Alcohol Poisoning
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The ModFather Join Date: 2002-11-09 Member: 7956Members
The ModFather Join Date: 2002-11-09 Member: 7956Members
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<div class="IPBDescription">A serious consequence of binge drinking</div> A recent post in another forum prompted me to do some thinking, resulting in researching this very serious problem amongst our youth of today, particularly college students. If you view the tv or newspaper often it's becoming a regular headline, "Student dies from alcohol poisoning".
<a href='http://www.mayoclinic.com/invoke.cfm?id=HQ00199' target='_blank'>MayoClinic.com</a> does a good job of describing alcohol poisoning in response to a viewer's email. The peak Blood Alcohol Level occurs 60 to 90 minutes after ingestion when the stomach is empty.
From <a href='http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/PEOPLE/outreach/safesobr/15qp/web/idalc.html' target='_blank'>Campaign Safe and Sober</a>
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Alcohol Poisoning </b>
In 1984 a federal law required all states to set 21 as the legal age for purchase or public possession of alcoholic beverages. States that did not comply would lose a portion of their federal highway construction funding. The federal law was tied to highway construction funding because of the overwhelming evidence that lower drinking ages result in significantly higher motor vehicle fatalities involving young drivers. Since that time, many traffic safety organizations, including Remove Intoxicated Drivers (RID), have taken a leadership role in supporting efforts to increase compliance with the drinking age laws. Increased awareness about alcohol poisoning can play a key role in the prevention of underage drinking.
<b>Knowing the Facts Can Save Lives </b>
Until the 1990’s, deaths due to alcohol poisoning were largely ignored by the media. Families who lost a child due to AOD (alcohol overdose) suffered in silence. College campuses, where a great many of the deaths occurred, sought to avoid adverse publicity. Death certificates said “cardiac arrest” or “asphyxiation.” Medical examiners sometimes chose to tell a grieving family, “It was a freak accident,” rather than “Your son/daughter drank him/herself to death.”
In 1994, a Federal law was passed requiring colleges to publish all student deaths. Finally, these tragic AOD stories are in newspapers and on national television; stories like the one about a 16-year-old cheerleader in Illinois who died after drinking a bottle of schnapps on a friend’s dare.
Remove Intoxicated Drivers (RID) began working on the problem of AOD in 1992. Based on discussions with victims’ families and county medical examiners, RID estimates as many as 4,000 deaths occur each year from alcohol overdosing: drinking too much alcohol too fast. Families learn, in the most difficult way, that alcohol can be a lethal drug.
Teenagers are particularly vulnerable to AOD. Of the first 8 cases RID discovered, half were 16 years old or younger. At least half were first-time drinkers and had never been drunk before. Five were put to bed by friends or their own parents to “sleep it off,” only to be found dead in the morning. Their friends or parents didn’t know that if a person drinks too much alcohol quickly before falling asleep, the alcohol will shut down breathing and heart functions and kill a person within a few hours.
Until now, the lack of public information about AOD has been a national failure. The following information literally saves lives. It could save a friend or maybe even you.
<b>Mechanisms of alcohol poisoning </b>
Alcohol depresses nerves that control involuntary actions such as breathing, the heart beat, and the gag reflex (prevents choking). A fatal dose of alcohol will eventually stop these functions. After the victim stops drinking, the heart keeps beating, and alcohol in the stomach continues to enter the bloodstream and circulate throughout the body.
<b>As a result, the following can happen: </b>
Victim chokes on own vomit
Breathing slows, becomes irregular, stops
Heart beats irregularly or stops
Hypothermia (low body temperature) leads to cardiac arrest
Hypoglycemia (too little blood sugar) leads to seizures
Even if the victim lives, AOD can lead to irreversible brain damage. Rapid binge drinking (which often happens on a bet or a dare) is especially dangerous because the victim can ingest a fatal dose before becoming unconscious.
<b>Critical signs for alcohol poisoning: </b>
Mental confusion, stupor, coma, or person cannot be roused
No response to pinching the skin
Vomiting while sleeping
Seizures
Slow breathing (less than 8 breaths per minute)
Irregular breathing (10 seconds or more between breaths)
Hypothermia (low body temperature), bluish skin color, paleness
Many people try different methods to reverse the effects of alcohol to become sober. Most of these methods are myths, and they don’t work.
