Well, I felt that since this concerned me, I ought to put my 2 cents in. I used to be in the competitive scene and have been in 2 NS clans to date and played in several matches. I think that the competetive discussion forum should be open to anyone who wishes to <b>Discuss</b>. The problem is the vast majority of people who dont see a problem with posting things like "OMG! Lorks on Clorf make game so not balnce!" and not defending their point. So I have to say, maybe we should pick some high level clanners to weed out the crap posts in the forum, and help to start discussion by offering well defended opinions. Being in a clan doesnt make or break your ability to be competetive. It all comes down to how you play. Competetive players will find a way to make things work, and even if you aren't in a clan, sometimes people will listen.
Finally, I think the biggest problem is that even some of the best clanners can be severly immature at times and make really stupid posts/comments. It happens to the best of us. Really.
So, please, leave this forum open for everyone, but weed out the crap and to eveyone who reads and posts here: Make your posts <i>Count</i>.
Should people, whose sigs do not display a clan affiliation, have their posts deleted? After all, this otherwise just starts becoming General Discussion.
Discuss and let me know.
P.S. Obviously, if we implement this system, you'll have to include your clan tag/nick in your sig to post here. <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Whilst you're at it, can you delete all posts from the mapping forum made by non mappers, or perhaps any threads in customisation by anyone who hasn't released anything?
As an outsider here (although i do lurk around this forum), do you have any idea how ridiculous this idea sounds? Too many people complain about the clan scene either dying or being too small, so you're willing to make a move to alienate more players? How, exactly, does that help the "dwindling" or "weak" clan scene? Surely welcoming all players, regardless of clan affiliation or experience, to the competetive "scene" is what you'd want to achieve, not the opposite? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> If I posted in the Mapping Forum and replied to "hey look at my map" threads with "add walls you can blow down with the GL, make the water reflective, and quadruple the size of the map", you'd think I was a retard. There are people who post in this forum that reply in EXACTLY the same manner, but instead of mapping, it's on competitive play. There are people that are clueless as to how competitive play works, think they have an idea from playing a couple of scrims, and are suddenly expert competitive players. I've had random pubbers tell me that I'm a clueless commander. I can't help but lol, because they're totally ignorant of the scene and think just because they've scrimmed a few omega clans they suddenly know what's up. I played for 2 months before I even had close to a clue how competitive play worked, and my team ended up as semi finalists in Season3 of Omega. You are not a competitive player because you scrim, you are a competitive player when you've played in a league or tournament against other skilled teams.
This forum has nothing to do with welcoming new players to the competitive scene. I don't think a single person has a problem with people posting questions in here, or with anyone reading the threads or even asking questions in on-going threads. What people have a problem with is nit-wit responses to threads that show their ignorance of the scene and how competitive play works.
I've already made the Discussion Forum-like rules suggestion and so has NGE. Gotta say that's the best way to run it while allowing anyone to read the threads. What it should boil down to is if you don't have experience, don't post in a thread that requires experience to post.
Should people, whose sigs do not display a clan affiliation, have their posts deleted? After all, this otherwise just starts becoming General Discussion.
Discuss and let me know.
P.S. Obviously, if we implement this system, you'll have to include your clan tag/nick in your sig to post here. <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Whilst you're at it, can you delete all posts from the mapping forum made by non mappers, or perhaps any threads in customisation by anyone who hasn't released anything?
As an outsider here (although i do lurk around this forum), do you have any idea how ridiculous this idea sounds? Too many people complain about the clan scene either dying or being too small, so you're willing to make a move to alienate more players? How, exactly, does that help the "dwindling" or "weak" clan scene? Surely welcoming all players, regardless of clan affiliation or experience, to the competetive "scene" is what you'd want to achieve, not the opposite? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> while its true that non-mappers and mappers can post in the mapping forum, and that the the contributors and non-contributors can post in the customization forum, there is no debate between the groups as there is between the public community in the clan community.
The non-contributors don't ban the contributors from their servers, and the non-contributors don't call the contributors elitist blah blah *insert whiney typical pubber comment towards competitive people* .
This is typical day to day activity for the public community and the competitive community.
It does make sense to seperate the competitive discussion from public discussion, simply so that the pubber/clanner debate does not go on.
A lot of non-competitive players have nothing to contribute to this forum. Some do.
The competitive players should have a place to call their own on this forums. I think its great that the dev team allows this forum, but they should keep it competitive only.
Also people would join or leave the competitive scene regardless whether or not there was a forum here for competitive players. So that point is irrelevant. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Did you read this before you posted it?
You suggest you restrict all non clanners because some of them have called you elitist...
I've been skill banned from servers, and I am not compeditive. There are MANY MANY compeditive players who I would never call elitist. I don't see how you can draw the lines you are drawing here WITHOUT being elitist.
Clanners aren't the only ones getting banned from servers for being skilled, and the vast majority of pubbers don't claim that all clanners are elitist. Your claims of prejudice against you are misdirected.
Also this forum is a great place for people who do not belong to the compeditive scene to get an idea of what is involved and in such it may be a great way to raise awareness of issues in the compeditive comunity and what is going on. Just because recruitment and quiting will still happen weather or not this forum is still around, doesn't mean that this place can't help it out. The point is not irrelevant.
I agree with Swiftspear. If this forum became more focused, it could be a great way to encourage more people to form clans and be competetive. They can also give their opinions, and be bettered by the constructive criticism of more experienced members. It all really comes down to the peopl who post, and how much time they are willin to put into forming a good post.
As much as you would love this to be a stab at your community, its not.
There are several clanners that have been banned for skill, and are viewed as elitist. Not just me.
Good try.
This forum will not magically spawn up new interest in competitive NS. I have no problem with others viewing the discussions, but the forum should be for competitive players only.
I know a lot of people think they are the exception, but if you haven't played competitively, or are currently playing competitively, I see no reason for those who are not in one of those two current situations being allowed to post here.
If you really want to post that bad, perhaps join a clan? If anything restricting this to the criteria I have already stated could motivate people to join a clan as they would feel apart of a special community on the NS forums.
It would also cut down on the banter and locked threads that have been started by public players. See the past posts for evidence of uselessness on the public players part.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> As much as you would love this to be a stab at your community, its not.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
'My Community'? As I see it that is VERY elitist. I dont beleive anyone should be excluded comepletely from comepetetive discussion because they aren't in <b><i>Your</i></b> community. This isn't about who is and isnt competetive in your view, its about who is in the community as a whole. As I stated earlier, why not just keep a closer eye here and moderate the conversations. 'Your' community isnt any better than 'our' community.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->This forum will not magically spawn up new interest in competitive NS. I have no problem with others viewing the discussions, but the forum should be for competitive players only.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I for one, was inspired to join a clan again after seeing some of the people who talk in this forum, for one, and it could be a GREAT recruiting tool if we simply cleaned it up. But dont clean by blacklisting 'Pubbers' and 'non-competetive' players.
