Depot your not gonna be able to defend your extralevels plugin on the competitive forums.
50 level "wombat" is hated by most of the competitive players, and I agree with Zephor in that its a bad thing for competivive NS, because it removes all teamwork aspect needed in competitive NS.
I hope i havent turned this into another "I hate 50 lvl or I hate combat thread..."
tankefuglOne Script To Rule Them All...Trondheim, NorwayJoin Date: 2002-11-14Member: 8641Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited August 2005
<!--QuoteBegin-moultano+Aug 5 2005, 04:46 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (moultano @ Aug 5 2005, 04:46 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-tankefugl+Aug 5 2005, 10:38 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (tankefugl @ Aug 5 2005, 10:38 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> 1. The bottleneck for these balance patches is usually not the coding time (they have been number only changes for now), but rather finding out what to change and why, and the reason for that is that players need to play the game out before anything can be concluded in such a complex environment.
2. Development versions are usually not in a very playable state, as they way too often have huge gamebreaking bugs in them. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> 1. I was under the impression that things like revamping the onos were a lack of coding time. Is this inaccurate?
2. The CAL preseason comes rarely enough that I bet it would be feasible to polish things up temporarily. You'd have to rethink the development processes a little bit, but maybe this is a good thing? You'd have regular milestones to meet for fixing bugs. This would also help if the development model tended towards smaller more regular patches. You could implement 1~2 features, fix the bugs, push it out. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I misunderstood your first question, I somehow didn't read the word "client side".
As for the second one; We've used a pretty tight development process for 3.1, and I am not so sure it is possible to do it even tighter without hitting some really tight bottlenecks for QA and build distribution. I know it sounds like a good idea, but it could be very hard to pull off since all of us working on this is not co-located neither in time nor geographically.
Not saying it'd be impossible, but I'm not sure that's the best way to go.
<!--QuoteBegin-Hassaan+Aug 5 2005, 11:55 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Hassaan @ Aug 5 2005, 11:55 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Depot your not gonna be able to defend your extralevels plugin on the competitive forums.
50 level "wombat" is hated by most of the competitive players, and I agree with Zephor in that its a bad thing for competivive NS, because it removes all teamwork aspect needed in competitive NS. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> not that you really needed me to voice my opinion about massively game altering mods again...
Right now in competitive ns there is no real reason to be one of the best teams... you get nothing (besides sponsorship, but nothing too great)
<!--QuoteBegin-Hassaan+Aug 5 2005, 07:55 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Hassaan @ Aug 5 2005, 07:55 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Depot your not gonna be able to defend your extralevels plugin on the competitive forums.
50 level "wombat" is hated by most of the competitive players, and I agree with Zephor in that its a bad thing for competivive NS, because it removes all teamwork aspect needed in competitive NS.
I hope i havent turned this into another "I hate 50 lvl or I hate combat thread..." <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> The thing with extralevels, is that Depot made it FUN...not balanced or anything relating to competetive play whatsoever. I enjoy it from time to time just when im screwing around, but its on too many servers and because it is so fun, many ppl just keep going back to play that, and most servers running extralevels is combat only, so all these people are getting no ns experience and aren't REALLY learning how to play the game.
I'm not against extralevels, im against how many servers run it and how its run.
I think it should not be possible to make combat only servers!
a_civilianLikes seeing numbersJoin Date: 2003-01-08Member: 12041Members, NS1 Playtester, Playtest Lead
<!--QuoteBegin-Depot+Aug 5 2005, 11:48 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Depot @ Aug 5 2005, 11:48 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Zephor actually made good sense regarding this, until he made his closing statement, "We dont need 18519851985 more level 50 combat servers."
Since extralevels2 coupled with extralevels2_rework is now running on 32.4% of all NS servers, I guess we may as well blame it on the declining clan scene, in addition to the the current decline in ns overall... <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif' /><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> What are the chances that a person who plays only 50-level Combat is going to move on to NS, let alone competitive NS? You cannot deny that it has an effect.
That said, we cannot blame the mod's creators or the admins that run it for creating and running a game that many people like to play. We can only try to make the other options more attractive. And that is what Zephor was asking us to do.
I only mentioned extralevels2 because Zephor had it in his post, inferring it had something to do with the decline of the clan scene. This, of course, is hogwash and non-related.
NS simply does not currently have the competitive clan base to be considered in CPL. How to reform, repair, and grow the NS competitive scene? There is so much potential in Europe, and I just don't understand why the competitive clan scene there is so bad. And CAL has 34 active teams currently? What's up with THAT?