<b>Some common myths: </b>
Drinking black coffee
Taking a cold bath or shower
Sleeping it off
Walking it off
<b>If you suspect that someone may have ingested a fatal dose of alcohol, help is required immediately: </b>
Call 911 or the emergency medical number.
Stay with the victim.
Keep the victim from choking on vomit.
Tell emergency medical technicians the symptoms and, if you know, how much alcohol the victim drank. Prompt action may save the life of a friend, or your own.
<b>When medical personnel arrive, they should: </b>
Protect the airway. This usually means inserting a tube into the trachea to protect it from vomit. Turning the victim on his/her side is not sufficient protection.
Administer oxygen.
Monitor breathing, and place victim on respirator if necessary.
Monitor glucose and other levels in blood.
Administer medication if convulsions are present.
<b>Some conventional treatments do not work for AOD: </b>
Pumping the stomach
Syrup of Ipecac to induce vomiting
Activated charcoal
Narcan (to reverse the effects of the central nervous system depressant)
<b>Bystanders (friends, parents, strangers) have a responsibility: </b>
Know the danger signals (see “Critical Signs” section).
Do not wait for all symptoms to be present.
Be aware that a person who has passed out may die.
If there is any suspicion of AOD, call 911 or the emergency number for help. Don’t try to guess the level of drunkeness.
<b>What you can do – A call to action </b>
Write letters to your local editor using this information the next time you notice a news story about an underage drinking incident or underage impaired driving crash.
Encourage your school principal to present programs on alcohol awareness in health classes.
Refuse to host underage drinking parties.
Take part in the RID county survey of alcohol-related deaths.
<b>For more information about alcohol poisoning, write or fax questions to: </b>
RID-USA, Inc.
P.O. Box 520
Schenectady, NY 12301
Fax: (518) 370-4917
<b>RID Celebrates Twentieth Anniversary, February 1998 </b>
Twenty years ago, RID began a successful but lonely confrontation with the legal system’s handling of impaired drivers in New York. In 1980, RID enabled the passage of laws curtailing plea bargaining, test refusals, leaving the scene of personal injury crashes, and placing self-funding enforcement measures in every county, along with other legislation that had been vetoed for years.
RID’s efforts supported a 23 percent drop in alcohol-related fatalities from 1981 to 1986, the best record in the nation for that period. New York and Utah still have the best last-3-year record in deterring fatal crashes, and under 25 percent of the reported road fatalities were due to legally intoxicated drivers.
<b>Other Milestones Initiated by RID: </b>
Comparative court audits on DWI sentencing
Victim impact statements read in open court at sentencing
Court-ordered victim impact panels
Anti-DWI citizen action manual How Can I Help, SNAP Campaign (Sane National Alcohol Policy). <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is a very serious problem imho. If the legal drinikng age is 21 then parties responsible for providing alcohol to minors need to be held accountable. To many of you this thread will seem trivial or silly, but a very real problem exists.
How can underage drinking be better regulated?
<a href='http://www.mayoclinic.com/invoke.cfm?id=HQ00199' target='_blank'>MayoClinic.com</a> does a good job of describing alcohol poisoning in response to a viewer's email. The peak Blood Alcohol Level occurs 60 to 90 minutes after ingestion when the stomach is empty.
From <a href='http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/PEOPLE/outreach/safesobr/15qp/web/idalc.html' target='_blank'>Campaign Safe and Sober</a>
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Alcohol Poisoning </b>
In 1984 a federal law required all states to set 21 as the legal age for purchase or public possession of alcoholic beverages. States that did not comply would lose a portion of their federal highway construction funding. The federal law was tied to highway construction funding because of the overwhelming evidence that lower drinking ages result in significantly higher motor vehicle fatalities involving young drivers. Since that time, many traffic safety organizations, including Remove Intoxicated Drivers (RID), have taken a leadership role in supporting efforts to increase compliance with the drinking age laws. Increased awareness about alcohol poisoning can play a key role in the prevention of underage drinking.
<b>Knowing the Facts Can Save Lives </b>
Until the 1990’s, deaths due to alcohol poisoning were largely ignored by the media. Families who lost a child due to AOD (alcohol overdose) suffered in silence. College campuses, where a great many of the deaths occurred, sought to avoid adverse publicity. Death certificates said “cardiac arrest” or “asphyxiation.” Medical examiners sometimes chose to tell a grieving family, “It was a freak accident,” rather than “Your son/daughter drank him/herself to death.”
