Ok, since this thread seems pretty dead anyway, lets see if I can put this to rest: MrMakaveli, it isn't that I don't want to take your advice, its just that your advice is nothing new to me. I've tried lots and lots of different things trying to improve my ability. But it turns out that dog just won't hunt. I've tried sensitivity settings between 3 and 9, I believe I used 5 and 6 most often.
Heres the funny thing: Thinking back on it, I was actually a pretty decent NS player in 1.04. I specifically remember at least 5 fade knife kills, which weren't exactly rare, but still. I remember taking part in group attacks and getting kills without dying. Hell, I even remember being able to play higher lifeforms without feeling like I was wasting res. Thinking about it some more, I'm leaning towards the conclusion that the game has made a shift from being tactical on the individual level, to being FPS skill based on the individual level, and thus my horrible FPS skills are exposed.
You know, NS as it is has been worked on for over 4 or 5 years. The current version is a balanced as possible, but you know what? It will never be PERFECTLY balanced. It never has, and NEVER will be. Thus, it comes down to teamwork, working with what you have. You want a balanced game? Work with your team mates. You want rewards? Contribute to your team. What should you contribute you may ask? Killing the enemy is nice, but dropping a res-node, a structure, helping to lock down a hive or building chambers is essential for your success. Something that you the player should contribute because you're in a team. Which comes down to the reason why you're in a game based on teamwork. If you're not winning a game, it's because you or someone else has failed somewhere, as with someone said earlier in this thread. Without teamwork, you lose. It's simple as that.
Let me put it this way. If you're focusing on the answer on winning and then complain why you lost the game, it's because you haven't focused on the PROCESS of your tactics, and with process comes teamwork. Woah, process? What's that you ask? Re-read my previous paragraph again and tell me. Granted that if you can't kill the enemy for sh*t, then what do you do? Build something. Try to get that second hive up. Help the comm build the buildings, or be a Gorge and build structures. Something that will help the team. If you can't kill, then focus on capping nodes, building chambers, anything that would benefit your team, and then maybe, just maybe you will win the game. As for those others who have like 30-1, let them have it, but in the end, it wouldn't matter if you won or lost. At least you were in the process of helping out your team as much as you can. I've played games where there were a couple of Fades that had K:D ratios like that, and the Alien team still lost because of a few aliens not doing their jobs that should have benefitted their team.
Therefore, leading to my first paragraph, with teamwork. And don't argue with my point because of "this" or "that". You're just making excuses for the things you can't control. If you're just thinking of just winning games and then you complain on why the game failed on you because you didn't win, or because of this player sucked, then think again and look in the mirror.
Let's just end it there. This is getting too philosophical and political.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Granted that if you can't kill the enemy for sh*t, then what do you do? Build something. Try to get that second hive up. Help the comm build the buildings, or be a Gorge and build structures. Something that will help the team. If you can't kill, then focus on capping nodes, building chambers, anything that would benefit your team, and then maybe, just maybe you will win the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Problem with this is that while they're fine for a game or two, they get extremely boring if thats all you ever do. Plus, as I said earlier, the game has shifted such that the reasons people like me can't kill ish is because its based on FPS skills and not tactics. I don't know of anybody who was so bad 1.04 that they were as bad as I am at 3.x.
Personally, I think balance is an overratted concept. People look back at what I consider to be the games peak and think of it unbalanced, and yet it was alot more fun and the games went back and forth for hours.
The game is called "Natural-Selection" I'm sure you all know that this means survival of the fittest!
If you are not good enough to be a commander or fade, get better or choose another role, it's not that hard really. I feel the game is very well balanced despite the fact that the two teams are completely different. Now if both sides had players of equal skill there would be no problem, what you are trying to do is make everything easier or faster to learn and you just can't do that, it defeats the point.
In any game the team with better players is more likely to win it is no different in NS except that certain roles have more effect on the outcome.
Balance in NS has to be looked upon two ways. The balance on the game itself and the skills of the players.
That's why, even with the fade we have today, people die or live based on skills. Yet skills are something that have no foundation because... it's never fixed.
