Cs Vs Ns
Incitatus
Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 4316Members
Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 4316Members
<div class="IPBDescription">just a couple of observations</div> There's a lot of comparing CS to NS going around on these boards. Most people see the CS community as an immature fragfest, but then that 's what it is. Or rather what it has become. Most people look at the NS community and see a heaven of mature players working together to achieve their goal, not quite true but close enough.
What most people forget, or don't know, is that the CS comm in the early days (beta 1 not version 1) was as mature or even better than the NS comm is now. CS in the early days never grew as fast as NS is doing now only a few weeks after it's release. Therefore I see the same things that happened to CS comm now happening in the NS comm, only much much faster. Especially in these forums.
So my word of advise would be not to look at the CS comm and scoff and laugh at it, but to learn the lessons and then take a close look at the NS comm. It is happening guys, you can only do your best to try and avoid it.
p.s Don't be so stupid as to compare gameplay they are totally different games.
What most people forget, or don't know, is that the CS comm in the early days (beta 1 not version 1) was as mature or even better than the NS comm is now. CS in the early days never grew as fast as NS is doing now only a few weeks after it's release. Therefore I see the same things that happened to CS comm now happening in the NS comm, only much much faster. Especially in these forums.
So my word of advise would be not to look at the CS comm and scoff and laugh at it, but to learn the lessons and then take a close look at the NS comm. It is happening guys, you can only do your best to try and avoid it.
p.s Don't be so stupid as to compare gameplay they are totally different games.
Comments
CS <i>was</i> good. CS still <i>is</i> good from a pure gameplay standpoint. But the players and community ruined it for the public. Hopefully that will never happen to NS...
Hopefully that wont happen due to the nature of the game. I enjoy CS where it is right now as the number one mod, because it draws away at least half of the stupid people from other, more precious mods.
It has to have a playerbase, playing an increadible mod all by yourself wouldn't be any good, but there is a point where it goes from a modest playerbase to a mass of random people.
By the way, even CS isn't bad in the best of play, its just, that rarly happens, since the sheer number of players and servers make finding a good game like finding a steel particle in a haystack.
Most of the griefers in games don't care to play in a clan or on a team because they don't want to listen to anyone. I see the same thing happening in NS. I would hate to play NS on public servers on a regular basis. I would kill myself. Go for the organized gaming. You'll love it ten times more.
Second, the only way to get an organized game is to play with clans, who have completely lost the point of playing for fun. They're still immature tools, they just have a bigger **obscenity** about winning all the time so they might have a chance at getting money. And even still, "organized" is a loose term when speaking about CS clans, even the "pro" ones. The only thing that actually happens on a regular schedule over there is the clanhopping.
But, your last point is quite a good one. One of the things that made CS so intolerable is that there were constantly people thinking that CS should be more of a DM game, and pushed for it to become such. Just as the concepts of tactical shooter and deathmatch are different, the concepts if tactical shooter and FPS/RTS hybrid are also different. Leave your CS experience behind. You're not in Kansas anymore.
Hopefully with the steeper learning curve than CS would've ever had, we'll attract people who have actually adopted a policy of thinking in their lives, and thus we'll get the cream of the crop, ie. no whiny 12 year olds, hackers, idiots.
Why I Dislike CS.
by coil.
1) Rounds are three minutes or less (usually 1-2). The amount of depth to be found in 3 minutes of gameplay is insufficient to drown an anorexic, two-dimensional baby midget.
2) Repeating the same 1-2 minutes 25 times takes it from "shallow" to "mind-numbing."
3) There are a *few* weapons in the game that are simply better than any of the others; therefore, these are the only weapons ever used. As is true of the gameplay, there is no variation in weapon choice.
4) It claims to be a teamplay mod, but is not. It is team deathmatch. This means:
a) A single player with enough skill can win a round single-handedly.
b) Therefore, players try to carry the server, thereby eliminating any last chance for teamplay elements.
5) The two teams are essentially differently skinned copies. Only a few weapons are unique to one side or another.
6) The community is comprised primarily of whining brainless idiots too absorbed in their own score to remember that it's supposed to be fun.
Now, don't get me wrong... in the right circumstances, CS can be quite fun. EC Clan practices are enjoyable. But it's still just team DM, and after about 90 minutes my brain starts to melt from the repetition.
Comparatively, Natural Selection:
1) Games last from 5 minutes to over an hour, averaging around 30 minutes. The battles fought over the enormous maps provide a *limitless* number of unique experiences. If you doubt me, I ask you why the "Frontlines" thread has 77 pages on it, when only about 15-20 playtesters post stories in it.
2) Generally, you will play a map once or twice before cycling. Boredom does not happen.
3) Every weapon has a time and a place to be used. Even when aliens have 3 hives, a skulk will still find use for his bite. Even when the commander has access to HMGs, GLs, Heavy Armor, and Jetpacks; a LMG-carrying marine can still fill an essential scout role.
4) It is true teamplay. Scores do not matter; the only thing that matters is which TEAM is left standing.
a) A lone marine will not last long.
b) Aliens provide a venue for the DMers among us; they have scores and can effectively fight solo (since retreating for healing, managing RPs, etc is entirely individual).
5) Not only are the teams different; there is virtually no overlap between the two teams in terms of abilities. Gameplay is unique depending which side you are playing.
6) We can only hope. I have a feeling the complexity and the required teamplay will provide NS with a generally more intelligent and less llamatastic community.
I'd rather watch a picture of a Gorge's foot for 3 days than play a minute of CS.
I take issue with some of coil's criticisms of CS, but he brings up many relevent points.
I would disagree with his judgment of weapons choices, although I have never played CS at a "very elite" level. For pubbing/mediocre clanning, I have found uses for almost every weapon in the game.