<!--QuoteBegin-Depot+Aug 5 2005, 06:17 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Depot @ Aug 5 2005, 06:17 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> There is so much potential in Europe, and I just don't understand why the competitive clan scene there is so bad. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Its due to the bad name we get from the mid level clans. Something I want to fix.
a_civilianLikes seeing numbersJoin Date: 2003-01-08Member: 12041Members, NS1 Playtester, Playtest Lead
<!--QuoteBegin-Depot+Aug 5 2005, 01:17 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Depot @ Aug 5 2005, 01:17 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I only mentioned extralevels2 because Zephor had it in his post, inferring it had something to do with the decline of the clan scene. This, of course, is hogwash and non-related. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> See my last post if you missed it...
<!--QuoteBegin-Freddeh+Aug 5 2005, 11:48 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Freddeh @ Aug 5 2005, 11:48 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Hassaan+Aug 5 2005, 07:55 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Hassaan @ Aug 5 2005, 07:55 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Depot your not gonna be able to defend your extralevels plugin on the competitive forums.
50 level "wombat" is hated by most of the competitive players, and I agree with Zephor in that its a bad thing for competivive NS, because it removes all teamwork aspect needed in competitive NS.
I hope i havent turned this into another "I hate 50 lvl or I hate combat thread..." <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> The thing with extralevels, is that Depot made it FUN...not balanced or anything relating to competetive play whatsoever. I enjoy it from time to time just when im screwing around, but its on too many servers and because it is so fun, many ppl just keep going back to play that, and most servers running extralevels is combat only, so all these people are getting no ns experience and aren't REALLY learning how to play the game.
I'm not against extralevels, im against how many servers run it and how its run.
I think it should not be possible to make combat only servers! <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> it's only "fun" because everyone besides the one cal player there is terrible at it.
<!--QuoteBegin-joee+Aug 5 2005, 06:34 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (joee @ Aug 5 2005, 06:34 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Depot+Aug 5 2005, 10:48 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Depot @ Aug 5 2005, 10:48 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Zephor actually made good sense regarding this, until he made his closing statement, "We dont need 18519851985 more level 50 combat servers."
Since extralevels2 coupled with extralevels2_rework is now running on 32.4% of all NS servers, I guess we may as well blame it on the declining clan scene, in addition to the the current decline in ns overall... <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> don't post in this forum <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Please joee, add to the stereotype they have of us more.
Why blatantly attack him for airing his concerns or views?
TheAdjHe demanded a cool forum title of some type.Join Date: 2004-05-03Member: 28436Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation
<!--QuoteBegin-tankefugl+Aug 5 2005, 08:58 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (tankefugl @ Aug 5 2005, 08:58 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-tjosan+Aug 5 2005, 02:35 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (tjosan @ Aug 5 2005, 02:35 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Dumb the game down. Yes I hate the thought of it too, but that's the only way to make the game popular to the mainstream audience (and with that popularity comes the money). NS is nowhere close to a streamlined game. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I personally believe you have a very valid point. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> "dumbing the game down" won't make it more streamlined, unless by steamlined you mean easier for 6 year olds (or people with equivalent brain functions to 6 year olds) to play without having to ask mommy to help them. Blizzard has very successful RTS games that are anything but simple, yet once people understand the mechanics, they are fairly easy to play, yet impossible to master. NS has the problem of having an oft-clunky interface system that nowhere comes close to the clean, mostly bugless interface of more successful games (Compare the commander interface to the SC/BW or WC3/TFT GUI). There are bug or balance issues that quite frankly would have been fixed earlier by a company that makes money off the product. One expects too much from the development team if they expect NS to emulate the quality of professional, made for money games that compete in the CPL.
The game concept is too complex for Johnny FPSer to pick up and play, yet not readily noticed by the people who one should want playing the game. I've always thought the target audience for a game like NS should be hardcore RTSers, because they'll make some of the best players. Throw in people with great FPS skills and you have a competitive team in the making. It's not the game complexity that will make it more popular, changing the target audience from mainly FPS players to RTS players will make it more popular.
[Edit] Of course by "dumbing down" I meant making the game easier to pick up and play and have fun as a totally new player to the game, and making the step to competetive play not involve changing games all together.
That in turn means either public play needs to be change to play more like competetive play, or competetive play being restricted/made less cumbersome.
An example would be to restrict the number of players on a team to 6, regardless of mp_tournament mode or not. Another being including a period at the start of the game where people apply to play commander and gets voted on.