In 1994, a Federal law was passed requiring colleges to publish all student deaths. Finally, these tragic AOD stories are in newspapers and on national television; stories like the one about a 16-year-old cheerleader in Illinois who died after drinking a bottle of schnapps on a friend’s dare.
Remove Intoxicated Drivers (RID) began working on the problem of AOD in 1992. Based on discussions with victims’ families and county medical examiners, RID estimates as many as 4,000 deaths occur each year from alcohol overdosing: drinking too much alcohol too fast. Families learn, in the most difficult way, that alcohol can be a lethal drug.
Teenagers are particularly vulnerable to AOD. Of the first 8 cases RID discovered, half were 16 years old or younger. At least half were first-time drinkers and had never been drunk before. Five were put to bed by friends or their own parents to “sleep it off,” only to be found dead in the morning. Their friends or parents didn’t know that if a person drinks too much alcohol quickly before falling asleep, the alcohol will shut down breathing and heart functions and kill a person within a few hours.
Until now, the lack of public information about AOD has been a national failure. The following information literally saves lives. It could save a friend or maybe even you.
<b>Mechanisms of alcohol poisoning </b>
Alcohol depresses nerves that control involuntary actions such as breathing, the heart beat, and the gag reflex (prevents choking). A fatal dose of alcohol will eventually stop these functions. After the victim stops drinking, the heart keeps beating, and alcohol in the stomach continues to enter the bloodstream and circulate throughout the body.
<b>As a result, the following can happen: </b>
Victim chokes on own vomit
Breathing slows, becomes irregular, stops
Heart beats irregularly or stops
Hypothermia (low body temperature) leads to cardiac arrest
Hypoglycemia (too little blood sugar) leads to seizures
Even if the victim lives, AOD can lead to irreversible brain damage. Rapid binge drinking (which often happens on a bet or a dare) is especially dangerous because the victim can ingest a fatal dose before becoming unconscious.
<b>Critical signs for alcohol poisoning: </b>
Mental confusion, stupor, coma, or person cannot be roused
No response to pinching the skin
Vomiting while sleeping
Seizures
Slow breathing (less than 8 breaths per minute)
Irregular breathing (10 seconds or more between breaths)
Hypothermia (low body temperature), bluish skin color, paleness
Many people try different methods to reverse the effects of alcohol to become sober. Most of these methods are myths, and they don’t work.
<b>Some common myths: </b>
Drinking black coffee
Taking a cold bath or shower
Sleeping it off
Walking it off
<b>If you suspect that someone may have ingested a fatal dose of alcohol, help is required immediately: </b>
Call 911 or the emergency medical number.
Stay with the victim.
Keep the victim from choking on vomit.
Tell emergency medical technicians the symptoms and, if you know, how much alcohol the victim drank. Prompt action may save the life of a friend, or your own.
<b>When medical personnel arrive, they should: </b>
Protect the airway. This usually means inserting a tube into the trachea to protect it from vomit. Turning the victim on his/her side is not sufficient protection.
Administer oxygen.
Monitor breathing, and place victim on respirator if necessary.
Monitor glucose and other levels in blood.
Administer medication if convulsions are present.
<b>Some conventional treatments do not work for AOD: </b>
Pumping the stomach
Syrup of Ipecac to induce vomiting
Activated charcoal
Narcan (to reverse the effects of the central nervous system depressant)
<b>Bystanders (friends, parents, strangers) have a responsibility: </b>
Know the danger signals (see “Critical Signs” section).
Do not wait for all symptoms to be present.
Be aware that a person who has passed out may die.
If there is any suspicion of AOD, call 911 or the emergency number for help. Don’t try to guess the level of drunkeness.
<b>What you can do – A call to action </b>
Write letters to your local editor using this information the next time you notice a news story about an underage drinking incident or underage impaired driving crash.
Encourage your school principal to present programs on alcohol awareness in health classes.
Refuse to host underage drinking parties.
Take part in the RID county survey of alcohol-related deaths.
<b>For more information about alcohol poisoning, write or fax questions to: </b>
RID-USA, Inc.
P.O. Box 520
Schenectady, NY 12301
Fax: (518) 370-4917
<b>RID Celebrates Twentieth Anniversary, February 1998 </b>
Twenty years ago, RID began a successful but lonely confrontation with the legal system’s handling of impaired drivers in New York. In 1980, RID enabled the passage of laws curtailing plea bargaining, test refusals, leaving the scene of personal injury crashes, and placing self-funding enforcement measures in every county, along with other legislation that had been vetoed for years.
