Adding "spice" To Your Map Level

tommy14 · November 2002

<div class="IPBDescription">some ideas for "gingerbreading"</div> some ideas to add variety, spice, and "gingerbread" to your NS maps.

1. lightswitches (func buttons) in rooms. almost none of the offical maps have these for some reason. it would give a reason for alien hivesight, and for human flashlights. good for ambushes.

2. pump switches & liquid action. func water works like a sliding door, and water can be raised and lowered. imagine eclipse's sewer & sewer vestibule if there was a valve (rotating button) or two to raise or lower the water level. it could even be an auto cycle without a switch/button, or with a switch that stops and starts the autocycle.

3. maintainance room. most maps have them, yet there is nothing to do. no welding station to repair human armor. no fuse box to weld to enable or disable systemwide events, like room light switches or water pumps!
or it could be in good condition waiting for aliens to break it by electrocution or long range fire.... another thing, maintainance rooms & slimy sewers should have slick grease spots (func friction) here and there.

4. these stations & ships are for humans, yet where are the brigs, the security offices? a security station could become another objective to fight for if it had a few working cameras (trigger multiple in room targetting a trigger camera in a corridor targeting info target in corridor) overseeing various public corridors. it would give players something else to do. if they ever figure out how, a some human ammo could also be stored there. of course, maintainance would control power to the cameras - a master or multisource perhaps?

5. and also humans get sick, injured. where are the infirmarys, the first aid station? yeah, human commanders can drop health, and kharaa defense structures - but having a HL style room where anyone can get limited health once in a while would also be refreshing "realism" bonus to a level. a trigger hurt with a negtive value HEALS, and the reset time can give it time to "recharge".

6. eclipse and other maps have "control rooms" - but what do they control? squat.
imagine having the abiltiy to change doors from always open to switchable open/closed - and vise versa. light switch controls. and of course it would only work if the maintainance room allowed it.....puzzles are GOOD additions to the main goals of the game.

7. vents. they don't just have to be only breakable and weldable anymore.
a. there is this wunnerful entity trigger push. now have an eviormental control panel with a couple buttons. someone goes in and flips the switch for FLUSH vent shaft A, and the PUSH goes on for 1 min, shoving anything in that vent out - at high speed. great fun!
oops, there was an alien in that vent on the map BAST? flushed out to fall to the ground in the docking bay. tsk tsk!

b. or maybe it is time to sterilize the fungus in that vent - use a trigger HURT for 20-40 damage....somebodys toesies got burnt by the electric shock?

8. the Rustmill effect for a control panel would also be great, even without the teleport. see tutorial at:<a href='http://www.valve-erc.com/resources/?page=tut_rustmill' target='_blank'>http://www.valve-erc.com/resources/?page=tut_rustmill</a>

9. func pushable stuff, tables, chairs, crates - so that humans can get into some vents also can give interest to a map.

10. you are in space, in a space craft. probably artificial gravity - but what if it breaks down in spots? (trigger gravity) you could have lower grav - and higher grav areas.

for more info on some of these entitys that can add to your maps, visit:
<a href='http://www.valve-erc.com/entities/?game=0001' target='_blank'>Valve ERC entity list</a>

StaiN · November 2002

I like if all those things where in a map, I would play it 24/7

But I would think it would take a while to make a map like that <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'>

bah..

If anyone is gonna make one, Ill be pleased to play it <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'>

Sirus · November 2002

indeed, that would much fun!

Carbon14 · November 2002

I think that the main reason that stuff like this was not included in many maps is, because of the size of them, the map entity limits were reached, and there was simply no room for stuff like this.

Aside from that, I think I might try to add every one of these into my map, just for the sake of it <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'>

chubbysteve · November 2002

Sounds good. Frankly I think of of the rotating doors used in ns maps are brilliant, but these things... have potential.

humb1ed · November 2002

That idea of a varying level of water in a hive sounds extremely good to me and if I can get it to work I will include something like this in one of the hives to make it harder for marines to secure, since the commander can only put down buildings when the "tide" is low, say only every 30 secs or so, making the marines stick around a while giving the aliens a chance to counter in that period of time.

