Space Cabin Fever

Kyune · November 2002

<div class="IPBDescription">Should all maps be inside?</div> I've noticed that pretty much every map revolves around some closed-off installation, in which squad(s) of marines pour into the area and hope to clear out the blight. Yet, NS certainly has potential as an "outdoors" mod. For instance, the Kharaa could have burrowed into some important cave, or infest a valley. Better yet, they infest a city and an urban brawl ensues.

Any thoughts, or suggestions? Maybe it's just me getting tired of looking at the same hallways and textures already.

CForrester · November 2002

Half-Life pukes on outdoorsy maps. If Half-Life pukes, I'd hate to see how Natural Selection would react!

Paranoia2MB · November 2002

Ya I feel the same. But there is one map that somewhat feels like I am outside. I forgot the name, but if you walk outside of the marine base and you look up. You see blue skies and like a catwalk type thing next to the other building. And you see NORTH/SOUTH/EAST/WEST on top of the doors. If you go to the right of the marine spawn you see a satellite type thing. Most outdoorsy map there is lol.

FA has some nice outdoor maps and same with DOD. Maybe like an assault from the Marines on an alien planet. Kinda like Starship Troopers hehe.

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'>

ekent · November 2002

I think you're thinking of <i>Tanith</i>.

I was thinking about a map where the marines start off in a surface base and the aliens start off in a cave system, with an open flat outdoor area in between them. I'm not sure how that would impact play, but it would be interesting to see.

Hopefully in any case Flayra rewards interesting and unique map creation and doesn't punish maps that require a different play style. Seeing as all the maps out now don't take any significantly different strategies.

Rue · November 2002

there is a few reasons that not much of the game is held outside , if there is no roof then where are the commanders camras to see the battle feild? and the ammo/health that the commander drops where does it come from if there is no roof?
kinda simple stuff that maby could be overlooked when playing a outside map

PS. If you welder that sat dish on the out-dorrish map you get a kewl animation thingy <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'>

Kyune · November 2002

Speaking of play style... I think one of the things that annoys me somewhat, though, is that the game hinges almost entirely on hive control...moreso than it does resources--you pretty much never see a fully developed game where you see all kinds of units on several fronts. When the other team has 3 hives, you can be almost absolutely certain that you're going to lose in a big way. There's nothing that stops them from getting multiple onos's once they have that third hive running.

As for the commander view...Well, if you're outside then you could be viewing the fight from some sort of satellite? <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'> I dunno. It's an instance of realism that isn't worth nit-picking about.

Teufel_Eldritch · November 2002

Actually I see the game as a race to both resources and hives. Marines can take only one hive and hold it to really screw with the Khaara. Without resources neither team can do squat.

ekent · November 2002

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Rue @ Nov 18 2002, 12:11 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>and the ammo/health that the commander drops where does it come from if there is no roof?</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
The question is where does it come from when there <i>is</i> a roof...

Kyune · November 2002

Depends on how you look at it. But, given the layout of the current maps, hive occupation is generally the dominant factor in a map--indeed, without resources neither team can do squat, but aliens cannot simply improve themselves where and whenever. Marines have the option of, as you said, taking a hive and turtling. Here's the rub, though--the marines' potential is limited only by the time it takes to research, and how fast they can get the resources to research. The Khaara's abilities and potentials are limited rather exclusively by the number of hives they hold. It forces the aliens to play an attacking game, but the current arrangement leads me to believe that level 4 attacks and the Onos are included only for the sake of forcing marines to play an attacking game. Sadly, this means you never really see a stalemate where both sides are having it out with each other with everything they've got. Rather, the game climaxes at a precariously lopsided position (which can go on for hours, as nothing is absolute) and typically ends with one side being utterly crushed by the tech difference.