<!--QuoteBegin-Chaos Xero+Apr 19 2005, 10:23 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Chaos Xero @ Apr 19 2005, 10:23 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> As much as you would love this to be a stab at your community, its not.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
'My Community'? As I see it that is VERY elitist. I dont beleive anyone should be excluded comepletely from comepetetive discussion because they aren't in <b><i>Your</i></b> community. This isn't about who is and isnt competetive in your view, its about who is in the community as a whole. As I stated earlier, why not just keep a closer eye here and moderate the conversations. 'Your' community isnt any better than 'our' community.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->This forum will not magically spawn up new interest in competitive NS. I have no problem with others viewing the discussions, but the forum should be for competitive players only.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I for one, was inspired to join a clan again after seeing some of the people who talk in this forum, for one, and it could be a GREAT recruiting tool if we simply cleaned it up. But dont clean by blacklisting 'Pubbers' and 'non-competetive' players. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> God job skipping around the arguement and wasting peoples time, this is why they want it limited.
<!--QuoteBegin-esuna+Apr 19 2005, 07:34 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (esuna @ Apr 19 2005, 07:34 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> As an outsider here (although i do lurk around this forum), do you have any idea how ridiculous this idea sounds? Too many people complain about the clan scene either dying or being too small, so you're willing to make a move to alienate more players? How, exactly, does that help the "dwindling" or "weak" clan scene? Surely welcoming all players, regardless of clan affiliation or experience, to the competetive "scene" is what you'd want to achieve, not the opposite? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> This says more about your knowledge (or lack of) of the competitive scene than anything else.
<a href='http://www.caleague.com/?page=standings&conference=all&subdivision=all' target='_blank'>http://www.caleague.com/?page=standings&co...subdivision=all</a> so called '"dwindling" or "weak" clan scene' & we're only in the second week of pre-season matches (that means the actual season doesn't start until next week). I'm sure other people can provide examples from europe & pacific leagues.
<!--QuoteBegin-Swiftspear+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Swiftspear)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I've been skill banned from servers, and I am not compeditive.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <span style='color:yellow'><s>I'd love to know which servers have "skill banned" Swiftspear. I'm always up for a good laugh.</s></span>
<!--QuoteBegin-Chaos Xero+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Chaos Xero)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-FireWater+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (FireWater)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> As much as you would love this to be a stab at your community, its not.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> 'My Community'? As I see it that is VERY elitist. I dont beleive anyone should be excluded comepletely from comepetetive discussion because they aren't in Your community. This isn't about who is and isnt competetive in your view, its about who is in the community as a whole. As I stated earlier, why not just keep a closer eye here and moderate the conversations. 'Your' community isnt any better than 'our' community.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<span style='color:yellow'><s>Good job taking a reply from FireWater to Swiftspear as if it was directed at you. Self-Obsessed much?</s> Unnecessary roughing, first warning.</span>
Keep the pubbers out and just let the competative people talk. By the way we scrimmed today and we didn't use fades until about the end of the game 20 minutes or so and still won. NS be balanced very good yep.
<!--QuoteBegin-Malibu Stacey+Apr 20 2005, 01:19 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Malibu Stacey @ Apr 20 2005, 01:19 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-esuna+Apr 19 2005, 07:34 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (esuna @ Apr 19 2005, 07:34 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> As an outsider here (although i do lurk around this forum), do you have any idea how ridiculous this idea sounds? Too many people complain about the clan scene either dying or being too small, so you're willing to make a move to alienate more players? How, exactly, does that help the "dwindling" or "weak" clan scene? Surely welcoming all players, regardless of clan affiliation or experience, to the competetive "scene" is what you'd want to achieve, not the opposite? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> This says more about your knowledge (or lack of) of the competitive scene than anything else.
<a href='http://www.caleague.com/?page=standings&conference=all&subdivision=all' target='_blank'>http://www.caleague.com/?page=standings&co...subdivision=all</a> so called '"dwindling" or "weak" clan scene' & we're only in the second week of pre-season matches (that means the actual season doesn't start until next week). I'm sure other people can provide examples from europe & pacific leagues. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Somehow I doubt he was talking about the current cal season... I really doubt he has even looked at all at anything to do with the current cal season.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-Swiftspear+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Swiftspear)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I've been skill banned from servers, and I am not compeditive.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I'd love to know which servers have "skill banned" Swiftspear. I'm always up for a good laugh.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->Only **** keep a list of every server that bans them. When I get banned I generally just find somewhere else to play and forget about it. If you MUST have a list I could direct you to the .txt website or get PJ to post his. Niether of them are clanners yet they have banlists of servers that have skillbanned them. If you mean to claim that I am lying when I imply that people asside from clanners get skill banned then you are ignorant, period.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-Chaos Xero+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Chaos Xero)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-FireWater+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (FireWater)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> As much as you would love this to be a stab at your community, its not.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> 'My Community'? As I see it that is VERY elitist. I dont beleive anyone should be excluded comepletely from comepetetive discussion because they aren't in Your community. This isn't about who is and isnt competetive in your view, its about who is in the community as a whole. As I stated earlier, why not just keep a closer eye here and moderate the conversations. 'Your' community isnt any better than 'our' community.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Good job taking a reply from FireWater to Swiftspear as if it was directed at you. Self-Obsessed much?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> My PM box isn't full. Firewater is leaving his comments open to anyone with his response in a public forum.
as i see it there 2 visions of the comptitive forum that just cant go along
whilst some want a place where all questions and matters about competitive ns can be asked, answered and discussed, others want an exclusive clanner-forum
now as i see it, the only way to solve the problem in a win-win situation would be to fulfill both wishes as they are both valid
perhaps a clanner-forum as subforum to competitive discussion?
<!--QuoteBegin-Firewater+Apr 19 2005, 09:47 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Firewater @ Apr 19 2005, 09:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> As much as you would love this to be a stab at your community, its not.
There are several clanners that have been banned for skill, and are viewed as elitist. Not just me.
Good try.
This forum will not magically spawn up new interest in competitive NS. I have no problem with others viewing the discussions, but the forum should be for competitive players only.