Cyborgguineapig · November 2002

Omg did anyone else laugh when they saw the slippery surfaces suggestion. A new way for marines to die. They jump down from a higher level onto a greasy slab of metal and flip onto their head killing them. You see the dreaded grease icon next to your name indicating that grease has and grime has killed you. LMAO!

Also I'm still waiting for someone too come up with a water level where many of the corridors are filled with water or something. Those hive water would be cool in this type of level.

Also make the equivalent o the marine weldables by making some points in a map so that gorges can turn on something special that will fill an area up with poisinous liquids that harm marines. This way marines have to work another way around it like aliens have to with welded vents.

CrouchingHamster · November 2002

Some nice ideas there. It's quite refreshing to see map suggestions that
A) would fit with the NS gameplay , and
B) are actually possible within the HL engine..

/me takes notes, rubs chin and goes "hmmmmm"

WarpZone · November 2002

Hmmm... well, maybe some of these suggestions would be doable in NS, but some things, like the slippery floors, were great for HL but would totally suck for NS because it would disrupt players and become annoying. It's like adding "traps" in your level such as pillars in the ceiling that crush you or hidden lasers that shoot out from the walls. Sure, they're possible to do, but that doesn't mean you should put them in your map because most players would find them annoying.

BiTMAP · November 2002

yeah Exactly, the water thing would be extreamly annoying for BOTH teams, specialy in a hive, this would make it hard for aliens to defend, as well as for humans to take over... thus ruining the balance of the map.

humb1ed · November 2002

Aliens can build structures underwater though, so it wouldn't be a problem for them.

BiTMAP · November 2002

well that still doesn't allow the humans to have a chance.

humb1ed · November 2002

It wouldn't "not allow the humans to have a chance" because they can still build every 30 secs for 30 secs. All it does then is delay them 30 secs and is a cool feature. This isn't going to throw off the balance of a map if the map is designed with this in mind. You could counteract this anti-marine measure by making it closer to the marine base or making it more marine friendly outside of the hive.

bicball · November 2002

If you were to flood the hives, then wouldn’t the alien’s spawn be underwater? As far as I know, that doesn't work, so that may cause a big problem, but flooding passageways would be cool. Flushing vents would be good, because a lot of skulks or gorgs hang out in them waiting for Marines to pass, or there are aliens evolving in them. Making an armory with like two HMGs, two shotguns, one grenade launcher, and five welders would be cool, because it would make it more realistic, but they will only have the weapons for a short time. An infirmary with health in it would be great, especially if aliens could use the health.

As for control rooms, having a room much like the one in Halo, with some computers, two chairs, and a ladder to go up where you can actually steer it would be cool. Especially if the control chair is inside of a glass bubble where you can see everything.

Many of the ideas sound good, and would make the maps more interactive which is always a good thing to have in a map, especially a NS map.

~Bic-B@ll

BiTMAP · November 2002

I don't think people should be able to in ANY way have any advantage on there enemy with the map, It needs to be good skill that wins, not being the first one to flood the passage way. though something more along the lines of a passage is already slightly flooded and opening the door allows the water out and into another room (or water moving between 2 rooms) could be more acceptible if done right (and if the mapper doesn't suck)

Bic I've known you as a mapper for a while but I still don't agree wit what you've said, I just feel that ns maps should be realistic, but not allowing you to one up the other.... although i'll see what i can do without making everything wonky.

btw nice ta see ya <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

[edited]

bicball · November 2002

I don't see how what I said would be unrealistic... Ships having armorys is true, medical bays is true, being able to steer a ship is crucial etc. The only thing wiht making the glass bubble is that you would have to map the whole ships exterior which would probably have high r_speeds.

