Bilebomb
Beetlejuice
Join Date: 2002-11-07 Member: 7542Members
Join Date: 2002-11-07 Member: 7542Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Maybe we could get official statement?</div> Ok, so without anouncing it (and with making testing it much more difficult without any reason) bilebomb seems to have been fixed partially.
Manual says it should do double dmg against structures, in 1.01 it did half dmg to structures, now it does normal dmg against structures. Now i would like to know, do you plan on fixing this completely or how it is meant to be?
Manual says it should do double dmg against structures, in 1.01 it did half dmg to structures, now it does normal dmg against structures. Now i would like to know, do you plan on fixing this completely or how it is meant to be?
Comments
Sure it has huge splash damage, but it sucks because it doesn't even do what it was orginally intended to do.
If it did 80 to structures MAN would Mirene bases fall so fast...
I have to agree with this statement.
When I'm aliens (which is most of the time), I play FADE no questions asked, and I think everything is perfect the way it is now.
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Dude what are you talking about Fade's are very balenced.
Damn right I'm a November Noob so what? What? umm what u ;lookin at? I own Joo; l337 my mod be out next week, my 3d graics rulz, oh jeeperz how that tequila fell in my mouth?
They are all very powerfull. Nothing kills marines faster then a coridor full of spore. Unless it's a chargeing onos with primal rage backup up by a bunch of fades shooting with there masivly upgrade fireing rate from the primal rage.
It's like marines with full level 3 armor and weapon upgrades with HA and HMG/GL. If you managed to get 3 hives or all the upgrades and the RP to use them, you deserve to win. Besides it's no fun playing a loseing game for hours.
Actually it does 80 dmg vs structures now:
v1.01 - 80 vs human, 40 vs structures
v1.02 - 80 vs human (not tested but would be surprised if not), 80 vs structures
manual: 80 vs human, 160 vs structures.
And for those bitching about fades, you may forget that a fully upgraded fade costs 50 rp (and a LOT of time, where you are left very vulnerable), the same as a fully upgraded marine in ha/hmg (if he does not take the equipment from another one who just died, then it costs nothing).
So commander spends 50 rp, ha/hmg marine is ready nearly instantly.
Alien starts to evolve spending 44 rp, player fetches some coffee. Alien starts its 1st upgrade paying 2 rp and uses the time to get some sugar. Alien starts its 2nd upgrade paying 2 rp and gets some milk. Alien starts its 3rd upgrade paying 2 rp and gets a spoon mix caffee, milk and sugar. Alien is now ready to jump into the action.
Now the alien runs into the marine and starts firing. After 4 acid rockets his energy is gone and he did 240 dmg (not even close to the dmg he must do to kill a ha marine even if all shots were hits). If he now does not have adrenaline upgrade he can wait forever till he can shoot again, with adrenaline it is a bit faster.
The marine starts firing. He can fire 150 rounds doing 23 dmg with an insanely high rate of fire before he has to reload. So while the alien has to stop firing after doing 240 dmg, the marine can do 3450 dmg before he has to reload.
Last but not least armor and health. The difference here depends on the upgrade choice of the alien. Without carapace the ha marine can take much more damage than the alien. With carapace i would say the alien can take more damage (the way carapace works is a bit strange. It reduces the dmg by a certain percentage before normal armor and health are taken into consideration. So it is not so easy to compare).
The problem isnt that the game elements are unbalanced. the problem is that the speed the different races get up the tech tree are dramatically different due to cost and efficiency of the two races
My strat as an alien consists of this. Everyone but one goes to pin the marines in their spawn. That one becomes a gorge, and as long as the skulks aren't letting any marines out, that gorge can go around and, completely WITHOUT worrying about defense, get 4-5 resourcers up. Now, ifi the marines were actually spending the game without half the team doing the "rush the hallway and wander off" thing, they might be able to do something similar... instead, what you usually end up with is ALL the marines standing around in spawn (minus the 2 wanderers) building turrets, getting an armory up, and doing the usual **obscenity**. I've seen some commanders not even send their guys out until they've got a few shotguns and the first level of weaponry upgrades.