I know a lot of people think they are the exception, but if you haven't played competitively, or are currently playing competitively, I see no reason for those who are not in one of those two current situations being allowed to post here.
If you really want to post that bad, perhaps join a clan? If anything restricting this to the criteria I have already stated could motivate people to join a clan as they would feel apart of a special community on the NS forums.
It would also cut down on the banter and locked threads that have been started by public players. See the past posts for evidence of uselessness on the public players part. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I don't view it as a stab at my community, I don't really see myself as part of a different comunity then you are.
You draw these hard lines between pubbers and clanners and then you assign traits to them. That just isn't the way it works. The vast majority of pubbers don't disrespect clanners, don't belive your scripts are exploits, and don't belive that you are definately exploint scripting/hacking just because you can metabolize mid blink properly, or acidrocket mid blink.
Skilled pubbers deal with the same accusations and bull that skilled clanners do, the fact of the matter is, it isn't only clanners who get ostricized for being good, and all pubbers do not ostricize clanners.
Granted these forums do not churn up new interst in clanning that was not there before, but they do feed established intrest. I kind of doubt anyone but Chaos Xero acctually decided to JOIN a clan after reading something here, but these forums do generate and facilitate interest in compeditive NS play, expecially when they are working properly and not just acting as a place to freely flame anyone you dislike.
I don't see why you belive you need to keep this forum free of outside input. Granted there will be the occational troll that will come along and make life miserable, but that is what the restriction functions are for. This is one of the only areas where clan players and less compeditive players can share opinions and thoughts on issues directly relevent to competitive NS gaming, this place is a huge oppertunity to educate the masses who are MORE then largely ignorant about what is going on in compeditive NS, let alone how it works. You already have the cal forums and hundreds of vent channels in which you communicate with other compeditive gamers almost entirely without the interest or observation of non compeditive players, why bother making this the same thing?
To be fair I have seen more banter and locks come out of the competitive players who take this forum as an oppertunity to flame others then I have seen from public players who just post ignorantly. We still have the occational newbie wander into the mapping forum and tell us we all need to make a big seige map with polkadot walls entirely underwater or something, that is why digz and grendal are here just like the mapping forum mods are there to manage that. I think you guys are more then capable of putting up with the occational frustratingly ignorant remark after all the crap you deal with just joining up your basic random pub server.
I see no reason why we need an exclusivley compeditive forum on the NS forums. If you guys are part of the NS comunity, the issues relevent to your gameplay are somewhat relevant to the rest of us too, even if we chose to ignore them or criticize them. I'm not saying that we should allow people to flame others, expecially over issues that are pretty much granted as acceptable in the outlets of the compeditive comunity. I'm just saying there is no need to push weakly bridged gaps farther apart.
look theres nothing wrong with people reading this forum and showing their interest, however just note one thing: if theres a "balance-thread" then dont just dont go and post your ideas and suggestions if youve never played in a clan. and this means in a clan, not some random mercs/pugs. people dont want to read stuff like "but in our server we play 9 vs 9 with server regulars often on therefore were almost like a clan!", you arent.
another one are these threads that comment on some match, again if youve never played clan games then dont post your ideas how the losing team shouldve in your opinion played. posts like that should be just deleted.
<!--QuoteBegin-TOmekki+Apr 20 2005, 03:44 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TOmekki @ Apr 20 2005, 03:44 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> look theres nothing wrong with people reading this forum and showing their interest, however just note one thing: if theres a "balance-thread" then dont just dont go and post your ideas and suggestions if youve never played in a clan. and this means in a clan, not some random mercs/pugs. people dont want to read stuff like "but in our server we play 9 vs 9 with server regulars often on therefore were almost like a clan!", you arent.
another one are these threads that comment on some match, again if youve never played clan games then dont post your ideas how the losing team shouldve in your opinion played. posts like that should be just deleted.
ps: malibu your sig is hilarious. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Fair enough. Usually when I post in balance threads I'm just mirroring the comments of a compeditive player that I heard before that I agreed with... I recognize that that type of input isn't really needed, it's just what I do, spam forums, my post count is bloated for a reason <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/nerd-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Pretty much since I have been around the NS forums I have read nearly every post in nearly every thread. I don't know as much as you guys about the current issues in compeditive gaming, but I have been hearing you all talk about crap for a LONG time, so I do know some stuff, even if alot of it is history now.
<!--QuoteBegin-Swiftspear+Apr 20 2005, 03:55 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Swiftspear @ Apr 20 2005, 03:55 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-TOmekki+Apr 20 2005, 03:44 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TOmekki @ Apr 20 2005, 03:44 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> look theres nothing wrong with people reading this forum and showing their interest, however just note one thing: if theres a "balance-thread" then dont just dont go and post your ideas and suggestions if youve never played in a clan. and this means in a clan, not some random mercs/pugs. people dont want to read stuff like "but in our server we play 9 vs 9 with server regulars often on therefore were almost like a clan!", you arent.
another one are these threads that comment on some match, again if youve never played clan games then dont post your ideas how the losing team shouldve in your opinion played. posts like that should be just deleted.
ps: malibu your sig is hilarious. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Fair enough. Usually when I post in balance threads I'm just mirroring the comments of a compeditive player that I heard before that I agreed with... I recognize that that type of input isn't really needed, it's just what I do, spam forums, my post count is bloated for a reason <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/nerd-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Pretty much since I have been around the NS forums I have read nearly every post in nearly every thread. I don't know as much as you guys about the current issues in compeditive gaming, but I have been hearing you all talk about crap for a LONG time, so I do know some stuff, even if alot of it is history now. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> less forum spamming more trialing for clans k
its cal preseason already, you might want to hurry up
<!--QuoteBegin-TOmekki+Apr 20 2005, 03:44 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TOmekki @ Apr 20 2005, 03:44 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> look theres nothing wrong with people reading this forum and showing their interest, however just note one thing: if theres a "balance-thread" then dont just dont go and post your ideas and suggestions if youve never played in a clan. and this means in a clan, not some random mercs/pugs. people dont want to read stuff like "but in our server we play 9 vs 9 with server regulars often on therefore were almost like a clan!", you arent.
another one are these threads that comment on some match, again if youve never played clan games then dont post your ideas how the losing team shouldve in your opinion played. posts like that should be just deleted.
ps: malibu your sig is hilarious. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> How about you just ignore the clueless players? If someone makes a dumb post then forward past it and respond to the rest of the thread. I am sure you can find threads where players make totally incorrect statements everywhere on the forums, it doesn't mean those people should be denied access from said forum just because they are clueless.