Anyway, back to RFK... RFK is a sloppy measure. While a need for more res could be valid, I don't believe this is the best way.
It just rewards whoever happens to land the killing blow on a victim.
While some people have said RFK rewards tactics or whatever, is that really the case? Is standing around in gas spores really rewarding tactics? Is spawn camping an alien hive really strategy, or is it no different than those point and click games? Or how about fades camping a phase gate?
Killing is a part of NS, but it should be treated as so. We don't see gorges getting res from healing other players. We don't see skulks getting res from parasiting. We don't see marines getting res from welding. Why should landing the last blow to a person be regarded as worth giving res to? If anything, the previous actions I've stated are about teamwork.
But the people who do abuse the system will fight to keep it, rather than consider the 90% of players that do not gain as much from RFK as they do.
<!--quoteo(post=1576317:date=Nov 12 2006, 03:33 PM:name=SmoodCroozn)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SmoodCroozn @ Nov 12 2006, 03:33 PM) [snapback]1576317[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Balance in NS has to be looked upon two ways. The balance on the game itself and the skills of the players.
That's why, even with the fade we have today, people die or live based on skills. Yet skills are something that have no foundation because... it's never fixed.
Anyway, back to RFK... RFK is a sloppy measure. While a need for more res could be valid, I don't believe this is the best way.
It just rewards whoever happens to land the killing blow on a victim.
While some people have said RFK rewards tactics or whatever, is that really the case? Is standing around in gas spores really rewarding tactics? Is spawn camping an alien hive really strategy, or is it no different than those point and click games? Or how about fades camping a phase gate?
Killing is a part of NS, but it should be treated as so. We don't see gorges getting res from healing other players. We don't see skulks getting res from parasiting. We don't see marines getting res from welding. Why should landing the last blow to a person be regarded as worth giving res to? If anything, the previous actions I've stated are about teamwork.
But the people who do abuse the system will fight to keep it, rather than consider the 90% of players that do not gain as much from RFK as they do. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Because getting res from killing is the least abusable and makes the most sense. Imagine the actual abuse if you get res from parasiting marines or for welding or healing your teammates.. LoL
And yes, camping the hive and the PG is strategy. If the marines actually get inside the hive and spawn camp for a good while, that'll be a huge delay for aliens. If enough aliens swarm the PG and the marines are dumb enough to phase through, then that's free res for the aliens. 1 fade will never be able to camp a PG if the whole team phases through with shotguns. And are you seriously saying that people with more skills are abusing rfk because they get more kills than others?
TheAdjHe demanded a cool forum title of some type.Join Date: 2004-05-03Member: 28436Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1575320:date=Nov 9 2006, 11:02 PM:name=Detheron)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Detheron @ Nov 9 2006, 11:02 PM) [snapback]1575320[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Please re-read what you have quoted and you will see that nowhere I mentioned the commander mode was a failure. It is an interesting, attractive, and unique feature. It does however carry too much weight on the shoulders of a single player, has a very steep learning curve, and not everyone who plays NS played an RTS game before. My issue is that limiting one commander per team effectively locks newcomers out of it, and creates situations such as people not wanting to comm for the first couple of minutes - because they don't want the responsability.
If NS2 were to have much bigger maps than NS1, having one commander per game would be even worse.
If you think that Commanders are fine the way the are, its your opinion. Mine just happens to respectfully disagree. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Locking new players out of the chair is a <b>good</b> thing. Learning to command isn't something one should be doing frequently on most public servers until you understand most of the game. It is an advanced skill that is not easily picked up because it's rather unique. It's the most difficult thing in the game to do because it requires people skills (some would say leadership, but there's more to it than that) and personal skill.
The other example you give is an example of a social problem, not game problem. It's not the games fault most people can't take responsibility for anything.
Don't post your opinion in a constructive criticism thread unless you want others to critique it. I simply did what you did and posted my thoughts. Don't take offense.
BOBDolol, I think what he's trying to say is that R4K only benefits one type of player, ever. The player who happens to land the killing blow. There is no reward for the players who contributed to the kill in other ways, like the gorge who healed the fade that made the kill, or the skulk that parasited the marine who got killed.
