other ideas on how to break ties please post them, I was also thinking of a way to use ties and then mark wins as 2 points and ties as 1 point and some how re-work that but I can't think of how it would get you to a title match. I would assume just using the 4 options above to decide a winner.
<div align="center"><b>EDIT:</b>
<!--QuoteBegin-"b1"+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE("b1")</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->4) Fastest win. Basically adding your teams marine and alien sides together and whatever team has the lowest time takes the win 2-1(this seems like the best way IMO).
I think this might not be the best way to go, since you'll have to keep alot of track with screenshots for everything and its quite a hassle. Also it might lead to people wanting to do shotgun rushes just to win fast in case they lose alien or whatever to a good team.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--></div>
A 5th idea could be to have a tie-breaker map and only play it once and have screenshots on this map only. So basicly you would take who has the highest score in case of a 2-2 tie on this tie-breaker map. (map picked by admin, most balanced preferably).
With that said I've thought up of something new. In order for wins to mean something even more than getting your chance at the Title and holding the Title, make the "Home" team advantage mean something as well. Here is how the tie breaker could work very simply.
5) The home team picks what side they want to play on, alien or marine, then they play on either a predetermined "tie breaker" map just like every week there is map chosen to play and then you would add a tie breaker map. The only catch is that the first round is win or lose so if its 1-1 tied, the first round is win or go home to make a 2-1 victory.
5a) On the other hand to make it even more important to have the "Home" team advantage, let them choose the side. alien or marine, as well as the map, if this seems a little bit too much of an advantage a way of resolving that is each week to have 3 maps listen as choices for tie breaking maps, IN EXAMPLE: This weeks map is Tanith, this weeks tie breaker maps are, Tanith, Metal, and Origin. If you think that the Home team being able to choose the side and the map is still of an advantage too much then it would be logical to just have one predetermined tie breaker map each week still allowing the Home team to choose the side they want to play.
<div align="center"><b>EDIT:</b>
<!--QuoteBegin-"b1"+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE("b1")</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->or you let the "home" team pick map and the "away" team pick side, to make it more even, or the other way around.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--></div>
<div align="center"><b>EDIT:</b>
<!--QuoteBegin-"grahf"+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE("grahf")</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If it's the title shot then it should be like the playoffs, keep playing untill someone 2-0s. Any other method is faulty in the game, one of the problems with ns.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--></div>
I like that idea as well, having just the "Title Shot" and "Title Matches" playing until there is a definite 2-0 victory but all of the other matches use the 5th method of tie breaking rules. I think that would work great actually.
<b>FINAL EDIT:</b>
This is probably my Final Edit. I think it's very obvious that this system is wanted and has support. I think its also quite obvious the best way to solve tie breakers is to have the Home Team either pick a Side, Alien or Marine, OR, pick a map. Depending on what they pick the Away Team would be able to choose just the opposite, so if the Home Team chooses the marine, the Away Team would be smart enough to choose a map that better suits Aliens. Like we have just said the only matches who do not receive these tie breaker 1 round wins rules are the Title Shots and Title Matches.
I hope that I have helped by keeping this thread up to date and keep all of the communities ides in line and in order. Everyones help is just a little piece of how we can make things better. I hope this goes through and NS will prosper on the verge of new NS2 news bringing old players back and new players in and not to mention keeping them here. Thanks for everyones input and time :wink: .
<div align="center">
<b>Any questions? Feedback?
This thread can also be seen at
<a href="http://ansl.us/forums/viewtopic.php?t=152" target="_blank">http://ansl.us/forums/viewtopic.php?t=152</a></b></div>
Comments
nm that looks like i didnt read it through properly.
What would you do about inactive/new/reformed teams? The seasons system gives an opportunity for clans to reconstitute themselves inbetween seasons, as well as for dead teams to be eliminated. It's like a clean slate.
<!--quoteo(post=1582513:date=Nov 30 2006, 07:56 PM:name=CEldin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(CEldin @ Nov 30 2006, 07:56 PM) [snapback]1582513[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
I actually really like this idea, but there is one reservation I have.
What would you do about inactive/new/reformed teams? The seasons system gives an opportunity for clans to reconstitute themselves inbetween seasons, as well as for dead teams to be eliminated. It's like a clean slate.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Excellent point which I didn't add in. All the new teams will go through a "Screening" phase for a few weeks of play than after they have been confirmed to be an actual team and are alive and good to go they will be placed in there division based by skill. Open, Intermediate, Veteran, etc.
Then again, I might just be holding on to old grudges against the CB system. I wouldn't mind seeing you try to pull this off in the American comp. community, to see if it can work out. This is all irrelevant though. Talk is cheap -- actually taking the idea from concept to execution is ridiculously difficult for most people, it seems (prove me wrong please).
Edit: Some clarifications and spellering.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->(b1)4) Fastest win. Basically adding your teams marine and alien sides together and whatever team has the lowest time takes the win 2-1(this seems like the best way IMO).
I think this might not be the best way to go, since you'll have to keep alot of track with screenshots for everything and its quite a hassle. Also it might lead to people wanting to do shotgun rushes just to win fast in case they lose alien or whatever to a good team.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--></div>
A 5th idea could be to have a tie-breaker map and only play it once and have screenshots on this map only. So basicly you would take who has the highest score in case of a 2-2 tie on this tie-breaker map. (map picked by admin, most balanced preferably).
With that said I've thought up of something new. In order for wins to mean something even more than getting your chance at the Title and holding the Title, make the "Home" team advantage mean something as well. Here is how the tie breaker could work very simply.
5) The home team picks what side they want to play on, alien or marine, then they play on either a predetermined "tie breaker" map just like every week there is map chosen to play and then you would add a tie breaker map. The only catch is that the first round is win or lose so if its 1-1 tied, the first round is win or go home to make a 2-1 victory.
5a) On the other hand to make it even more important to have the "Home" team advantage, let them choose the side. alien or marine, as well as the map, if this seems a little bit too much of an advantage a way of resolving that is each week to have 3 maps listen as choices for tie breaking maps, IN EXAMPLE: This weeks map is Tanith, this weeks tie breaker maps are, Tanith, Metal, and Origin. If you think that the Home team being able to choose the side and the map is still of an advantage too much then it would be logical to just have one predetermined tie breaker map each week still allowing the Home team to choose the side they want to play.
<div align="center"><b>EDIT:</b>
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->(b1)or you let the "home" team pick map and the "away" team pick side, to make it more even, or the other way around.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--></div>
Post has been edited with new information on the tie breaking system and a possible resolution.
This is probably my Final Edit. I think it's very obvious that this system is wanted and has support. I think its also quite obvious the best way to solve tie breakers is to have the Home Team either pick a Side, Alien or Marine, OR, pick a map. Depending on what they pick the Away Team would be able to choose just the opposite, so if the Home Team chooses the marine, the Away Team would be smart enough to choose a map that better suits Aliens. Like we have just said the only matches who do not receive these tie breaker 1 round wins rules are the Title Shots and Title Matches.
I hope that I have helped by keeping this thread up to date and keep all of the communities ides in line and in order. Everyones help is just a little piece of how we can make things better. I hope this goes through and NS will prosper on the verge of new NS2 news bringing old players back and new players in and not to mention keeping them here. Thanks for everyones input and time :wink: .