Oh, and I am not referring to players that come post that scripts are lame and all players that are on a competitive team are elitist, clearly those people should be dealt with because they are just trolling. As for the people who walk into a balance thread and start spewing BS. Sure, they are spewing BS but it is their opinion. You can't honestly say that it is that hard to deal with one person spewing BS on a video game forum.
<!--QuoteBegin-RBS+Apr 20 2005, 04:55 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (RBS @ Apr 20 2005, 04:55 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> How about you just ignore the clueless players? If someone makes a dumb post then forward past it and respond to the rest of the thread. I am sure you can find threads where players make totally incorrect statements everywhere on the forums, it doesn't mean those people should be denied access from said forum just because they are clueless. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> theres enough places for uneducated people to make uneducated balance suggestions already on these forums. maybe lets just reserve this little forum as a place where people that do have a clue dont have to put up with crap like that? that means certain posts being deleted without warning from said balance threads, yeah.
That_Annoying_KidSire of TitlesJoin Date: 2003-03-01Member: 14175Members, Constellation
grendel, by following your system I would be unable to post in this, despite playing NS since 1.0, playing in a several ill fated clans, and intending to join the clan scene as soon as I get a reliable access to a decent computer / connection.
certain people get more stock in what they say cause I can recall competitive background and the like, anyone truly in the scene can tell when someone hasn't a clue and they can just ignore acordingly
ChurchMeatshield grunt-fodder // Has pre-ordered NS2Join Date: 2002-12-31Member: 11646Members, Constellation
<!--QuoteBegin-Grendel+Apr 20 2005, 07:08 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Grendel @ Apr 20 2005, 07:08 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Some moderation of this sub-forum is inevitable.
I am simply asking what degree of moderation people want. Posts that are spam are deleted. I am looking to see what people consider spam.
Personally, I'd like to delete every post that doesn't display the slightest acknowledgement of the rules of grammar or spelling. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> That is a GREAT idea Grendel. I say we start that change right away!
In any case. Here's what I think should happen. Skip below for short version since I tend to blow things out of the water. A lot.
***
I think the forum should be moderated just like the Discussions forum. We are to consider (almost) every single post in here to be about competitive gaming, and as such, posts that do not fit into such a category should be pruned.
However, limiting it to clanners isn't generally the best idea. There are quite a few pubbers that can play up to par with clans, and I don't think their views should be any different than ours. I myself don't necessarily play in a clan, or have in any way participated in competitive matches (although I wish to do so sometime later), but I do think it is nice to get some feedback from the other side, provided that it is presentable and actually makes sense (and not another one of those OMG IMBALANCE threads....) Surely enough people will continusly shoot down each other's points, but that's what you get in Competitive discussions anyway. If they wished that their points weren't shot down with burning arrows they should have posted in General Discussions.
What I'm saying is to allow non-clanners to at least participate in something here and expand what they know about the game to some degree, and prune the nonsense. This way we can get the best out of both worlds, and those who become interested in the clanning scene would pretty much join in some discussion that would help them further their knowledge of the game a bit more.
***
Or I can take the short way out and say I agree with Adj and NGE (including the arguing in a circle thing) =\
And on a side-note...I need to get with the times and get used to SMD build orders before I try for the competitive scene <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-surprise+Apr 20 2005, 03:02 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (surprise @ Apr 20 2005, 03:02 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> as i see it there 2 visions of the comptitive forum that just cant go along
whilst some want a place where all questions and matters about competitive ns can be asked, answered and discussed, others want an exclusive clanner-forum
now as i see it, the only way to solve the problem in a win-win situation would be to fulfill both wishes as they are both valid
perhaps a clanner-forum as subforum to competitive discussion?
in that way everybody would be pleased
::edit::
and plz guys, stay calm, no need to get personal <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> This is an acute observation, however do you realize that you can have both forums exist within this forum as it is right now?
People can still ask competetive questions here, and still post here if they are a pubber. However, they would be removed only if they try arguing with people with more experience, which is basically trolling.
So when you see a thread talking about balance issues in here, and you've only played in a few scrims and maybe one match, perhaps you should think twice before posting a comment, because what you say is blantantly wrong you could face a removal of posting privilages in here.
It's not mean. It's not elitist. This is the competetive forum; keep it efficent.
<!--QuoteBegin-Church+Apr 20 2005, 05:15 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Church @ Apr 20 2005, 05:15 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Only if it is done better than the previous one. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> The one prior to the attrocious vet system was actually pretty good..
The problem is we shot ourselves in the foot by acting like a bunch of kids that have never been good at anything before, and don't know how to handle other people's (competitive people's) opinions.
I honestly thought despite that the first vet system was great, 2.01 in my opinion was the most fair version of NS. The balance was brought to you by the veterans who competed in the top 10 teams at the time.
If we could bring back the old vet system and limit conversation to things that are constructive, and have the moderators deal with violations of that rule on a case by case basis (rather than collapsing the whole vet program) would be the most effective means of moderating this forum, and restricting it to those who know what they are talking about in clan play.
However the vet system was not viewed very favorably among the dev team, so I do not think this system will work out.
I think if people really want to view this forum for serious competitive discussion, then they should join a clan. Why talk about something that does not apply to one's own self. I think the underlying tone about this whole forum debate is that competitive players would be getting access to something the general public does not. It wouldn't matter what forum they got access to, the people who aren't competitive would still complain.
I bet those who complain and whine for the forum access will rarely use it anyway.
Leave this forum for competitive players. If that means I have my access removed because I no longer compete, then so be it. Otherwise, I see this forum being no different than general discussion.
I come here to read the opinions of competive players. (Competitive being people that have played 6vs6 with ff on.) However I don't think the forums should be limited to those people only. I would hope this forum would peak interst in competitive play. So here is my solution:
Everyone that would be consider a "competive player" give them a special icon/symbol/sig so everyone will know who that person is. Its sorta like the vet program but for the forums. In doing this everyone will if a post was made by a person that has competive experience or not.