A radical example of "dumbing down" the game is to lock upgrades to hives directly and remove, or rework upgrade chambers as well as removing the levels of upgrades. Say you play it like combat. At hive 1 you chose one upgrade and get it at level 3, and keep it even though you die with no way of changing it. At hive two you can chose another and at third hive a third upgrade. Then having chambers only give their chamber related abilities, and being unlocked from hives. This of course is nothing I'd advocate, but it works as an example of how to make the game simpler to just pick up and play. The concept of having to build three chambers each time a hive is dropped for example is one extra obstacle i the way to make NS a game "simple to learn, hard to master" instead of the current "hard to learn, hard to master". [/edit]
[Edit2] Actually at the moment I'd say NS is a game "hard to learn easy to master" since the lack of a good community and in turn adequate competition really negates the need to improve oneself past a certain level. By increasing the size of the community the need to push yourself to the next level would become greater, and a step towards making the game "hard to master" has been made. [Edit2]
<!--QuoteBegin-SLOT+Aug 5 2005, 09:40 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SLOT @ Aug 5 2005, 09:40 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I was thinking... NS needs some advertisement in games sites, to reach the CPL tournament ...
we need to advertise more, personally, I never saw an advertisement of NS in another sites like OZFORCES or GAMESPY sites... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Actually I LOVE this suggestion. When NS goes to My Games, why not ask gamespy, gamespot, bluesnews, and IGN do a review on the 'finished' game. It will get A LOT of publicity. FREE GAME THAT IS FUN OMGOMGOM DOWNLOADL DOWNLOAD DOWNLOAD. I think the game is ready for a surge of 80000 players, I'm not sure the community is ready to accept them though.
If you're whining about how there is no link between competitive players and devs why not PM some of the competitive players that are PTs or Devs? If you're not coming off as completely retarded they will answer your question. Whining in a public forum to other members wont get a lot done but if you really have a serious question and you really put some thought in it, then I for one will at least do my part and help you get that idea known to the devs. Whether you know it or not, the I&S forums is actually the best place to address your balance changes.
<!--QuoteBegin-DarkFrost+Aug 5 2005, 12:40 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DarkFrost @ Aug 5 2005, 12:40 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-joee+Aug 5 2005, 06:34 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (joee @ Aug 5 2005, 06:34 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Depot+Aug 5 2005, 10:48 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Depot @ Aug 5 2005, 10:48 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Zephor actually made good sense regarding this, until he made his closing statement, "We dont need 18519851985 more level 50 combat servers."
Since extralevels2 coupled with extralevels2_rework is now running on 32.4% of all NS servers, I guess we may as well blame it on the declining clan scene, in addition to the the current decline in ns overall... <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> don't post in this forum <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Please joee, add to the stereotype they have of us more.
Why blatantly attack him for airing his concerns or views? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> because nobody really even brought up whatever dumb plugins combat servers use
really i could care less if they use them or not but he's <b>trying</b> to play victim
moultanoCreator of ns_shiva.Join Date: 2002-12-14Member: 10806Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
<!--QuoteBegin-Firewater+Aug 5 2005, 02:08 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Firewater @ Aug 5 2005, 02:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> 80,000 people is quite an exaggeration. Isn't ricochet a my games game? How many people play that? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> A lot fewer than tried it when it first came out.
Well, what exactly does the competitive community think needs to be done, both in game and out in order to alleviate this stagnation/dying? Can the demands of the competitive community be met without making the game near impossible for newcomers?
1. Components of NS balance are HL engine quirks. Bunnyhopping and pancaking are probably the two best examples. Should knowledge of various engine quirks/flaws/loopholes be included in the balance of the game?
2. From what base would the clan scene recruit from? It's already been made clear that combat players are unacceptable as competitive players. NS isn't a big game to begin with and the fact that the learning curve is so steep in NS makes combat, with its faster gameplay and less emphasis on teamwork, very popular. Removing combat would likely mean some more people playing classic, but it would also mean a smaller number of players.
3. What in-game changes are necessary for NS to be acceptable to both public and competitive play? As it is, the learning curve is so steep and community skill levels so stratified that the transition from new player to competitive level is rocky, at best. If you give a fade to NSPlayer, it's a waste of res and they won't be able to use it effectively at all. Give a fade to Mustang or Civilian and watch them grind the entire marine team to a halt. Should the level of play between relatively new player and competitive player be so extreme?