RID’s efforts supported a 23 percent drop in alcohol-related fatalities from 1981 to 1986, the best record in the nation for that period. New York and Utah still have the best last-3-year record in deterring fatal crashes, and under 25 percent of the reported road fatalities were due to legally intoxicated drivers.
<b>Other Milestones Initiated by RID: </b>
Comparative court audits on DWI sentencing
Victim impact statements read in open court at sentencing
Court-ordered victim impact panels
Anti-DWI citizen action manual How Can I Help, SNAP Campaign (Sane National Alcohol Policy). <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is a very serious problem imho. If the legal drinikng age is 21 then parties responsible for providing alcohol to minors need to be held accountable. To many of you this thread will seem trivial or silly, but a very real problem exists.
How can underage drinking be better regulated?
Comments
As a child I often asked to taste what they were drinking and they'd always offer me a sip. I couldn't stand the stuff personally and it wasn't till I was about 15 that I started drinking myself. I graduated from cider to beer to shots and some wines/champagne but I rarely ever get completely plastered and I have often gone out without drinking anything as I really don't need to get drunk to have fun (I'm usually first on the dance floor, alcohol or not).
I can't help but feel there is a culture to drinking (certainly there is in England) and if it was seen as a less important part of a night out then people wouldn't do it so much.
In the morning I woke up with vomit lodged in the back of my throat and on my bed. I was throwing up intermittently through the next day until roughly 6pm.
Whether it's a wise move or not, I still drink when I go out. I consider myself a responsible drinker for the most part. I have a personal rule of sorts; when ever I go to a party or gathering, I walk there whenever possible and carry my alcohol with me. If I have too much to carry all the way, I have too much. If I think I won't be able to walk home at the end of the night if I have another; I don't.
I'm not not going to preach "only have x standard drinks when you go out", everyone's different. Acknowledge your limits and stay within them.
As for underage drinking, to put it bluntly, it cannot be moderated to any great effect. I'm old enough to legally drink, but I've been to enough parties with people who aren't to know that they will always find a way to get alcohol.
From my expirience, there is reall only two things a parent/caregiver can do to moderate underage drinking on an individual level. Give them a responsibility; if the responsibility is a reasonable one they'll probably try and stick to it, and if they don't, their friends will usually make them stick to it.
The other option, which I can't imagine will be popular with the soccermoms of the forums, is to buy their alcohol for them and then the next day, perhaps inquire how much of it they drank; chances are they'll appreciate the concern, it also serves to limit the knowledge they have of getting alcohol themselves (have to learn to crawl before you can walk).
In the morning I woke up with vomit lodged in the back of my throat and on my bed. I was throwing up intermittently through the next day until roughly 6pm.
Whether it's a wise move or not, I still drink when I go out. I consider myself a responsible drinker for the most part. I have a personal rule of sorts; when ever I go to a party or gathering, I walk there whenever possible and carry my alcohol with me. If I have too much to carry all the way, I have too much. If I think I won't be able to walk home at the end of the night if I have another; I don't.
I'm not not going to preach "only have x standard drinks when you go out", everyone's different. Acknowledge your limits and stay within them.
As for underage drinking, to put it bluntly, it cannot be moderated to any great effect. I'm old enough to legally drink, but I've been to enough parties with people who aren't to know that they will always find a way to get alcohol.
From my expirience, there is reall only two things a parent/caregiver can do to moderate underage drinking on an individual level. Give them a responsibility; if the responsibility is a reasonable one they'll probably try and stick to it, and if they don't, their friends will usually make them stick to it.
The other option, which I can't imagine will be popular with the soccermoms of the forums, is to buy their alcohol for them and then the next day, perhaps inquire how much of it they drank; chances are they'll appreciate the concern, it also serves to limit the knowledge they have of getting alcohol themselves (have to learn to crawl before you can walk).<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
More parents buy alcohol for their kids than a lot of people realize, hoping if their children drink within the confines of their humble abode they'll drink responsibly. I would disagree with this.