<!--QuoteBegin-Swiftspear+Apr 20 2005, 03:55 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Swiftspear @ Apr 20 2005, 03:55 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-TOmekki+Apr 20 2005, 03:44 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TOmekki @ Apr 20 2005, 03:44 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> look theres nothing wrong with people reading this forum and showing their interest, however just note one thing: if theres a "balance-thread" then dont just dont go and post your ideas and suggestions if youve never played in a clan. and this means in a clan, not some random mercs/pugs. people dont want to read stuff like "but in our server we play 9 vs 9 with server regulars often on therefore were almost like a clan!", you arent.
another one are these threads that comment on some match, again if youve never played clan games then dont post your ideas how the losing team shouldve in your opinion played. posts like that should be just deleted.
ps: malibu your sig is hilarious. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Fair enough. Usually when I post in balance threads I'm just mirroring the comments of a compeditive player that I heard before that I agreed with... I recognize that that type of input isn't really needed, it's just what I do, spam forums, my post count is bloated for a reason <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/nerd-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Pretty much since I have been around the NS forums I have read nearly every post in nearly every thread. I don't know as much as you guys about the current issues in compeditive gaming, but I have been hearing you all talk about crap for a LONG time, so I do know some stuff, even if alot of it is history now.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Watching a debate does not mean I will understand the issues at all, plus this is an internet forum and a lot of the people you will see posting might look like they know what they are talking about but wil have no clue. So really unless you are a "clanner" then you have no real need to post here unless its a question. If you want to talk about competitive things there is another forum for it called <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?c=5' target='_blank'>Natural Selection Organized Play</a>.
TheAdj hit the nail on the head with his post about people who scrim twice and think they can post here. Really though, competitive players are people who play on teams who try to win league championships, not pub/pug teams founded to scrim for fun. Those are players who should be here having discussions.
I'm inbetween clans now, but I played four seasons of CAL so I still think I can occassionally contribute to certain discussions. And with the way that certain *ahem* skilled players declare their intention to quit every other week, I think there's enough people who can discuss "competitive play" without competitively playing. There just seems to be a lot of people who think they're competitively playing the game, but whose opinions belong in General Discussion.
If that made any sense. So yeah, in conclusion, just delete the posts that don't belong here.
<!--QuoteBegin-Grahf+Apr 20 2005, 01:10 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Grahf @ Apr 20 2005, 01:10 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Swiftspear+Apr 20 2005, 03:55 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Swiftspear @ Apr 20 2005, 03:55 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-TOmekki+Apr 20 2005, 03:44 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TOmekki @ Apr 20 2005, 03:44 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> look theres nothing wrong with people reading this forum and showing their interest, however just note one thing: if theres a "balance-thread" then dont just dont go and post your ideas and suggestions if youve never played in a clan. and this means in a clan, not some random mercs/pugs. people dont want to read stuff like "but in our server we play 9 vs 9 with server regulars often on therefore were almost like a clan!", you arent.
another one are these threads that comment on some match, again if youve never played clan games then dont post your ideas how the losing team shouldve in your opinion played. posts like that should be just deleted.
ps: malibu your sig is hilarious. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Fair enough. Usually when I post in balance threads I'm just mirroring the comments of a compeditive player that I heard before that I agreed with... I recognize that that type of input isn't really needed, it's just what I do, spam forums, my post count is bloated for a reason <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/nerd-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Pretty much since I have been around the NS forums I have read nearly every post in nearly every thread. I don't know as much as you guys about the current issues in compeditive gaming, but I have been hearing you all talk about crap for a LONG time, so I do know some stuff, even if alot of it is history now.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Watching a debate does not mean I will understand the issues at all, plus this is an internet forum and a lot of the people you will see posting might look like they know what they are talking about but wil have no clue. So really unless you are a "clanner" then you have no real need to post here unless its a question. If you want to talk about competitive things there is another forum for it called <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?c=5' target='_blank'>Natural Selection Organized Play</a>. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Thats a great suggestion.
Questions can be asked in the General Competitive forum, and the pubbers can discuss whatever they would chime in here with in the other forum.
Comments
Finally, I think the biggest problem is that even some of the best clanners can be severly immature at times and make really stupid posts/comments. It happens to the best of us. Really.
So, please, leave this forum open for everyone, but weed out the crap and to eveyone who reads and posts here: Make your posts <i>Count</i>.
-Chaos Xero, competetive non-clanner
Should people, whose sigs do not display a clan affiliation, have their posts deleted? After all, this otherwise just starts becoming General Discussion.
Discuss and let me know.
P.S. Obviously, if we implement this system, you'll have to include your clan tag/nick in your sig to post here. <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Whilst you're at it, can you delete all posts from the mapping forum made by non mappers, or perhaps any threads in customisation by anyone who hasn't released anything?
As an outsider here (although i do lurk around this forum), do you have any idea how ridiculous this idea sounds? Too many people complain about the clan scene either dying or being too small, so you're willing to make a move to alienate more players? How, exactly, does that help the "dwindling" or "weak" clan scene? Surely welcoming all players, regardless of clan affiliation or experience, to the competetive "scene" is what you'd want to achieve, not the opposite? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
If I posted in the Mapping Forum and replied to "hey look at my map" threads with "add walls you can blow down with the GL, make the water reflective, and quadruple the size of the map", you'd think I was a retard. There are people who post in this forum that reply in EXACTLY the same manner, but instead of mapping, it's on competitive play. There are people that are clueless as to how competitive play works, think they have an idea from playing a couple of scrims, and are suddenly expert competitive players. I've had random pubbers tell me that I'm a clueless commander. I can't help but lol, because they're totally ignorant of the scene and think just because they've scrimmed a few omega clans they suddenly know what's up. I played for 2 months before I even had close to a clue how competitive play worked, and my team ended up as semi finalists in Season3 of Omega. You are not a competitive player because you scrim, you are a competitive player when you've played in a league or tournament against other skilled teams.
This forum has nothing to do with welcoming new players to the competitive scene. I don't think a single person has a problem with people posting questions in here, or with anyone reading the threads or even asking questions in on-going threads. What people have a problem with is nit-wit responses to threads that show their ignorance of the scene and how competitive play works.
I've already made the Discussion Forum-like rules suggestion and so has NGE. Gotta say that's the best way to run it while allowing anyone to read the threads. What it should boil down to is if you don't have experience, don't post in a thread that requires experience to post.
Should people, whose sigs do not display a clan affiliation, have their posts deleted? After all, this otherwise just starts becoming General Discussion.
Discuss and let me know.
P.S. Obviously, if we implement this system, you'll have to include your clan tag/nick in your sig to post here. <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Whilst you're at it, can you delete all posts from the mapping forum made by non mappers, or perhaps any threads in customisation by anyone who hasn't released anything?
As an outsider here (although i do lurk around this forum), do you have any idea how ridiculous this idea sounds? Too many people complain about the clan scene either dying or being too small, so you're willing to make a move to alienate more players? How, exactly, does that help the "dwindling" or "weak" clan scene? Surely welcoming all players, regardless of clan affiliation or experience, to the competetive "scene" is what you'd want to achieve, not the opposite? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
while its true that non-mappers and mappers can post in the mapping forum, and that the the contributors and non-contributors can post in the customization forum, there is no debate between the groups as there is between the public community in the clan community.