Personally, I'd like to see the community get along better where changes aren't made for either pubs or clanners. If you look at DoD, most of the community agrees with changes that are made. When they changed the Garand a bit ago, it was embraced by the entire community since it made the weapon more viable for everybody. If you look at the Kar, both newbie and clanner can use it but the clanner will be able to take advantage of other variables like strafe shooting and use their experience to their advantage by knowing likely routes of approach and when to camp or move up. The difference is certainly noticable, but not so extreme as NS.
<!--QuoteBegin-joee+Aug 5 2005, 03:08 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (joee @ Aug 5 2005, 03:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-DarkFrost+Aug 5 2005, 12:40 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DarkFrost @ Aug 5 2005, 12:40 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-joee+Aug 5 2005, 06:34 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (joee @ Aug 5 2005, 06:34 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Depot+Aug 5 2005, 10:48 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Depot @ Aug 5 2005, 10:48 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Zephor actually made good sense regarding this, until he made his closing statement, "We dont need 18519851985 more level 50 combat servers."
Since extralevels2 coupled with extralevels2_rework is now running on 32.4% of all NS servers, I guess we may as well blame it on the declining clan scene, in addition to the the current decline in ns overall... <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> don't post in this forum <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Please joee, add to the stereotype they have of us more.
Why blatantly attack him for airing his concerns or views? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> because nobody really even brought up whatever dumb plugins combat servers use
really i could care less if they use them or not but he's <b>trying</b> to play victim<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> So Zephor is nobody? The only reason I replied was to dispute his claim that extralevels2 had anything whatsoever to do with this topic.
<!--QuoteBegin-The Finch Aug 5 2005+ 03:17 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (The Finch Aug 5 2005 @ 03:17 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> 2. From what base would the clan scene recruit from? It's already been made clear that combat players are unacceptable as competitive players.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> They can't jump directly from one to the other without making adjustments, but it's hardly true they're not acceptable as competitive players.
Look, let's be blunt here. The number one reason why NS isn't even close to a CPL-worthy mod right now is the stats. There simply aren't enough people playing this game, much less enough clans playing this game competitively. I've said it before, and I'll say it again... the playerbase <b>needs</b> to increase. Don't try to blame it on stupid **** like "well, I once tried to scrim and this one player that nobody has ever heard of was really mean to me and I got sad and...". Have you guys ever played CS? Biggest bunch of **** I've seen... the only people who act professional are the CAL-I players and even then there's still a fistfight every year at CPL. I really refuse to believe that we're "not nice enough". I'll tell you right now though, I've never seen a member from a top clan be an **** to a new competitive player. I have, however, seen the effects of a slow dev cycle, devs who can't keep promises, and devs/representatives who outright dismiss clan play as something that should be included in mp_blockscripts 1. Things like mp_blockscripts 1 and the ever-agonizing fact that the devs <b>fail to take a hard line on such subjects</b> has a detrimental effect on the gameplay quality and the community. Not to blame the current stagnation completely on the devs... but there's definitely a correlation here. Bottom line is that we are going to have to wait and see what mygames does for NS. If it doesn't do anything then that's the final nail in the coffin. NS will be, for all practical purposes, <b>a dead mod</b>. The only thing left for it would be NS:S, which may or may not have a rejuvenating effect.
Hsu: PKTV was outsourced by the CPL to one "#toast productions", genius.
PPS: Anybody remember the "What needs to happen" thread by Nadagast?
<!--QuoteBegin-Depot+Aug 5 2005, 02:27 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Depot @ Aug 5 2005, 02:27 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-joee+Aug 5 2005, 03:08 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (joee @ Aug 5 2005, 03:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-DarkFrost+Aug 5 2005, 12:40 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DarkFrost @ Aug 5 2005, 12:40 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-joee+Aug 5 2005, 06:34 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (joee @ Aug 5 2005, 06:34 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Depot+Aug 5 2005, 10:48 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Depot @ Aug 5 2005, 10:48 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Zephor actually made good sense regarding this, until he made his closing statement, "We dont need 18519851985 more level 50 combat servers."
Since extralevels2 coupled with extralevels2_rework is now running on 32.4% of all NS servers, I guess we may as well blame it on the declining clan scene, in addition to the the current decline in ns overall... <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> don't post in this forum <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Please joee, add to the stereotype they have of us more.
Why blatantly attack him for airing his concerns or views? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> because nobody really even brought up whatever dumb plugins combat servers use
really i could care less if they use them or not but he's <b>trying</b> to play victim<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> So Zephor is nobody? The only reason I replied was to dispute his claim that extralevels2 had anything whatsoever to do with this topic.
