Twg Vi: Post-game Thread

2

Comments

  • PetcoPetco Join Date: 2003-07-27 Member: 18478Members, Constellation
    I was wondering, how do wolves decide who to kill off again? I kind of missed how they did, so they give their ideas on who to kill, and one of the wolves PM the host?
  • ByekaByeka Name changed from Freak83 Toronto Join Date: 2003-03-13 Member: 14484Members, Constellation
    edited June 2005
    Basically.

    btw, to the game winners and host... We'll have updated (or new <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> ) sigs for you shortly.
  • CrispyCrispy Jaded GD Join Date: 2004-08-22 Member: 30793Members, Constellation
    <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I might as well post my idea on here. I've already emailed freak83 about it:

    Number of players: 24 (18)

    1 seer (with the ability to protect one person from conversion)
    1 psychic

    3 wolves. (2 wolves for 18 players)
    1 chances to convert a normal human to wolf. (1 chance with 18 players)

    It works like this: one night, instead of killing someone the wolves gain one normal human to their side. It has to be a normal human. It fails if the wolves targetted a special role. It also fails if the wolves target a seer-protected target.

    -Seer gets to protect one person per night from becoming a wolf. This way, the seer network doesn't collapse completely when the wolves do get one to their side.
    -If the seer manages to target the same person that the wolves convert that night, the target would be a wolf, not a human.
    -There will be no announcement of whether the conversion succeeds or fails. However, it's quite evident someone changed the other side since there is no killing that night.

    Originally, I'll like to do it for 24 players, but I can do it for 18 players, due to balancing issues.

    EDIT: Freak83, I know I send you 2 wolves with 2 conversion in email. I like to change that to 3 wolves and 1 conversion after thinking some more on its balance.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->I'm confused. Please write it step by step, e.g.:

    Each night the following takes place:

    Wolves choose who to convert
    Seer chooses who to guard
    Etc.
    Etc.

    ---

    I also think that if the seer has different properties, that special role should be given a different name, like Warlock of something.
  • brute_forcebrute_force Join Date: 2003-10-04 Member: 21433Members, Constellation
    Didn't get to play much this time, as I got psycho'd pretty early on. Saltz, was there a specific reason for killing me or was it just random?

    I won't be participating in the next one, probably, as I'll be going to Spain tomorrow. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
  • TheslanTheslan TWG Signature Maker Join Date: 2004-04-27 Member: 28245Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-Crispy+Jun 24 2005, 08:45 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Crispy @ Jun 24 2005, 08:45 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I might as well post my idea on here. I've already emailed freak83 about it:

    Number of players: 24 (18)

    1 seer (with the ability to protect one person from conversion)
    1 psychic

    3 wolves. (2 wolves for 18 players)
    1 chances to convert a normal human to wolf. (1 chance with 18 players)

    It works like this: one night, instead of killing someone the wolves gain one normal human to their side. It has to be a normal human. It fails if the wolves targetted a special role. It also fails if the wolves target a seer-protected target.

    -Seer gets to protect one person per night from becoming a wolf. This way, the seer network doesn't collapse completely when the wolves do get one to their side.
    -If the seer manages to target the same person that the wolves convert that night, the target would be a wolf, not a human.
    -There will be no announcement of whether the conversion succeeds or fails. However, it's quite evident someone changed the other side since there is no killing that night.

    Originally, I'll like to do it for 24 players, but I can do it for 18 players, due to balancing issues.

    EDIT: Freak83, I know I send you 2 wolves with 2 conversion in email. I like to change that to 3 wolves and 1 conversion after thinking some more on its balance.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->I'm confused. Please write it step by step, e.g.:

    Each night the following takes place:

    Wolves choose who to convert
    Seer chooses who to guard
    Etc.
    Etc.

    ---

    I also think that if the seer has different properties, that special role should be given a different name, like Warlock of something. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    It's pretty simple.