The non-contributors don't ban the contributors from their servers, and the non-contributors don't call the contributors elitist blah blah *insert whiney typical pubber comment towards competitive people* .
This is typical day to day activity for the public community and the competitive community.
It does make sense to seperate the competitive discussion from public discussion, simply so that the pubber/clanner debate does not go on.
A lot of non-competitive players have nothing to contribute to this forum. Some do.
The competitive players should have a place to call their own on this forums. I think its great that the dev team allows this forum, but they should keep it competitive only.
Also people would join or leave the competitive scene regardless whether or not there was a forum here for competitive players. So that point is irrelevant. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Did you read this before you posted it?
You suggest you restrict all non clanners because some of them have called you elitist...
I've been skill banned from servers, and I am not compeditive. There are MANY MANY compeditive players who I would never call elitist. I don't see how you can draw the lines you are drawing here WITHOUT being elitist.
Clanners aren't the only ones getting banned from servers for being skilled, and the vast majority of pubbers don't claim that all clanners are elitist. Your claims of prejudice against you are misdirected.
Also this forum is a great place for people who do not belong to the compeditive scene to get an idea of what is involved and in such it may be a great way to raise awareness of issues in the compeditive comunity and what is going on. Just because recruitment and quiting will still happen weather or not this forum is still around, doesn't mean that this place can't help it out. The point is not irrelevant.
There are several clanners that have been banned for skill, and are viewed as elitist. Not just me.
Good try.
This forum will not magically spawn up new interest in competitive NS. I have no problem with others viewing the discussions, but the forum should be for competitive players only.
I know a lot of people think they are the exception, but if you haven't played competitively, or are currently playing competitively, I see no reason for those who are not in one of those two current situations being allowed to post here.
If you really want to post that bad, perhaps join a clan? If anything restricting this to the criteria I have already stated could motivate people to join a clan as they would feel apart of a special community on the NS forums.
It would also cut down on the banter and locked threads that have been started by public players. See the past posts for evidence of uselessness on the public players part.
'My Community'? As I see it that is VERY elitist. I dont beleive anyone should be excluded comepletely from comepetetive discussion because they aren't in <b><i>Your</i></b> community. This isn't about who is and isnt competetive in your view, its about who is in the community as a whole. As I stated earlier, why not just keep a closer eye here and moderate the conversations. 'Your' community isnt any better than
'our' community.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->This forum will not magically spawn up new interest in competitive NS. I have no problem with others viewing the discussions, but the forum should be for competitive players only.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I for one, was inspired to join a clan again after seeing some of the people who talk in this forum, for one, and it could be a GREAT recruiting tool if we simply cleaned it up. But dont clean by blacklisting 'Pubbers' and 'non-competetive' players.
'My Community'? As I see it that is VERY elitist. I dont beleive anyone should be excluded comepletely from comepetetive discussion because they aren't in <b><i>Your</i></b> community. This isn't about who is and isnt competetive in your view, its about who is in the community as a whole. As I stated earlier, why not just keep a closer eye here and moderate the conversations. 'Your' community isnt any better than
'our' community.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->This forum will not magically spawn up new interest in competitive NS. I have no problem with others viewing the discussions, but the forum should be for competitive players only.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I for one, was inspired to join a clan again after seeing some of the people who talk in this forum, for one, and it could be a GREAT recruiting tool if we simply cleaned it up. But dont clean by blacklisting 'Pubbers' and 'non-competetive' players. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
God job skipping around the arguement and wasting peoples time, this is why they want it limited.
This says more about your knowledge (or lack of) of the competitive scene than anything else.
<a href='http://www.caleague.com/?page=standings&conference=all&subdivision=all' target='_blank'>http://www.caleague.com/?page=standings&co...subdivision=all</a>
so called '"dwindling" or "weak" clan scene' & we're only in the second week of pre-season matches (that means the actual season doesn't start until next week).
I'm sure other people can provide examples from europe & pacific leagues.
<!--QuoteBegin-Swiftspear+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Swiftspear)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I've been skill banned from servers, and I am not compeditive.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<span style='color:yellow'><s>I'd love to know which servers have "skill banned" Swiftspear. I'm always up for a good laugh.</s></span>
<!--QuoteBegin-Chaos Xero+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Chaos Xero)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-FireWater+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (FireWater)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
As much as you would love this to be a stab at your community, its not.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
'My Community'? As I see it that is VERY elitist. I dont beleive anyone should be excluded comepletely from comepetetive discussion because they aren't in Your community. This isn't about who is and isnt competetive in your view, its about who is in the community as a whole. As I stated earlier, why not just keep a closer eye here and moderate the conversations. 'Your' community isnt any better than
'our' community.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<span style='color:yellow'><s>Good job taking a reply from FireWater to Swiftspear as if it was directed at you. Self-Obsessed much?</s> Unnecessary roughing, first warning.</span>
Scottish Malibu your sig is awsome.
This says more about your knowledge (or lack of) of the competitive scene than anything else.
<a href='http://www.caleague.com/?page=standings&conference=all&subdivision=all' target='_blank'>http://www.caleague.com/?page=standings&co...subdivision=all</a>
so called '"dwindling" or "weak" clan scene' & we're only in the second week of pre-season matches (that means the actual season doesn't start until next week).
I'm sure other people can provide examples from europe & pacific leagues. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Somehow I doubt he was talking about the current cal season... I really doubt he has even looked at all at anything to do with the current cal season.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-Swiftspear+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Swiftspear)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I've been skill banned from servers, and I am not compeditive.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'd love to know which servers have "skill banned" Swiftspear. I'm always up for a good laugh.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->Only **** keep a list of every server that bans them. When I get banned I generally just find somewhere else to play and forget about it. If you MUST have a list I could direct you to the .txt website or get PJ to post his. Niether of them are clanners yet they have banlists of servers that have skillbanned them. If you mean to claim that I am lying when I imply that people asside from clanners get skill banned then you are ignorant, period.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-Chaos Xero+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Chaos Xero)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-FireWater+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (FireWater)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
As much as you would love this to be a stab at your community, its not.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
'My Community'? As I see it that is VERY elitist. I dont beleive anyone should be excluded comepletely from comepetetive discussion because they aren't in Your community. This isn't about who is and isnt competetive in your view, its about who is in the community as a whole. As I stated earlier, why not just keep a closer eye here and moderate the conversations. 'Your' community isnt any better than
'our' community.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Good job taking a reply from FireWater to Swiftspear as if it was directed at you. Self-Obsessed much?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
My PM box isn't full. Firewater is leaving his comments open to anyone with his response in a public forum.
whilst some want a place where all questions and matters about competitive ns can be asked, answered and discussed, others want an exclusive clanner-forum
now as i see it, the only way to solve the problem in a win-win situation would be to fulfill both wishes as they are both valid
perhaps a clanner-forum as subforum to competitive discussion?
in that way everybody would be pleased
::edit::
and plz guys, stay calm, no need to get personal
There are several clanners that have been banned for skill, and are viewed as elitist. Not just me.
