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The Lighter Side of Pessimism Join Date: 2002-03-02 Member: 263Members, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
The Lighter Side of Pessimism Join Date: 2002-03-02 Member: 263Members, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
<div class="IPBDescription">A visual indicator of territory.</div>In a number of strategy games each team/player has territory. Initially its relatively small, but as the game progresses, through the researching of relavent technologies and construction of buildings, the size of their territory increases. Until at some point the borders of their territory touches the territorial borders of another team/player.
Now picture territory as a part of NS:S. To players with their flashlights on, the two territories are marked by a thin fog of nanites for the marines and a thin fog of bacteria for the aliens. Where the two territories meet, the air burns with the microscopic battle between the two particle clouds.
When a structure is built, it gradually claims the area around it for its team; filling the air within a certain radius with its team's identifying particle. The observatory, sensory chamber, hive and command chair all claim a greater area than other structures. In addition, the area around uncapped resource nodes is naturally already filled with nanites and is thus marine territory by default.
While this is all well and good, it is little more than a visual fancy unless there is some form of 'bonus' for occupying territory.
Marines:
- marines on their own territory don't show up on Scent of Fear (unless parasited)
- structures on marine territory slowly repair
- wepons dropped in marine territory fade out slower
- <insert other stuff here>
Aliens:
- aliens on their own territory don't show up on motion tracking
- aliens on their own territory regenerate slowly (basically restricting the innate regeneration in current versions of NS to alien territory)
- <insert other stuff here>
Now picture territory as a part of NS:S. To players with their flashlights on, the two territories are marked by a thin fog of nanites for the marines and a thin fog of bacteria for the aliens. Where the two territories meet, the air burns with the microscopic battle between the two particle clouds.
When a structure is built, it gradually claims the area around it for its team; filling the air within a certain radius with its team's identifying particle. The observatory, sensory chamber, hive and command chair all claim a greater area than other structures. In addition, the area around uncapped resource nodes is naturally already filled with nanites and is thus marine territory by default.
While this is all well and good, it is little more than a visual fancy unless there is some form of 'bonus' for occupying territory.
Marines:
- marines on their own territory don't show up on Scent of Fear (unless parasited)
- structures on marine territory slowly repair
- wepons dropped in marine territory fade out slower
- <insert other stuff here>
Aliens:
- aliens on their own territory don't show up on motion tracking
- aliens on their own territory regenerate slowly (basically restricting the innate regeneration in current versions of NS to alien territory)
- <insert other stuff here>
Comments
As long as it doesn't go Battlefieldy where people have to capture nano-flags. :P
In addition, the territory should be outlined on the map, like in Enemy Territory: Quake Wars (I can't find a shot right now, so if you don't know what I mean I can make a concept shot). Commander should see it too.
I'm not sure I like no motion tracking / hive site at all when the enemy is inside their territory, as that would really make those upgrades almost not worth having, but perhaps greatly reducing it's range would be good.
I do like the aliens healing slightly idea.
The nice part about this is that for the Marines at least it's already somewhat implemented via the existing "must build within radius of other object" system.
Perhaps make motion a two teired tech, initially it only shows aliens outside of their own territory. Then when its upgraded it shows all alien movement on the map, irrespective of the territory they're in.
It's really not going to help aliens, they're probably near a friendly gorge/hive/defense chamber and can quickly heal.
It's usually rare for structures or so to be out of reach of the "healing equipment".
And for the hive sight do you mean scent of fear?
And yeah, I mean scent of fear.
for aliens, when their territory increases, small roots appear on the surface around the structure (as well as some green slime). hives expand alot of territory, and DCs and OCs increase territory a small amount. more chambers does not add to territory range unless they cover space that hasnt already been covered.
-regen speed of health and energy is increased while in alien territory. (doesnt stack with regeneration or adrenaline)
-if an OC is within the territory of a hive it will emit a shreaking noise if it "spots" a marine player or structure. both marines and aliens can hear this.
for marines, comm chairs increase territory a large amount, (not anywhere near as much as a hive though)ips, phase gates, and tfs. just like the aliens they only increase territory if their range covers parts others dont.
-innate regeneration of aliens is halted, but it doesnt effect the regeneration upgrade at all.
-an alien's vision will be slightly tinted green if they have their flashlights on inside marine territory.
-the marine commander can hear all sounds coming from an area inside marine territory when his/her view is over that area.
I'm unsure about some of the specific benefits and drawbacks of being in marine/kharaa territory, and of how to visually represent this (the flashlight "floating spores" idea, in particular, seems far too flashy and obtuse), but otherwise I like it.
(Of course i pretyped and stored my text this time ~~)
I really love the idea of the microscopic war. It adds so much atmosphere to the game. Additionaly it makes you think about the: "who controls who" thing. Is the TSA using the Grid for its purpose, or is the Grid using the Marines for its battle against the bacteria, just like the bacteria is using the kharaa.