Rue · November 2002

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> ((e)kent @ Nov 18 2002, 08:30 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
The question is where does it come from when there <i>is</i> a roof...</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
it comes from nodes in the pipeing systems of the ships, it allows the commnader to basicly form the equipment from basic atoms (i think) but it comes from nodes on the roof any way

Alien_Bob · November 2002

I could imagine the game working quite well in a claustrophic urban setting (like Bladerunner, maybe), with tight alleyways, warehouses, sewers and so on. But a truly outdoors map with e.g. trees, fields, wide-open spaces and so on just wouldn't suit it at all. There aren't many current maps where can you ever see more than twenty metres ahead of you, and a lot of the tension in the game comes from not knowing what the hell's around that next corner.

But playing in an abandoned city with burning car wrecks and skulks jumping out of manholes at you could make for a very good game.

athodyd · November 2002

One idea I had for an outdoorsish NS map was a base on an ice planet (or a similarly inhospitable but still breathable environment) where the outer areas inflict damage over time--hence, the Marines would be unable to simply camp on a flat plain and pick off incoming beasties at extreme range, and both sides would have to sprint through hostile zones to reach isolated areas of the base i.e. multiple node locations or possibly control panels that can turn off the heat to certain parts of the underground complex, meaning someone has to go sprint over to that switch before the emergency power gives out and an entire outpost is killed off.

"SECTION G-5 THERMAL RECYCLERS DISENGAGED. ONE MINUTE THIRTY SECONDS UNTIL HEATER FAILURE."

*SHEEEEEEoooooooooom-clunk* I hope you marines didn't spend a lot of time on all those siege turrets.

I've always thought there should be at least one NS map that takes advantage of how the environments are dependent on a life-support system. I imagine you would learn a lot of fun new cuss words if you opened up a hallway full of charging Skulks to some hard vacuum. Of course, this is all a bit of a moot point until I teach myself worldcraft. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'>

Zarbuck · November 2002

I have also kind of been playing around with this. My idea is a space station but one that would have a small biosphere in it. Just like a little pod with some trees and stuff but I am not really having any luck trying to map it. The only mapping that I have ever done before was just a few little thing for GO so NS is really giving me some problems trying to learn to map for.

Forlorn · November 2002

Yes - More creative maps would be greatly appreciated.

RhoadsToNowhere · November 2002

While there are probably quite a few possibilities of sci-fi settings that NS maps could be set in, the fact is that NS's theme is fairly restricted. Leaving behind the gameplay ramifications of setting a map in a big, wide-open field, there's just something wrong with an NS map that doesn't involve cold steel walls, water dripping from pipes from overhead drainage systems, broken machinery, etc. Now, we have no way to stop anyone from doing a map that's outside, and in fact I might be interested to see a map like this if it's done well, but by doing this you pretty much forfeit your map's chances of going official. Still, I think there's plenty of room for innovation just using NS's "set" theme and textures -- you would hardly ever confuse any of the official maps, yet the textures were pretty much all taken from NS.wad. Between the variety of textures in the wad and some creative use of your own personal style of brushwork and lighting, I think there's plenty more original-looking maps to be made.

Paranoia2MB · November 2002

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Rue @ Nov 18 2002, 03:11 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>there is a few reasons that not much of the game is held outside , if there is no roof then where are the commanders camras to see the battle feild? and the ammo/health that the commander drops where does it come from if there is no roof?
kinda simple stuff that maby could be overlooked when playing a outside map

PS. If you welder that sat dish on the out-dorrish map you get a kewl animation thingy <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
Don't forget that we humans have satellites hehe <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'>
And since we are in the supposed "far future" we can say that it is materliazed, or a jet flies by and drops off the packages and buildings hehe.

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'>

wRaven · November 2002

For an "outside" map, you can have a mining cave. Rock walls, mine carts, ext.