But whatever. SmoodCroozn, I suggest you do as I have and give up. The people who benefit most from R4K will never admit that its a problem. Ever. And Flay agrees with them, I know because we went over this entire conversation about a year ago. So you may as well join me in saying:
You guys are right. R4K is the greatest thing ever and, if anything, should be even <i>more</i> rewarding. In fact, the team with the highest K-D ratio should automatically win. Now, can we shut up about R4K and talk about something that someone on the dev team might actually some day fix?
R4K should make players more cautious in the early game so they dont start getting raped by lvl2 weapons or a fade at 3 minutes :x alas some seem to have missed that part.
The on thing that was missing from the original post is the ciriticism of trying to balance NS and CO on the same system. Its rediculous. The gameplay is completely different in almost every way possible. Forcing CO and NS to play by the same rules makes them both much less than they deserve to be.
Competitive activities require skill. If you are complaining that your lack of skill is a disadvantage to your team because of RFK, it was a disadvantage before RFK. Get better or deal with it.
I used to be absolutely horrible at all fps games, not just ns. I think it's after a long time that I finally became above-average at it. Fps skills isn't something you're born with, it takes time to develop and sometimes you have to develop it right. Skulkbait would you mind telling us what exactly is the reason why you absolutely can't improve your fps skills?
Why don't you go around asking every player that doesn't have a 50-5 score in servers and ask them why they aren't good as the pro players? Oh, you think they aren't trying hard enough?
Malkalevi, as much as I understand that this doesn't matter in clan matches, you seem to forget that 99% of NS is played in PUBS. Please, get your head out of this "1 clan game > 9999 pub games" mentality because pubbers are the only way NS can grow.
If you guys believe RFK is good for the game, that's good for you. Don't worry, my goal isn't to change anyone's view here. I believe res can and should be attained from another source and that's all I want to get out there.
I just wish Flayra and co could explain RFK for us, from his words, since after all, he calls the shots.
<!--quoteo(post=1576546:date=Nov 13 2006, 03:30 AM:name=SmoodCroozn)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SmoodCroozn @ Nov 13 2006, 03:30 AM) [snapback]1576546[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Why don't you go around asking every player that doesn't have a 50-5 score in servers and ask them why they aren't good as the pro players? Oh, you think they aren't trying hard enough? <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not that they aren't trying hard enough, but that they don't play enough. All you need is to be above average to get a high k:d ratio on a server with a lot of bad walker skulks. I used to be one of those crappy pubbers, you know. I think that's how most people started out as, so that's like telling the "pro" players to ask their past selves why they're not doing as good as that other guy.
O. M.G. What is it going to take to get you guys to shut up about R4K? THE DEVS ARE ON YOUR SIDE, R4K WILL STAY. NO POINT IN DEBATE.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Competitive activities require skill. If you are complaining that your lack of skill is a disadvantage to your team because of RFK, it was a disadvantage before RFK. Get better or deal with it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> My lack of FPS "point the mouse really fast quickly and accurately and then track a moving target while accounting for recoil" skill is a severe disadvantage. As I've said (and it has not been chalanged yet), I believe that NS 1.0x was based more on <i>tactics</i> at the unit level, which meant you improved through knowldge and quick thinking. I was much much better at this.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Skulkbait would you mind telling us what exactly is the reason why you absolutely can't improve your fps skills?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Can you juggle? I can't. And believe me I've worked at it. My brain just can't move my hands quickly and accurately enough. You could call it a physical disability, but I seriously doubt that its worse than "less than average".
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I just wish Flayra and co could explain RFK for us, from his words, since after all, he calls the shots.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I'm not flay, but when this came up last year, I believe he said something along the lines of "Players were complaining about not being able to make a difference in the outcome". I took this to mean people who are used to pwning it up in CS weren't achieving victory based solely on their ability to shoot, so they ######ed and flay gave them R4K. I'd find the post for you, but last time I checked the search function didn't work right when you filtered by poster (it filters <i>topics</i> by that poster, not <i>posts</i>).