    The wolves for one night gets to convert one human to a wolf, in place of a killing. This is the only time where the seer would have a chance to save a person for being converted (because the seer can protect one person from this). Otherwise, the game is normal. Keep in mind that the seer is still normal besides getting a guardian-like ability: the seer still chooses one person to see.
  • SnidelySnidely Join Date: 2003-02-04 Member: 13098Members
    He has a point though; if he's got more abilities than a regular seer, it's best to give him another name, to avoid confusion.
  • EMP_DemonEMP_Demon Nothing to see here. Join Date: 2005-01-28 Member: 38754Members, Constellation
    I like the sound of "Sage", personally.
  • im_lostim_lost TWG Rule Guru Join Date: 2003-04-26 Member: 15861Members
    I don't have a story yet, I just wanted to get some feedback on this idea for gameplay that I came up with. The basic premise is that no one is a plain human.

    22 players

    3 wolves
    3 mafia (works the same as wolves, just as a different "team")
    1 psychopath

    if a single player is targeted by more than one person for death, that person dies, no botched murder

    humans (15)<ul><li>1 vigilante (pick someone to kill, can choose not to)</li><li>1 seer (checks for wolves)</li><li>1 angel (checks for mafia)</li><li>1 detective (checks for psychopath)</li><li>3 masons (know that each of the others is human)</li><li>1 psychic (at the beginning of each night, gets the number of wolves + mafia)</li><li>1 miller (appears to be a wolf to the seer, and mafia to the angel, but not for the detective) - this person normally isn't told that they are the miller, but in this version it would be obvious anyway, since everyone has a role</li><li>2 lovers (each one knows who the other is; if one dies, the other automatically dies at the end of the night, whether the first one died during day or night)</li><li>1 guardian (protects a player from any killer, even from multiple killers; the person saved is not revealed to anyone)</li><li>1 martyr (the martyr can pick a person, and if that person would normally die during the night, the martyr dies instead; if the martyr picks someone that is targeted for death, the guardian can prevent the death by protecting the targeted person OR the martyr)</li><li>1 super-saint (if this person dies during the day, their role is revealed, and the first person to vote for them that day (out of the people that still have a vote on the person) also dies that day)</li><li>1 forensic specialist (checks one DEAD person per night, and finds out exactly what role that person had)</li></ul>
    There's lots of interesting game mechanics that come from this. The first part is that the humans already have a few networks set up, in the masons and lovers. However, the lovers are quite vulnerable, and the masons can easily be seen as mafia or wolves, or the mafia/wolves might claim to be masons.

    On the other hand, it's difficult to expand the human network. Just because the seer finds a nonwolf doesn't mean that they aren't a mafia member.

    The number of deaths will be very sporadic. A night-day cycle can have up to 7 deaths (lovers die at night, super-saint during the day), or as few as 1 (guardian protects right person at night, who is targeted by everyone). The vigilante can choose not to kill anyone, and the vigilante and psychopath could die off quickly.

    Also note that the game could be a 4-way tie, if the final night begins with 1 wolf, 1 mafia, psychopath, and vigilante.

    As noted, I don't have a story to use as host, so I won't be applying. I thought it would be good to get feedback on the idea though. If anyone else wants to take this idea and use it, feel free.
  • TheslanTheslan TWG Signature Maker Join Date: 2004-04-27 Member: 28245Members
    sigh... alright... taking the two suggestion, the seer would be called:

    Warlock sage.

    Happy?
  • ByekaByeka Name changed from Freak83 Toronto Join Date: 2003-03-13 Member: 14484Members, Constellation
    im lost, that would just be a highly confusing game.
  • SaltzBadSaltzBad Join Date: 2004-02-23 Member: 26833Members
    I think it would be hilarious. And fun.
  • TheMuffinManTheMuffinMan Join Date: 2002-12-20 Member: 11234Members, Constellation
    I quite like Theslans idea. I much prefer the 18 player version, though, as i reckon that 24 is too many for TWG.

    I really don't like im losts suggestion, though. By themselves, most of the roles sound pretty fun. All together, and that game is <i>way</i> too complex. I would have absolutely no idea what was going on, what with the 15 different roles that a person could be.
  • PetcoPetco Join Date: 2003-07-27 Member: 18478Members, Constellation
    <!--QuoteBegin-FreakEightyThree+Jun 24 2005, 04:28 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (FreakEightyThree @ Jun 24 2005, 04:28 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> im lost, that would just be a highly confusing game. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    It was on this mafia site, they said it's very complicated but fun, but TBH maybe a couple more games before we try anything like that.
  • im_lostim_lost TWG Rule Guru Join Date: 2003-04-26 Member: 15861Members
    I realize it's highly confusing, I thought that would be a fun variation though. Apparently no one else thinks it's time for that yet (except SaltzBad, who goes out of his way to create confusion). Has anyone besides Theslan applied to be host?
  • TheslanTheslan TWG Signature Maker Join Date: 2004-04-27 Member: 28245Members
    *scratches head at im lost's idea*

    Ok... so there are 4 scenarios of winning here: wolves, mason, psychopath and normal (other roles) human?

