Is the 3.2 partial changelog posted in the announcements section considered "public" information? i.e.: is it kosher to repost this information on other sites?
Marik_SteeleTo rule in hell...Join Date: 2002-11-20Member: 9466Members
edited October 2006
<!--quoteo(post=1569952:date=Oct 14 2006, 05:02 PM:name=zibalatz)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(zibalatz @ Oct 14 2006, 05:02 PM) [snapback]1569952[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Is the 3.2 partial changelog posted in the announcements section considered "public" information? i.e.: is it kosher to repost this information on other sites? <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
[edit]<strike>I'm removing my answer until I talk with someone more informed about the long-term 3.2 PR plan.</strike> Puzl has answered in a post below. Here's a shortcut: <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com:90/forums/index.php?s=7593367771103379456&showtopic=98128&view=findpost&p=1569972" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com:90/forums/ind...t&p=1569972</a>[/edit]
I have a question about the changelog. For the ghost marine structures, what happens if a marine is inside it when it starts being built? Do they get stuck, do they get pushed out, can they just walk out?
Another question, for the 90% res returned, is that rounded up or down (with an RT, would the return be 13 or 14 res)?
<!--quoteo(post=1569966:date=Oct 14 2006, 11:38 PM:name=goku_ssj_uk)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(goku_ssj_uk @ Oct 14 2006, 11:38 PM) [snapback]1569966[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> The first 2 images don't work for me, am I the only one who this affects and if so anyone know why? I am using FireFox and the 3rd works. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeh, I'm having the same problem. It works if you open it in IE, but here are links to the images:
Marik_SteeleTo rule in hell...Join Date: 2002-11-20Member: 9466Members
<!--quoteo(post=1569970:date=Oct 14 2006, 07:31 PM:name=gumhat)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(gumhat @ Oct 14 2006, 07:31 PM) [snapback]1569970[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> # A ghost structure is partially transparent (but still solid) and will be immediately recycled if touched by an alien player returning 90% of the structure cost. # A ghost structure can be attacked and damaged without triggering an immediate recycle.
can you better explain that, I don't get how it can be attacked without recycling immediately and not immediately <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
In the case of a skulk bite, sure, they're likely to touch it before doing bite damage. Parasite, gorge spit, offense chambers, etc. are ranged attacks that don't require an alien to touch the structure before damaging it.
puzlThe Old FirmJoin Date: 2003-02-26Member: 14029Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
edited October 2006
Looks like we'll need to clean up the wording on the ghost structure changelog <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
[edit] I got it wrong earlier, it is possible to use melee attacks to damage a ghost structure. If you make sure to not touch the structure. Also, the res return is 80% of the structure cost, not 90%.
I don't know what's up with those images, I'll convert them to pngs tomorrow and see if that addresses it.
These changes are now public information, though I would hope that you might also relay that they are subject to change <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
douchebagatronCustom member titleJoin Date: 2003-12-20Member: 24581Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
say you are an onos running away and the comm drops a building right in front of you and you run into it, does it dissapear quick enough that you dont stop at all, or is it just a momentary stop, or how does that work?
<!--quoteo(post=1569998:date=Oct 15 2006, 02:05 AM:name=6john)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(6john @ Oct 15 2006, 02:05 AM) [snapback]1569998[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> say you are an onos running away and the comm drops a building right in front of you and you run into it, does it dissapear quick enough that you dont stop at all, or is it just a momentary stop, or how does that work? <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Good question. I would like to know, too.
I like all the changes. However, I hope more of the structure hitboxes are fixed. The phase gate hit box is way too high (skulks can hide behind them, even though you can clearly see them). Alien RT hitboxes should be changed as well. They aren't necessarily "broken", but they need to be changed. The "arms" of the alien RT should have their hitboxes removed. Gorges circling around an RT are extremely hard to kill (in some situations) due to the RT "arm" hitbox.
The delay isn't big enough to kill the moo cow. He can just tank his way through. I imagine the closest comparison would be when you walk through the meshes that have been welded open on ns_caged.
puzlThe Old FirmJoin Date: 2003-02-26Member: 14029Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
Non-solid ghost structures becoming solid is several orders of magnitude more complex than what we currently have implimented and isn't on the agenda for 3.2. The ghost structures in 3.2 is fairly effective anyway.
