moultanoCreator of ns_shiva.Join Date: 2002-12-14Member: 10806Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
edited November 2006
<!--quoteo(post=1579026:date=Nov 20 2006, 11:41 AM:name=Cxwf)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Cxwf @ Nov 20 2006, 11:41 AM) [snapback]1579026[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> You have demonstrated that the high-level execs at Fox already have opinions about the news. This might be troubling, if it wasn't already par for the course at every major news organization we have. Fox just stands out because their execs have <i>different</i> opinions than the execs at most of the other news organizations. ...
I am inclined to agree with you. But Fox News is hardly the only offender when it comes to disguising their agenda. Nor do they even do a very good job of disguising it--most people already assume that Fox is "the conservative news station", just as many assume that CBS is liberal, even though they vehemently deny that as well. It would be nice if Fox came out and admitted they were conservative, on the same day CBS and the like gave press releases admitting they were liberal. You know as well as I how likely THAT is to happen. It does, yes. I just don't see any easy ways to solve the problem. If you have a suggestion, I'd be glad to hear it. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> What matters here is intent. We have here a memo that shows that Fox deliberately <i>intends</i> to distort the news. There certainly may be bias at CBS, but I haven't seen any reason to believe so far that their intentions aren't honest.
Let me put it like this. A news organization that tries to present honest news and fails is a crappy news station. A news organization that deliberately slants the news is an <i>evil</i> news station.
<!--quoteo(post=1579085:date=Nov 20 2006, 12:27 PM:name=moultano)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(moultano @ Nov 20 2006, 12:27 PM) [snapback]1579085[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> What matters here is intent. We have here a memo that shows that Fox deliberately <i>intends</i> to distort the news.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wrong. You have not shown that at all. There is nothing in that memo that suggests any attempt to "distort" anything. Rather, there is a suggestion to look for a particular story that their instincts suggest is likely to appear soon, and their experience suggests would be a valuable story. Their instincts could be wrong, I suppose, but it doesn't become distortion until the story doesn't happen, and then they report it anyway. You know, like CBS does. All the time.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> There certainly may be bias at CBS, but I haven't seen any reason to believe so far that their intentions aren't honest.
Let me put it like this. A news organization that tries to present honest news and fails is a crappy news station. A news organization that deliberately slants the news is an <i>evil</i> news station. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ah, So the rule is, that if a station is so thoroughly biased that they have convinced themselves of their own lies, that makes them ethically superior?
By extrapolation, Fox reporters are clever enough to hide the truth, and CBS reporters are too stupid to notice they aren't reporting the truth, right? Is that what you are saying?
Personally, I suspect both of them really believe most of their own propaganda. Self-delusion is surprisingly easy, with a little practice. Even this memo, for example, is much more easily explained by assuming the Fox Execs really <i>believe</i> this stuff, then by assuming they just want to convince others of something they "know" is really a lie.
That's not the liberal bias I meant. The one I talked about was the one where it was claimed that the entire media (except for a few stalwart heroes) had a liberal bias and was just badmouthing the republicans all the time while casting the democrats as the saviours of the nation. THAT was discredited.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->There certainly may be bias at CBS, but I haven't seen any reason to believe so far that their intentions aren't honest. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Comments
You have demonstrated that the high-level execs at Fox already have opinions about the news.
This might be troubling, if it wasn't already par for the course at every major news organization we have. Fox just stands out because their execs have <i>different</i> opinions than the execs at most of the other news organizations.
...
I am inclined to agree with you. But Fox News is hardly the only offender when it comes to disguising their agenda. Nor do they even do a very good job of disguising it--most people already assume that Fox is "the conservative news station", just as many assume that CBS is liberal, even though they vehemently deny that as well. It would be nice if Fox came out and admitted they were conservative, on the same day CBS and the like gave press releases admitting they were liberal. You know as well as I how likely THAT is to happen.
It does, yes. I just don't see any easy ways to solve the problem. If you have a suggestion, I'd be glad to hear it.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What matters here is intent. We have here a memo that shows that Fox deliberately <i>intends</i> to distort the news. There certainly may be bias at CBS, but I haven't seen any reason to believe so far that their intentions aren't honest.
Let me put it like this. A news organization that tries to present honest news and fails is a crappy news station. A news organization that deliberately slants the news is an <i>evil</i> news station.
What matters here is intent. We have here a memo that shows that Fox deliberately <i>intends</i> to distort the news.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wrong. You have not shown that at all. There is nothing in that memo that suggests any attempt to "distort" anything. Rather, there is a suggestion to look for a particular story that their instincts suggest is likely to appear soon, and their experience suggests would be a valuable story. Their instincts could be wrong, I suppose, but it doesn't become distortion until the story doesn't happen, and then they report it anyway. You know, like CBS does. All the time.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> There certainly may be bias at CBS, but I haven't seen any reason to believe so far that their intentions aren't honest.
Let me put it like this. A news organization that tries to present honest news and fails is a crappy news station. A news organization that deliberately slants the news is an <i>evil</i> news station.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ah, So the rule is, that if a station is so thoroughly biased that they have convinced themselves of their own lies, that makes them ethically superior?
By extrapolation, Fox reporters are clever enough to hide the truth, and CBS reporters are too stupid to notice they aren't reporting the truth, right? Is that what you are saying?
Personally, I suspect both of them really believe most of their own propaganda. Self-delusion is surprisingly easy, with a little practice. Even this memo, for example, is much more easily explained by assuming the Fox Execs really <i>believe</i> this stuff, then by assuming they just want to convince others of something they "know" is really a lie.
Dan Rather and the Forged Documents.