Meanwhile, the aliens (since they have one gorge who's pulling in a MASSIVE amount of resources) simply get up hive 2, then start putting D on their resourcers. Then, the walls of lame come up to add to the pinned marines. Then, once you've got them nicely bottled up, get hive 3 online, harden all your points thoroughly, and let the fades (and eventually onos) go to work on the marines.
Now, what's the catch here? If the marines were working together, and manage to get out and plow themselves a few resourcers (possibly even a hive), they'd be good. In fact, the only time i've seen this NOT be the case is when the aliens are flat-out incompetent. As is, most commanders tend to turtle due to those first few rushes (blowing points on about 10 turrets in the spawn) when quite frankly, they should be expanding.
The only thing that's unique about your spawn point is that it's got the portals, and the CC in it. For an easy 60 resources, you could drop 2 portals and a CC *ANYWHERE* else, and have a new base to work with (only problem then being the difficulty of using a distress beacon). Get out of it as soon as possible, take over somewhere useful and easy to defend, and move (or at least set up an alternate) your base there.
But if the aliens have the first few minutes to just run free and do what they like, without the "oh, all 5 of us want to be gorges" effect going on, a marine team that doesn't move out quickly is a dead marine team.
Shrike is 900% correct.
Also, how many hits from an LMG does a fade take? Also, how much do the standard armor and weapon upgrades affect an LMG marines fight with a fade?
Beyond just the numbers game, I wonder how an improved commander interface would affect marine performance.
At close range, 2 shots from the shotgun will kill a fade, but you'll need 4 if he has armor upgrade.
I think fades should have less life and armor, but deal slightly more damage. They should be the aliens' siege weapon, not the ridiculously tough all-around brawler they are now.
Fades are the only class next to the Onos that can not be 1 or 3 shot killed by a HMG, anyone ever think of that? I mean really, what other class has a significantly even chance of taking down a HA/HMG Marine face to face besides those two?
NS works like most things in life. If your a **obscenity** you lose, if you play it smart you will win and have fun. Applies to both Marines & Aliens.
But fades are a lot tougher to kill because they run twice as fast.
And its true - Marines usually lose because they are too defensive. If marines aggressively sieze the offensive, aliens tend to go splat. The major problem with Marines is that they are way too dependent on a single member of the team - the commander. A bad commander can ruin the entire Marine game, even if all the marines are very good players.
My strat as an alien consists of this. Everyone but one goes to pin the marines in their spawn. That one becomes a gorge, and as long as the skulks aren't letting any marines out, that gorge can go around and, completely WITHOUT worrying about defense, get 4-5 resourcers up. Now, ifi the marines were actually spending the game without half the team doing the "rush the hallway and wander off" thing, they might be able to do something similar... instead, what you usually end up with is ALL the marines standing around in spawn (minus the 2 wanderers) building turrets, getting an armory up, and doing the usual **obscenity**. I've seen some commanders not even send their guys out until they've got a few shotguns and the first level of weaponry upgrades.
Meanwhile, the aliens (since they have one gorge who's pulling in a MASSIVE amount of resources) simply get up hive 2, then start putting D on their resourcers. Then, the walls of lame come up to add to the pinned marines. Then, once you've got them nicely bottled up, get hive 3 online, harden all your points thoroughly, and let the fades (and eventually onos) go to work on the marines.
Now, what's the catch here? If the marines were working together, and manage to get out and plow themselves a few resourcers (possibly even a hive), they'd be good. In fact, the only time i've seen this NOT be the case is when the aliens are flat-out incompetent. As is, most commanders tend to turtle due to those first few rushes (blowing points on about 10 turrets in the spawn) when quite frankly, they should be expanding.
The only thing that's unique about your spawn point is that it's got the portals, and the CC in it. For an easy 60 resources, you could drop 2 portals and a CC *ANYWHERE* else, and have a new base to work with (only problem then being the difficulty of using a distress beacon). Get out of it as soon as possible, take over somewhere useful and easy to defend, and move (or at least set up an alternate) your base there.