Seems all parents can do is raise their kids from early on to be aware of the pitfalls of drinking, and not drink themselves. That's my oppinion, we welcome yours. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Or i never really got to the party becourse i drank so much i couldnt walk without support so my parents had to come and pick me up.
im 14 and its really teh first time i drink, i didnt know when to stop so i just drank like if it was juice <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Or i never really got to the party becourse i drank so much i couldnt walk without support so my parents had to come and pick me up.
im 14 and its really teh first time i drink, i didnt know when to stop so i just drank like if it was juice <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
And you STILL have internet access? Good rents you have. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Or i never really got to the party becourse i drank so much i couldnt walk without support so my parents had to come and pick me up.
im 14 and its really teh first time i drink, i didnt know when to stop so i just drank like if it was juice <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And you STILL have internet access? Good rents you have. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
yeah they took it alot more nice than i expected <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->¨
nice time i wanna reach the party
Or i never really got to the party becourse i drank so much i couldnt walk without support so my parents had to come and pick me up.
im 14 and its really teh first time i drink, i didnt know when to stop so i just drank like if it was juice <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And you STILL have internet access? Good rents you have. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
yeah they took it alot more nice than i expected <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->¨
nice time i wanna reach the party <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually his parents are taking it the RIGHT WAY..........
Its his choice.... all they can do at this point is advise him
Also... you handled it well... they respect you and your friends for caling them verse's trying to handle it yourself... or drive you home or anything that would ahve been incredibly stupid
Thats the point to keep in mind here.... Everyone drinks.... But there is a difference between drinking stupidly and drinking smartly... ya made a mistake... but you diddnt make it worse.. and you handled it well
And ill bet my left nut you learned a lesson too...... Dont drink alcohol like its juice..... drink fine... get trashed fine...... dont die and dont be stupid....
~Jason
In the morning I woke up with vomit lodged in the back of my throat and on my bed. I was throwing up intermittently through the next day until roughly 6pm.
Whether it's a wise move or not, I still drink when I go out. I consider myself a responsible drinker for the most part. I have a personal rule of sorts; when ever I go to a party or gathering, I walk there whenever possible and carry my alcohol with me. If I have too much to carry all the way, I have too much. If I think I won't be able to walk home at the end of the night if I have another; I don't.
I'm not not going to preach "only have x standard drinks when you go out", everyone's different. Acknowledge your limits and stay within them.
As for underage drinking, to put it bluntly, it cannot be moderated to any great effect. I'm old enough to legally drink, but I've been to enough parties with people who aren't to know that they will always find a way to get alcohol.
From my expirience, there is reall only two things a parent/caregiver can do to moderate underage drinking on an individual level. Give them a responsibility; if the responsibility is a reasonable one they'll probably try and stick to it, and if they don't, their friends will usually make them stick to it.
The other option, which I can't imagine will be popular with the soccermoms of the forums, is to buy their alcohol for them and then the next day, perhaps inquire how much of it they drank; chances are they'll appreciate the concern, it also serves to limit the knowledge they have of getting alcohol themselves (have to learn to crawl before you can walk).<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
More parents buy alcohol for their kids than a lot of people realize, hoping if their children drink within the confines of their humble abode they'll drink responsibly. I would disagree with this.
Seems all parents can do is raise their kids from early on to be aware of the pitfalls of drinking, and not drink themselves. That's my oppinion, we welcome yours. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, my parents have raised me in a different way. My dad would always drink (never more than one or two at a time) and let me have little bits, working myself up to about one beer a night on a special occasion (weekend movie, holiday, etc.)
It wasn't until i went to college that it occured to me to drink more than one beer, and everything that was served at frats was Beast, Bud Light, Miller Lite, and other crap. Then I realized... I was raised to think that "beer" meant lager or darker.
So I don't drink more than... say 6 beers max, but the ones I do drink are normally Guinness Extra Stout, Sam Adams, etc.
As for alcohol poisoning, I'm pretty sure having "alcohol poisoning" doesn't mean death. My room mate was pretty sick one night and was throwing up yellowish bile and I kept close watch on him (talking to him, making sure he didn't pass out, seeing how bad he was) and was pretty sure he was going to be alright. I was 100% going to call paramedics if he became unresponcive or stopped breathing or passed out, etc.
After being at college for three semesters i've seen about three or four people get that bad, and it isn't pretty.
As for me, I've only vomited from alcohol once... and that was on a very stupid move to drink three boilermakers and two more beers on top of it after eating very little, then going to sleep without proper hydration. Whiskey is bad bad stuff.
I do think that a preset age emphasizes the idea that booze is special and anybody who spends time with jr. high or high school students can tell you that angry teenagers sometimes do things simply because they're not supposed to--I think it sends a confusing message to say that liqueur isn't special, then turn around and tell a teen they can't have any. My personal rebellion was against municipal curfews and the idea that I had to do well in school, but the reasons were basically the same.
