Stephen Hawking
BulletHead
Join Date: 2004-07-22 Member: 30049Members
Join Date: 2004-07-22 Member: 30049Members
in Discussions
Comments
Link please.
Second I think you are mistaken with wormholes which are like shortcuts through time and space so you can get someplace faster than light without actually moving faster than light.
I've once read some stuff about how black holes are suppose to get rid of their mass. I think it was Hawking who said something about the black hole being a white hole in another uiverse blowing away all the energy he gathered in this universe. My teacher once told us some stuff about the evolution of a black hole, although I can't quite remember what he exactly said. What I do know is it has nothing to do with other dimensions and the such (a black hole radiates Röntgen).
Also if a black hole did have a link to another dimension/universe it would be useless. It would rip your body and spaceship apart and convert your very atoms into pure energy. It's also impossible to send a message through it because the energy will just be added to the black hole.
As Blammo said, if it does actually lead to another dimension; there is no chance of anything surviving. I do not believe they lead anywhere, as I do not believe they are not holes in space.. just voids.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Also if a black hole did have a link to another dimension/universe it would be useless. It would rip your body and spaceship apart and convert your very atoms into pure energy. It's also impossible to send a message through it because the energy will just be added to the black hole.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
A perfect example of a bunch of complete bollocks.
A black hole is just a really really dense blob of matter. Anything that passes too close to the center gets sucked in and added. Pretty much utterly destroyed. Recently Dr. Hawking admitted he was wrong in his belief that any information that entered a black hole was lost forever.
Little background: Space isn't empty, it's a seething froth of quantum particles popping in and out of existence, always in pairs and oppositely charged. So as soon as they appear, they annihilate.
At the event horizon of a black hole this froth is bubbling away, but sometimes a speck of antimatter will spiral down into the black hole, reducing its mass by a little bit. The other particle whizzes off into space. This is called Hawking Radiation. By this process a black hole will (eventually) dissipate. Hence releasing its information back to the universe. Of course this information is only theoretically available. In reality it would be impossible to know if the black hole was formed by several trillion tons of encyclopaedia Britannica or a hundred billion comets and a couple suns by looking at the aftermath of a black hole de-blobing.
Falling into a black hole means death. If it’s a really big one, you’ll die pretty slowly. If it’s a small one you’ll die quickly and horribly as the gravitational tidal forces tear you apart from head to foot.
Wormholes, on the other hand, are even more theoretical than black holes. They are incredibly temperamental. Even the most optimistic wormhole models calculate that as soon as any amount of mass travelled into them the link would pop out of existence under the load. So it’s not likely we’ll be travelling to the gamma sector via Deep-Space-Nine anytime soon.
--Scythe--
--Scythe--<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Those are just my precious, fragile dreams you're trampling underfoot. It's cool, happiness is way overrated anyway.
*cry*
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Also if a black hole did have a link to another dimension/universe it would be useless. It would rip your body and spaceship apart and convert your very atoms into pure energy. It's also impossible to send a message through it because the energy will just be added to the black hole.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
A perfect example of a bunch of complete bollocks.
A black hole is just a really really dense blob of matter. Anything that passes too close to the center gets sucked in and added. Pretty much utterly destroyed. Recently Dr. Hawking admitted he was wrong in his belief that any information that entered a black hole was lost forever.
Little background: Space isn't empty, it's a seething froth of quantum particles popping in and out of existence, always in pairs and oppositely charged. So as soon as they appear, they annihilate.
At the event horizon of a black hole this froth is bubbling away, but sometimes a speck of antimatter will spiral down into the black hole, reducing its mass by a little bit. The other particle whizzes off into space. This is called Hawking Radiation. By this process a black hole will (eventually) dissipate. Hence releasing its information back to the universe. Of course this information is only theoretically available. In reality it would be impossible to know if the black hole was formed by several trillion tons of encyclopaedia Britannica or a hundred billion comets and a couple suns by looking at the aftermath of a black hole de-blobing.
Falling into a black hole means death. If it’s a really big one, you’ll die pretty slowly. If it’s a small one you’ll die quickly and horribly as the gravitational tidal forces tear you apart from head to foot.
Wormholes, on the other hand, are even more theoretical than black holes. They are incredibly temperamental. Even the most optimistic wormhole models calculate that as soon as any amount of mass travelled into them the link would pop out of existence under the load. So it’s not likely we’ll be travelling to the gamma sector via Deep-Space-Nine anytime soon.
--Scythe-- <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
First off all, I don't get my **** from the discovery channel. I study physics and get my random words from Professors, Doctors and scientific books.
Second, I never said that black holes where gateways to another dimension. I just said IF it were true it would be useless.
Third, a black hole is way to dense to consist of matter, so the matter must be in a state never seen and thought of before or it's energy (or both). Hence my atoms to energy argument.
Fourth, I know about hawkings radiation. Most people don't know what antimatter is, so why explaining how a black hole dissipates if they don't understand it anyway. It would be off topic anyway.
Fifth, Big or small black hole, dieing is always fast because time doesn't slow down for the victim.