<!--QuoteBegin-The Finch Aug 5 2005+ 03:17 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (The Finch Aug 5 2005 @ 03:17 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> 2. From what base would the clan scene recruit from? It's already been made clear that combat players are unacceptable as competitive players.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> They can't jump directly from one to the other without making adjustments, but it's hardly true they're not acceptable as competitive players. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> oh god he mentioned that 50 levels combat isn't helping TO THE FORUMS I MUST DEFEND IT
jmms...shut up, while you brought up good points, you were also being a doomsayer of ns at the same time, that doesn't help, nor does your "OGM THE DEVS ARE KILLING NS BY SEEMINGLY DOING NOTHING!!" comments (note: exaggeration).
jmms...shut up, while you brought up good points, you were also being a doomsayer of ns at the same time, that doesn't help, nor does your "OGM THE DEVS ARE KILLING NS BY SEEMINGLY DOING NOTHING!!" comments (note: exaggeration). <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> My business is to lay out the facts and tell the truth, not to make people feel good.
<!--QuoteBegin-Hellabeans+Aug 4 2005, 11:06 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Hellabeans @ Aug 4 2005, 11:06 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> not to go on another endless rant..but a vet-like program would definately help ns..maybe even with a different set of balance things to have it play better for 6v6 than pubs...that way both pubbers and clanners can have ns balanced for them
Its not a total fix..but would help. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> No. To many **** would have vet like what happened before.
As far as the upper tier clans being mean to new clans, I know for a fact that {LoC} is not this way.
Whenever we scrim a new team, we always tell them how to improve and what they are doing wrong. We dont spawn camp for 2 days and or wait to get 3 hives so we can acid rocket the base.
I know of a few other teams that are the same way. There are some clans and I wont mention names that are relentless and can't wait to scrim new teams just to break their spirit and humiliate them.
As Jmms said this community is not too mean. This is by far one of the nicest communities around. Try being a newb in CS and see how fun it is. Or being a new clan in CS and scrimming nothing but Cal-M/P clans posing as Cal-O.
The game will either be saved by My games, if it ever happens or it will be the same and eventually die. I myself do not want to see this mod die.
I also know one other thing. When I'm on a pub and some newb needs or asks for help, I'm there to lend a hand. Maybe some of you should try the same and see if that would help the community grow.
By the way if you are a pubber and you are looking to become competitive stop by #farmteams on mIRC gamesurge. The channel is open to all clans that are recruiting now, not to just Farmteams. Pm an Op for info.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->So, I propose we re-open discussions on how to reform, repair, and grow the NS competitive scene. What's going wrong and how do we fix the problems? If NASA can do it, we can do it. Let's go. Talk:<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Like Jmms (et al) have said, the playerbase should grow.
Here's something else: what happened to #nslearn and #nspickup? Those were supposed to "bridge the gap" between the two worlds. When was the last time anyone here played a pug? We spend all our time on NSAV saving res to go fade. And about #nslearn: even if the people who used it didn't make total use of the information, they at least had the chance to talk to and interact with good players. Its decline was unfortunate but what was REALLY unfortunate was that there was no one to step in and replace it as quickly as #nspug was replaced.
I'd like to hear a developer's perspective on #nslearn, #nspickup, and #farmteams.
I agree, #nspickup has been pretty stagnate. I've been thinking about trying to restart it over the last few days, but I'd need a lot of pug-joining help from everybody.
More importantly: Over the last few weeks I've been considering writing up some kind of "Beginner's Guide to Competitive NS", to help deslope the learning curve a little bit. Unfortunately, I am currently tied up in another project, but I'd love to get this done before NS ever hits mygames. If you want to help, post/pm/whatever me... it'll cover the basics of 6v6 gameplay, and some more advanced tips as well.
Comments
50 level "wombat" is hated by most of the competitive players, and I agree with Zephor in that its a bad thing for competivive NS, because it removes all teamwork aspect needed in competitive NS.
I hope i havent turned this into another "I hate 50 lvl or I hate combat thread..."
2. Development versions are usually not in a very playable state, as they way too often have huge gamebreaking bugs in them. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
1. I was under the impression that things like revamping the onos were a lack of coding time. Is this inaccurate?
2. The CAL preseason comes rarely enough that I bet it would be feasible to polish things up temporarily. You'd have to rethink the development processes a little bit, but maybe this is a good thing? You'd have regular milestones to meet for fixing bugs. This would also help if the development model tended towards smaller more regular patches. You could implement 1~2 features, fix the bugs, push it out. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I misunderstood your first question, I somehow didn't read the word "client side".