    This means 3 deaths at night, and 1 death during the day (+1 by maytr or super-saint)?

    With 24 players, this game would last only 4 days... I think.

    Not to mention that 3 people are killed right off in the game at night 1. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
  • im_lostim_lost TWG Rule Guru Join Date: 2003-04-26 Member: 15861Members
    No, the masons are regular humans (except for knowing who each other are), they win with the rest of the humans. The other side is the mafia, which are just like the wolves, just on a different side. That means 4 deaths per night. However, once the psychopath or vigilante die, then less people die, along with the fact that the vigilante can choose not to kill anyone, which would probably be a good idea if they have no idea who to kill. Also, as the game has fewer people, the chances of a person being targeted to die by more than one person increases.
  • ZeroByteZeroByte Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 3057Members
    Number of players: 16
    Roles: 4 Wolves, 1 Seer, 1 Psychic, 1 Guardian, 9 Humans

    It's been decided that the Guardian is either plain useless or too powerful, so this is a variation of a standard TWG that tries to adress that. By himself, the Guardian has limited abilities. He only has a 25% chance of saving his target. To up that percentage, the Guardian has to form a network. His network will be known to the Gamemaster and the network will have access to the game master to ask who the Guardian is guarding.

    The network will be made up of a maximum of four persons including the Guardian. Initially, without anyone in his network, the Guardian has a 25% chance of saving his target. For every person the Guardian adds to the network, the chance goes up by 25%. So the numbers are:

    Guardian only: 25%
    Guardian + 1: 50%
    Guardian + 2: 75%
    Guardian + 3: 100%

    When a player is added to this network, the Guardian will send a PM to the game master, telling him who has been added to the Guardian network. The players in the Guardian network may send the Gamemaster a PM at night asking about who the Guardian is guarding. Members of the network <b>may</b> be guarded. The Guardian himself still cannot be guarded though.

    If a wolf is in the Guardian network, he is not counted by the Gamemaster when calculating the chances of a save. If the Guardian fails to save his target, one of the humans in his network will die trying to save the guardee resulting in two deaths at night, the target of the wolves and a member of the guardian network. The players will not know which is which.

    The rest of the game mechanics follow the standard TWG game. I went with a small-ish number of players for a quick game and, especially with the introduction of a guardian network, to increase the chances of vanilla humans being involved in a network. Also, lately it seems that finding active players for a TWG has become difficult, so a small game seems better to me.

    I'm not quite sure if I can run this game because of the whole timezone thing and with me having early classes every frick'n day. If someone else wants to run a game with these rules, its fine by me. I have a story for the game, it just seems impractical for someone on the other side of the world to be running it.
  • im_lostim_lost TWG Rule Guru Join Date: 2003-04-26 Member: 15861Members
    So, the guardian can reveal conclusively who they are to people, and they have to do this to increase their odds of being successful. If they pick a wolf they should be dead, which makes it dangerous enough to begin with. Assuming they don't get killed off like that, then they still aren't likely to successfully pick the right person to guard, the same problem as now. If they happen to pick the right person, then either another human dies, which would be really bad for the humans, or a human is confirmed to everyone, which is what makes the guardian overpowered. The current version had a guardian that was overpowered or useless. You've just added on the possibility of him being a detriment, and created strange methods for affecting the probability.