<!--quoteo(post=1570016:date=Oct 15 2006, 12:18 PM:name=RobB)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(RobB @ Oct 15 2006, 12:18 PM) [snapback]1570016[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> then they shouldn't be solid 'till 5 seconds after spawn, elseway the halflife momentum system will kill players O_o <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Don't forget- this change isn't only to stop structure blocking. It adds a new dimension to alien play as they can choose to eat or recycle ghost structures. Solidifying a structure 5 seconds after being +used would make it really easy for a skulk to kill a capper <b>and</b> recycle the node.
The game is already imbalanced so who cares <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad-fix.gif" />
The ghost structures dieing to touch sounds pretty stupid to me, if you arent going to go all the way with ghosted structures you should just do nothing at all. Structure blockings isn't really a problem and I'm sure this change would cause plenty worse ones itself.
Argue it all you want, the single best fix that I see is: <ul><li>Fixed commander keyboard scrolling ( +scrollleft, +scrollright, +scrollup and +scrolldown ).</li></ul>
Hot diggity! I love it! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
<!--quoteo(post=1570117:date=Oct 15 2006, 09:16 PM:name=Grahf)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Grahf @ Oct 15 2006, 09:16 PM) [snapback]1570117[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> The ghost structures dieing to touch sounds pretty stupid to me, if you arent going to go all the way with ghosted structures you should just do nothing at all. Structure blockings isn't really a problem and I'm sure this change would cause plenty worse ones itself. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
actually it's quite genius. too many times i've pugged or been on a random server on ns_veil and the command drops the cargo res 15 seconds into the game, recycles it, and drops another instantly after it's gone. compeletely locks down a node, kills a gorge/delays a resnode (in pugs thats murder).
I can think of plenty of ways to exploit that change, one of the most obvious would involve cloaked aliens. At the very minimum it will be an easy and cheap way to cheat the marines out of 3+ res and time.
It's not that the aliens wont need a buff in this next version, it's just that this is a very stupid one.
<!--quoteo(post=1570194:date=Oct 16 2006, 10:07 AM:name=Grahf)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Grahf @ Oct 16 2006, 10:07 AM) [snapback]1570194[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> I can think of plenty of ways to exploit that change, one of the most obvious would involve cloaked aliens. At the very minimum it will be an easy and cheap way to cheat the marines out of 3+ res and time.
It's not that the aliens wont need a buff in this next version, it's just that this is a very stupid one. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> So an alien will cloak, anticipate a marine structure drop, then wait around for it to happen? This can't happen at the beginning of the game, since SC's wouldn't be up yet, so that takes a bit of patience. The alternative is to camp in a favorable spot (cloaked or not) and increasing your chance of getting 2 res from the kill instead of giving the marines 2 res from the kill (a net loss of 1 res for marines, plus putting the alien in the spawn queue). Oh yeah, there's also the fact that sensory first isn't very common, so by the time an alien could do this, they could be leaping at the marine instead.
Aliens are still overpowered now and they get added extra bonus because there are no more pg/ip telefrags unless of course thats just for the Marines only but it doesn't state that. Maybe the full 3.2 will address balance issues or maybe 3.3 will fix the unbalance issues. Lets wait and see.
puzlThe Old FirmJoin Date: 2003-02-26Member: 14029Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
The phase delay wasn't implemented just to prevent telefragging, but the actual value is up for review in 3.2 anyway due to the balance change pushback introduces.
If an onos is stupid enough to stand on an IP or PG, I think he deserves to be telefragged.
<!--sizeo:4--><span style="font-size:14pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->Vote <!--sizeo:5--><span style="font-size:18pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->NO<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--> to prop "alien pushback".<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--> Let the stupid aliens die.
<!--quoteo(post=1570208:date=Oct 16 2006, 11:35 AM:name=mrThefter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(mrThefter @ Oct 16 2006, 11:35 AM) [snapback]1570208[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> If an onos is stupid enough to stand on an IP or PG, I think he deserves to be telefragged.
<!--sizeo:4--><span style="font-size:14pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->Vote <!--sizeo:5--><span style="font-size:18pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->NO<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--> to prop "alien pushback".<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--> Let the stupid aliens die. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> How about the HA marine that happens to be running across the pg?
Comments
Is the 3.2 partial changelog posted in the announcements section considered "public" information? i.e.: is it kosher to repost this information on other sites?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
[edit]<strike>I'm removing my answer until I talk with someone more informed about the long-term 3.2 PR plan.</strike> Puzl has answered in a post below. Here's a shortcut: <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com:90/forums/index.php?s=7593367771103379456&showtopic=98128&view=findpost&p=1569972" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com:90/forums/ind...t&p=1569972</a>[/edit]
Another question, for the 90% res returned, is that rounded up or down (with an RT, would the return be 13 or 14 res)?
