Fresh Meat Reservoir ?

UncleCrunchUncleCrunch Mayonnaise land Join Date: 2005-02-16 Member: 41365Members, Reinforced - Onos
<div class="IPBDescription">kitty kitty come... kitty kitty</div> I saw some topics asking for feedback about balance in the competitive scene.

Reading these topics; i had the feeling that different people (from different team i guess) think different or have a different feelings about it. Some talk about "too much ties", some other "too strong alien", "yeah!! HMG 20sec before".

Balance it until all details are set correctly may bring some extreme things too. As far as i see the NS leagues are played differently at each skill level. But mainly the scenario stays the same for each level.

I mean for example upgraded armory comes 20sec before comparing to an older version. Well it's not to distribute mines or shotgun for sure... This is to be able to counter the destructive power of fades with some better weapons. At least slow it. This bring some little changes to the way everybody play the game. Be in time or 'not too late' for droping this or that; locking this or that in time...

So depending on which server and / or with who you play with ; the 'main local scenario' becomes "routine". Routine != many choices (strategic). Routine != fun...

For example : I see (last night) on some public server that people leave more soon when 2 hives are locked. They don't even try to unlock it one time. Routine seems to kill the game. Worse when the server host some player we can call decent. It's not about locking hives in these games... They leave more soon. "Come back i want to shoot you <!--emo&:)--><img src='' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->"...

And some players finally leave NS... Ok ok people come and go, but these day even before june (hollidays for some) people have quit...

The common 'reservoir' (fishpond?) of new recruit comes from FFA mostly. Some comes from other mods. It's like 2 guys knowing each other on a non-ns mod. One guy test NS and tell his friend, etc. But mainly it stay like that. A FFA player get involved in clanplay.

We clearly see that NS has lost a lot of people. We can read here or there some complaint about this. The more the FFA server are full. The more new team can be created. because more people plays NS.

This bring my questions:
Is NS must be balanced to conquer new FFA players ?
I mean a game only played in a competitive 'context' wont last long.
Is NS will appeal to news players ?


  • AlignAlign Remain Calm Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 5216Forum Moderators, Constellation
    I didn't understand all of that, but if what you're saying is "omg people are leaving and whining in the forums!" then you should've been here around the time before 2.0 was released. EVERY DAY there would be a new post by some recently registered person about how JPHMG is m2d overpowered etc.

    There's always people leaving and joining. Catering to a very specific group of people is never a good idea.
  • UncleCrunchUncleCrunch Mayonnaise land Join Date: 2005-02-16 Member: 41365Members, Reinforced - Onos
  • SuitePeeSuitePee Join Date: 2004-11-18 Member: 32857Members
    OMG JPHMG IS OVERPOWERED!!!! <!--emo&;)--><img src='' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
  • CheeseCheese Lork on the Clorf Join Date: 2003-12-15 Member: 24396Members, Constellation
    i didnt understand a single one of these questions...soz..but they make absolute no sense to me. plz edit or explain to me what you asked. thank you
  • AngelOfMusicAngelOfMusic Join Date: 2005-06-28 Member: 54828Banned
    I think we should have an mp_pubmode 1. This would remove spores, sensory chambers, - offense chambers, turrets, motion tracking and silence. This would go a long way towards promoting skill and balance in ns.
  • UncleCrunchUncleCrunch Mayonnaise land Join Date: 2005-02-16 Member: 41365Members, Reinforced - Onos
    Game is balanced as some top clan say.

    But look... isn't it strange that every game played is played with hive locking. I mean taking care of hives to avoid the alien team to have their second hive. I personnaly didn't play a game (exept one) without hive locking with TFs and or OCs. Not that i want it. But simply 2 hives is marins death it seems.

    I even take command in one game. Forced to lock the hives because apparently some people don't understand what is the "blue circle" thought they kill a lot... So each hives where locked with 1PG 1RT 1TF + 3 turets (only) and no elec. The alien team kept a good presure on RT. Then they try to unlock the hives. 3 Skulks made a rush on Biodome. The turrets killed them. So 1 turet for 1 skulk. They tried it again and they finally put the TF down... But one marin got there just in time to kill the wounded skulks and rebuild the TF...

    Then upgrades came. I remember see them killing 1 or 2 onos, 3 or 4 fades with LMG. Then when alien saw the first HA... They quit...