So here are the things i suggested, which have not been mentioned here:
- The Commander can not drop stuff in areas which are under bacteria control (logic ... there are no nanites)
- There is a kind of portable nano-emitter which emits some kind of prototype warrior nanites. A marine can carry it into infested areas. He has to drop and build/activate it, before it works. If it is acitve it creates a small area where the bacteria is repeled, and the commander can drop buildings etc. (If it is too powerfull, this action could be indicated in the hivesight, so aliens know whats going on)
- There has to be a kind of limitation, because otherwise the marines would pave the map with these emitters. They could be very expensive, or limited by energy, what ever ^^
- Alienstructures build in nano-controled areas, should have some drawbacks: i.e. slower building, no selfhealing or smaller effect radius for chambers.
- The bacteria tissue could grow slowldy on its own, repeling the standart-nanites. This would require "Cleaning-operations" by the marines, if they don't want to loose too much mapcontrol. (yay for the flamethrower ~~)
Well think of it. A totaly new understanding of mapcontrol would be possible. There are so many possibilties in this.
For example, say that scanner sweep works by dropping a burst of nanites within its radius. This burst of nanites would temporarily render the area within the radius of the scan marine territory. In addition, perhaps one of the perks of being in marine territory is that ammo drops are free. With those two things in mind, you can picture a comm scanning a squad of marines and taking the opportunity granted by the scan to restock their ammo.
In a number of strategy games each team/player has territory. Initially its relatively small, but as the game progresses, through the researching of relavent technologies and construction of buildings, the size of their territory increases. Until at some point the borders of their territory touches the territorial borders of another team/player.
Now picture territory as a part of NS:S. To players with their flashlights on, the two territories are marked by a thin fog of nanites for the marines and a thin fog of bacteria for the aliens. Where the two territories meet, the air burns with the microscopic battle between the two particle clouds.
When a structure is built, it gradually claims the area around it for its team; filling the air within a certain radius with its team's identifying particle. The observatory, sensory chamber, hive and command chair all claim a greater area than other structures. In addition, the area around uncapped resource nodes is naturally already filled with nanites and is thus marine territory by default.
While this is all well and good, it is little more than a visual fancy unless there is some form of 'bonus' for occupying territory.
Marines:
- marines on their own territory don't show up on Scent of Fear (unless parasited)
- structures on marine territory slowly repair
- wepons dropped in marine territory fade out slower
- <insert other stuff here>
Aliens:
- aliens on their own territory don't show up on motion tracking
- aliens on their own territory regenerate slowly (basically restricting the innate regeneration in current versions of NS to alien territory)
- <insert other stuff here>
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Pretty cool idea. The atmospheric effects would be nice. I think some bonuses while you are in your territory would be nice, also.
Marines:
- marines on their own territory don't show up on Scent of Fear (unless parasited)
I like this idea.
- structures on marine territory slowly repair
Don't like this idea. Would affect balance too much. If the aliens make an organized attack on a structure, their goal is to kill it. If they fail to do so, their efforts are still somewhat paid off by causing however many marines the commander sees fit to weld said structure.
- wepons dropped in marine territory fade out slower
I'm kind of 50/50 on this one. As of now, I beleive it takes 30 seconds for a weapon to disapear. This is more than enough time to retreive the weapon if it is in your territory. As of now, the only way you won't get your weapon back if it is near your territory is if the aliens are guarding it. The aliens are in your territory, you (in theory) should be able to handle them. But the time it takes TO handle them may make the weapon disapear. The aliens purposely did this, and if they succeeded, the marines made a mistake. Adding more time to the weapon-disapearence time would eliminate this possibility for the aliens (for the most part).
An idea of my own is that marines in their own territory should have "nano armor". They should slowly regain armor back. A lot of times if you are in your own territory in the first place, you are guarding. Commanders have to spend their res on the marines who are attacking, most of the time leaving him not enough res to outfit the marines guarding with welders. (even if he did, a lot of the time you will be ALONE guarding, unless the aliens are significantly stronger than you at that point, in which the commander will NEED to spend res on welders for the defenders) So yeah, marines in their own base should slowly regain armor. Not too fast though. A good balance for the time it takes to refill would make it so it is slow, but fast enough that the marine should have full or NEAR full armor by the time to aliens execute another attack. So if the aliens make a mistake and the marine survives, it won't simply be easy pickings next time they try to hit base.
The above idea would be for NS:2 (the version where many new features are added). A good idea for NS:S (which I hope is simply a port over to Source), would to make it so if a marine is near an ARMORY, he regains armor. A little faster than my above idea, but still SOMEWHAT slow. It should be faster because it only works near an armory, and not ANY territory the marines have. I don't think only an advanced armory should provide this benefit, as that late in the game, the aliens are very strong and you will be needing to provide plenty of welders. So either it is just a freebee, or there should be a 5-10 res upgrade at an armory for the ability. I think 5 res would be good, as it first requires an armory itself. Most of the time marines only get an armory in base. It is their base, so they do have advantages (very cheap nano armor upgrade). However, to take advantage of this bonus OUTSIDE of base will require a total of 15 res (which is a lot in the early game for this bonus, a shotgun and welder would be much more effective), the time to build it, and the marines are more vulnerable while building obviously.
