Grand Theft Auto
relsan
Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 3720Members, Constellation
Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 3720Members, Constellation
in Discussions
<div class="IPBDescription">where is this taking us</div> If you haven't heard, Grand Theft Auto has explicit sex scenes in it that were actually put there by the programmers as easter eggs. They still aren't sure if the programmers meant for them to be found but the damage is done. One of most controversial games of the decade is back in hot water.
<a href='http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ned=&q=grand+theft+auto' target='_blank'>Read all about it</a>
But once all this hub-hub dies down I'm wondering where this whole escapade is taking us. There have been tons of explicit games in the past; the most notable is the Leisure Suit Larry series. This isn't the first time developers have put something naughty in a game that underaged gamers happen to stumble upon. But this time I think its a little different because it gives underaged gamers a well designed loophole to engage in all kinds of violent, deviant, sexual debauchery.
This scandal does several things. 1. It suggests to gamers that given a few tutorials on the web, they could make their own mod porno. 2. This could be done in any moddable game and games these days have very realistic environments, and human models, think HL, HL2, BF2, UT. 3. Grand Theft Auto already contains violent and light sexual content out the box and suggests all kinds of immoral behaivor to gamers; hence the Mature rating, but yet like the typical R rated movie, underaged kids have access to it anyway.
So with that said, I'm wondering what's going to happen when this sparks other sexually explicit mods in other games. Who will be blamed? The game developers? The mod community? Gamers themselves? Could a game be banned because some mod author came up with a date rape game or a child pron game or a pimp and **** game that's just a little bit too real thanks to the amazing graphics, props, physical engines and easy-to-use editing tools provided by the gaming companies? The mod community does not have the controls to deter such content or keep it from underaged gamers if it manifests.
Thoughts, opinions, concerns?
<a href='http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ned=&q=grand+theft+auto' target='_blank'>Read all about it</a>
But once all this hub-hub dies down I'm wondering where this whole escapade is taking us. There have been tons of explicit games in the past; the most notable is the Leisure Suit Larry series. This isn't the first time developers have put something naughty in a game that underaged gamers happen to stumble upon. But this time I think its a little different because it gives underaged gamers a well designed loophole to engage in all kinds of violent, deviant, sexual debauchery.
This scandal does several things. 1. It suggests to gamers that given a few tutorials on the web, they could make their own mod porno. 2. This could be done in any moddable game and games these days have very realistic environments, and human models, think HL, HL2, BF2, UT. 3. Grand Theft Auto already contains violent and light sexual content out the box and suggests all kinds of immoral behaivor to gamers; hence the Mature rating, but yet like the typical R rated movie, underaged kids have access to it anyway.
So with that said, I'm wondering what's going to happen when this sparks other sexually explicit mods in other games. Who will be blamed? The game developers? The mod community? Gamers themselves? Could a game be banned because some mod author came up with a date rape game or a child pron game or a pimp and **** game that's just a little bit too real thanks to the amazing graphics, props, physical engines and easy-to-use editing tools provided by the gaming companies? The mod community does not have the controls to deter such content or keep it from underaged gamers if it manifests.
Thoughts, opinions, concerns?
Comments
But the media will be the media, I guess.
If adults want to play these games in the confines of their own video game box and Internet, that’s their call.
But popular video games that have a back red light door to the seamier side of life and are hidden from the mainstream of information is wrong, dangerous and in some jurisdictions probably unlawful. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
awerhAWKLRH AKJRHKLASEH JKLAWH ERALJKWEH!
<b>Parents have a right to know what their kids are doing, if not, an obligation.</b> HOW DID THEY GET THE GAME IN THE FIRST PLACE, MAGIC?!
Jesus, they make it seem like playing a game is something you do behind the bins at school
But <b>DEITY OF CHOICE FORBID</b> that I somehow show how all that car rocking is actually <b>the main character having sex with a prostitue! THE WORLD WILL END!</b> Fire and brimstone and newborn corpses will rain from a blood-red sky, the faces of demons will manifest in the clouds, the dead will rise from their graves to torment the living and the planet shall forever be shrouded in evil so thick that when the Xurlgon finally find us a thousand years from now, travelling across the vast interstellar distances in their gleaming silvery ships built from pure goodness, the claxxons shall sound all throughout their fleet as they pass the gas giant Sol5 and the little ball of insanity and corruption formerly known by its inhabitants as Earth comes into sensor range, and they shall weep knowing that we are beyond salvation, and with heavy hearts (or the alien equivalent thereof) they shall turn around, mourning our lost race.
