Ns_bast.....
Question
Join Date: 2002-11-18 Member: 9180Members
Join Date: 2002-11-18 Member: 9180Members
Ok ive been comm on that map,with a specially hand-picked team of vets/elites and i can still lose to a normal,average pub alien team.
Its ridiculous on that map......the combination of 3 entrances that are the "skulk have advantage" type means the skulks get a better chance of winning a skulk rush,or at least,inflicting more damage.The res points are so far away from the marine start compared to how numerous and close the res points are to the hive locations(as seen on comm map).If aliens start at feed water,they completely block off the double res that is near to the marine start,if aliens start at refinery,they completely block off airlock and secure the vent so it cant be welded.I dont know why,but playing as an alien on that map,it is so ridiculously easy to kill TONS of marines on that map.Could be a combination of the dark effects in processing or the CQB area at the airlock......but marines very seldomg get the 1st outpost up before the 2nd hive is up.Then fades can hide in the vent and acid rocket/bile bomb the base,same with the airlock and ladder entrance.....its like the map was MADE to favour a fade bombarding force.
The only time i saw,out of 20+ bast games,the marines win is when the aliens were doing rambo crap and non-stop skulk rush and they had no gorgs....even then it took us over 3 hours to take out their hive(we were NOT delayed by a newbie comm or newbie soldiers out ramboing).I was comm at that time and it was.....i dont know how to express it....DISMAYED to see my ENTIRE team get wiped out at processing and the airlock non-stop.....it took at least 30 minutes(not counting making the main base skulk proof) for a secure,skulk proof outpost to be setup at processing.
Maybe the marines start shouldnt be so vulnerable or the aliens start so close to the marine base?
Its ridiculous on that map......the combination of 3 entrances that are the "skulk have advantage" type means the skulks get a better chance of winning a skulk rush,or at least,inflicting more damage.The res points are so far away from the marine start compared to how numerous and close the res points are to the hive locations(as seen on comm map).If aliens start at feed water,they completely block off the double res that is near to the marine start,if aliens start at refinery,they completely block off airlock and secure the vent so it cant be welded.I dont know why,but playing as an alien on that map,it is so ridiculously easy to kill TONS of marines on that map.Could be a combination of the dark effects in processing or the CQB area at the airlock......but marines very seldomg get the 1st outpost up before the 2nd hive is up.Then fades can hide in the vent and acid rocket/bile bomb the base,same with the airlock and ladder entrance.....its like the map was MADE to favour a fade bombarding force.
The only time i saw,out of 20+ bast games,the marines win is when the aliens were doing rambo crap and non-stop skulk rush and they had no gorgs....even then it took us over 3 hours to take out their hive(we were NOT delayed by a newbie comm or newbie soldiers out ramboing).I was comm at that time and it was.....i dont know how to express it....DISMAYED to see my ENTIRE team get wiped out at processing and the airlock non-stop.....it took at least 30 minutes(not counting making the main base skulk proof) for a secure,skulk proof outpost to be setup at processing.
Maybe the marines start shouldnt be so vulnerable or the aliens start so close to the marine base?
Comments
ns_bast features the most vulnerable hive location in all NS: engine hive. A siege cannon in the northeast corner of marine spawn will prevent both the engine resource tower and all defences of that hive. There is no way a competent marine team will EVER lose control over that area. If aliens start there, they have already lost.
If they start somewhere else, marines have an easy time securing the other empty hive. All the hive areas are wide and open with at least 3 entrances, while the marine spawn is a fortress, the only real entrance being two tiny ladder shafts.
ns_bast features the most vulnerable hive location in all NS: engine hive. A siege cannon in the northeast corner of marine spawn will prevent both the engine resource tower and all defences of that hive. There is no way a competent marine team will EVER lose control over that area. If aliens start there, they have already lost.
If they start somewhere else, marines have an easy time securing the other empty hive. All the hive areas are wide and open with at least 3 entrances, while the marine spawn is a fortress, the only real entrance being two tiny ladder shafts.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Are you sure you have the right map in mind?
