<b>TheAdj:</b> Yeah, it was hard to try to design NS to allow 'massing', when 'units' are human. I tried to do this with Babblers but it didn't really work.
Great feedback everyone, this is quite helpful.
I agree that large maps and vehicles would be difficult and wouldn't exactly fit NS but so many other FPS' have them I was wondering if you guys thought it was holding NS back.
I'm also surprised at the amount of people that voted for a training level, as forum-goers tend to be the most devoted of the hard-core and shouldn't need this.
I miss babblers. Babblers plus adrenaline was great. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Flayra+May 6 2005, 11:15 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Flayra @ May 6 2005, 11:15 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I'm also surprised at the amount of people that voted for a training level, as forum-goers tend to be the most devoted of the hard-core and shouldn't need this. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> oh, i missed that line. anyways a training map would be cool.
I'd think a training level shouldn't be considered, but put in as a standard thing.
I voted for new marine tech though, there really is zero choices you can make. You can change a few upgrades around, ie pg's before AA, AA before wu1, but seriously, you need all the "tech" you can get anyway. Phase Gates, HMG's, normal upgrades, and HA or JP (usually need both if the alien team's doing a good job, so again, no choice here) if the aliens get two hives. Handgrenades and Catpacks still aren't viable. So yeah, new tech please.
The rest of the features are way too vague to comment about.
Like most people it seems, I'd like to see some new alien lifeforms and upgrades along with new marine weapons and upgrades. It seems like one of the most logical steps forward.
I voted for a trainning room. Its if we had one for the current NS it would bring more poeple to the game.
I would just love to see lot of barrels and other structures the marine could pick and block a door with. They then can build mini forts. I think it would be so funny to see an onos charge through a wall of junk.
Open maps with vehicles and sniper rifles would need a complete rethinking of the current Alien classes (Melee abilites arent so great in giant open arenas) Flayra, If you're willing to take the time to make it work, I think it would be interesting to see how it would play out.
A marine filled dropship being assaulted in mid-air by a giant sized lerk would be pretty hot, but would it really still be NS? I'm not so certain.
I wouldn't like to see big <i>open</i> maps, but what about a dense jungle with low visibility, where skulks can jump out of bushes or trees, fades can blink down from high branches, and onoses charge down the clear paths, sending marines diving/being-thrown out of the way?
Vehicles could be interesting, but not huge tanks or dropships... I've tried Tribes, and those were more annoying than fun. I'm thinking one or two-man vehicles like four-wheelers or bikes, or their futuristic <b>hovering</b> (Sorry, couldn't resist) equivalent.
I like the scale though... No immense aircraft-carrier-sized aliens or megatanks...
The cramped feel is good, but variety is good too.
EDIT: Haha, filter caught my pathetic attempt at an old, dead joke...
<!--QuoteBegin-Flayra+May 6 2005, 09:15 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Flayra @ May 6 2005, 09:15 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I'm also surprised at the amount of people that voted for a training level, as forum-goers tend to be the most devoted of the hard-core and shouldn't need this. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> It's the frustration of constantly playing with people that don't really know what they are doing that makes us want it.
I must say, I'd like to see all of those in it. Hard to choose only one <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I think outdoor maps could work, you just cannot make them wide open spaces. If you were to do a cite, lets say, aliens could hide in and on top of buildings. You could also add other elements to help hide the aliens. This would make the introduction of a new alien structure and life form very interesting.
HellbillyA whole title out of pity...Join Date: 2002-11-02Member: 3931Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation
Well i was thinking that maybe babblers could be brought back. Look at how the Antlions were in HL2, then think babblers...... <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-DarkFrost+May 6 2005, 01:18 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DarkFrost @ May 6 2005, 01:18 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Whats HL2's max draw distance? Is it similar to HL's? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> not sure but generally, MUCH larger.
If its anything like UT's, the new one is like a couple miles of converted space, like a couple miles square.