But if the aliens have the first few minutes to just run free and do what they like, without the "oh, all 5 of us want to be gorges" effect going on, a marine team that doesn't move out quickly is a dead marine team.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well said Shrike, you will never see a marine team turtle in clan play. The entire focus of the marine team is to be OFFENSIVE. People i guess, havn't realized this. An offensive marine team with a good commander is amazing, and thats where most of you aren't basing your comments off of.
Well, if you ask me... skulks! I've been playing almost exclusively as skulk/lerk lately (due to the fact that before three hives I don't really like evolving all that much, and after three hives I absolutely love the lerk), and it amazes me how, with a little practice, a skulk can be soooooo incredibly tough to kill. There were TWO HA marines building a turret factory outside our last hive on ns_caged the other day, and I spawned as a skulk and heard building noises. Thinking this couldn't possibly be a good thing, I investigated, which means I climbed up the wall and launched myself at the closest marine, teeth gnashing. I leaped. I strafed. I moved more eratically than I would have ordinarily though possible. The marines got confused, started shooting each other more than me (I kept putting one of them between me and the other), and eventually (after about 30 seconds of chomping) they were both dead. I was hurt badly, But I'd done what needed to be done. Skulks are simply AMAZING if you can just learn a few tactics with them.
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so then what if they have 2 fades? acid rocket is rediculous when you are a light marine.
all i know is, as a fade I kill a lone HA with HMG every time. Jump, duck, and circle strafe and the HA is dead.
so then what if they have 2 fades? acid rocket is rediculous when you are a light marine.
all i know is, as a fade I kill a lone HA with HMG every time. Jump, duck, and circle strafe and the HA is dead.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's funny, because as a long HA HMG I take out a fade every time <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
The trick for a fade is to not close the distance with a HA. They think it would be better to run in and get some good slashes, and that's just a bad bad idea. Once the gap has been closed, none of the HMG rounds will miss, and bye bye fade.
Just now, about 30 minutes ago, two fades were launching acid rockets at a light marine at the end of a hall, too oblivious to notice me, the HA HMG coming around the corner. Killed them both in no time flat, with plenty of HP and armor to spare.
Of course, I've killed as a fade just as much, but I know not to get close to HA HMG, because the closer I get, the more I get hit.
Ravlen
Excuse me, but three LMG-wielding marines are more than a match for a skulk as long as they're halfway intelligent about it.
Oh, and Shrike's here. =)
I don't suppose you could tell us if your Spider Sense is telling you that the fix will require a client side update or if it'll be able to be handled server side?
Anyways, I don't think that bile bomb being corrected is anything too monumental. It's really going to be useful against giant clusters of turrets. And if the marines are really banking on giant clusters of turrets they're probably either turtling up or doing the siege crawl. In the case of turtling up, it'll help those drawn out games come to a head a little bit quicker. True, the effectiveness of the siege crawl will be dulled slightly, but I'm not going to cry any tears over that one.
Besides, the Wall of Lame effectiveness was cut down come version 1.02 (with the defense chambers and whatnot), so I don't think that its all too crazy to have a counterbalance against marine static defenses in general. A little this-for-that, eh?
What stuff are you smoking? Did you read my post? Per spawn a fade costs the same as a hmg/ha marine and a marine can spawn nearly instantly while a fade has to wait forever till he is evolved. So it takes much more time to get a fade than a hmg/ha marine.
And if you are refering to the research time, you are right, research cost for hmg and ha for marines are 195 rp, for fade (without bilebomb) 160. But marines start with 100 rp and for building, aliens need a gorge, so this is at least another 13 rp (most of the time more cause the gorge will most likely die before putting up 2nd hive).
Oh and i dont think that the aliens are vunable whilst hiding if they take the cloak upgrade first. Since your then cloaked as you evolve.
No, a fade should say "thank god for blinking". Just blink behind the marine, open the distance. Whatever you do, DON'T BACKPEDAL AND TRY TO ACID ROCKET ME TO DEATH. As most fades tend to do when my waiting around the corner pays off and I unload half a clip of HA ammo into him before it goes splat.