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->R4K didnt affect balance much in my opinion. It just speeded the games up since people got res faster.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I don't think anybody is making the claim that it ruins the balance. Balance is overrated anyway. What we are saying is that makes individual players' FPS skills more important to victory than team strategy or unit tactics.
Now seriously. Since the devs are very much in favor of keeping R4K from what I've seen and by that I mean putting it in NS2), why don't we talk about something that actually matters?
<!--quoteo(post=1576546:date=Nov 13 2006, 04:30 AM:name=SmoodCroozn)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SmoodCroozn @ Nov 13 2006, 04:30 AM) [snapback]1576546[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Why don't you go around asking every player that doesn't have a 50-5 score in servers and ask them why they aren't good as the pro players? Oh, you think they aren't trying hard enough?
Malkalevi, as much as I understand that this doesn't matter in clan matches, you seem to forget that 99% of NS is played in PUBS. Please, get your head out of this "1 clan game > 9999 pub games" mentality because pubbers are the only way NS can grow.
If you guys believe RFK is good for the game, that's good for you. Don't worry, my goal isn't to change anyone's view here. I believe res can and should be attained from another source and that's all I want to get out there.
I just wish Flayra and co could explain RFK for us, from his words, since after all, he calls the shots. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How about YOU get your head out of your ######. When I say "competitive activies", I'm not talking about playing NS in a league. Even public play is considered competitive. Anything where there's 2 teams trying to beat eachother is competitive. Prick.
And skulkbait, your arguments are pretty weak. R4K destroys unit tactics? Uhh, no. Whether there was R4K or not, dying would hurt your team, and killing would help. R4K or not, people are going to try to kill the enemy without themselves dying.
100% default NS is pretty ######. There are so many little tweaks you can do to improve your game, but you're so dead-set on staying terrible and just crying about R4K and hoping Flayra feels sorry for you and changing it. Anyways, this thread sucks.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->And skulkbait, your arguments are pretty weak. R4K destroys unit tactics? Uhh, no. Whether there was R4K or not, dying would hurt your team, and killing would help. R4K or not, people are going to try to kill the enemy without themselves dying.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes, yes. Totally agree. Now can we, for the love of all that is holy, drop the R4K subject!?
BTW. Why are you such a total ######? I've explained to you why I can't just "get better" at FPSs, aside from cheating (is that what you meant by not 100% default?). So I tell you what, you agree to shut the hell up about R4K and stop insulting me and I'll agree with you. I'm a total whiner. R4K is great. And anybody who can't shoot obviously just isn't trying hard enough. There, happy?
I think he meant more along the lines of <!--c1--><div class='codetop'>CODE</div><div class='codemain'><!--ec1--> brightness "5" gamma "3" lightgamma "0" m_filter "0" cl_bob "0" hud_fastswitch "1" <!--c2--></div><!--ec2-->
and similar things. Not to mention disabling vertical synch to get over 60 fps (if you need to), installing the cpl mousefix, making sure enhanced pointer precision is unchecked, and finding a sensitivity that works (no it's really not just what you're used to). Removing ambient sound and installing less intrusive HUD icons also helps.
After that you need to find a comfortable position at your computer, and study the game. How do aliens move, when do they move and what is it that you do that makes them dodge in that direction. To understand this you also need to learn how to move that way yourself, so spend time on a private server just getting the feel for the game physics. How quick can I strafe and turn before I start losing speed, where do I time my first strafe jump to gain the most speed, how long can I jump - can I get to that edge over there by jumping, what if I strafe while I press forward and jump? The better players you play against (within reason), the quicker you will improve.
It's like everything else, practice makes perfect. The day you stop studying what other players are doing and try to improve is the day you start getting worse at the game.
BadMouthIt ceases to be exclusive when you can have a custom member titlJoin Date: 2004-05-21Member: 28815Members
<!--quoteo(post=1576622:date=Nov 13 2006, 11:10 AM:name=SkulkBait)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SkulkBait @ Nov 13 2006, 11:10 AM) [snapback]1576622[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Yes, yes. Totally agree. Now can we, for the love of all that is holy, drop the R4K subject!?
