a_civilianLikes seeing numbersJoin Date: 2003-01-08Member: 12041Members, NS1 Playtester, Playtest Lead
<!--QuoteBegin-LazerMane+Aug 5 2005, 04:26 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (LazerMane @ Aug 5 2005, 04:26 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Take the hand grenade for example. I love to spawn and throw it out of my inventory slot as soon as I can, because all it does is take up space and slow me down when I want to pull out the welder. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Hand grenades (and mines) are in slot 5 now.
<!--QuoteBegin-MrBananaMan+Aug 5 2005, 12:06 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MrBananaMan @ Aug 5 2005, 12:06 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-ModChaosControl+Aug 5 2005, 07:30 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (ModChaosControl @ Aug 5 2005, 07:30 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Taking out cloak would unbalance the game immensly. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> ok well im asking <i>why</i> that is. you guys arent digging deep enough. this is an example response i was looking for:
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Read my post and ye shall understand - cloaking provides A) and would have to be replaced with another equally powerful A) to be viable.
Remember that the game is usually decided in the first few minutes before fades and second hives ever enter the picture. At this point, fade either finish a doomed marine team, or pull of a hail marry - but this is another thread all on its own.
ultra i appreciate the comments but you are looking at a big picture which i am not looking at. i am looking at specific game mechanic and how they interact with other game mechanics and seeing if they are correct.
<!--QuoteBegin-a civilian+Aug 5 2005, 12:33 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (a civilian @ Aug 5 2005, 12:33 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-LazerMane+Aug 5 2005, 04:26 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (LazerMane @ Aug 5 2005, 04:26 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Take the hand grenade for example. I love to spawn and throw it out of my inventory slot as soon as I can, because all it does is take up space and slow me down when I want to pull out the welder. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Hand grenades (and mines) are in slot 5 now. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> im convinced the only reason this was done is to get rid of the "it slows down welder access" jokes
CheeseLork on the ClorfJoin Date: 2003-12-15Member: 24396Members, Constellation
<!--QuoteBegin-MrBananaMan+Aug 5 2005, 03:49 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MrBananaMan @ Aug 5 2005, 03:49 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> ultra i appreciate the comments but you are looking at a big picture which i am not looking at. i am looking at specific game mechanic and how they interact with other game mechanics and seeing if they are correct. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> *eyeroll*
you must have missed out on predator dude. cloaking is vital in any game/movie involving aliens.
seriously though cloaking is fine, who uses it anyways? its pretty much worthless if rines have a decent com who knows how to scan. and if u want to say its a good upgrade i say huzza cause everyone goes cel focus cara (or maybe regen). i mean if u have cloaking u probably haev 2 or 3 hives or you're going to lose cause u got sc first so u can leap so just cel focus leap everyone in those long hallways where u think rines are slaughtering aliens. btw the start of this thread was outstandingly confusing.
<!--QuoteBegin-MrBananaMan+Aug 5 2005, 04:49 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MrBananaMan @ Aug 5 2005, 04:49 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> ultra i appreciate the comments but you are looking at a big picture which i am not looking at. i am looking at specific game mechanic and how they interact with other game mechanics and seeing if they are correct. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Generally when making a thread asking people to think about something....it'd be wise to have some thoughts on the subject yourself to present for discussion.
Of course it didn't help that you phrased your question horribly. I'm guessing you were aiming for something more like, "Does the inclusion and/or necessity of cloaking in NS indicate a lack of balance, because skulks have to be able to completely cloak themselves in order to be on par power level-wise with the average marine."
My response to this is no, for two reasons. 1) Don't think of cloaking there just for balance, it's also a direct counter to marine technology (namely MT). You said that alien tech does not actually counter marine tech; that is just wrong. And 2) Cloak is not nearly as necessary for balance as you think it is. I never take cloak; I prefer the intel of sof tbh. Of course if given the choice of any upgrade I'd take silence.
CheeseLork on the ClorfJoin Date: 2003-12-15Member: 24396Members, Constellation
<!--QuoteBegin-tjosan+Aug 7 2005, 12:44 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (tjosan @ Aug 7 2005, 12:44 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I didnt know cloaking was the counter to MT... I was kind of thinking the opposit. Strange. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> hmm nah...
scan is the counter to cloaking cloaking is the counter to MT
if you dont have cloaking Marines will see you at all times except if you are standing still if you have cloaking and you hold down +speed while moving MT marines wont see you...there is the counter
if you have cloaking and Comm does a scan you arent cloaked any longer and Marines will see you. that is the other counter. MT wont help here if Aliens keep holding +speed.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->i wasnt looking for a response like : cloaking is needed because aliens can camouflage and its fun.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Considering that (last time I checked) Natural Selection is a game, "fun" is certainly a very good reason to have a feature. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-tjosan+Aug 7 2005, 09:50 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (tjosan @ Aug 7 2005, 09:50 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> But if the alien moves it'll show up on MT, regardless of cloaking... with the exception of SC induced cloaking. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> If the alien is cloaked and is holding down +speed it does not show up on motion tracking.