The marine spawn does not only have 2 tiny ladder shafts....it has the vent and the airlock.Oh yea and the cargo plateform can be called down so skulks can rush up faster.
All hives have 3 open entrances???
Lets see feed water,only 2 entrances,1 is from the steam generator room and 1 is from the "alien" side of the map.There is VERY little space to put turrets in feed water,most of the space there is water or alien ground that wont accept turrets and the turrets cant take advantage of range there unless the aliens are dumb enough to waddle into the middle of the "pool" before attacking the turrets and res there.
Refinery,2 nice,small entrances to cover with off and def chambers....fades with acidrocket easily takes out marines in those cramped entrances.
That last hive location.....eh....my memory fails me....i will go check and post later.
More info please?Was there only 1 onos,did you had a excellent comm/soldier team,did you have all upgrades done,did the aliens had gorgs sabotaging them....etc.
You forgot the underwater entrance in feedwater(right under the hive)
The refinery clearly has 3 entrances, the platform that leads down, the one up the ladder, and the big door on ground level.
And the other one(i forget the name)has 2 vent entrances and a main entrance.
marine spawn: the vent is of course closed with welder, and the tight corner behind the airlock literally screams for a turret factory. you keep the elevator up all the time, and that leaves only the ladder holes.
the 3rd entrance to feedwater is the underwater tunnel, and refinery has another entrance through the control room above (name eludes me)
and engine hive doesn't matter. it cannot escape permanent siege.
Don't usually have problems with feedwater, the other hives are the problematic ones. Usually the 2 res points make most aliens willing to defend atmospherics and as such the whole elevator entrance is off-limits to marines a lot of the time.
Meanwhile, atmospheric processing has 2 nodes, yes... but that just means that when the aliens wipe it out, you lose twice as much. Once i've got the airlock junction nailed down and have blocked up the routes into engine hive, there's really nothing stopping the marines from making a push into the refinery... the hallways in leave plenty of room to maneuver, and the refinery itself is a huge open area, perfect for hitscan weapons (marine issue) but not as good for the alien-issue projectile weapons. If you can't move in, just siege your way down the hallway on the north side... getting around the corner from the refinery entrance gives you siege range on the hive itself.
Once you've got those two nailed down, well... feedwater's a piece of cake.
This strategy works pretty much regardless of the starting hive being in feedwater or refinery. When they start in the engine room, well... life just gets painful for the aliens. The best they can hope to do is start fleeing through the vent that leads past the docking hydraulics, once you've secured the airlock junction. A few more turrets plunked down in the hydraulics usually take care of this. Send a couple of marines out to secure the rest of the res nodes in the map and start farming, research some heavy weapons, let your siege cannon flatten half of the hive, and whammo... alien spam in a can. All you gotta do now is get a few GLs in range, and it's endgame.
Anyway, Ive seen Bast go both ways. If aliens start anywhere but engine room, Marines in fact have the advantage if they are smart enough to take over that hive and/or build up main aft corridoor, after they fortify thier base. Actually, in my experience this is the one map Ive ever seen the marines take over 2 hives before the aliens can. Once the vent to base is welded, and with proper turret/seige placement this is the most difficult marine base for aliens to get to of all the NS maps. Ive seen marines fend off 3 hive alien attacks for an hour on that map. If a comm blocks the little lift to the comm station with structures he can even give himself another minute or so after his team is killed off. Also Ive never seen aliens take over the double res node in atmosphereic processing.
Oh and yes...a seige in the north east corner will take out engine room hive structures. There is indeed 2 little ladder shafts at spawn, All 3 hives have 3 entrances albiet not all are usefull to marines. (you know that "pool" in feedwater is a passage right?)
Feedwater ala Steam Generator...Tram maitanence ladder...water treatment passage.
Engine room vent on either side, and engine cooridoor.
Refinery from water treatment, from tram tunnel and from observation bridge (up top)