As for the second one; We've used a pretty tight development process for 3.1, and I am not so sure it is possible to do it even tighter without hitting some really tight bottlenecks for QA and build distribution. I know it sounds like a good idea, but it could be very hard to pull off since all of us working on this is not co-located neither in time nor geographically.
Not saying it'd be impossible, but I'm not sure that's the best way to go.
50 level "wombat" is hated by most of the competitive players, and I agree with Zephor in that its a bad thing for competivive NS, because it removes all teamwork aspect needed in competitive NS. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
not that you really needed me to voice my opinion about massively game altering mods again...
Right now in competitive ns there is no real reason to be one of the best teams... you get nothing (besides sponsorship, but nothing too great)
50 level "wombat" is hated by most of the competitive players, and I agree with Zephor in that its a bad thing for competivive NS, because it removes all teamwork aspect needed in competitive NS.
I hope i havent turned this into another "I hate 50 lvl or I hate combat thread..." <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
The thing with extralevels, is that Depot made it FUN...not balanced or anything relating to competetive play whatsoever. I enjoy it from time to time just when im screwing around, but its on too many servers and because it is so fun, many ppl just keep going back to play that, and most servers running extralevels is combat only, so all these people are getting no ns experience and aren't REALLY learning how to play the game.
I'm not against extralevels, im against how many servers run it and how its run.
I think it should not be possible to make combat only servers!
Since extralevels2 coupled with extralevels2_rework is now running on 32.4% of all NS servers, I guess we may as well blame it on the declining clan scene, in addition to the the current decline in ns overall... <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif' /><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What are the chances that a person who plays only 50-level Combat is going to move on to NS, let alone competitive NS? You cannot deny that it has an effect.
That said, we cannot blame the mod's creators or the admins that run it for creating and running a game that many people like to play. We can only try to make the other options more attractive. And that is what Zephor was asking us to do.
NS simply does not currently have the competitive clan base to be considered in CPL. How to reform, repair, and grow the NS competitive scene? There is so much potential in Europe, and I just don't understand why the competitive clan scene there is so bad. And CAL has 34 active teams currently? What's up with THAT?
Its due to the bad name we get from the mid level clans. Something I want to fix.
See my last post if you missed it...
50 level "wombat" is hated by most of the competitive players, and I agree with Zephor in that its a bad thing for competivive NS, because it removes all teamwork aspect needed in competitive NS.
I hope i havent turned this into another "I hate 50 lvl or I hate combat thread..." <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The thing with extralevels, is that Depot made it FUN...not balanced or anything relating to competetive play whatsoever. I enjoy it from time to time just when im screwing around, but its on too many servers and because it is so fun, many ppl just keep going back to play that, and most servers running extralevels is combat only, so all these people are getting no ns experience and aren't REALLY learning how to play the game.
I'm not against extralevels, im against how many servers run it and how its run.
I think it should not be possible to make combat only servers! <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
it's only "fun" because everyone besides the one cal player there is terrible at it.
one good player throws the balance to ****
NS needs some advertisement in games sites, to reach the CPL tournament ...
we need to advertise more, personally, I never saw an advertisement of NS in another sites like OZFORCES or GAMESPY sites...
When NS will better divulged we will have a chance to get in the CPL!
And another thing, NS have 193786492437692862398655293786 updates !
How can a game with an update at every month stay in CPL ??
<!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/nerd-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
STILL WAITING ns in my games list...
<!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Since extralevels2 coupled with extralevels2_rework is now running on 32.4% of all NS servers, I guess we may as well blame it on the declining clan scene, in addition to the the current decline in ns overall... <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
don't post in this forum <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Please joee, add to the stereotype they have of us more.
Why blatantly attack him for airing his concerns or views?
I personally believe you have a very valid point. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
"dumbing the game down" won't make it more streamlined, unless by steamlined you mean easier for 6 year olds (or people with equivalent brain functions to 6 year olds) to play without having to ask mommy to help them. Blizzard has very successful RTS games that are anything but simple, yet once people understand the mechanics, they are fairly easy to play, yet impossible to master. NS has the problem of having an oft-clunky interface system that nowhere comes close to the clean, mostly bugless interface of more successful games (Compare the commander interface to the SC/BW or WC3/TFT GUI). There are bug or balance issues that quite frankly would have been fixed earlier by a company that makes money off the product. One expects too much from the development team if they expect NS to emulate the quality of professional, made for money games that compete in the CPL.