Good try.
This forum will not magically spawn up new interest in competitive NS. I have no problem with others viewing the discussions, but the forum should be for competitive players only.
I know a lot of people think they are the exception, but if you haven't played competitively, or are currently playing competitively, I see no reason for those who are not in one of those two current situations being allowed to post here.
If you really want to post that bad, perhaps join a clan? If anything restricting this to the criteria I have already stated could motivate people to join a clan as they would feel apart of a special community on the NS forums.
It would also cut down on the banter and locked threads that have been started by public players. See the past posts for evidence of uselessness on the public players part. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't view it as a stab at my community, I don't really see myself as part of a different comunity then you are.
You draw these hard lines between pubbers and clanners and then you assign traits to them. That just isn't the way it works. The vast majority of pubbers don't disrespect clanners, don't belive your scripts are exploits, and don't belive that you are definately exploint scripting/hacking just because you can metabolize mid blink properly, or acidrocket mid blink.
Skilled pubbers deal with the same accusations and bull that skilled clanners do, the fact of the matter is, it isn't only clanners who get ostricized for being good, and all pubbers do not ostricize clanners.
Granted these forums do not churn up new interst in clanning that was not there before, but they do feed established intrest. I kind of doubt anyone but Chaos Xero acctually decided to JOIN a clan after reading something here, but these forums do generate and facilitate interest in compeditive NS play, expecially when they are working properly and not just acting as a place to freely flame anyone you dislike.
I don't see why you belive you need to keep this forum free of outside input. Granted there will be the occational troll that will come along and make life miserable, but that is what the restriction functions are for. This is one of the only areas where clan players and less compeditive players can share opinions and thoughts on issues directly relevent to competitive NS gaming, this place is a huge oppertunity to educate the masses who are MORE then largely ignorant about what is going on in compeditive NS, let alone how it works. You already have the cal forums and hundreds of vent channels in which you communicate with other compeditive gamers almost entirely without the interest or observation of non compeditive players, why bother making this the same thing?
To be fair I have seen more banter and locks come out of the competitive players who take this forum as an oppertunity to flame others then I have seen from public players who just post ignorantly. We still have the occational newbie wander into the mapping forum and tell us we all need to make a big seige map with polkadot walls entirely underwater or something, that is why digz and grendal are here just like the mapping forum mods are there to manage that. I think you guys are more then capable of putting up with the occational frustratingly ignorant remark after all the crap you deal with just joining up your basic random pub server.
I see no reason why we need an exclusivley compeditive forum on the NS forums. If you guys are part of the NS comunity, the issues relevent to your gameplay are somewhat relevant to the rest of us too, even if we chose to ignore them or criticize them. I'm not saying that we should allow people to flame others, expecially over issues that are pretty much granted as acceptable in the outlets of the compeditive comunity. I'm just saying there is no need to push weakly bridged gaps farther apart.
another one are these threads that comment on some match, again if youve never played clan games then dont post your ideas how the losing team shouldve in your opinion played. posts like that should be just deleted.
ps: malibu your sig is hilarious.
another one are these threads that comment on some match, again if youve never played clan games then dont post your ideas how the losing team shouldve in your opinion played. posts like that should be just deleted.
ps: malibu your sig is hilarious. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Fair enough. Usually when I post in balance threads I'm just mirroring the comments of a compeditive player that I heard before that I agreed with... I recognize that that type of input isn't really needed, it's just what I do, spam forums, my post count is bloated for a reason <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/nerd-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Pretty much since I have been around the NS forums I have read nearly every post in nearly every thread. I don't know as much as you guys about the current issues in compeditive gaming, but I have been hearing you all talk about crap for a LONG time, so I do know some stuff, even if alot of it is history now.
another one are these threads that comment on some match, again if youve never played clan games then dont post your ideas how the losing team shouldve in your opinion played. posts like that should be just deleted.
ps: malibu your sig is hilarious. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Fair enough. Usually when I post in balance threads I'm just mirroring the comments of a compeditive player that I heard before that I agreed with... I recognize that that type of input isn't really needed, it's just what I do, spam forums, my post count is bloated for a reason <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/nerd-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Pretty much since I have been around the NS forums I have read nearly every post in nearly every thread. I don't know as much as you guys about the current issues in compeditive gaming, but I have been hearing you all talk about crap for a LONG time, so I do know some stuff, even if alot of it is history now. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
less forum spamming more trialing for clans k
its cal preseason already, you might want to hurry up
another one are these threads that comment on some match, again if youve never played clan games then dont post your ideas how the losing team shouldve in your opinion played. posts like that should be just deleted.
ps: malibu your sig is hilarious. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How about you just ignore the clueless players? If someone makes a dumb post then forward past it and respond to the rest of the thread. I am sure you can find threads where players make totally incorrect statements everywhere on the forums, it doesn't mean those people should be denied access from said forum just because they are clueless.
Oh, and I am not referring to players that come post that scripts are lame and all players that are on a competitive team are elitist, clearly those people should be dealt with because they are just trolling. As for the people who walk into a balance thread and start spewing BS. Sure, they are spewing BS but it is their opinion. You can't honestly say that it is that hard to deal with one person spewing BS on a video game forum.
vet system anyone?
theres enough places for uneducated people to make uneducated balance suggestions already on these forums. maybe lets just reserve this little forum as a place where people that do have a clue dont have to put up with crap like that? that means certain posts being deleted without warning from said balance threads, yeah.
adj said it best, really.
certain people get more stock in what they say cause I can recall competitive background and the like, anyone truly in the scene can tell when someone hasn't a clue and they can just ignore acordingly
I am simply asking what degree of moderation people want. Posts that are spam are deleted. I am looking to see what people consider spam.
Personally, I'd like to delete every post that doesn't display the slightest acknowledgement of the rules of grammar or spelling.
