in retrospect i say the game would be banaced now by two things.
1, impliment a marine turret limit. 2, fix the vent bugs in relation to marines.
Seriosuly, i only said it was unbalanced when i thoguth my claws and teeth werent doing the damage they should(while their guns doing more damage than they should), and because i'm tired of the turret swarms.. oh, and the seige turret shooting through walls.. wtf is up with that >.<
<span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'><i>This post has been edited to protect the innocent and to stop insane haunting me with posts from the past! </i></span>
<!--QuoteBegin--Draxo+Nov 23 2002, 09:47 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Draxo @ Nov 23 2002, 09:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->come now.. that happened.. once? in one game? ever think you were playing newbies?
Ive been in games where we've been pushed back from Onos assaulting back to fade then to Skulk in a matter of a half hour.
Aliens cant do that..<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> The hell you say? Most every game I play I see aliens win. And you know what? They don't always take 20 minutes to get a second hive. Also, aliens should be harassing the marines early game, not letting them get so many resources as to easily hand out HMG and HA.
If the marines were able to take out 3 hives, it's because they were good players and/or the aliens weren't very good. Or outnumbered.
A little teamwork, a couple skulks can take down a HA marine. Cutting off marine resources is a good thing- and not hard to do even with a lowly skulk. It costs at least 20 rps per marine to upgrade their attack strength significantly. A skulks base attack does.. what 70/75 damage?
It all balances. Try playing it for 6 months like the testers did before handing out an inexperienced opinion stated as fact.
And the statement about the Siege cannon... yeah it shoots through walls on purpose. Soundwaves do that sort of thing. If they had to be built with a LOS to the alien building.. what would be the point of them? The time required to put up a turret fac/upgrade it/build a siege would pretty much guarentee aliens removing the threat without much problem. How else can the marines counter being walled in early on by walls of lame? (stacked OCs in front of the marine spawn).
=Edit= I may be a little rash, but I am just upset over seeing people whine incessently. Especially when I see two different groups of people claiming the other side is unbalanced. It's laughable, but also quite irritating.
I generally play as marines cause I loved the 2nd alien movie and it's space marines. I've been a commander 8 times now and I have a record of 5/3. The times I've lost have occured because I was a newb commander (the first 2 times) or because the Alien team has had some really great players. I've won the last 3 games I've commanded due to good marines and now I know how to command effectively. What has ticked me off, however, occured when we lost due to marines not following my orders. I was labeled a "bad" commander and told I "suck". Now this really hurts me, but only for a second. I've found with good teamwork the marines can definitely kick alien **obscenity**. On the otherside, a team of uncordinated marines, which can be because of the players or the commander, really doesn't have a chance against the weakest alien team. A "siege crawl", as I like to call it, where you keep on building sieges on your way to the hive can be devasting. If no one is around to build the factories or the sieges then it's all over.
I have come back from 3 hives twice with the marines and I've lost when they only have 2 hives. I guess in conclusion it all depends on teamwork for both teams.
Enjoy, KB
-The opinions expressed in the previous comment are those of KB and do not necessarily reflect yours...
<!--QuoteBegin--warzonepress+Nov 23 2002, 03:44 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (warzonepress @ Nov 23 2002, 03:44 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->hahah no Im not a noob, this is my first reply, cause I didn't really care to post in these forums, for I have my own site, www.warzonegaming.com
I play games for a living and have put in a good 120 hours into this game, easily, infact I am perhaps one of the best commanders, if I do say so myself, I drop ammo and health packets, and hardly lose a life on the map.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> 1) $20 website up in 20 minutes means nothing. The formatting of your site is horrible and not consistent. Not to mention the unimaginative layout.
<!--QuoteBegin--othell+Nov 24 2002, 12:02 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (othell @ Nov 24 2002, 12:02 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--warzonepress+Nov 23 2002, 03:44 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (warzonepress @ Nov 23 2002, 03:44 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->hahah no Im not a noob, this is my first reply, cause I didn't really care to post in these forums, for I have my own site, www.warzonegaming.com
I play games for a living and have put in a good 120 hours into this game, easily, infact I am perhaps one of the best commanders, if I do say so myself, I drop ammo and health packets, and hardly lose a life on the map.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> 1) $20 website up in 20 minutes means nothing. The formatting of your site is horrible and not consistent. Not to mention the unimaginative layout.
<!--QuoteBegin--Draxo+Nov 23 2002, 04:17 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Draxo @ Nov 23 2002, 04:17 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->yeah, but i'll take an example from yesterday.