The game concept is too complex for Johnny FPSer to pick up and play, yet not readily noticed by the people who one should want playing the game. I've always thought the target audience for a game like NS should be hardcore RTSers, because they'll make some of the best players. Throw in people with great FPS skills and you have a competitive team in the making. It's not the game complexity that will make it more popular, changing the target audience from mainly FPS players to RTS players will make it more popular.
[Edit]
Of course by "dumbing down" I meant making the game easier to pick up and play and have fun as a totally new player to the game, and making the step to competetive play not involve changing games all together.
That in turn means either public play needs to be change to play more like competetive play, or competetive play being restricted/made less cumbersome.
An example would be to restrict the number of players on a team to 6, regardless of mp_tournament mode or not. Another being including a period at the start of the game where people apply to play commander and gets voted on.
A radical example of "dumbing down" the game is to lock upgrades to hives directly and remove, or rework upgrade chambers as well as removing the levels of upgrades. Say you play it like combat. At hive 1 you chose one upgrade and get it at level 3, and keep it even though you die with no way of changing it. At hive two you can chose another and at third hive a third upgrade. Then having chambers only give their chamber related abilities, and being unlocked from hives. This of course is nothing I'd advocate, but it works as an example of how to make the game simpler to just pick up and play. The concept of having to build three chambers each time a hive is dropped for example is one extra obstacle i the way to make NS a game "simple to learn, hard to master" instead of the current "hard to learn, hard to master".
[/edit]
[Edit2]
Actually at the moment I'd say NS is a game "hard to learn easy to master" since the lack of a good community and in turn adequate competition really negates the need to improve oneself past a certain level. By increasing the size of the community the need to push yourself to the next level would become greater, and a step towards making the game "hard to master" has been made.
[Edit2]
NS needs some advertisement in games sites, to reach the CPL tournament ...
we need to advertise more, personally, I never saw an advertisement of NS in another sites like OZFORCES or GAMESPY sites...
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually I LOVE this suggestion. When NS goes to My Games, why not ask gamespy, gamespot, bluesnews, and IGN do a review on the 'finished' game. It will get A LOT of publicity. FREE GAME THAT IS FUN OMGOMGOM DOWNLOADL DOWNLOAD DOWNLOAD. I think the game is ready for a surge of 80000 players, I'm not sure the community is ready to accept them though.
If you're whining about how there is no link between competitive players and devs why not PM some of the competitive players that are PTs or Devs? If you're not coming off as completely retarded they will answer your question. Whining in a public forum to other members wont get a lot done but if you really have a serious question and you really put some thought in it, then I for one will at least do my part and help you get that idea known to the devs. Whether you know it or not, the I&S forums is actually the best place to address your balance changes.
Since extralevels2 coupled with extralevels2_rework is now running on 32.4% of all NS servers, I guess we may as well blame it on the declining clan scene, in addition to the the current decline in ns overall... <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
don't post in this forum <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Please joee, add to the stereotype they have of us more.
Why blatantly attack him for airing his concerns or views? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
because nobody really even brought up whatever dumb plugins combat servers use
really i could care less if they use them or not but he's <b>trying</b> to play victim
A lot fewer than tried it when it first came out.
1. Components of NS balance are HL engine quirks. Bunnyhopping and pancaking are probably the two best examples. Should knowledge of various engine quirks/flaws/loopholes be included in the balance of the game?
2. From what base would the clan scene recruit from? It's already been made clear that combat players are unacceptable as competitive players. NS isn't a big game to begin with and the fact that the learning curve is so steep in NS makes combat, with its faster gameplay and less emphasis on teamwork, very popular. Removing combat would likely mean some more people playing classic, but it would also mean a smaller number of players.
3. What in-game changes are necessary for NS to be acceptable to both public and competitive play? As it is, the learning curve is so steep and community skill levels so stratified that the transition from new player to competitive level is rocky, at best. If you give a fade to NSPlayer, it's a waste of res and they won't be able to use it effectively at all. Give a fade to Mustang or Civilian and watch them grind the entire marine team to a halt. Should the level of play between relatively new player and competitive player be so extreme?
Personally, I'd like to see the community get along better where changes aren't made for either pubs or clanners. If you look at DoD, most of the community agrees with changes that are made. When they changed the Garand a bit ago, it was embraced by the entire community since it made the weapon more viable for everybody. If you look at the Kar, both newbie and clanner can use it but the clanner will be able to take advantage of other variables like strafe shooting and use their experience to their advantage by knowing likely routes of approach and when to camp or move up. The difference is certainly noticable, but not so extreme as NS.