Aliens:
- aliens on their own territory don't show up on motion tracking
I don't like this idea. You want aliens to only appear on motion tracking when they are in your territory? You really should know they are there without the motion if they are near your buildings, effectively making this version of MT quite useless.
- aliens on their own territory regenerate slowly (basically restricting the innate regeneration in current versions of NS to alien territory)
Hmm, this idea is not a bad one. It would HURT the aliens, though. If they are in their territory in the first place, they are usually near a hive, a gorge, or an MC which can be used to go back to the hive.
They can also be near an alien RT, though. I think giving aliens regeneration near their RTs would make them too powerful. The extra bullet or however many makes it harder to kill them in the first place, gorges and even skulks doing ring around the RT will be a lot harder to kill, and if the marines fail to kill the RT, their 2nd push will not be as much of a "cleanup" as it is now, and should be. The aliens will be at full strength (or at least strongER).
Now another disadvantage is the innate regeneration is not neseccarily NEEDED, but relied upon in some situations. Fades who are low on HP and trapped by marines need that little bit of extra HP to make their escape. Now you might say that if the fade got himself in that situation, he deserves to die. My counter to this would be that if he is spending his time healing with innate regen (which is slow), he's not doing anything else. Now a good marine team could possibly respond to this and make a very swift push somewhere and take it while the fade is busy.
Don't like this idea. Would affect balance too much. If the aliens make an organized attack on a structure, their goal is to kill it. If they fail to do so, their efforts are still somewhat paid off by causing however many marines the commander sees fit to weld said structure.
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I agree. Like many have said, structures aren't suppose to stop aliens/marines, they're suppose to delay/scare away one or another. If turret factories, RTs, and turrets in a hive gets healed then aliens will have a lot of trouble taking it down slowly or all at once.
If a locked down hive can hold it's own without anyone coming to weld it once in a while, that really changes the gameplay. Especially in smaller games, where aliens can't just charge into a locked down hive and take it out with one run, they must attack and gradually claim that area by destroying structures one by one.
Even one or two aliens can do that, while other aliens will be able to distract the marines at the marine start or so, so marines can't fully guard both places at once.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Aliens:
- aliens on their own territory don't show up on motion tracking
I don't like this idea. You want aliens to only appear on motion tracking when they are in your territory? You really should know they are there without the motion if they are near your buildings, effectively making this version of MT quite useless.
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There will be areas that both teams do not gain control of. At the beginning, aliens will only have their own place at the hive, and marines only at marine start.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->- aliens on their own territory regenerate slowly (basically restricting the innate regeneration in current versions of NS to alien territory)
Hmm, this idea is not a bad one. It would HURT the aliens, though. If they are in their territory in the first place, they are usually near a hive, a gorge, or an MC which can be used to go back to the hive.
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I agree with you. Innate regen should stick with aliens always. If they have to be near alien structures, they're usually near a friendly gorge, DCs, or hive anyway.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Now another disadvantage is the innate regeneration is not neseccarily NEEDED, but relied upon in some situations.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I know it's not needed, but it definately does help aliens, by a lot. Even skulks really do much better with it. As any alien, you may be far away from a hive, but damaged, you can just stick to the area and attempt to attack again, innate regen really helps.
A one hive and unupgraded skulk can take 9 shots. But with innate regen, they'll be able to take 10 more shots in a firefight, and one shot could mean life or death(both marines and aliens).
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->- wepons dropped in marine territory fade out slower<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'd like this idea, but only if it worked in areas near the armory and not all structures in general. But there was a seperate idea for that already with many good reasons.
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- marines on their own territory don't show up on Scent of Fear (unless parasited)
- aliens on their own territory don't show up on motion tracking<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I haven't played a while, but I don't think this will affect much at all. Naturally, most players will assume players will be near their areas and bases and so.
Though it really depends how much area one structure covers though, if a single OC or DC can cover one entire room, then it may weaken MT by a lot.
<b>The concept of this idea is already filled in game. </b>
Marines obviously do better when near their areas. Armories can quickly replenish ammo and health, turrets will be able to give marines back up, electrified stuff helps keep skulks away.
Aliens also, OCs help give aliens back up, MCs restore energy, DCs restore health, SCs give cloaking to aliens and nearby sight to marines.
Okay, not identical, 'cause a creeping slimepudding isn't going to work I think.
I'd like it when there is a creep like it is in StarCraft.
Okay, not identical, 'cause a creeping slimepudding isn't going to work I think.
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I wonder if the creep feature will finally be possible on source.
If for every texturre they made, they had one "Clean" texture, and one "Infested" texture, than maybe the texture's can be swapped on-the-fly, depending on who controls the area?