<!--QuoteBegin-slipknotkthx+Jun 20 2005, 06:23 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (slipknotkthx @ Jun 20 2005, 06:23 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If you aren't smart enough to protect your computer you should be flooded.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> how exactly does a normal person secure against DDoS attacks besides not trying to incur them
GrendelAll that is fear...Join Date: 2002-07-19Member: 970Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, NS2 Playtester
<!--QuoteBegin-titanium+Jun 20 2005, 10:11 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (titanium @ Jun 20 2005, 10:11 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Crispy+Jun 20 2005, 05:20 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Crispy @ Jun 20 2005, 05:20 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> There's an unwritten law (I wouldn't be surprised if the game creators or server owners have it written somewhere in the agreement you approve when you set up a server) that restricts admins from making IPs publically available. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
no there isn't
most of you are so grossly misinformed that it's mind-boggling
people can't do jack with your ip address other than flood you or exploit vulnerabilites on your system
the first is only possible if they have a large botnet and are dedicated to bringing you down (and guess what? i don't think a single person cares enough about anyone posting in this thread to try to take out their internet connection)
the second is only possible if you're too dimwitted to update your respective operating systems when service packs and/or patches are released, in which case you deserve to get rooted
oh no here is my ip address please don't hack me! 24.222.179.143 <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> a) Service packs come out AFTER vulnerabilities have been exploited. If you think that regularly installing windows update is the be all and end all of avoiding unwanted intrusion, then you've been surfing Microsoft.com too long.
b) Most people have lives, rather than degrees in computer science.
yes i'm sure that when an exploit is discovered it's going to be first found and used by a random script kiddy against someone trying to play a videogame, that makes perfect sense
also, using a firewall or router as well as keeping your software up to date doesn't require a degree in anything, if you're competent enough to breathe or walk you can handle keeping your computer secure enough
<!--QuoteBegin-titanium+Jun 20 2005, 10:53 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (titanium @ Jun 20 2005, 10:53 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> yes i'm sure that when an exploit is discovered it's going to be first found and used by a random script kiddy against someone trying to play a videogame, that makes perfect sense
also, using a firewall or router as well as keeping your software up to date doesn't require a degree in anything, if you're competent enough to breathe or walk you can handle keeping your computer secure enough <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Like any of this crap actually really matters, and nobody really fears issues openly by replying to this thread.
The fact is competetive play would have another thing to watch out for, pubs would be hell, and I dont see the need to spend any more effort faffing around with my firewalls, router and netstat etc.. locating and boning would be script kiddies. Its a thing called Privacy that im certain most server admins would respect. However when its a hackin little scrote then post their ip away <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
no there isn't<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Oh, and you actually read all of the T&Cs, did you?
I wouldn't call you misinformed, because there's certain information you just lack, so you wouldn't qualify.
An unscrupulous or just plain ol' power-hungry games company is presented with a ridiculously easily accessible source for extracting all the IPs of players who played a particular game: game A. This company then takes all of this info down and adds it to a database. This database is further increased when another game, perhaps of a different genre, makes the same faux-pas and publically displays player IPs.
The unscrupulous games company, which hasn't broken any law, can now make certain observations.
- IPs in certain <span style='color:green'>areas/countries</span> <span style='color:yellow'>liked/disliked</span> <span style='color:orange'>game A/game B/both games A and B</span>
Then they can continue to market even less original titles to a playerbase and know more accurately where to ship their copies and how many. This makes them bigger profit margins so that they have more cash to swallow the smaller games companies which only serves to stagnate the gaming market, with "hollywood-esque" titles all based on the same principles/engine will turn the once multicoloured array of new techniques, platforms, engines and gameplays into a monochrome string of copycat titles.
GrendelAll that is fear...Join Date: 2002-07-19Member: 970Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, NS2 Playtester
<!--QuoteBegin-titanium+Jun 21 2005, 04:53 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (titanium @ Jun 21 2005, 04:53 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> yes i'm sure that when an exploit is discovered it's going to be first found and used by a random script kiddy against someone trying to play a videogame, that makes perfect sense
also, using a firewall or router as well as keeping your software up to date doesn't require a degree in anything, if you're competent enough to breathe or walk you can handle keeping your computer secure enough <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I'm basing my conclusions on almost 18 years of PC usage and about 7 years of working in IT support. This doesn't mean I'm categorically right, I'm simply putting my viewpoint into perspective.
In fact, I'm typing up this post from my PC at work, where I get paid to sort out people's IT problems. Roughly 1 in 5 of those problems on a given day are due to firewall configuration issues. The "retards" that I'm dealing with are primarily secondary school teachers and university lecturers.