Nothing looks bad in the changelog, good work.
The first 2 images don't work for me, am I the only one who this affects and if so anyone know why? I am using FireFox and the 3rd works.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeh, I'm having the same problem. It works if you open it in IE, but here are links to the images:
<a href="http://princess.yoclanmail.com/hitbox_comparison_seige.jpg" target="_blank">Siege hitbox comparison</a>
<a href="http://princess.yoclanmail.com/hitbox_comparison_rt.jpg" target="_blank">RT hitbox comparison</a>
# A ghost structure is partially transparent (but still solid) and will be immediately recycled if touched by an alien player returning 90% of the structure cost.
# A ghost structure can be attacked and damaged without triggering an immediate recycle.
can you better explain that, I don't get how it can be attacked without recycling immediately and not immediately
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
In the case of a skulk bite, sure, they're likely to touch it before doing bite damage. Parasite, gorge spit, offense chambers, etc. are ranged attacks that don't require an alien to touch the structure before damaging it.
[edit]
I got it wrong earlier, it is possible to use melee attacks to damage a ghost structure. If you make sure to not touch the structure. Also, the res return is 80% of the structure cost, not 90%.
I don't know what's up with those images, I'll convert them to pngs tomorrow and see if that addresses it.
These changes are now public information, though I would hope that you might also relay that they are subject to change <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
The last time I saw anything about parasite in a changelog, it didn't do damage to structures (back in 2.0 or so).
say you are an onos running away and the comm drops a building right in front of you and you run into it, does it dissapear quick enough that you dont stop at all, or is it just a momentary stop, or how does that work?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Good question. I would like to know, too.
I like all the changes. However, I hope more of the structure hitboxes are fixed. The phase gate hit box is way too high (skulks can hide behind them, even though you can clearly see them). Alien RT hitboxes should be changed as well. They aren't necessarily "broken", but they need to be changed. The "arms" of the alien RT should have their hitboxes removed. Gorges circling around an RT are extremely hard to kill (in some situations) due to the RT "arm" hitbox.
Don't forget- this change isn't only to stop structure blocking. It adds a new dimension to alien play as they can choose to eat or recycle ghost structures. Solidifying a structure 5 seconds after being +used would make it really easy for a skulk to kill a capper <b>and</b> recycle the node.
<ul><li>Fixed commander keyboard scrolling ( +scrollleft, +scrollright, +scrollup and +scrolldown ).</li></ul>
Hot diggity! I love it! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
The ghost structures dieing to touch sounds pretty stupid to me, if you arent going to go all the way with ghosted structures you should just do nothing at all. Structure blockings isn't really a problem and I'm sure this change would cause plenty worse ones itself.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
actually it's quite genius. too many times i've pugged or been on a random server on ns_veil and the command drops the cargo res 15 seconds into the game, recycles it, and drops another instantly after it's gone. compeletely locks down a node, kills a gorge/delays a resnode (in pugs thats murder).
ALL HAIL GHOST STRUCTURES.
It's not that the aliens wont need a buff in this next version, it's just that this is a very stupid one.
I can think of plenty of ways to exploit that change, one of the most obvious would involve cloaked aliens. At the very minimum it will be an easy and cheap way to cheat the marines out of 3+ res and time.
It's not that the aliens wont need a buff in this next version, it's just that this is a very stupid one.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So an alien will cloak, anticipate a marine structure drop, then wait around for it to happen? This can't happen at the beginning of the game, since SC's wouldn't be up yet, so that takes a bit of patience. The alternative is to camp in a favorable spot (cloaked or not) and increasing your chance of getting 2 res from the kill instead of giving the marines 2 res from the kill (a net loss of 1 res for marines, plus putting the alien in the spawn queue). Oh yeah, there's also the fact that sensory first isn't very common, so by the time an alien could do this, they could be leaping at the marine instead.
<!--sizeo:4--><span style="font-size:14pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->Vote <!--sizeo:5--><span style="font-size:18pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->NO<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--> to prop "alien pushback".<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
Let the stupid aliens die.
If an onos is stupid enough to stand on an IP or PG, I think he deserves to be telefragged.
<!--sizeo:4--><span style="font-size:14pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->Vote <!--sizeo:5--><span style="font-size:18pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->NO<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--> to prop "alien pushback".<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
Let the stupid aliens die.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How about the HA marine that happens to be running across the pg?