    On the other side, I played on alien side a game incliding of course hive locking. It seems that 3 turets are too much for 3 skulks... what about 5 or a complete turret farm? Well; enough to say that when Marins locked the hive... It was "game over". Even with repeated attacks it didn't work on one electrified TF. The commander finally put a 2nd TF in the place and used electricity again. Well this time it's locked... 2 TF ELEC + PG + 5 turrets at least .

    On the alien side it's the same... locking the hive with 2 OCs prevent early TF locking.

    It seems to be a common scenario on pub server (FFA). Everybody quit once the hive are locked and no chance to unlock it. The first team who lock is the winner. So the other team who cannot develop itself with two hive seems to be dommed. It can be called Agony. Because it last long... 20 minutes at least before they quit...

    Clanplay at a decent level use different technics that are more chiper but it's mainly the same. Lock hive is better than rush a gestating one. Or at least be able to keep an eye on it. Some commander even talk about their ability to lock the hives in less than X minutes. This kind of humour is one i can call bad taste.

    Instead of whining i ask:

    Isn't it boring the repeat the same things for each game instead of using tactics and player skill ?

    Clan member comes mostly from FFA. A boring game is not appealing to new (FFA) players. Maybee those who will join a clan.

    Is the game must be balanced for the "top clanners" (a minority) and balanced on their way of playing it ?

    I mean it's clear that there is a lot of difference between the two style (clan/pub)now. Worse when average level team die and when new team don't come up. There is a bigger distance between the two.

    Maybee TF should be more weak. Maybee limiting turrets number per TF. Avoid TF stacking + elec like i saw(minimum distance like other structures). Maybee the same for OCs.

    AngelOfMusic suggests something that will not help people get used to clan play or at least aquire a decent skill level. But for sure, someone has to stop these abusing TF technics. Technicly it s called a strategy but... pfff what a pity.

    Limiting can be a way of doing it. Mr Teamwork will be pleased i think, because actually i see more teamwork done by turrets than any other players...
  • BadMouthBadMouth It ceases to be exclusive when you can have a custom member titl Join Date: 2004-05-21 Member: 28815Members
    Locking might spell doom from where you come from but not me. Hell, sometimes, the marines dont even have to lock hives and they can still win. I'm talking about pub play here.
  • UncleCrunchUncleCrunch Mayonnaise land Join Date: 2005-02-16 Member: 41365Members, Reinforced - Onos
    Yeah i did too... But it involve a great difference in skill level... It's like a 'hammer' falling on the oponent. Not really funny as there is no challenge.
  • comradecomrade Join Date: 2003-11-30 Member: 23774Members
    Remove turrets and electrification, make OCs cost 15 but give them a small health boost and increase their damage by 10.

    Also, I can't tell what you're saying 75% of the time.
  • SuitePeeSuitePee Join Date: 2004-11-18 Member: 32857Members
    Ok as a marine I'll allow the aliens access to fade gas,onos stomp and basically all high lvl skills.
    While I'm there,I'll allow them to build all the rts they want,eat all the marines they want and basically do whatever they want.
    And as an alien,I'll just sit in my 1 hive and wait for the shotguns to come.

    <childish argument ends>

    Although I agree you say locking down hives is repetitive,it's part of the game. Otherwise the aliens would win most of the time. Or the marines. And they can easily switch back and forth. Many a time I've seen a hive been unattended by just a pg and rt,5 secs later both r gone,the hive is theirs.
    I've also seen games where neither marine nor alien have set foot in any of the hives with about 5 mins played,with more focus on getting rts and choking key dbl points.
    It sure takes some skill not only getting a hive sealed,but maintaining it.
    And if you think NS is repetitive,go play CS. Go watch the AWP's in every soldier's hand. Go watch a 20 v 20 server become a camping match,over and over again,cos all the non-awp'ers get killed.
    Or you could suck it up and play NS,and do your best to prevent the repetition. GET UR BUDDIES TO THAT HIVE,SEAL IT DOWN AND DEFEND LIKE HELL!! <!--emo&:D--><img src='' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->

    Not all games are the same you know.....
  • Splinter_SteveSplinter_Steve Join Date: 2005-03-20 Member: 45881Members
    As to what Crunch said in his original post I agree based on opinion...relocations and long, crazy games are always the most fun for me. Comeback games are also the best. I'm usually the "secure second hive" guy for both teams. Sometimes I'll get some communication going between everybody, and you get a fun atmosphere win or lose. **** every now and's always the variety of people and circumstances that are fun for me. Which is why when maps fall off the list it makes me sad <!--emo&:(--><img src='' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
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