I think many people forget that CS is simply a very popular game, and the law of averages has taken over - when thousands and thousands of people play a game, there <b>will</b> be lamers/griefers among them. Deal with it, because it's already present in NS.
YEA THE GRETAST QUOTE EVER
You have the m4, the de, the ak and the MP5, and the Sig Commando. I used to mix a little bit of P90 and m3 into the mix, but anything other than that is not a great choice at clan level, from my experience.
Very true. I am shamelessly 14 years old. I don't pretend to be twenty, and if I play with intelligent tactics and don't use more numbers than letters in my sentences, no one disrespects me. The ones who give us younger players such a bad rap are the "h4x0rz", campers, llamas, etc. The ones who join a game solely to curse their heads off or to harass the commander for HA and an hmg when it is obvious he has none. I'm not responsible for these people, and other players are starting to realize that.
And therefore don't know how really great the CS comm was, and look what it is now.
The same thing will and is happening to NS.
I'm not talking about the clan scene that is a completely different story, although not improving I must say.
But I still have lots of fun in CS with my clan and a few regulars on the server.
I just hope NS doesn't grow in the same way CS did.
I also don't think NS has a much steaper learning curve than CS. CS is really hard if you want to be really good.
NS is simply less prone to quick thrills than CS, that might save it.
Yes, but CS is easy if you want to be pretty good. NS is hard if you want to be pretty good.
hmmm where have I heard that before... "if played right" oh yeah! NS is only good "if played right" The mod itself is fine, but the downfall is that the vast userbase has fogged the gameplay tricks that used to be so good. I've been playing for a little over a year now, and once you find a good pub and stick with it (been playing on the same sever for 6 months now) it's a very nice experience.
Yes, teamplay happens on pubs. Voice comm is there for more than playing music over (wha?) and serves a very good tool. I can tell you from experience, teamplay exists, people don't sacrifice a life gaurding a bomb to gain a few seconds so the CTs can't defuse if they are a stat **obscenity**, it doesn't happen.
I have, several times, held 5+ people at bay while a team mate defuses, or while a bomb goes off, and thus won the round.
CS is a DM at the core, but it's jumping limits, gun recoil, and easy deaths make it a tactical must. Those people you see at the top arn't just ratio **obscenity**, they know the game pretty well.
for a simple minded guy like me... if i watch sum good fast n furious gunfight movie (like matrix) i would probably go bust sum **obscenity** in CS later... and same goes for NS or maybe DOD(dayofdefeat)
i for one, never thought of laming, whining, ever happening in servers arnd my area... probably the lamest thing is camping... thats about it...
and as far as i know... a game with many possibilities in gameplay like NS would also have many ways for laming n **obscenity** ppl off.
btw.. i happen to know a few lame techniques for NS... where/who i could report this? (they r not bugs)
I think exploits go in the bug forum.
Although this MOD is growing quite quickly, more quickly surely than any other mod for HL (probably because it's so different, and not a CS clone), I surely hope it does not become as popular as CS now. Cs went downhill about when it went retail. Now anyone could get their hands on it, and hackers and newbies and whiners (etc...) came in the community and, well, it sucked.
That is why when people say "NS should go retail!!", i cringe... and go to play another NS game before it gets ruined <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> Ok i'm getting paranoyed <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->3) There are a *few* weapons in the game that are simply better than any of the others; therefore, these are the only weapons ever used. As is true of the gameplay, there is no variation in weapon choice.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ummm... its the same for NS. There isnt a wide selection tho, so you are always using the same weapons. Marine side that is.
And i guess i just foun the one good CS server but the maps change every 20 mins not like 60. They never play the same map within about a 2 hour span. Everyone uses all kinds of guns and the players actually play as if every game is a clan match.
Guess i just had a good experience for CS and many have not.
I really did enjoy CS, but when I couldn't go into a server and plug two guys with a shotgun without being shouted at in various letters and numbers and vote_kicked, it got annoying. The CS community is VERY large, and VERY accessable(it happens to all retail mods, DoD is slowly becoming that way), meaning that there's a higher probability you're gonna run into a bunch of idiots. There's more players, therefore there's more people to ruin your game. As NS grows, more idiots will come into the mix, but also, more brilliant and kind-mannered marines and kharaa will hopefully come in as well.
To the point. I myself am 14. People like Incitatus and myself are people who speak what we know. Not the crap some other people say just to act "mature" or "cool". Just because we are young doesn't nesasarily mean we are "young"(meaning psychologicly).
something like that <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
edit: If you do not understand what i just said, I don't blame you. My friends wouldn't so they would say i'm dumb, that i talk no sense and that i should shut up, etc. To be able to understand all the strange stuff i say, you must think about it for a bit first. Hell, i do to <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
i'd say- Ignore the idiots (there's bound to be more of em as ns gets more popular) and juz play the damn game (preferably with some good friends). that's what i did and that's why i haven't lost interest in cs. by doing that i don't think you'll be affected by lamers who will jump into ns sooner or later.
from trying to talk to those "whiners" I found out they all were very new to this game and were playing CS before, so I just hope they will loose interest in this game...
maybe its just on the servers I play on (european) since I found out that europeans tend to freak out much faster than i.e. americans.
........ right
CS and NS are NOTHING ALIKE.. beside the half-life engine.
Although this MOD is growing quite quickly, more quickly surely than any other mod for HL (probably because it's so different, and not a CS clone), I surely hope it does not become as popular as CS now. Cs went downhill about when it went retail. Now anyone could get their hands on it, and hackers and newbies and whiners (etc...) came in the community and, well, it sucked.
That is why when people say "NS should go retail!!", i cringe... and go to play another NS game before it gets ruined <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> Ok i'm getting paranoyed <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
exactly!