<!--QuoteBegin-Karunel+Aug 7 2005, 12:49 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Karunel @ Aug 7 2005, 12:49 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->i wasnt looking for a response like : cloaking is needed because aliens can camouflage and its fun.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Considering that (last time I checked) Natural Selection is a game, "fun" is certainly a very good reason to have a feature. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> But "fun" doesnt hold up as a reason to keep it though, as has already been demonstrated earlier in this thread.
In other words, this thread is just an excuse for gamma tweakers to whine about how overpowered cloaking is going to be now that it isn't useless against them anymore?
Because if that's the case, I've got a few other neat thread idea's as well...
<!--QuoteBegin-MrBananaMan+Aug 5 2005, 03:06 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MrBananaMan @ Aug 5 2005, 03:06 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> the point of this thread is to get ideas out of you people. ok lets start off easy - why do you think cloaking is needed in this game? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> to kill marine's easily.
it's useful becuase they can't see you; easy kills, easy defense and offense, hiding if being chased, hiding when gorge, better ambush opportunities, and that's all i can think of now.
anyone who's played NS for a <b>week</b> knows this stuff. wth is the point of this thread.
Comments
Hand grenades (and mines) are in slot 5 now.
ok well im asking <i>why</i> that is. you guys arent digging deep enough. this is an example response i was looking for:
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Read my post and ye shall understand - cloaking provides A) and would have to be replaced with another equally powerful A) to be viable.
Remember that the game is usually decided in the first few minutes before fades and second hives ever enter the picture. At this point, fade either finish a doomed marine team, or pull of a hail marry - but this is another thread all on its own.
Hand grenades (and mines) are in slot 5 now. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
im convinced the only reason this was done is to get rid of the "it slows down welder access" jokes
if cloaking should be removed, what do you suggest be added in it's place?
*eyeroll*
give me some too...
seriously though cloaking is fine, who uses it anyways? its pretty much worthless if rines have a decent com who knows how to scan. and if u want to say its a good upgrade i say huzza cause everyone goes cel focus cara (or maybe regen). i mean if u have cloaking u probably haev 2 or 3 hives or you're going to lose cause u got sc first so u can leap so just cel focus leap everyone in those long hallways where u think rines are slaughtering aliens. btw the start of this thread was outstandingly confusing.
Generally when making a thread asking people to think about something....it'd be wise to have some thoughts on the subject yourself to present for discussion.
Of course it didn't help that you phrased your question horribly. I'm guessing you were aiming for something more like, "Does the inclusion and/or necessity of cloaking in NS indicate a lack of balance, because skulks have to be able to completely cloak themselves in order to be on par power level-wise with the average marine."
My response to this is no, for two reasons. 1) Don't think of cloaking there just for balance, it's also a direct counter to marine technology (namely MT). You said that alien tech does not actually counter marine tech; that is just wrong. And 2) Cloak is not nearly as necessary for balance as you think it is. I never take cloak; I prefer the intel of sof tbh. Of course if given the choice of any upgrade I'd take silence.
C: nubs gets kills whiiiiiiiiiiii
hmm nah...
scan is the counter to cloaking
cloaking is the counter to MT
if you dont have cloaking Marines will see you at all times except if you are standing still
if you have cloaking and you hold down +speed while moving MT marines wont see you...there is the counter
if you have cloaking and Comm does a scan you arent cloaked any longer and Marines will see you. that is the other counter. MT wont help here if Aliens keep holding +speed.
Considering that (last time I checked) Natural Selection is a game, "fun" is certainly a very good reason to have a feature. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
If the alien is cloaked and is holding down +speed it does not show up on motion tracking.
Considering that (last time I checked) Natural Selection is a game, "fun" is certainly a very good reason to have a feature. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
But "fun" doesnt hold up as a reason to keep it though, as has already been demonstrated earlier in this thread.
Because if that's the case, I've got a few other neat thread idea's as well...
to kill marine's easily.
it's useful becuase they can't see you; easy kills, easy defense and offense, hiding if being chased, hiding when gorge, better ambush opportunities, and that's all i can think of now.
anyone who's played NS for a <b>week</b> knows this stuff. wth is the point of this thread.