I gotta quote again:
<!--QuoteBegin-Fight Club+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Fight Club)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I will bring us through this. As always, I will carry you kicking and screaming and in the end you will thank me.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
We need this. The more a ridiculous taboo is challenged, the more often people are forced to face it, the more meaningless it becomes. What better way to do it than break that taboo again and again until nobody cares anymore?
Well, you'll have to excuse me now, I've got people I need to laugh at.
Then right before they ship it out, they disable that block of code to comply with ratings criteria. No harm, no foul, right?
Video games are simply the newest scapegoat. A decade ago, Snoop Dogg was going to be responsible for the downfall of Western Civilization. Before him, Madonna was responsible for corrupting a generation of girls. Fifty years ago, it was that crazy "black" music called rock and roll. Before that, swing was moral degeneracy given form.
The younger generation in a state of waning morality is not a new complaint. The only thing that changes is the excuse given for such a "problem." I know that America isn't exactly an episode of "Leave it to Beaver," but the Beav portrayed a vision of life that was never really there. A more realistic view would have June pumped full of barbituates to keep her complacent and Ward exercised his "right" to beat Wally.
Because in a multi-million line of code, DVD-size content peice of software, things get left in even after being cut from the project. Miscommunications happen all the time.
This piece of content was probably originally intended to be part of the game, but was cut to ensure a mature (17+, not 18) rating. However, "cut" from design and "cut" from implementation are two very different things.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->This scandal does several things. 1. It suggests to gamers that given a few tutorials on the web, they could make their own mod porno. 2. This could be done in any moddable game and games these days have very realistic environments, and human models, think HL, HL2, BF2, UT.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Um...Garry's Mod, anyone? The second a perv with a brainstem figures out how to reskin models, we're going to be flooded with virtual tons of Dog-on-Alyx pr0n.
And let's think about this for a second. In order to unlock this hidden minigame, or whatever it is, you have to go online, get the mod, and install it. However, if ANY kid really wanted to see far more disturbing sexual content....he just has to go online and search; it'd take like 5 seconds. It's not like this forbidden content is really that hidden from children.
Video games are simply the newest scapegoat. A decade ago, Snoop Dogg was going to be responsible for the downfall of Western Civilization. Before him, Madonna was responsible for corrupting a generation of girls. Fifty years ago, it was that crazy "black" music called rock and roll. Before that, swing was moral degeneracy given form.
The younger generation in a state of waning morality is not a new complaint. The only thing that changes is the excuse given for such a "problem." I know that America isn't exactly an episode of "Leave it to Beaver," but the Beav portrayed a vision of life that was never really there. A more realistic view would have June pumped full of barbituates to keep her complacent and Ward exercised his "right" to beat Wally. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Only problem with this scenario is that gaming opens a new portal of experience. With movies, you can imagine yourself in that postion, in music, fantasize the reality. In games, you <i>become</i> the person in that role. I think that the programmers who left it in the game did it so it would/could be accessed. And yes, 18+ should be the only ones playing it, but how many people in this forum or this thread are under 18 and familiar with it already? Parents are no longer an active part of many teenagers lives, trust me, I deal with it on a daily basis.
I think games like this are unhealthy in nature. Even if it is just a game, you are roleplaying a role you should never live out in real life, nor should you glorify in any way. However, these games condone and promote lifestyles and activities that, IMO, are the bottom of human advancement. You may not agree, I understand, but I don't think the excuse that young people need to be limited by what they can play/see/listen to, because simply, it's not happening.
Do the game manufacturers take the place of parents, then? No. But how much GTA:SA advertising have you seen marketed DIRECTLY to people under the ESRB rating? Almost 99% of the marketing goes to a focus group too young to play it...