You represent a tiny minority of obsessive geeks (no offence meant, I'm included in that minority). No one else gives a flying **** what their IP address is, what their processor speed is or what a firewall might be. They just assume that having spent £1000, they'll have something that works.
There are plenty of highly intelligent people in the world who could care less about computers. They use them as tools, rather than treating them as friends. And there are masses of people with average intelligence who simply lack the time or inclination to learn that much about PCs, partly because their life involves 12 hour shifts and a family to look after.
Your comments are not reflective of people in the <b>real</b> world, although if your friends were all PC gamers, I could understand why you might draw such a conclusion.
As for your comment of:
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->"yes i'm sure that when an exploit is discovered it's going to be first found and used by a random script kiddy against someone trying to play a videogame, that makes perfect sense"<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oddly enough, most "hackers" are exactly what you define above. In fact, malicious exploits designed to attack servers or clients have cropped up repeatedly whilst NS has been developed. These aren't usually traceable to shadowy Otaku who work for the CIA, but are in fact usually down to angst-ridden teenagers.
<!--QuoteBegin-Grendel+Jun 21 2005, 01:33 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Grendel @ Jun 21 2005, 01:33 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The "retards" that I'm dealing with are primarily secondary school teachers and university lecturers. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Yeah but they're in the UK so if you were to remove the quotes around retard - no one would notice.
Good post Grendel, thanks. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Depot+Jun 19 2005, 06:03 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Depot @ Jun 19 2005, 06:03 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I don't want to see this particular feature implemented, hence my need for feedback. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> It won't be implemented. Don't pretend your feedback is needed, because it isn't. No sane developer would support adding such a feature.
<!--QuoteBegin-dhakbar+Jun 21 2005, 01:22 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (dhakbar @ Jun 21 2005, 01:22 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-Depot+Jun 19 2005, 06:03 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Depot @ Jun 19 2005, 06:03 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I don't want to see this particular feature implemented, hence my need for feedback. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> It won't be implemented. Don't pretend your feedback is needed, because it isn't. No sane developer would support adding such a feature.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Actually the plugin was already released, but was quickly withdrawn.
As to the sanity of the coder who created it, I am not at liberty to comment.
The general consensus here seems to be nearly unanimous though.
Beyond the discussed issue (ICMP flooding, TCP disconnect attacks, etc) there is one that I think we all prefer to ignore: liability.
When someone with an insecure box is compromised, and can blame it on a choice *you* made setting you your server, there could well be issues. The nightmare scenario would be someone playing games on a corporate network...
Not really likely, but one more thing to throw in the pot if you need to scare people off.
Reviing an old topic here, but oh well, there are many good reasons for admins to know a person's IP address though. I do it all the time, searching logs and what not, to confirm smurfs of people I have banned, or ban people by getting their IP address from our forums from abusing there, and then just searching the logs with that address to get a corrosponding Steam ID, it all comes in handy for me.
I don't think anyone's claiming that it's a bad thing for admins to know player's IP addresses (which I believe are visible in the server logs). The issue was that other player's IPs were being displayed to non-admins <b>by default</b>. I'm pretty certain there wouldn't have been such a fuss made if that particular feature was switched off by default.
The plugin was an enhanced structure information display, which included a player's IP address. Here's an example: <img src='http://img291.echo.cx/img291/5056/screen0122oj.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
If any server admins use this plugin, I highly recommend they turn the IP feature off.
<!--QuoteBegin-kalimxs+Jun 19 2005, 05:39 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (kalimxs @ Jun 19 2005, 05:39 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> giving people who connect access to an ip list is a terrible idea <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Agreed. Only server admins should deal with this area, as there are too many things you can exploit when you know someones IP.
Comments
everyone watch titanium get hacked
LOL!
no but seriously that would be stupid as hell.
how exactly does a normal person secure against DDoS attacks besides not trying to incur them
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
no there isn't
most of you are so grossly misinformed that it's mind-boggling
people can't do jack with your ip address other than flood you or exploit vulnerabilites on your system
the first is only possible if they have a large botnet and are dedicated to bringing you down (and guess what? i don't think a single person cares enough about anyone posting in this thread to try to take out their internet connection)
the second is only possible if you're too dimwitted to update your respective operating systems when service packs and/or patches are released, in which case you deserve to get rooted
oh no here is my ip address please don't hack me! 24.222.179.143 <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
a) Service packs come out AFTER vulnerabilities have been exploited. If you think that regularly installing windows update is the be all and end all of avoiding unwanted intrusion, then you've been surfing Microsoft.com too long.
b) Most people have lives, rather than degrees in computer science.
also, using a firewall or router as well as keeping your software up to date doesn't require a degree in anything, if you're competent enough to breathe or walk you can handle keeping your computer secure enough
also, using a firewall or router as well as keeping your software up to date doesn't require a degree in anything, if you're competent enough to breathe or walk you can handle keeping your computer secure enough <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Like any of this crap actually really matters, and nobody really fears issues openly by replying to this thread.