Sixth, Why hate threads like this? People will always say stuff that's not true. But this is something that intrigues alot of people. I don't see the harm in explaining this sort of stuff to them, if it makes them happy why not? The question was very badly formulated because black holes just don't lead somewhere, but that has been cleared up now and he is slightly more knowledgable now so the purpose of this thread has served.
Which would kind of suggest that black holes were a way of travelling through time, albeit to a universe in the process of collapse.
Just a thought.
Have you actually looked closely at the definition of an Event Horizon? It is the distance from the black hole at which, if a particle was traveling away from the black hole at the speed of light, the particle would reach an infinite distance away and then stop (assuming no other matter in the universe to exert forces on it).
That means a particle <i>inside</i> the event horizon can still travel outside of it a finite distance--it won't reach infinity, but it could very easily reach something else like another star, with its own gravity well, which would then pull the particle in and prevent it from falling back to the Black Hole.
I don't think the time slowdown doesn't reach asymptote at the horizon either, though I don't recall what the equation is for time-slowdown, so I can't check it. So an observer could most likely see you falling through the event horizon, and maybe even coming back out of it.
Your right about the time slowdown, this only happends when traveling at very high speeds. When your falling into a black hole you won't necessarily be traveling at a high speed.
Also note that "escape velocity" is calculated based on objects with no propulsion. If you shoot a bullet in the air at 400 mph (blind guess), it will soon fall to earth again because 400 MPH is less than escape velocity. But if you launch a spaceship into the air at 50 MPH (takeoff velocity is pretty low), it will reach orbit because it continues to spend fuel to fight gravity on its way up.
Similarly, an object inside a Black Holes event horizon may not be able to escape on its own...but if it has an engine on it for propulsion, escape would be quite possible. (assuming the ship structure was sturdy enough to withstand the tidal forces there). Now, it probably wouldn't be possible with today's conventional engines--once inside the black hole you'd need speeds in excess of 1/2 the velocity of light just to stay in orbit. But it is theoretically possible with stronger engines.
According to "Hyper Space" by Michio Kaku, Hawkings ideas are that there are multiple "bubbles" of universe floating around and that these bubbles can be connected with wormholes. Now don't start getting excited, becuase the laws of physics would likely worked totally differently in each of these universes. While life is all cool and works here, somehwere else molecules may not forum because atoms don't bind. Maybe you can't even get atoms because whatever supernatural force keeps a core of all positively charged particles (protons) together here is non-existant there. Needless to say, traveling to this sort of universe would not be wise, if travel was possible at all.
The book also touches on some mathematical experiments that "prove" that said travel IS possible, albiet only if something called "exotic matter" exists. Which basically means "if we can find some kinda matter with the fantastic properties we need," where those properties are pretty much anything.
Second I think you are mistaken with wormholes which are like shortcuts through time and space so you can get someplace faster than light without actually moving faster than light.
I've once read some stuff about how black holes are suppose to get rid of their mass. I think it was Hawking who said something about the black hole being a white hole in another uiverse blowing away all the energy he gathered in this universe. My teacher once told us some stuff about the evolution of a black hole, although I can't quite remember what he exactly said. What I do know is it has nothing to do with other dimensions and the such (a black hole radiates Röntgen).
Also if a black hole did have a link to another dimension/universe it would be useless. It would rip your body and spaceship apart and convert your very atoms into pure energy. It's also impossible to send a message through it because the energy will just be added to the black hole. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
that's just it... earlier this year, Hawking repealed that theory as he discovered a black hole that FILLED UP 0o'
Yes, he says his first "words" (in so much as he cannot speak) were Oh My God
This topic is thrashing my knowledge of Quantum Physics to it's limit (Hey... I'm only in high school <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> )
No, passing thru a black hole is not possible... yet. If we could, and it is THEORETICALLY POSSIBLE, negate gravity (via an electromagnetic discharge that would distort space around us... aka not yet producable) we could potentialy "skip" off a black hole's event horiozon. That would be THE only way to escape a black hole as you would be super-accelerated to about warp 2 (think ST: Voyage Home- the slingshot around the sun- same principal)
I'm going to bed... more tomororw... 3:30 am is not a good time to post about Quantum/Meta physics 0o'
Second, I never said that black holes where gateways to another dimension. I just said IF it were true it would be useless.
Third, a black hole is way to dense to consist of matter, so the matter must be in a state never seen and thought of before or it's energy (or both). Hence my atoms to energy argument.
Fourth, I know about hawkings radiation. Most people don't know what antimatter is, so why explaining how a black hole dissipates if they don't understand it anyway. It would be off topic anyway.
Fifth, Big or small black hole, dieing is always fast because time doesn't slow down for the victim.
Sixth, Why hate threads like this? People will always say stuff that's not true. But this is something that intrigues alot of people. I don't see the harm in explaining this sort of stuff to them, if it makes them happy why not? The question was very badly formulated because black holes just don't lead somewhere, but that has been cleared up now and he is slightly more knowledgable now so the purpose of this thread has served. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ok. Sorry for coming across as hostile. I had a headache at the time. People have a hard enough time recognising my intention from my writing as it is.