    My solution was simply to not reveal who the guardian had saved.
  • Soul_RiderSoul_Rider Mod Bean Join Date: 2004-06-19 Member: 29388Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
    Theslan

    Your idea is very interesting, but can i just have one thing confirmed. If a seer confirms a human and then later the human is converted to a wolf, will the seer know they have been changed, or will he still suspect them to be human?
  • ByekaByeka Name changed from Freak83 Toronto Join Date: 2003-03-13 Member: 14484Members, Constellation
    The whole deal with the Guardian. The thing that seems to be misunderstood is that it's NOT unbalanced. A game with 3-4 wolves, the Seer, Psychic, and Guardian is perfectly balanced. A Guardian save as proved is incredibly rare and he manages to detour the wolves vote or make them think twice about who to choose every game. The odd time he does succeed it creates a huge opportunity for the humans, however the damage done to the wolves is not irreplaceable.

    These changes everyone seems to enjoy making to the Guardian are not neccisary.
  • TheslanTheslan TWG Signature Maker Join Date: 2004-04-27 Member: 28245Members
    Soul rider:

    No, the seer will have to rebuild his network again. This is the reason why I added the seer (warlord sage) to have the ability of protecting one person from conversion every night. Rather than starting from ground-up, the warlord sage has one person he can definitely trust as human because that human cannot be converted.
  • im_lostim_lost TWG Rule Guru Join Date: 2003-04-26 Member: 15861Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-FreakEightyThree+Jun 25 2005, 09:28 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (FreakEightyThree @ Jun 25 2005, 09:28 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The whole deal with the Guardian.  The thing that seems to be misunderstood is that it's NOT unbalanced.  A game with 3-4 wolves, the Seer, Psychic, and Guardian is perfectly balanced.  A Guardian save as proved is incredibly rare and he manages to detour the wolves vote or make them think twice about who to choose every game.  The odd time he does succeed it creates a huge opportunity for the humans, <i>however the damage done to the wolves is not irreplaceable.</i><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I agree with everything there, except the part I italicized. So far, nobody has tried to do anything very tricky as a wolf, and until the people playing here show the ability to do that, a confirmed human spells disaster for the wolves.
  • ByekaByeka Name changed from Freak83 Toronto Join Date: 2003-03-13 Member: 14484Members, Constellation
    Admitingly, it is rather hard to repremend themselves after a successful Guard but it can be done. Their best chance is of course if the Seer and Psychic are already dead, that way only a very small network can be formed and can be destroyed through careful wolf planning.
  • SkySky Join Date: 2004-04-23 Member: 28131Members
    im lost....I just have to say, it was a headache running this game at times, and I only added one role. You running that game would make Aspirin's stock skyrocket.
  • GwahirGwahir Join Date: 2002-04-24 Member: 513Members, Constellation
    I was practically a confirmed human... I'm betting that's why I was killed, most humans figured I was human, the wolves got ansy about a guy who was actually digging into things, etc.


    But I want to hear it from the wolves, what was your reason for wolfing me?
  • TheslanTheslan TWG Signature Maker Join Date: 2004-04-27 Member: 28245Members
    Gwahir, you were a target because we (mainly I) wanted to make it look like you were digging too hard, and imply im lost as a wolf due to that. It didn't work out that way though.

    That's the only reason.
  • BreakthroughBreakthrough Texture Artist (ns_prometheus) Join Date: 2005-03-27 Member: 46620Members, Constellation
    edited June 2005
    Just a test - possible new signatures for you all <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->

    <img src='http://img103.echo.cx/img103/6018/nstwg2test4dj.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />

    Edit: Give me feedback on how you'd like to see it improved.
  • TheslanTheslan TWG Signature Maker Join Date: 2004-04-27 Member: 28245Members
    Hey, it looks great. I was hoping the level # could be done visually, like stripes in the military, but that's my opinion.
  • BreakthroughBreakthrough Texture Artist (ns_prometheus) Join Date: 2005-03-27 Member: 46620Members, Constellation
    <!--QuoteBegin-Theslan+Jun 25 2005, 07:21 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Theslan @ Jun 25 2005, 07:21 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Hey, it looks great. I was hoping the level # could be done visually, like stripes in the military, but that's my opinion. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Maybe a bunch of stars (e.g. if you're level 3, you get 3 stars, level 5 = 5 stars), ?
  • ByekaByeka Name changed from Freak83 Toronto Join Date: 2003-03-13 Member: 14484Members, Constellation
    Wow Breakthrough, those definatly look impressive. For the Level, the only problem with using stars is that it might take up a large portion of space by a certain level. Also, what about background color for each level?
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