I am simply asking what degree of moderation people want. Posts that are spam are deleted. I am looking to see what people consider spam.
Personally, I'd like to delete every post that doesn't display the slightest acknowledgement of the rules of grammar or spelling. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
That is a GREAT idea Grendel. I say we start that change right away!
In any case. Here's what I think should happen. Skip below for short version since I tend to blow things out of the water. A lot.
***
I think the forum should be moderated just like the Discussions forum. We are to consider (almost) every single post in here to be about competitive gaming, and as such, posts that do not fit into such a category should be pruned.
However, limiting it to clanners isn't generally the best idea. There are quite a few pubbers that can play up to par with clans, and I don't think their views should be any different than ours. I myself don't necessarily play in a clan, or have in any way participated in competitive matches (although I wish to do so sometime later), but I do think it is nice to get some feedback from the other side, provided that it is presentable and actually makes sense (and not another one of those OMG IMBALANCE threads....) Surely enough people will continusly shoot down each other's points, but that's what you get in Competitive discussions anyway. If they wished that their points weren't shot down with burning arrows they should have posted in General Discussions.
What I'm saying is to allow non-clanners to at least participate in something here and expand what they know about the game to some degree, and prune the nonsense. This way we can get the best out of both worlds, and those who become interested in the clanning scene would pretty much join in some discussion that would help them further their knowledge of the game a bit more.
***
Or I can take the short way out and say I agree with Adj and NGE (including the arguing in a circle thing) =\
And on a side-note...I need to get with the times and get used to SMD build orders before I try for the competitive scene <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
whilst some want a place where all questions and matters about competitive ns can be asked, answered and discussed, others want an exclusive clanner-forum
now as i see it, the only way to solve the problem in a win-win situation would be to fulfill both wishes as they are both valid
perhaps a clanner-forum as subforum to competitive discussion?
in that way everybody would be pleased
::edit::
and plz guys, stay calm, no need to get personal <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is an acute observation, however do you realize that you can have both forums exist within this forum as it is right now?
People can still ask competetive questions here, and still post here if they are a pubber. However, they would be removed only if they try arguing with people with more experience, which is basically trolling.
So when you see a thread talking about balance issues in here, and you've only played in a few scrims and maybe one match, perhaps you should think twice before posting a comment, because what you say is blantantly wrong you could face a removal of posting privilages in here.
It's not mean. It's not elitist. This is the competetive forum; keep it efficent.
The one prior to the attrocious vet system was actually pretty good..
The problem is we shot ourselves in the foot by acting like a bunch of kids that have never been good at anything before, and don't know how to handle other people's (competitive people's) opinions.
I honestly thought despite that the first vet system was great, 2.01 in my opinion was the most fair version of NS. The balance was brought to you by the veterans who competed in the top 10 teams at the time.
If we could bring back the old vet system and limit conversation to things that are constructive, and have the moderators deal with violations of that rule on a case by case basis (rather than collapsing the whole vet program) would be the most effective means of moderating this forum, and restricting it to those who know what they are talking about in clan play.
However the vet system was not viewed very favorably among the dev team, so I do not think this system will work out.
I think if people really want to view this forum for serious competitive discussion, then they should join a clan. Why talk about something that does not apply to one's own self. I think the underlying tone about this whole forum debate is that competitive players would be getting access to something the general public does not. It wouldn't matter what forum they got access to, the people who aren't competitive would still complain.
I bet those who complain and whine for the forum access will rarely use it anyway.
Leave this forum for competitive players. If that means I have my access removed because I no longer compete, then so be it. Otherwise, I see this forum being no different than general discussion.
I come here to read the opinions of competive players. (Competitive being people that have played 6vs6 with ff on.) However I don't think the forums should be limited to those people only. I would hope this forum would peak interst in competitive play. So here is my solution:
Everyone that would be consider a "competive player" give them a special icon/symbol/sig so everyone will know who that person is. Its sorta like the vet program but for the forums. In doing this everyone will if a post was made by a person that has competive experience or not.
another one are these threads that comment on some match, again if youve never played clan games then dont post your ideas how the losing team shouldve in your opinion played. posts like that should be just deleted.
ps: malibu your sig is hilarious. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Fair enough. Usually when I post in balance threads I'm just mirroring the comments of a compeditive player that I heard before that I agreed with... I recognize that that type of input isn't really needed, it's just what I do, spam forums, my post count is bloated for a reason <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/nerd-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Pretty much since I have been around the NS forums I have read nearly every post in nearly every thread. I don't know as much as you guys about the current issues in compeditive gaming, but I have been hearing you all talk about crap for a LONG time, so I do know some stuff, even if alot of it is history now.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Watching a debate does not mean I will understand the issues at all, plus this is an internet forum and a lot of the people you will see posting might look like they know what they are talking about but wil have no clue. So really unless you are a "clanner" then you have no real need to post here unless its a question. If you want to talk about competitive things there is another forum for it called <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?c=5' target='_blank'>Natural Selection Organized Play</a>.
I'm inbetween clans now, but I played four seasons of CAL so I still think I can occassionally contribute to certain discussions. And with the way that certain *ahem* skilled players declare their intention to quit every other week, I think there's enough people who can discuss "competitive play" without competitively playing. There just seems to be a lot of people who think they're competitively playing the game, but whose opinions belong in General Discussion.
If that made any sense. So yeah, in conclusion, just delete the posts that don't belong here.
another one are these threads that comment on some match, again if youve never played clan games then dont post your ideas how the losing team shouldve in your opinion played. posts like that should be just deleted.
ps: malibu your sig is hilarious. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Fair enough. Usually when I post in balance threads I'm just mirroring the comments of a compeditive player that I heard before that I agreed with... I recognize that that type of input isn't really needed, it's just what I do, spam forums, my post count is bloated for a reason <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/nerd-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Pretty much since I have been around the NS forums I have read nearly every post in nearly every thread. I don't know as much as you guys about the current issues in compeditive gaming, but I have been hearing you all talk about crap for a LONG time, so I do know some stuff, even if alot of it is history now.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Watching a debate does not mean I will understand the issues at all, plus this is an internet forum and a lot of the people you will see posting might look like they know what they are talking about but wil have no clue. So really unless you are a "clanner" then you have no real need to post here unless its a question. If you want to talk about competitive things there is another forum for it called <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?c=5' target='_blank'>Natural Selection Organized Play</a>. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thats a great suggestion.
Questions can be asked in the General Competitive forum, and the pubbers can discuss whatever they would chime in here with in the other forum.
That way everyone is happy.