But just draw distance can be changed probably, just change cull distance.
aeroripperJoin Date: 2005-02-25Member: 42471NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
edited May 2005
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->TheAdj: Yeah, it was hard to try to design NS to allow 'massing', when 'units' are human. I tried to do this with Babblers but it didn't really work.
Great feedback everyone, this is quite helpful.
I agree that large maps and vehicles would be difficult and wouldn't exactly fit NS but so many other FPS' have them I was wondering if you guys thought it was holding NS back.
I'm also surprised at the amount of people that voted for a training level, as forum-goers tend to be the most devoted of the hard-core and shouldn't need this. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I really don't think its holding NS back, because NS is unique in its gameplay from all the other mods and sets it apart. As for "wowing" investors i say the best way to do that is make the game look absolutely stunning visually on source and add creative uses for physics like welding metal to doors etc...)
Wouldn't worry about adding new weapons and structures till quite a while after everything has been updated visually (re-balancing.. nooo!!!). Also show off hl2s outdoor capabilities through station windows and maybe dropships flying on the inbound in the beginning.
I think it would be a lot cooler to add the atmosphere back into NS that seems to be a little lacking in some maps due to the limitations of the HL engine.
<!--QuoteBegin-DaJMasta+May 6 2005, 07:57 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DaJMasta @ May 6 2005, 07:57 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-DarkFrost+May 6 2005, 01:18 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DarkFrost @ May 6 2005, 01:18 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Whats HL2's max draw distance? Is it similar to HL's? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> not sure but generally, MUCH larger.
If its anything like UT's, the new one is like a couple miles of converted space, like a couple miles square.
But just draw distance can be changed probably, just change cull distance. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> only with sv_cheats 1 in hl2 sadly =/
Like make them work, if you've played HL2DM you'll know what I mean by that.
For those who haven't, props cause all kinds of unexpected side effects when a player model come in contact. Like a box that you can jump on sometimes catapaults you 100 foot into the air.
aeroripperJoin Date: 2005-02-25Member: 42471NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->For those who haven't, props cause all kinds of unexpected side effects when a player model come in contact. Like a box that you can jump on sometimes catapaults you 100 foot into the air. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I wasn't talking so much about adding lots of props to NS but more in the form of metal weldables on doorways and stuff... Honestly i'm not hugely impressed by Havok physics, i'd rather see megon in it instead :-P
ahh, I though you meant, one guy picks up the metal and welds it to the door. It is probably possible, but the guy has a high chance of being killed by the said piece of metal =]
<!--QuoteBegin-Flayra+May 6 2005, 08:15 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Flayra @ May 6 2005, 08:15 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I'm also surprised at the amount of people that voted for a training level, as forum-goers tend to be the most devoted of the hard-core and shouldn't need this. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> While we are 'the most devoted of the hard core,' we do want NS to grow and without a training map, we have to explain everything. Which most people do not want to do. I admit it, sometimes I just want to play, and not deal with people who don't know what to do. Other times I'll go help them out. With a Training map, etc, it means we don't have to do as much work to integrate the new players, and that means more time enjoying the game. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
picture a even heavier armor, only buildable at a special "hive like" location, like a industrial room., as in... a walker/mech, really meaty feeling chain cannons with pleanty of kickback, but a poor vision arc and limited rotation speed... meaning getting flanked and muched when not backed up is not only likely but standard issue.
equal and oposite to that should be a leviathan creature, a creature that practically acts as a walking hive, healing all nearby, while still kicking a fair degree of rear by themselves.
both of these units would be okaay by themselves, but to really justify their upgrade cost they'd need heavy backup, the leviathan due to its limited attack power and lack of wall climb or flying,(think uber gorge with its auto hive style healing) and the walker, needing wield support and general support to cover its vunerable back.
unit may be limited to 1 per map at a time.
and when they meet in the battlefield?
having a ranking system to help you find easier people to play with, and more chalenging if you are good is a great idea. you could ignore it, but servers could track wins and kills and try and get evenly skilled teams when random is forced.