BTW. Why are you such a total ######? I've explained to you why I can't just "get better" at FPSs, aside from cheating (is that what you meant by not 100% default?). So I tell you what, you agree to shut the hell up about R4K and stop insulting me and I'll agree with you. I'm a total whiner. R4K is great. And anybody who can't shoot obviously just isn't trying hard enough. There, happy? <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
yeah. we should move on. so now what do we debate about?
this thread really seems to have lost all momentum, so please stop posting in it <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
the best part is you keep saying "ok you guys are right and im wrong lets stop arguing about this" and then in the next paragraph make another comment about how awful rfk is and how youre being treated badly by these horrible people on the internet forums. very smooth way to get some sympathy
Whats it going to take to make this thread not about me anymore? I conceeded all points, and yet people looked right passed my concession and argued against a point I already conceeded. I'd imagine that if I conceed to you and say that I was just trying to get sympathy, you'd continue to bring it up. You all seem more interested in insulting me than actually discussing anything relevant.
Now please, unless you actually have something usefull to do besides insult me for postcount++, then please shut up.
<!--quoteo(post=1577221:date=Nov 14 2006, 06:25 PM:name=SkulkBait)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SkulkBait @ Nov 14 2006, 06:25 PM) [snapback]1577221[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Whats it going to take to make this thread not about me anymore? I conceeded all points, and yet people looked right passed my concession and argued against a point I already conceeded. I'd imagine that if I conceed to you and say that I was just trying to get sympathy, you'd continue to bring it up. You all seem more interested in insulting me than actually discussing anything relevant.
Now please, unless you actually have something usefull to do besides insult me for postcount++, then please shut up.
What happened to the whole com chair discussion? <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sounds like you were being sarcastic to me. You said "ok you win i'm wrong" but you say it in such an obviously insincere manner.
Example.. <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Note to the clueless: I've dropped the subject. You win Ok? R4K is the greatest thing since sliced bread. FPS skill is the only thing that should matter in a game, ever. Stop bringing it up just to waste a post insulting me.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You guys are right. R4K is the greatest thing ever and, if anything, should be even more rewarding. In fact, the team with the highest K-D ratio should automatically win. Now, can we shut up about R4K and talk about something that someone on the dev team might actually some day fix?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So yes, stop victimizing yourself. If you really want to drop it, then just stop responding to this thread.
Comments
MrMakaveli, it isn't that I don't want to take your advice, its just that your advice is nothing new to me. I've tried lots and lots of different things trying to improve my ability. But it turns out that dog just won't hunt. I've tried sensitivity settings between 3 and 9, I believe I used 5 and 6 most often.
Heres the funny thing: Thinking back on it, I was actually a pretty decent NS player in 1.04. I specifically remember at least 5 fade knife kills, which weren't exactly rare, but still. I remember taking part in group attacks and getting kills without dying. Hell, I even remember being able to play higher lifeforms without feeling like I was wasting res. Thinking about it some more, I'm leaning towards the conclusion that the game has made a shift from being tactical on the individual level, to being FPS skill based on the individual level, and thus my horrible FPS skills are exposed.
Let me put it this way. If you're focusing on the answer on winning and then complain why you lost the game, it's because you haven't focused on the PROCESS of your tactics, and with process comes teamwork. Woah, process? What's that you ask? Re-read my previous paragraph again and tell me. Granted that if you can't kill the enemy for sh*t, then what do you do? Build something. Try to get that second hive up. Help the comm build the buildings, or be a Gorge and build structures. Something that will help the team. If you can't kill, then focus on capping nodes, building chambers, anything that would benefit your team, and then maybe, just maybe you will win the game. As for those others who have like 30-1, let them have it, but in the end, it wouldn't matter if you won or lost. At least you were in the process of helping out your team as much as you can. I've played games where there were a couple of Fades that had K:D ratios like that, and the Alien team still lost because of a few aliens not doing their jobs that should have benefitted their team.
Therefore, leading to my first paragraph, with teamwork. And don't argue with my point because of "this" or "that". You're just making excuses for the things you can't control. If you're just thinking of just winning games and then you complain on why the game failed on you because you didn't win, or because of this player sucked, then think again and look in the mirror.