Most of my friends had an alcohol-related party on their 21st birthdays. The fact that there was a formal right of passage should indicate that booze does have a special place in the minds of at least this circle of people. I'm not much of a drinker, but I got plastered a few times in college, usually celebrating someone's 21st birthday.
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<b>The Drinking Age Should Be Lowered</b>
<i>Interview with Dr. Ruth Engs</i>
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Dr. Hanson--
Dr. Engs, could you explain your proposal to lower the drinking age?
Dr. Engs--
I'd be glad to. I propose that the drinking age be lowered to about 18 or 19 and permit those of legal age to consume in socially controlled environment such as restaurants and official school and university functions. Currently, we prohibit 20-year-olds from sipping champagne at their own weddings! I also propose that individuals of any age be permitted to consume alcohol under the direct supervision of their parents in their own homes.
Dr. Hanson--
How would this be more effective than the 21 age laws?
Dr. Engs--
Although the legal purchase age is 21, a majority of young people under this age consume alcohol, and too many of them do so in an irresponsible manner. This is largely because drinking is seen by these youth as an enticing "forbidden fruit," a "badge of rebellion against authority," and a symbol of adulthood. Our nation has twice tried prohibition, first at the state level in the 1850's and at the national level beginning in 1920. These efforts to prevent drinking were unenforceable and created serious social problems such as widespread disrespect for law, the growth of organized crime, and the development of immoderate consumption patterns.
The flaunting of the current age-specific prohibition is readily apparent among young people who, since the increase in the minimum legal drinking age, have tended to drink in a more abuse manner than do those of legal age. This, of course, is exactly what happened in the general public during national Prohibition.
Dr. Hanson--
So raising the legal drinking age has made things worse?
Dr. Engs--
Yes. Like national Prohibition , it has been counter-productive. Raising the drinking age was much worse than doing nothing.
Dr. Hanson--
But hasn't drinking been going down among young people?
Dr. Engs--
Yes, the proportion of the American population who drink (including young people) has been going down since about 1980. That was long before the states were required to raise the drinking age in 1987. And of course legislation wouldn't have limited consumption among those aged 21 or older.
On the other hand, while fewer young people are drinking and their average consumption levels have been dropping (along with that of the general population), more younger people tend to drink abusively when they do consume. This change occurred after the increase in the drinking age.
Dr. Hanson--
So, it's a little like what happened during national Prohibition?
Dr. Engs--
Exactly. Prohibition tended to destroy moderation and instead promoted great excess and abusive drinking. People tended to gulp alcohol in large quantities on those occasions when they could obtain it. The notorious speakeasies didn't exist before prohibition, when people could drink legally and leisurely. What we currently have is age-specific prohibition and young people are forced to create their own "speakeasies" in dorm rooms and other secret locations where they, too, must gulp their alcohol in the absence of moderating social control.
Dr. Hanson--
You're saying that simply lowering the drinking age would solve the problem of drinking abuse among young people?
Dr. Engs--
Unfortunately, it wouldn't solve the problem. However, it would be an important step in the right direction.
The experience of many societies and groups demonstrates that drinking problems are reduced when young people learn at home from their parents how to drink in a moderate and responsible manner. As parents we need to be good role models in what we say and do.
And lowering the drinking age would help send the important message that drinking is, in itself, not evidence of maturity...... that responsible consumption for those who choose to drink is evidence of maturity.
We need to reinforce the norm of moderation by making it clear that the abuse of alcohol is completely unacceptable by anyone. This would help stress that it is not drinking that is the problem but rather drinking abusively that is the problem.
Dr. Hanson--
These ideas may sound great, but would they really work?
Dr. Engs--
These proposals are not based on speculation but on the proven example set by many societies and groups around the world that have long used alcohol extensively with very few problems.
On the other hand, our current prohibition directed against the consumption of alcohol by young people (who can marry, serve in the military, vote, enter into legal contracts, and shoulder adult responsibilities) is clearly not working. We need to abandon this failed and demeaning folly and replace it with a proven, realistic, and successful approach to reducing drinking problems.
Dr. Hanson--
Thank you, Dr. Engs, for sharing your expertise.
Dr. Engs--
You're welcome.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Pretty much what Cagey said then. I'll see if I can pull up some stats on these countries.
Alcohol could be made illegal. Might as well do the same for tobacco. Then everyone can be happy clean sober in jesus-land.