The fact is competetive play would have another thing to watch out for, pubs would be hell, and I dont see the need to spend any more effort faffing around with my firewalls, router and netstat etc.. locating and boning would be script kiddies. Its a thing called Privacy that im certain most server admins would respect. However when its a hackin little scrote then post their ip away <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
no there isn't<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Oh, and you actually read all of the T&Cs, did you?
I wouldn't call you misinformed, because there's certain information you just lack, so you wouldn't qualify.
An unscrupulous or just plain ol' power-hungry games company is presented with a ridiculously easily accessible source for extracting all the IPs of players who played a particular game: game A. This company then takes all of this info down and adds it to a database. This database is further increased when another game, perhaps of a different genre, makes the same faux-pas and publically displays player IPs.
The unscrupulous games company, which hasn't broken any law, can now make certain observations.
- IPs in certain <span style='color:green'>areas/countries</span> <span style='color:yellow'>liked/disliked</span> <span style='color:orange'>game A/game B/both games A and B</span>
Then they can continue to market even less original titles to a playerbase and know more accurately where to ship their copies and how many. This makes them bigger profit margins so that they have more cash to swallow the smaller games companies which only serves to stagnate the gaming market, with "hollywood-esque" titles all based on the same principles/engine will turn the once multicoloured array of new techniques, platforms, engines and gameplays into a monochrome string of copycat titles.
I'd prefer not to have it your way, Mr. Informed.
also, using a firewall or router as well as keeping your software up to date doesn't require a degree in anything, if you're competent enough to breathe or walk you can handle keeping your computer secure enough <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm basing my conclusions on almost 18 years of PC usage and about 7 years of working in IT support. This doesn't mean I'm categorically right, I'm simply putting my viewpoint into perspective.
In fact, I'm typing up this post from my PC at work, where I get paid to sort out people's IT problems. Roughly 1 in 5 of those problems on a given day are due to firewall configuration issues. The "retards" that I'm dealing with are primarily secondary school teachers and university lecturers.
You represent a tiny minority of obsessive geeks (no offence meant, I'm included in that minority). No one else gives a flying **** what their IP address is, what their processor speed is or what a firewall might be. They just assume that having spent £1000, they'll have something that works.
There are plenty of highly intelligent people in the world who could care less about computers. They use them as tools, rather than treating them as friends. And there are masses of people with average intelligence who simply lack the time or inclination to learn that much about PCs, partly because their life involves 12 hour shifts and a family to look after.
Your comments are not reflective of people in the <b>real</b> world, although if your friends were all PC gamers, I could understand why you might draw such a conclusion.
As for your comment of:
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->"yes i'm sure that when an exploit is discovered it's going to be first found and used by a random script kiddy against someone trying to play a videogame, that makes perfect sense"<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oddly enough, most "hackers" are exactly what you define above. In fact, malicious exploits designed to attack servers or clients have cropped up repeatedly whilst NS has been developed. These aren't usually traceable to shadowy Otaku who work for the CIA, but are in fact usually down to angst-ridden teenagers.
Yeah but they're in the UK so if you were to remove the quotes around retard - no one would notice.
It won't be implemented. Don't pretend your feedback is needed, because it isn't. No sane developer would support adding such a feature.
It won't be implemented. Don't pretend your feedback is needed, because it isn't. No sane developer would support adding such a feature.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually the plugin was already released, but was quickly withdrawn.
As to the sanity of the coder who created it, I am not at liberty to comment.
The general consensus here seems to be nearly unanimous though.
When someone with an insecure box is compromised, and can blame it on a choice *you* made setting you your server, there could well be issues. The nightmare scenario would be someone playing games on a corporate network...
Not really likely, but one more thing to throw in the pot if you need to scare people off.
<img src='http://img291.echo.cx/img291/5056/screen0122oj.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
If any server admins use this plugin, I highly recommend they turn the IP feature off.
Agreed. Only server admins should deal with this area, as there are too many things you can exploit when you know someones IP.