Max E_polys?
WarpZone
Join Date: 2002-11-03 Member: 6264Members
Join Date: 2002-11-03 Member: 6264Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Those func_seethroughs add up, you know.</div> I'm working on a map. r_speeds hover comfortably around 500 in the marine spawn room, but the e_polys are over 1500, with just the Command Console in view.
I know the NS models are high-res and stuff, so a lot of that is probably the CC. But what is a reasonable number of e_polys? Do we have even a ballpark figure?
If anyone knows what a good maximum e_poly count is for an NS map, please reply to this thread. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
I know the NS models are high-res and stuff, so a lot of that is probably the CC. But what is a reasonable number of e_polys? Do we have even a ballpark figure?
If anyone knows what a good maximum e_poly count is for an NS map, please reply to this thread. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
Comments
The only thing I wouldn't suggest is adding a ton of prefab models (like the chairs in NS Hera) in one area
Hope that helps.
**Edit**
Damn, you beat me Greedo..you and your puny, undersize replies <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Oh well, then. Nevermind! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Anyways, I thought I'd mention that contrary to popular belief, e_poly is not only model entities, it is all entities. Infact, the 'e' in e_ploy stands for entity I believe. The 'w' in w_poly is for world. It's easy to tell which will add to which poly count. When your mapping you either make the walls in the level with world brushes, or you make it with entitie brushes by converting a world brush into an ent, like a func_wall for instance. The func_wall in this case is technicaly considered the same as a model, except for it's more robust clipping and propertys. Therefor, one actualy does have control over e_poly. Cut down on the amount of entitie walls and objects that you have in one area. Perhaps a hint brush might be in order.(Entirely dependant on your architecture)
If you need proof of my statments, I have created a map once that had no models in it, yet contained an 8000 e_poly count. After deleting my helichoper (which was created from scratch using nothing but func_walls because I can't make models, and so that VIS would not die during compile time...) my e_poly count went down to 500's.
Another example is in the map ns_bast. The hive area called the Refinery, has 2 exceptionaly large tanks with a catwalk connecting the two. You'd think these objects would add alot to the w_poly, after all, they are cylinders! Alas, this is not the case, these objects are not world brushes at all, they are func_walls. And therefor add to e_poly not w_poly. This is also the case as to why taking a topdown overview screen of the map ns_bast leaves the Refinery room empty in the picture with no view of the 2 tanks at all. (As we all know, entities can not be drawn on overview screen shots)
So you basicaly have hope for reducing those polys WarpZone. Unless of course you only made the map using world brushes...
Weapon models, CCs, resource towers, etc etc, all add to the epolys. Perhaps there were some of these in your VIS sight? (Turning walls into entities will of course effectively make them 'seethrough' as far as VIS is concerned, and perhaps doing this causes models being drawn which would otherwise be blocked from VIS's view.
On the other hand, I'd be REALLY interested if you prove me wrong, but I doubt you will <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Oh, and Re: first post, 1500 is a fairly small amount where epolys are concerned. (About 2 player models?)
epolys, despite the 'e' in their name, only represent model-based polygons. 1500 is indeed a small epoly number -- often times you'll find multiple thousands in NS, due to all the models displayed.
(gah, forget the shots, I can't upload anything successfully today... Point remains, epoly is model only.)
Okay, thanks for clearing that up. Everybody was saying something different, so thanks for posting those screenshots, KungFuSquirrel.
I have to ask, though, why is there a box around your r_speeds data? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> Mine never does that...
Also, the ladder and the catwalk both disappear, so maybe they could have added to the epoly count after all. The tanks, however, did not disappear, so either func_seethroughs get treated as world brushes for display purposes after all, OR they are not func_seethroughs after all, but the tanks are made out of world brushes. Since they touch the ceiling, they'd get treated as hull 0 brushes, and the commander would be able to see through them and place objects right down through them anyway...
Hmmmm... darn. Come to think of it, KungFuSquirrel's screenshot doesn't conclusively prove <i>anything...</i> <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> NEED MORE DATA!!
But at least now I know 1500 epolys is not a bad figure at all. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
If a face shows up in gl_wireframe 1 or 2, it's wpoly. Note that brush entity faces show up in gl_wireframe, and model faces do not.
func_seethroughs do not behave any differently than any other entity when noclipping into the void -- ALL entities, regardless of type, are dropped from the renderer. Anything that remains is <b>not</b> an entity.
And the box is there because I run at 1600x1200... resizing them makes the r_speeds data disappear.
My goddamned FTP connection is pretty much non-existant, so you don't get the shot that really matters... A shot with NUMEROUS func_ faces and an epoly count of 0...
Anyway. There really is no debate here. Epolys are model-based polygons ONLY. Entity brushes only affect wpoly. That's how it is and how it always has been.
Once again, how can you tell how many func polys you have?
hmm
hmm<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oohh... a philosopher from the Zen (Xen?) school of mapping....
I had also noticed that turning world brushes into entities reduced the Wpoly count without increaseing the Epoly count. Brush entities must be placing some strain on the system, so it would be relevant to have a command that shows these mysterious missing polys.
On a related not it's not unusual for weapon view models to be 1500+ Epoly. In the case of the helicopter example you could just have been holding a more detailed gun.
Try not to use too many entities as this cuts into the total number of entites available. If you get too many entities ina level things will start vanishing in-game.
Thats because you've stopped that one brush cutting faces then.
summary:<i>
most brushes make wpolys. and wpolys only.
all models make e_polys, and e_polys only.
some brushes make no wpolys, but still affect rendering & lag in different ways: func water, sky and a few more.
moving entity brushes and some point entitys also affect lag beyond their wpoly count, usually though netlag. things like moving trains, swinging pendulums, changing beams, ect.</i>
r_speeds is actually a combo of ALL of the above - although it is often miostakenly refered to wpolys only.
why are wpolys and epolys have their name like they do? it is a legacy of the history from Wolfenstien thru Quake to Half-life coding, and how things changed over time. there is a website somewhere i once read that coved the whole history of the topic. feel free to google it, if it is still up. the names were not designed for the present usage.
So... do they add to the wpolys? Damn it, guys, I've already understood <b>why</b> they lower the wpoly count, I'm just asking how they are rendered, where do their polys add up while rendered (if they are shown somewhere - I'll ignore the silly worldcraft question), why shouldn't be used too often, how many is too many etc. (probably redundant questions, once the first ones are answered)
Does that answer your question...? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->