I was harrasing marines from the shafts, i hear someone coming, go invis =) and wait.. classic scene, marine crawling through the dark creepy shafts, i wait till he turns a corner and creep up behind him. Skreech, i leap and rend him, then bite bite bite bite bite, he turnsd around, bit bite.. **obscenity** this guy sint dead yet?
bite, he shoots on auto, bite bite, he's left full auto on i'm dead.
now.. wtf? i dont know if the game is glitchy in some respect.. but i leapt and then bit that guy how many times? 10? that was with an lmg? he had light armor at best?
somethings just wrong here.. then theres the guy that somehow survived my Fade slashing 5-6 times and blew me apart from 100 health and 80+ armor with a pistol.. while i was slashing him over and over.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Hit boxes are messed inside vents for bite attacks. Same goes for ladders unless you're not on the actual ladder when biting, hopefully they'll fix this soon, but for now, just try and deal with it. I.e. dont get in those situations.
Well due to carapace negating damage bug,aliens can take ridiculous amounts of damage before dying,but once thats fixed,maybe we can get some REAL tests done to see if any side is unbalaned.
Personally i find it ridiculous that i can evolve to gorg and sit at a hive location and get a 2nd hive up in approx 10 minutes on a 8 vs 8 game with only 2 gorgs total,at which point the marine team gets completely owned by 6 fades.....6 fades vs 7 lmg marines.....yea right the marines will win w00t,theres no contest,marines 0wnz j00!!!!
The teams are very well balanced. PERIOD. The only aspect that needs addressing is Bug fixing- and after that happens, then maybe we can see if the teams are still balanced. End of discussion.
Axiom: Fix the bugs, then check the balance. I think that on the whole it is too early for anyone on the forums to make balance statements to the effect of "Team_blah is so under/overpowered!" Let's see how it ends up when the devs consider and 'fix' (or accept) bugs such as:
Aliens always having a damage-de-multiplier even if armor is all out The Siege turrets sometimes doing no damage to alien structures The various hitbox issues (Vents, ladders) The readyroom bug (lets people walk around with no weapons but invincible)
As it stands now, people are asking for armor changes, siege/DC changes, excluding marines from vents due to the hitbox, etc. It's like balancing a scale when you KNOW you're going to have to move an accidentally-added weight from it later.
I would like to read a detailed research report. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
I'm sorry warzone but I can't help but to think you have ABSOLUTELY no idea what you are talking about.
Every server that you go to, you will see an alien win to marine win ratio of roughtly 1:1 with only a slight deviation.
The picture I get from reading your post looks like one of marines dominating the entire game all the time, which is clearly NOT the case.
There was already a thread discussing how when a skilled skulk is battling an equaly skilled marine, the skulk tends to win.
There was also another thread where people would describe how they killed 5 or so marines as a skulk in one run; or killed 5 or so skulks as a marine in one run.
It is very balanced at the moment. And in fact, many people feel 1.0 was MORE balanced then 1.1 (and consequently 1.2).
For you to say that marines tend to win more boggles my mind.
Perhaps this is the experience you got while playing on your LAN with selected people at work for your review. But the above is what I experience on the net. Perhaps this is why we dont have the same play experience.
As for marine tech speed and alien tech speed, they've always been very close to each other when hitting tier 2 weapons. In fact, its been my experience HAs & HMGS come later then Fades.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->It is very balanced at the moment. And in fact, many people feel 1.0 was MORE balanced then 1.1 (and consequently 1.2).<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
1.0 probably would have been balanced. But it had pretty bad netcode. And turrets didn't need the factory to operate. I wouldn't mind all the other changes to revert back to 1.0 just to see what it would be like. Personally, I think the marines would probably become a tad (and I do mean a tad) too powerful, but not so much so that aliens couldn't win with some frequency.
Comments
1, impliment a marine turret limit.
2, fix the vent bugs in relation to marines.
Seriosuly, i only said it was unbalanced when i thoguth my claws and teeth werent doing the damage they should(while their guns doing more damage than they should), and because i'm tired of the turret swarms.. oh, and the seige turret shooting through walls.. wtf is up with that >.<
</i></span>
Ive been in games where we've been pushed back from Onos assaulting back to fade then to Skulk in a matter of a half hour.
Aliens cant do that..<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The hell you say? Most every game I play I see aliens win. And you know what? They don't always take 20 minutes to get a second hive. Also, aliens should be harassing the marines early game, not letting them get so many resources as to easily hand out HMG and HA.
If the marines were able to take out 3 hives, it's because they were good players and/or the aliens weren't very good. Or outnumbered.
A little teamwork, a couple skulks can take down a HA marine.
Cutting off marine resources is a good thing- and not hard to do even with a lowly skulk.
It costs at least 20 rps per marine to upgrade their attack strength significantly. A skulks base attack does.. what 70/75 damage?
It all balances. Try playing it for 6 months like the testers did before handing out an inexperienced opinion stated as fact.
And the statement about the Siege cannon... yeah it shoots through walls on purpose. Soundwaves do that sort of thing. If they had to be built with a LOS to the alien building.. what would be the point of them? The time required to put up a turret fac/upgrade it/build a siege would pretty much guarentee aliens removing the threat without much problem.
How else can the marines counter being walled in early on by walls of lame? (stacked OCs in front of the marine spawn).