On a side note, its impossible to OD on marijuana unless it is laced with another chemical. The carcinogens in the smoke can be cut down drasticly using bubblers or vaporators. But wait... the american public frowns on the harmless herb... and promotes drowning oneself in the poison (alcohol) in the presense of peers.
<!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Alcohol could be made illegal. Might as well do the same for tobacco. Then everyone can be happy clean sober in jesus-land.
On a side note, its impossible to OD on marijuana unless it is laced with another chemical. The carcinogens in the smoke can be cut down drasticly using bubblers or vaporators. But wait... the american public frowns on the harmless herb... and promotes drowning oneself in the poison (alcohol) in the presense of peers.
<!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I've known people that smoke pot and people that drink. The people that drink are normally only out of it when they're drunk and are fine the next day.
People that i've known to smoke just kinda start a downward spiral to nothingness.
I started drinking at 12..... Liquor ONLY......
Diddnt have beer until i was 14......
Still cant take beer... dont really like it... cant get as drunk off of it because i simply cant drink 6-8 beers.... id rather make one mixed 50/50 with vodka or rum or do a few shots of tequila.....
I wouldnt consider myself a heavy drinker, i wouldnt consider myself irresponsible
I do get crazy when im drunk... no doubt.. and ive puked several times....... but ive only had ONE blackout... of which i never want to do again... and ive never driven drunk EVER
I call my parents, my friends, my enemies.... but i wont get behind the wheel, and i will pick up any friend who needs it.... Simpl as that.. Drink whenever u want whatever u want... just dont drive and dont die.....
The main problem with dirnking is it makes you feel invulnerable...
My town when someone decides its his turn to be come a "drinker" we flipping babysit his **** all night..... he wants to puff a cigarette fine... he wants to drink fine.... until he is trashed... then he is cut off... that way he doesent get into trouble.... watch the kid... let him have his drunken fun...
Then the next morning he wakes up with a hangover, cigarettes on his breath, and u basically tell him straight up now he knows what NOT do do when drunk....
Its easy... once you recognize that feeling of invulnerablilty... its disguistingly easy to surpress it.....
Note: i dont mean not have fun... im simply saying you arent invulnerable and actions ahve consequences... as long as you keep that in your head while drinking... you are fine.....
Hell... even the night i blacked out (once, as ive said before) i woke up back in my dorm and was told how i stopped a guy from driving and walked (actually was carried by 2 of my boys as i had passed out) home verse's get in a car with another guy who had been drinking......
SO basically in my town when u drink for the first time.. u let people know... and we watch you... we take care of u..... and we teach u... how to be responsible about it...
No it doesent work for everyone... and i have a few friends that have DUI's, drive drunk, and do heroin and ****..... but... id say thats like 3 percent of the people in my town who drink.... The large amount of us are responsible about it... right up to the point where the cops will come in and talk to us by name.... knowing full well we wont do anything stupid and just tell us (underage drinkers) to simply keep it down and leave without making a single arrest.....
However i do liev in a college town since i was 5... so this may be the reason for this... however it works surprisingly well... and very few people in my town are "stupid drunks" even tho id say 70-80 percent of my classmates did drink frequently.. as in more than twice a month.....
~Jason
Oh and Depot, while I agree that parents shouldn't drink too much that doesn't mean that they can't drink responsibily the same as everyone else. My dad was, at various stages in his life, pretty much a full blown alcoholic and if anything he's an example of what not to be, I have no interest in following in his footsteps... Hence me disowning him <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
On alcohol poisoning, I've seen people do stupid things with alcohol and come back with nothing more than a headache (although in one case it was a 48 hour hangover where he downed a bottle of vodka on holiday, was pretty amazing <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->). It isn't the amount you drink, it's whether you drink in a safe environment with people around you who will make sure to take the appropriate steps. You can't die from it unless you've been completely abandoned imo.
Statistics will show if the parents drink (be it in excess or not), smoke, or are abusive their children are much more prone to do/be the same. That's all I meant.
[stereotype]Besides, we Brits need alcohol or we'd all be so shy that we'd never pull <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> [/stereotype]
Alcohol could be made illegal. Might as well do the same for tobacco. Then everyone can be happy clean sober in jesus-land.
On a side note, its impossible to OD on marijuana unless it is laced with another chemical. The carcinogens in the smoke can be cut down drasticly using bubblers or vaporators. But wait... the american public frowns on the harmless herb... and promotes drowning oneself in the poison (alcohol) in the presense of peers.