So, what do we do?
If people are going to complain about GTA (which they are), I would've imagined something like this would've been a fairly minor point.
Totally off-topic, but man. That's the most artistic paragraph I have ever read on an internet forum. Nice, lolfighter <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
So my parents are worthless because they let me play mature rated games even thoug im only 15, right? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Wrong, those ratings are reccomendations, if you look closely. My parents have no problem with me buying and playing M rated games, as they feel i am mature enough.
This is not real life- This is a video game!
This is NOT real life... it IS a VIDEO game...
FOR GODS SAKE MAN! IT ISN'T REAL LIFE! IT IS A VIDEO GAME!
I rest my case...
Parents
Supervising
Checking in every once in a while
Responsibility? Why should I be responsible for my child, it is the game maker's fault he is corrupted, the school's fault that he is getting poor marks, and the pool builders fault that he drown.
Can we get past the finger pointing please? I DO NOT CARE about who's fault it is that an underaged kid saw the game and I DO NOT CARE about whether the game is morally appropriate.
The only point I have been trying to make this entire time, is that it is inevitable that someone will come out with such a game like this in the future that will cause a major fuss in mainstream society.
What would happen if say someone came up with a date rape mod for HL2 and suddenly Valve was under fire. It would be hard to assign blame because Valve made a clean game while some mod author was actually the culprit. Imagine Steam being banned in certain countries because it allows the mod to be played. Imagine the money Valve would lose eventhough its not their fault.
My question to you all was basically what you thought about the fact that the complete lack of censorship in the mod community may in the future unwittingly come back to haunt us possibly in the form of country-wide boycotted games, game companies restricting modification in their games, or worse going out of business altogether.
My question to you all was basically what you thought about the fact that the complete lack of censorship in the mod community may in the future unwittingly come back to haunt us possibly in the form of country-wide boycotted games, game companies restricting modification in their games, or worse going out of business altogether. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is not entirely true. A few years back, a "mod team" made what I think was a vaporware mod that let you play the gunmen in Columbine. Within a few days of mainstream attention just within and around the PHL community, Valve stepped in and pulled the plug.
An SDK is not a free pass to make whatever you want, you have to conform to Valve's rules and regs, and they've already shown they have the family jewels to enforce those rules and regs.
What's the more bothersome part though? A child playing a game where you kill hookers after you screw them (you just can't see the actual banging) being played by a fourteen year old, or that same game allowing you to control sexual acts. I think that the idea that the game's OK until you see some boobs and sexual acts on screen is an exposure of a contradiction.
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
So, what you're saying is that at some point in the future, someone will make something bad, and some people will get upset?
Hell, I can make that prediction about anything... <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Sorry, didn't mean to be insulting, but I just couldn't resist.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->My question to you all was basically what you thought about the fact that the complete lack of censorship in the mod community may in the future unwittingly come back to haunt us possibly in the form of country-wide boycotted games, game companies restricting modification in their games, or worse going out of business altogether.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There will always be a way to get games. There will always be some form of intellectuall underground.
And, as a side note, why are people so touchy about sex? Its at the core of survival for every non-asexual creature. It occurs every day, in almost every species. Seriously, what gives?
So my parents are worthless because they let me play mature rated games even thoug im only 15, right? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Did you shoot up a school or stab some people after playing?
Unless you did you can't use that tactic.
So my parents are worthless because they let me play mature rated games even thoug im only 15, right? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Wrong, those ratings are reccomendations, if you look closely. My parents have no problem with me buying and playing M rated games, as they feel i am mature enough. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, it doesn't mean they're worthless, and I somehow doubt that he meant to imply that.
I'm pretty sure that the rating of Mature, and that it says that the user should be over 18, it means that the user should have an emotional/intellectual maturity of 18.
Like I said before Mature is <b>17+</b>, meaning that at least in America, minors can play the games.
Like all rating systems, ESRB scores are there to give you an idea of what's inside, not to restrict or enable people to use or not use the product. Retailers can require that you be 18 to buy a mature game, just like movie theaters can require a parent to be present for a kid to watch a PG-13 movie.