Let's just end it there. This is getting too philosophical and political.
Problem with this is that while they're fine for a game or two, they get extremely boring if thats all you ever do. Plus, as I said earlier, the game has shifted such that the reasons people like me can't kill ish is because its based on FPS skills and not tactics. I don't know of anybody who was so bad 1.04 that they were as bad as I am at 3.x.
Personally, I think balance is an overratted concept. People look back at what I consider to be the games peak and think of it unbalanced, and yet it was alot more fun and the games went back and forth for hours.
I'm sure you all know that this means survival of the fittest!
If you are not good enough to be a commander or fade, get better or choose another role, it's not that hard really. I feel the game is very well balanced despite the fact that the two teams are completely different.
Now if both sides had players of equal skill there would be no problem, what you are trying to do is make everything easier or faster to learn and you just can't do that, it defeats the point.
In any game the team with better players is more likely to win it is no different in NS except that certain roles have more effect on the outcome.
That's why, even with the fade we have today, people die or live based on skills. Yet skills are something that have no foundation because... it's never fixed.
Anyway, back to RFK... RFK is a sloppy measure. While a need for more res could be valid, I don't believe this is the best way.
It just rewards whoever happens to land the killing blow on a victim.
While some people have said RFK rewards tactics or whatever, is that really the case? Is standing around in gas spores really rewarding tactics? Is spawn camping an alien hive really strategy, or is it no different than those point and click games? Or how about fades camping a phase gate?
Killing is a part of NS, but it should be treated as so. We don't see gorges getting res from healing other players. We don't see skulks getting res from parasiting. We don't see marines getting res from welding. Why should landing the last blow to a person be regarded as worth giving res to? If anything, the previous actions I've stated are about teamwork.
But the people who do abuse the system will fight to keep it, rather than consider the 90% of players that do not gain as much from RFK as they do.
Balance in NS has to be looked upon two ways. The balance on the game itself and the skills of the players.
That's why, even with the fade we have today, people die or live based on skills. Yet skills are something that have no foundation because... it's never fixed.
Anyway, back to RFK... RFK is a sloppy measure. While a need for more res could be valid, I don't believe this is the best way.
It just rewards whoever happens to land the killing blow on a victim.
While some people have said RFK rewards tactics or whatever, is that really the case? Is standing around in gas spores really rewarding tactics? Is spawn camping an alien hive really strategy, or is it no different than those point and click games? Or how about fades camping a phase gate?
Killing is a part of NS, but it should be treated as so. We don't see gorges getting res from healing other players. We don't see skulks getting res from parasiting. We don't see marines getting res from welding. Why should landing the last blow to a person be regarded as worth giving res to? If anything, the previous actions I've stated are about teamwork.
But the people who do abuse the system will fight to keep it, rather than consider the 90% of players that do not gain as much from RFK as they do.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Because getting res from killing is the least abusable and makes the most sense. Imagine the actual abuse if you get res from parasiting marines or for welding or healing your teammates.. LoL
And yes, camping the hive and the PG is strategy. If the marines actually get inside the hive and spawn camp for a good while, that'll be a huge delay for aliens. If enough aliens swarm the PG and the marines are dumb enough to phase through, then that's free res for the aliens. 1 fade will never be able to camp a PG if the whole team phases through with shotguns. And are you seriously saying that people with more skills are abusing rfk because they get more kills than others?
Please re-read what you have quoted and you will see that nowhere I mentioned the commander mode was a failure. It is an interesting, attractive, and unique feature. It does however carry too much weight on the shoulders of a single player, has a very steep learning curve, and not everyone who plays NS played an RTS game before. My issue is that limiting one commander per team effectively locks newcomers out of it, and creates situations such as people not wanting to comm for the first couple of minutes - because they don't want the responsability.
If NS2 were to have much bigger maps than NS1, having one commander per game would be even worse.
If you think that Commanders are fine the way the are, its your opinion. Mine just happens to respectfully disagree.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Locking new players out of the chair is a <b>good</b> thing. Learning to command isn't something one should be doing frequently on most public servers until you understand most of the game. It is an advanced skill that is not easily picked up because it's rather unique. It's the most difficult thing in the game to do because it requires people skills (some would say leadership, but there's more to it than that) and personal skill.