<!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I've known people that smoke pot and people that drink. The people that drink are normally only out of it when they're drunk and are fine the next day.
People that i've known to smoke just kinda start a downward spiral to nothingness. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're comparing normal drinking with what appears to be bums. What if I compare hopeless alcoholics with moderate marijuana users?
Do you not believe in moderate marijuana users?
<!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Alcohol could be made illegal. Might as well do the same for tobacco. Then everyone can be happy clean sober in jesus-land.
On a side note, its impossible to OD on marijuana unless it is laced with another chemical. The carcinogens in the smoke can be cut down drasticly using bubblers or vaporators. But wait... the american public frowns on the harmless herb... and promotes drowning oneself in the poison (alcohol) in the presense of peers.
<!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I've known people that smoke pot and people that drink. The people that drink are normally only out of it when they're drunk and are fine the next day.
People that i've known to smoke just kinda start a downward spiral to nothingness. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're comparing normal drinking with what appears to be bums. What if I compare hopeless alcoholics with moderate marijuana users?
Do you not believe in moderate marijuana users?
<!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I've never known anybody to pretty much give up on life due to alcohol. With weed i've seen several cases.
That wasn't necessary, nor fair. Bad Trev.
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I agree. The only person I know who has had alcohol posioning (in a serious form, I've heard that techincaly if your throwing up its the early stages of alcohol posioning....not sure if thats really true) had parents who compltely gave up drinking once he was born. They figured that this would a set a good example for him, and were rather su[ised when he ended up in the hospital.
On the iotherhand, most of my friends and relatives, and myself, had paresnt who drank resposibly and none of us (excpet for me...but thats another matter...) seems to have any problem with alcohol, consuming it far more resposibly than the afore mentioned kid who went hogwild as soon as he got access to it . Granted this is al ancedotal evidence at best, but its still illustrates the point.
Dr. Phil would agree .... ... .. . <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
EDIT: on some short relflection I do agree with that there might have been more factors invovled.
Honestly, I guess you should lower the age restriction for soft alcohol to 16 and the teens will stop drinking for the thrill.
Every teenager does test his limits at least once in his life. Every teen once gets sick from drinking, you won't prevent this.
At some point, you just have to get drunk, thats part of growing up I guess.
It's actually really hard... for me, anyway.
If I want to get all out smashed I switch to a little thing called Sam Adams Double Bock. 9% alcohol, 4X the hopps of their normal lager.
Give some to your local frat boy and watch him get sick.
lower / remove the drinking age limit
teach kids at a YOUNG AGE to drink responsibly / properly
I would concur that having an age limit suggests that drinking is the purview of the adult, but removing said limit suggests that parents can be expected to monitor and take care of their children.
I would argue that if their children are ignorant enough to drink themselves to death, then the parents have already proved themselves incompetent. Did they not think that their children would be likely to run into alcohol in the real world?
The problem lies with the fact that we don't educate our citizens very well. Changing the legal age of consumption is like deciding to re-arrange the deck chairs on the Titanic.
Finally, you have to ask yourself just why people are taking a drug that erodes feelings of responsibility and boosts self-esteem. The problem does not lie with the age limit.
[Personal note: If anyone does have any questions about alcohol, please ask. Both my parents were chronic alcoholics and I myself was a chronic alcoholic for several years. At my lowest point, I'd be drinking a litre of white spirits before lunch and another before I went to the pub at around 5pm. I've also worked as a cocktail barman, so I've seen things from the other side of the oak. Finally, I'm Half-Irish/Half-Welsh by genetics, English by birth. Essentially, what I don't know about the sociological impacts of alchohol abuse could be written in a space the size of a frat boy's pupil.]
It's actually really hard... for me, anyway.
If I want to get all out smashed I switch to a little thing called Sam Adams Double Bock. 9% alcohol, 4X the hopps of their normal lager.
Give some to your local frat boy and watch him get sick. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
9%
i got drunk on vodka, thats 37.5%...
Your rules in america are insane <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
ps. this is to counter your bragging
It's actually really hard... for me, anyway.
If I want to get all out smashed I switch to a little thing called Sam Adams Double Bock. 9% alcohol, 4X the hopps of their normal lager.
Give some to your local frat boy and watch him get sick. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
9%
i got drunk on vodka, thats 37.5%...
Your rules in america are insane <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
ps. this is to counter your bragging <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
They're not rules, they're laws. And it's not easy to change laws, unfortunately.