Since extralevels2 coupled with extralevels2_rework is now running on 32.4% of all NS servers, I guess we may as well blame it on the declining clan scene, in addition to the the current decline in ns overall... <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
don't post in this forum <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Please joee, add to the stereotype they have of us more.
Why blatantly attack him for airing his concerns or views? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
because nobody really even brought up whatever dumb plugins combat servers use
really i could care less if they use them or not but he's <b>trying</b> to play victim<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So Zephor is nobody? The only reason I replied was to dispute his claim that extralevels2 had anything whatsoever to do with this topic.
<!--QuoteBegin-The Finch Aug 5 2005+ 03:17 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (The Finch Aug 5 2005 @ 03:17 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
2. From what base would the clan scene recruit from? It's already been made clear that combat players are unacceptable as competitive players.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
They can't jump directly from one to the other without making adjustments, but it's hardly true they're not acceptable as competitive players.
Hsu: PKTV was outsourced by the CPL to one "#toast productions", genius.
PPS: Anybody remember the "What needs to happen" thread by Nadagast?
Since extralevels2 coupled with extralevels2_rework is now running on 32.4% of all NS servers, I guess we may as well blame it on the declining clan scene, in addition to the the current decline in ns overall... <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
don't post in this forum <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Please joee, add to the stereotype they have of us more.
Why blatantly attack him for airing his concerns or views? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
because nobody really even brought up whatever dumb plugins combat servers use
really i could care less if they use them or not but he's <b>trying</b> to play victim<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So Zephor is nobody? The only reason I replied was to dispute his claim that extralevels2 had anything whatsoever to do with this topic.
<!--QuoteBegin-The Finch Aug 5 2005+ 03:17 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (The Finch Aug 5 2005 @ 03:17 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
2. From what base would the clan scene recruit from? It's already been made clear that combat players are unacceptable as competitive players.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
They can't jump directly from one to the other without making adjustments, but it's hardly true they're not acceptable as competitive players. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
oh god he mentioned that 50 levels combat isn't helping TO THE FORUMS I MUST DEFEND IT
jmms...shut up, while you brought up good points, you were also being a doomsayer of ns at the same time, that doesn't help, nor does your "OGM THE DEVS ARE KILLING NS BY SEEMINGLY DOING NOTHING!!" comments (note: exaggeration).
jmms...shut up, while you brought up good points, you were also being a doomsayer of ns at the same time, that doesn't help, nor does your "OGM THE DEVS ARE KILLING NS BY SEEMINGLY DOING NOTHING!!" comments (note: exaggeration). <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
My business is to lay out the facts and tell the truth, not to make people feel good.
Its not a total fix..but would help. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
No. To many **** would have vet like what happened before.
Whenever we scrim a new team, we always tell them how to improve and what they are doing wrong. We dont spawn camp for 2 days and or wait to get 3 hives so we can acid rocket the base.
I know of a few other teams that are the same way. There are some clans and I wont mention names that are relentless and can't wait to scrim new teams just to break their spirit and humiliate them.
As Jmms said this community is not too mean. This is by far one of the nicest communities around. Try being a newb in CS and see how fun it is. Or being a new clan in CS and scrimming nothing but Cal-M/P clans posing as Cal-O.
The game will either be saved by My games, if it ever happens or it will be the same and eventually die. I myself do not want to see this mod die.
I also know one other thing. When I'm on a pub and some newb needs or asks for help, I'm there to lend a hand. Maybe some of you should try the same and see if that would help the community grow.
By the way if you are a pubber and you are looking to become competitive stop by #farmteams on mIRC gamesurge. The channel is open to all clans that are recruiting now, not to just Farmteams. Pm an Op for info.
Yes I know shameless plug but it was relivant.
Like Jmms (et al) have said, the playerbase should grow.
Here's something else: what happened to #nslearn and #nspickup? Those were supposed to "bridge the gap" between the two worlds. When was the last time anyone here played a pug? We spend all our time on NSAV saving res to go fade. And about #nslearn: even if the people who used it didn't make total use of the information, they at least had the chance to talk to and interact with good players. Its decline was unfortunate but what was REALLY unfortunate was that there was no one to step in and replace it as quickly as #nspug was replaced.
I'd like to hear a developer's perspective on #nslearn, #nspickup, and #farmteams.
More importantly: Over the last few weeks I've been considering writing up some kind of "Beginner's Guide to Competitive NS", to help deslope the learning curve a little bit. Unfortunately, I am currently tied up in another project, but I'd love to get this done before NS ever hits mygames. If you want to help, post/pm/whatever me... it'll cover the basics of 6v6 gameplay, and some more advanced tips as well.