The other example you give is an example of a social problem, not game problem. It's not the games fault most people can't take responsibility for anything.
Don't post your opinion in a constructive criticism thread unless you want others to critique it. I simply did what you did and posted my thoughts. Don't take offense.
But whatever. SmoodCroozn, I suggest you do as I have and give up. The people who benefit most from R4K will never admit that its a problem. Ever. And Flay agrees with them, I know because we went over this entire conversation about a year ago. So you may as well join me in saying:
You guys are right. R4K is the greatest thing ever and, if anything, should be even <i>more</i> rewarding. In fact, the team with the highest K-D ratio should automatically win. Now, can we shut up about R4K and talk about something that someone on the dev team might actually some day fix?
The on thing that was missing from the original post is the ciriticism of trying to balance NS and CO on the same system. Its rediculous. The gameplay is completely different in almost every way possible. Forcing CO and NS to play by the same rules makes them both much less than they deserve to be.
I used to be absolutely horrible at all fps games, not just ns. I think it's after a long time that I finally became above-average at it. Fps skills isn't something you're born with, it takes time to develop and sometimes you have to develop it right. Skulkbait would you mind telling us what exactly is the reason why you absolutely can't improve your fps skills?
Malkalevi, as much as I understand that this doesn't matter in clan matches, you seem to forget that 99% of NS is played in PUBS. Please, get your head out of this "1 clan game > 9999 pub games" mentality because pubbers are the only way NS can grow.
If you guys believe RFK is good for the game, that's good for you. Don't worry, my goal isn't to change anyone's view here. I believe res can and should be attained from another source and that's all I want to get out there.
I just wish Flayra and co could explain RFK for us, from his words, since after all, he calls the shots.
Why don't you go around asking every player that doesn't have a 50-5 score in servers and ask them why they aren't good as the pro players? Oh, you think they aren't trying hard enough?
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Not that they aren't trying hard enough, but that they don't play enough. All you need is to be above average to get a high k:d ratio on a server with a lot of bad walker skulks. I used to be one of those crappy pubbers, you know. I think that's how most people started out as, so that's like telling the "pro" players to ask their past selves why they're not doing as good as that other guy.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Competitive activities require skill. If you are complaining that your lack of skill is a disadvantage to your team because of RFK, it was a disadvantage before RFK. Get better or deal with it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
My lack of FPS "point the mouse really fast quickly and accurately and then track a moving target while accounting for recoil" skill is a severe disadvantage. As I've said (and it has not been chalanged yet), I believe that NS 1.0x was based more on <i>tactics</i> at the unit level, which meant you improved through knowldge and quick thinking. I was much much better at this.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Skulkbait would you mind telling us what exactly is the reason why you absolutely can't improve your fps skills?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Can you juggle? I can't. And believe me I've worked at it. My brain just can't move my hands quickly and accurately enough. You could call it a physical disability, but I seriously doubt that its worse than "less than average".
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I just wish Flayra and co could explain RFK for us, from his words, since after all, he calls the shots.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm not flay, but when this came up last year, I believe he said something along the lines of "Players were complaining about not being able to make a difference in the outcome". I took this to mean people who are used to pwning it up in CS weren't achieving victory based solely on their ability to shoot, so they ######ed and flay gave them R4K. I'd find the post for you, but last time I checked the search function didn't work right when you filtered by poster (it filters <i>topics</i> by that poster, not <i>posts</i>).
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->R4K didnt affect balance much in my opinion. It just speeded the games up since people got res faster.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't think anybody is making the claim that it ruins the balance. Balance is overrated anyway. What we are saying is that makes individual players' FPS skills more important to victory than team strategy or unit tactics.
Now seriously. Since the devs are very much in favor of keeping R4K from what I've seen and by that I mean putting it in NS2), why don't we talk about something that actually matters?
Why don't you go around asking every player that doesn't have a 50-5 score in servers and ask them why they aren't good as the pro players? Oh, you think they aren't trying hard enough?