BiTMAP · November 2002

yes but those things bypass the gameplay, marines not having to actualy pay for the weapons, or health just make camping spots... though they may actualy work better in a marine vs pirate situtation...

bicball · November 2002

That's why there are only a limited ammount.

humb1ed · November 2002

Back to the water rising in the hive, I just figured out how this could just be a cool effect not benefitting either team...

Hive entities have "Target on death" and "Target on spawn" fields, you could just set the water to rise when the hive comes up and lower when the hive dies. Also, I wasn't really talking about flooding an entire hive room, just a relatively shallow amount of water.

Cadaver · November 2002

Most of those suggestions sound far too gimmicky for my liking. I have to disagree with the original assertion that "puzzles are good" - in a single-player experience, maybe, but in a multiplayer game, a map should stand or fall by its layout, not by how many gimmicky traps and puzzles it has. Not to mention that certain suggestions like the health room would bypass the intended gameplay mechanics; equally, having operable cameras would negate the use of the scanner sweep.

Personally, I'd advise mappers to use entities in interesting ways to create ambience and special effects, by all means, but please don't use too many entity effects that have direct (negative) consequences on the way the map is played.

KungFuSquirrel · November 2002

Also, if you remember back to the CPU optimization hell, most of the problem was directly related to the number of entities in a map. The more entities, the worse the performance.

Fieari · November 2002

Flooding a hive would be unreasonable, in my estimation... flooding a chokepoint wouldn't be much better. But what about flooding just a room, or a hallway, or an area? Somewhere that isn't an intersection, and there's another way to get to where that room/hall leads on both ends.

WarpZone · November 2002

One time I was playing ns_caged, and suddenly this alarm went off in the marine spawn. Just this loud, unplacable siren. Then the Onos started coming. =) I think the mapper set it up so that when all 3 hives get built, the alarm goes off. I don't know, because I usually play as alien, butif that's what it was, I think it's a hella cool idea. It's sort of a warning, but it doesn't really help any because by the time it goes off, it's already too late and it just makes the marines squirm. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'>

guagle · November 2002

What about dangerous areas in a map? It seems likely that the stations/ships/labs taken over by Kharaa would start to break down after a while, and many places would be dangerous with fumes/electric arcs/radioactive leakages/torn walkways/dangling machinery/etc... Implementing these in maps would had to the atmosphere, though there shouldn't be too many to make the map unplayable.

Just an idea, since most maps look maybe too neat and clean.

DjArcas · November 2002

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (WarpZone @ Nov 24 2002, 02:22 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>One time I was playing ns_caged, and suddenly this alarm went off in the marine spawn. Just this loud, unplacable siren. Then the Onos started coming. =) I think the mapper set it up so that when all 3 hives get built, the alarm goes off.</td></tr></table>
It's a marine ability. Sod all commanders ever use it tho.

Black_Dog · November 2002

I think all these are good ideas...especially the general switch system that also i have dreamt about if making a map. KFS remembered us the fact on the number of ents....so i think that in a medium-small sized map we can add these things, or for eg add 1-2 features in a big map, i really like the flushing idea,never thought about that idea

CrouchingHamster · November 2002

My point was not so much "Wow lets do All these ideas! All at once!!", so much as..

" wow, these are reasonable ideas, that, handled well, might be feasible within the HL engine...might be a nice touch on an already good and well constructed map..?"

As opposed to .."Well meaning posts that are totally impossible within HL engine.."

See what I mean?

BiTMAP · November 2002

yes

tommy14 · November 2002

my, more respose than i expected.

a few of you missunderstood the concept. these ideas are not meant to take over a map, just minor additions here and there.

gingerbread, or spice are minor things added to "flavor" a level, not as the main course. it is like welding spots or breaking walls - not NEEDED for game play, should not take it over - but it add complexity, variation, interest to a level of an already great game.

and no map appeals to everyone, if you are a minimalist, that is fine. it is just that almost all the official maps i have see are so minimalsit already.....

Adding "spice" To Your Map Level

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