I voted for more aliens, but there were so many it was a tough choice to choose one. so heres my list.
more tech stuff for both sides: no explaination really needed
a training map: I dunno why meats wasn't accepted, because really not everyone can just look at the keyboard menu and know what does what (I ldid luckily <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->)
more weapons for marines and aliens: except a sniper, snipers seem to bring the worst out of games for some reason unless the suck (which then no one uses them)
I would like to see outdoor maps and vehicles but I wouldn't lose much sleep if there weren't any. aside from the fact you would probably need 2 completely different sets of aliens (one for normal indoors maps and one for outdoors, lerks, fades, and oni are the only ones that would stand a chance in outdoor maps so you would need a couple new ones to replace the others/add more).
and about the TSA being space only, you would probably need to create a new fraction that revolve around open warfare (maybe the regular earth army guys?).
PS: please please please! don't include a ranking system, the reasons have already been stated so I won't waste your time repeating them.
New weps would be sick I deffinitly want some new stuff besides the ole LMG and HMG. What about just a plan and simple MG? <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Comments
Great feedback everyone, this is quite helpful.
I agree that large maps and vehicles would be difficult and wouldn't exactly fit NS but so many other FPS' have them I was wondering if you guys thought it was holding NS back.
I'm also surprised at the amount of people that voted for a training level, as forum-goers tend to be the most devoted of the hard-core and shouldn't need this.
-Slappy
I'm also surprised at the amount of people that voted for a training level, as forum-goers tend to be the most devoted of the hard-core and shouldn't need this. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
oh, i missed that line. anyways a training map would be cool.
I voted for new marine tech though, there really is zero choices you can make. You can change a few upgrades around, ie pg's before AA, AA before wu1, but seriously, you need all the "tech" you can get anyway. Phase Gates, HMG's, normal upgrades, and HA or JP (usually need both if the alien team's doing a good job, so again, no choice here) if the aliens get two hives. Handgrenades and Catpacks still aren't viable.
So yeah, new tech please.
The rest of the features are way too vague to comment about.
I would just love to see lot of barrels and other structures the marine could pick and block a door with. They then can build mini forts. I think it would be so funny to see an onos charge through a wall of junk.
I also want to see MvsM NS style.
A marine filled dropship being assaulted in mid-air by a giant sized lerk would be pretty hot, but would it really still be NS? I'm not so certain.
Vehicles could be interesting, but not huge tanks or dropships... I've tried Tribes, and those were more annoying than fun. I'm thinking one or two-man vehicles like four-wheelers or bikes, or their futuristic <b>hovering</b> (Sorry, couldn't resist) equivalent.
I like the scale though... No immense aircraft-carrier-sized aliens or megatanks...
The cramped feel is good, but variety is good too.
EDIT: Haha, filter caught my pathetic attempt at an old, dead joke...
It's the frustration of constantly playing with people that don't really know what they are doing that makes us want it.
I dont like the vehicle Idea.
not sure but generally, MUCH larger.
If its anything like UT's, the new one is like a couple miles of converted space, like a couple miles square.
But just draw distance can be changed probably, just change cull distance.
Great feedback everyone, this is quite helpful.
I agree that large maps and vehicles would be difficult and wouldn't exactly fit NS but so many other FPS' have them I was wondering if you guys thought it was holding NS back.
I'm also surprised at the amount of people that voted for a training level, as forum-goers tend to be the most devoted of the hard-core and shouldn't need this. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I really don't think its holding NS back, because NS is unique in its gameplay from all the other mods and sets it apart. As for "wowing" investors i say the best way to do that is make the game look absolutely stunning visually on source and add creative uses for physics like welding metal to doors etc...)
Wouldn't worry about adding new weapons and structures till quite a while after everything has been updated visually (re-balancing.. nooo!!!). Also show off hl2s outdoor capabilities through station windows and maybe dropships flying on the inbound in the beginning.