Malkalevi, as much as I understand that this doesn't matter in clan matches, you seem to forget that 99% of NS is played in PUBS. Please, get your head out of this "1 clan game > 9999 pub games" mentality because pubbers are the only way NS can grow.
If you guys believe RFK is good for the game, that's good for you. Don't worry, my goal isn't to change anyone's view here. I believe res can and should be attained from another source and that's all I want to get out there.
I just wish Flayra and co could explain RFK for us, from his words, since after all, he calls the shots.
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How about YOU get your head out of your ######. When I say "competitive activies", I'm not talking about playing NS in a league. Even public play is considered competitive. Anything where there's 2 teams trying to beat eachother is competitive. Prick.
And skulkbait, your arguments are pretty weak. R4K destroys unit tactics? Uhh, no. Whether there was R4K or not, dying would hurt your team, and killing would help. R4K or not, people are going to try to kill the enemy without themselves dying.
100% default NS is pretty ######. There are so many little tweaks you can do to improve your game, but you're so dead-set on staying terrible and just crying about R4K and hoping Flayra feels sorry for you and changing it. Anyways, this thread sucks.
Yes, yes. Totally agree. Now can we, for the love of all that is holy, drop the R4K subject!?
BTW. Why are you such a total ######? I've explained to you why I can't just "get better" at FPSs, aside from cheating (is that what you meant by not 100% default?). So I tell you what, you agree to shut the hell up about R4K and stop insulting me and I'll agree with you. I'm a total whiner. R4K is great. And anybody who can't shoot obviously just isn't trying hard enough. There, happy?
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and similar things. Not to mention disabling vertical synch to get over 60 fps (if you need to), installing the cpl mousefix, making sure enhanced pointer precision is unchecked, and finding a sensitivity that works (no it's really not just what you're used to). Removing ambient sound and installing less intrusive HUD icons also helps.
After that you need to find a comfortable position at your computer, and study the game. How do aliens move, when do they move and what is it that you do that makes them dodge in that direction. To understand this you also need to learn how to move that way yourself, so spend time on a private server just getting the feel for the game physics. How quick can I strafe and turn before I start losing speed, where do I time my first strafe jump to gain the most speed, how long can I jump - can I get to that edge over there by jumping, what if I strafe while I press forward and jump? The better players you play against (within reason), the quicker you will improve.
It's like everything else, practice makes perfect. The day you stop studying what other players are doing and try to improve is the day you start getting worse at the game.
Yes, yes. Totally agree. Now can we, for the love of all that is holy, drop the R4K subject!?
BTW. Why are you such a total ######? I've explained to you why I can't just "get better" at FPSs, aside from cheating (is that what you meant by not 100% default?). So I tell you what, you agree to shut the hell up about R4K and stop insulting me and I'll agree with you. I'm a total whiner. R4K is great. And anybody who can't shoot obviously just isn't trying hard enough. There, happy?
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yeah. we should move on. so now what do we debate about?
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Now please, unless you actually have something usefull to do besides insult me for postcount++, then please shut up.
What happened to the whole com chair discussion?
Whats it going to take to make this thread not about me anymore? I conceeded all points, and yet people looked right passed my concession and argued against a point I already conceeded. I'd imagine that if I conceed to you and say that I was just trying to get sympathy, you'd continue to bring it up. You all seem more interested in insulting me than actually discussing anything relevant.
Now please, unless you actually have something usefull to do besides insult me for postcount++, then please shut up.
What happened to the whole com chair discussion?
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Sounds like you were being sarcastic to me. You said "ok you win i'm wrong" but you say it in such an obviously insincere manner.
Example.. <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Note to the clueless: I've dropped the subject. You win Ok? R4K is the greatest thing since sliced bread. FPS skill is the only thing that should matter in a game, ever. Stop bringing it up just to waste a post insulting me.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You guys are right. R4K is the greatest thing ever and, if anything, should be even more rewarding. In fact, the team with the highest K-D ratio should automatically win. Now, can we shut up about R4K and talk about something that someone on the dev team might actually some day fix?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So yes, stop victimizing yourself. If you really want to drop it, then just stop responding to this thread.