I suggest you go to the library and pick up Kip Thorne's "Black holes and time warps: Einstein's outrageous legacy". I've read it and I found it a relatively light read. Relative to say... "A brief history of Time" or "In search of Schrödinger’s cat". It gives a very detailed explanation into the workings of black holes and other space oddities. It also goes over how one could go about building a time machine, given enough time and materials...
As for your point five: No. Falling into a small black hole is much more horrible than falling into a larger one due to the tidal forces induced in your body:
<img src='http://xs30.xs.to/pics/05211/blackholes.JPG' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
Observe that in the smaller black hole, though the event horizon is much smaller, the gravitational gradient lines are tighter together. This means that there's a greater difference between the force pulling on your feet than what's pulling on your head. Right now sitting on earth, these two forces are the same. But falling into a black hole is a different matter. You would be torn head from toe. For the larger black hole you can see that your body crosses less gradient lines so is stressed less. You could, in theory, get right up close to the event horizon of a sufficiently big black hole and feel almost no tidal forces.
Again, I strongly recommend “Black holes and time warps”. It’s a really good read and it comes across as having been written for the slightly-above-laymen’s market. Another book in the field of advanced physics that I suggest you read if you’re interested would be “Q is for Quantum” by an author who’s name escapes me…
--Scythe--
Edit: I would also like to point out that I wasn't fingering you specifically when I quoted you. That was just a choice piece of nonsense. I've found a new one:
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If we could, and it is THEORETICALLY POSSIBLE, negate gravity (via an electromagnetic discharge that would distort space around us... aka not yet producable) we could potentialy "skip" off a black hole's event horiozon. That would be THE only way to escape a black hole as you would be super-accelerated to about warp 2 (think ST: Voyage Home- the slingshot around the sun- same principal)<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
An event horizon isn't like an atmosphere. It's a purely mathematical point-of-no-return distance from the singularity. "If you go past this line, you aren't coming out." sort of thing. It's not a "bubble".
Oh and warp factors aren't a real measurement of velocity... yet. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
But I dunno, hawking is a genious so who knows, I'm no where near as smart as him.
Warp 1 is lightspeed *10^0
warp 2 is lightspeed * 10^1
warp 3 is lightspeed * 10^2
ect ect ect
Though you NEVER move the speed OF light
What WARP drive does is COMPRESS space in front of you and EXPAND it behind you, thus "bending" the universe for you <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Theoretically possible, but not technilogically feasable YET
hmmm flying with just an anti-gravity engine on my back... *daydreams*..
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> But you don't need to reach warp 2 to travel out of an event horizon. All you need is Warp 0.51, because at the point where escape velocity = c, orbital velocity = 0.5 * c. So at 0.51c, you could orbit the black hole, and move slightly away from it, passing above the event horizon in the process.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Your right, escape velocity doesn't count accelleration. But I'm still puzzled, when a particle is thrown at the speed of light from the horizon he will slow down till a stop at an infinite distance.
When a ray of light is thrown this all get's confusing cause light isn't allowed to travel slower than the speed of light (in that particular material or vacuum). Light is going to move faster and faster as it get's further away from the black hole. But this isn't possible since light always travels at the speed of light. If this were true the space ship at the horizon can do nothing to go faster than the particular light ray. So if the ship can't go faster than the light ray how is it to escape the horizon if light can't?
My thinking here is probably flawed somewhere but I can't discover it myself..
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->As for your point five: No. Falling into a small black hole is much more horrible than falling into a larger one due to the tidal forces induced in your body:<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
After alot of pondering, I agree the gradient is indeed greater at a smaller black hole <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->. My fault here was thinking that a bigger hole means a bigger force, but it's the difference in force that does the hurting.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Your right, escape velocity doesn't count accelleration. But I'm still puzzled, when a particle is thrown at the speed of light from the horizon he will slow down till a stop at an infinite distance.
When a ray of light is thrown this all get's confusing cause light isn't allowed to travel slower than the speed of light (in that particular material or vacuum). Light is going to move faster and faster as it get's further away from the black hole. But this isn't possible since light always travels at the speed of light. If this were true the space ship at the horizon can do nothing to go faster than the particular light ray. So if the ship can't go faster than the light ray how is it to escape the horizon if light can't?
My thinking here is probably flawed somewhere but I can't discover it myself.. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Light does indeed make it confusing--but thats partially because rather than slowing down, the light bends. I have no idea how it decides which direction to bend in, if the force happens to be directly behind it. I also don't know how to calculate how much it bends. So I'm not really sure of the behavior of light around the event horizon--I don't even know if light can in fact escape from just inside an event horizon. I would guess that it probably would, but it would be all distorted. Light from further in wouldn't be able to escape, but light given off near the horizon might be able to. So you'd still have the result of making the "black hole" look black, but the barrier that you couldn't see through wouldn't be exactly at the event horizon.
*/me ponders ellipses and other mathematical constructs for a few minutes*
*gives up*