=Edit=
I may be a little rash, but I am just upset over seeing people whine incessently. Especially when I see two different groups of people claiming the other side is unbalanced. It's laughable, but also quite irritating.
Actually, sound waves don't. That's the idea. They are mostly reflected, and only about 15% goes through.
I think it's more because, it woulda been a serious drawback if the siege needed LOS in terms of game balance.
I generally play as marines cause I loved the 2nd alien movie and it's space marines. I've been a commander 8 times now and I have a record of 5/3. The times I've lost have occured because I was a newb commander (the first 2 times) or because the Alien team has had some really great players. I've won the last 3 games I've commanded due to good marines and now I know how to command effectively. What has ticked me off, however, occured when we lost due to marines not following my orders. I was labeled a "bad" commander and told I "suck". Now this really hurts me, but only for a second. I've found with good teamwork the marines can definitely kick alien **obscenity**. On the otherside, a team of uncordinated marines, which can be because of the players or the commander, really doesn't have a chance against the weakest alien team. A "siege crawl", as I like to call it, where you keep on building sieges on your way to the hive can be devasting. If no one is around to build the factories or the sieges then it's all over.
I have come back from 3 hives twice with the marines and I've lost when they only have 2 hives. I guess in conclusion it all depends on teamwork for both teams.
Enjoy,
KB
-The opinions expressed in the previous comment are those of KB and do not necessarily reflect yours...
I play games for a living and have put in a good 120 hours into this game, easily, infact I am perhaps one of the best commanders, if I do say so myself, I drop ammo and health packets, and hardly lose a life on the map.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
1) $20 website up in 20 minutes means nothing. The formatting of your site is horrible and not consistent. Not to mention the unimaginative layout.
2) Find a new job.
<!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
I play games for a living and have put in a good 120 hours into this game, easily, infact I am perhaps one of the best commanders, if I do say so myself, I drop ammo and health packets, and hardly lose a life on the map.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
1) $20 website up in 20 minutes means nothing. The formatting of your site is horrible and not consistent. Not to mention the unimaginative layout.
2) Find a new job.
<!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Agreed.
I was harrasing marines from the shafts, i hear someone coming, go invis =) and wait.. classic scene, marine crawling through the dark creepy shafts, i wait till he turns a corner and creep up behind him. Skreech, i leap and rend him, then bite bite bite bite bite, he turnsd around, bit bite.. **obscenity** this guy sint dead yet?
bite, he shoots on auto, bite bite, he's left full auto on i'm dead.
now.. wtf? i dont know if the game is glitchy in some respect.. but i leapt and then bit that guy how many times? 10? that was with an lmg? he had light armor at best?
somethings just wrong here.. then theres the guy that somehow survived my Fade slashing 5-6 times and blew me apart from 100 health and 80+ armor with a pistol.. while i was slashing him over and over.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hit boxes are messed inside vents for bite attacks. Same goes for ladders unless you're not on the actual ladder when biting, hopefully they'll fix this soon, but for now, just try and deal with it. I.e. dont get in those situations.
Personally i find it ridiculous that i can evolve to gorg and sit at a hive location and get a 2nd hive up in approx 10 minutes on a 8 vs 8 game with only 2 gorgs total,at which point the marine team gets completely owned by 6 fades.....6 fades vs 7 lmg marines.....yea right the marines will win w00t,theres no contest,marines 0wnz j00!!!!
Aliens always having a damage-de-multiplier even if armor is all out
The Siege turrets sometimes doing no damage to alien structures
The various hitbox issues (Vents, ladders)
The readyroom bug (lets people walk around with no weapons but invincible)
As it stands now, people are asking for armor changes, siege/DC changes, excluding marines from vents due to the hitbox, etc. It's like balancing a scale when you KNOW you're going to have to move an accidentally-added weight from it later.
Every server that you go to, you will see an alien win to marine win ratio of roughtly 1:1 with only a slight deviation.
The picture I get from reading your post looks like one of marines dominating the entire game all the time, which is clearly NOT the case.
There was already a thread discussing how when a skilled skulk is battling an equaly skilled marine, the skulk tends to win.
There was also another thread where people would describe how they killed 5 or so marines as a skulk in one run; or killed 5 or so skulks as a marine in one run.
It is very balanced at the moment. And in fact, many people feel 1.0 was MORE balanced then 1.1 (and consequently 1.2).
For you to say that marines tend to win more boggles my mind.
Perhaps this is the experience you got while playing on your LAN with selected people at work for your review. But the above is what I experience on the net. Perhaps this is why we dont have the same play experience.
As for marine tech speed and alien tech speed, they've always been very close to each other when hitting tier 2 weapons. In fact, its been my experience HAs & HMGS come later then Fades.
SUSPECT
1.0 probably would have been balanced. But it had pretty bad netcode. And turrets didn't need the factory to operate. I wouldn't mind all the other changes to revert back to 1.0 just to see what it would be like. Personally, I think the marines would probably become a tad (and I do mean a tad) too powerful, but not so much so that aliens couldn't win with some frequency.