athodyd · November 2002

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (RhoadsToNowhere @ Nov 18 2002, 09:35 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>While there are probably quite a few possibilities of sci-fi settings that NS maps could be set in, the fact is that NS's theme is fairly restricted. Leaving behind the gameplay ramifications of setting a map in a big, wide-open field, there's just something wrong with an NS map that doesn't involve cold steel walls, water dripping from pipes from overhead drainage systems, broken machinery, etc. Now, we have no way to stop anyone from doing a map that's outside, and in fact I might be interested to see a map like this if it's done well, but by doing this you pretty much forfeit your map's chances of going official. Still, I think there's plenty of room for innovation just using NS's "set" theme and textures -- you would hardly ever confuse any of the official maps, yet the textures were pretty much all taken from NS.wad. Between the variety of textures in the wad and some creative use of your own personal style of brushwork and lighting, I think there's plenty more original-looking maps to be made.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
I realize the "doom-and-gloom" setting is important to NS, but I think that too many confined spaces and narrow hallways sometimes create more monotony than tension. I think the biggest problem with trying to use outdoor areas (besides HL engine choking up on wide-open spaces) isn't that it brings down the claustrophobia aspect of the game, but that it gives the marines a distinct advantage. When you can see them coming a mile away you can usually put enough lead into them to make the melee range fairly badly wounded. That's why I proposed having outdoor areas be pain zones, to prevent people from using it to tactical advantage.

Discobird · November 2002

No ceiling make skulk cry.

lazygamer · November 2002

Is there any magic tricks that can fight the horrible R_speeds?

Lt_Warhound · November 2002

Why no outdoors maps?

RTFM.

No, really. Read the backstory, read the explanations, its all covered there.

No nano-sludge, nothing for the commander to use to make structures/weapons/ammo/healthkits from.

So, sounds like we need outdoors maps!
(okay, I'll admit it, I play aliens mostly...)

ekent · November 2002

They just need to put the nano-junk in the floor.

SnappleS · November 2002

We needs some more spacious maps...such as maps based outside.

FunkTheMonk · November 2002

I'd love to see big open maps but the marines will whine about how they need sniper rifles that kill in 1 hit and to that I say **obscenity** OFF! damn awps

DjArcas · November 2002

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Rue @ Nov 18 2002, 03:11 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>there is a few reasons that not much of the game is held outside , if there is no roof then where are the commanders camras to see the battle feild? and the ammo/health that the commander drops where does it come from if there is no roof?
</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
well, where the hell are they coming from now?

DjArcas · November 2002

Just to say that I'm sure I'm on the only person working on a map with an outdoor area... patience people, patience.

I reserve the right to change my mind after some playtesting <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'>

Ahnteis · November 2002

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DjArcas @ Nov 19 2002, 07:01 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>well, where the hell are they coming from now?</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
RTFM!

pardzh · November 2002

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Kyune @ Nov 18 2002, 08:11 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Speaking of play style... I think one of the things that annoys me somewhat, though, is that the game hinges almost entirely on hive control...moreso than it does resources--you pretty much never see a fully developed game where you see all kinds of units on several fronts. When the other team has 3 hives, you can be almost absolutely certain that you're going to lose in a big way. There's nothing that stops them from getting multiple onos's once they have that third hive running.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
Well think of the RTS's that you play (maybe you dont, but I do). In War/StarCraft, a lot of people will just rush you with basic units. Rarely ever do you see, in WarCraft, fully upgraded Abominations along with fully upgraded Frost Wyrms fighting fully upgraded Knights and fully upgraded Tauren. Natural Selection is also like an RTS, where you don't always go all the way up the tech tree, just use the strategies that work.

Terr · November 2002

Just a note on all the RTFMing...

From what the backstory suggests.....

Nothing. On. Planets.

Ships are okay, as are space stations... and those space stations MIGHT have a nice biosphere dome.... The marines obviously have generated gravity.

Too bad Half Life can't manage a spinning ring-like space station.

Nastybutler_039 · November 2002

I was thinking about maybe a kind of eco-dome as well. The skulks might be able to climb on the sky, which would just be wierd, but if it had a glass ceiling, it would work.

ShingyBoy · November 2002

Makin a out door map wont be so bad unless u av almost no stuff around coz aliens would av massage disadvantages for one thing u could set it in where aliens are attacking buildings or the rain forest or somewhere for skulks to go somewhere tho rite in my mind now im just picturing a marine base thingy deep underground somewhere wit aliens trying to **obscenity** it
i dunno im just opening my mouth being stuipid is my specialty u know

Space Cabin Fever

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