I think it would be a lot cooler to add the atmosphere back into NS that seems to be a little lacking in some maps due to the limitations of the HL engine.
not sure but generally, MUCH larger.
If its anything like UT's, the new one is like a couple miles of converted space, like a couple miles square.
But just draw distance can be changed probably, just change cull distance. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
only with sv_cheats 1 in hl2 sadly =/
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->creative uses for physics<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Like make them work, if you've played HL2DM you'll know what I mean by that.
For those who haven't, props cause all kinds of unexpected side effects when a player model come in contact. Like a box that you can jump on sometimes catapaults you 100 foot into the air.
I wasn't talking so much about adding lots of props to NS but more in the form of metal weldables on doorways and stuff... Honestly i'm not hugely impressed by Havok physics, i'd rather see megon in it instead :-P
but they'd still be a fun addition to NS:S
out door maps can look so damn good in source (i love you mr displacement tool)
While we are 'the most devoted of the hard core,' we do want NS to grow and without a training map, we have to explain everything. Which most people do not want to do. I admit it, sometimes I just want to play, and not deal with people who don't know what to do. Other times I'll go help them out. With a Training map, etc, it means we don't have to do as much work to integrate the new players, and that means more time enjoying the game. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
The new alien :
15 res
20*20*20cm big. (can hide & go everywhere)
30 % invisbility at all times (even during attack, scan doesnt effect it)
~gorge health points.
A slow movement speed with 1 hive.
(slower than a gorge, but nearly silent)
1. Attack :
Very deadly closecombat.
2. Attack :
Distance-attack, 3 metres range.
No damage, poison effect.
Enemy isnt able to act properly for 2-3 seconds.
Can be fired every 10 seconds.
3. attack (2ndhive) :
passive skills
+75% health and armor.
+20% movement speed.
30% cloak --> 50% cloak.
4. Attack (3thhive) :
passive skill : creature jumps longer and higher.
aktive skill : dont know
picture a even heavier armor, only buildable at a special "hive like" location, like a industrial room., as in... a walker/mech, really meaty feeling chain cannons with pleanty of kickback, but a poor vision arc and limited rotation speed... meaning getting flanked and muched when not backed up is not only likely but standard issue.
equal and oposite to that should be a leviathan creature, a creature that practically acts as a walking hive, healing all nearby, while still kicking a fair degree of rear by themselves.
both of these units would be okaay by themselves, but to really justify their upgrade cost they'd need heavy backup, the leviathan due to its limited attack power and lack of wall climb or flying,(think uber gorge with its auto hive style healing) and the walker, needing wield support and general support to cover its vunerable back.
unit may be limited to 1 per map at a time.
and when they meet in the battlefield?
having a ranking system to help you find easier people to play with, and more chalenging if you are good is a great idea. you could ignore it, but servers could track wins and kills and try and get evenly skilled teams when random is forced.
more tech stuff for both sides: no explaination really needed
a training map: I dunno why meats wasn't accepted, because really not everyone can just look at the keyboard menu and know what does what (I ldid luckily <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->)
more weapons for marines and aliens: except a sniper, snipers seem to bring the worst out of games for some reason unless the suck (which then no one uses them)
I would like to see outdoor maps and vehicles but I wouldn't lose much sleep if there weren't any. aside from the fact you would probably need 2 completely different sets of aliens (one for normal indoors maps and one for outdoors, lerks, fades, and oni are the only ones that would stand a chance in outdoor maps so you would need a couple new ones to replace the others/add more).
and about the TSA being space only, you would probably need to create a new fraction that revolve around open warfare (maybe the regular earth army guys?).
PS: please please please! don't include a ranking system, the reasons have already been stated so I won't waste your time repeating them.
'Bones
Things like flamethrowers and vehicles would only really work effectively on the source engine -_-