Spawn Camping
Lofung
Join Date: 2004-08-21 Member: 30757Members
Join Date: 2004-08-21 Member: 30757Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Approval?</div> Asking about spawn camping
"legal, or illegal"?
Talking about specific cases:
1. Marines camping in hive location, killing skulks. provided that it is the start of the game, 0w0a. So it takes a long time to shoot down the hive if they do.
2.A (a few maybe) skulk in base spawn camping the ip
3. Marines mining up the whole hive.
or anymore, if there is.
BUT NOT:
a phase gate buffet.
"legal, or illegal"?
Talking about specific cases:
1. Marines camping in hive location, killing skulks. provided that it is the start of the game, 0w0a. So it takes a long time to shoot down the hive if they do.
2.A (a few maybe) skulk in base spawn camping the ip
3. Marines mining up the whole hive.
or anymore, if there is.
BUT NOT:
a phase gate buffet.
Comments
For example, a shotgun rush on a hive... some of the shotguns hit the hive, while some spawn camp. This makes sense. I don't approve of people spawn camping "just for fun".
Also, it's hard to define it. A lone marine who has made it to the hive who camps to defend himself while waiting for backup/a phase gate/whatever, this is fine, too.
A lot of people think any spawn camping is just horrible, but I disagree.
What I always say is, <b>if they can't spawn camp, you can't attack them after spawning. It's as simple as that.</b>
Spawn camping is where 3 marines or more rush hive and just sit there waiting for skulks to spawn so they can make their K:D ratio higher isn't tolerated on many servers. Infact alot ban you without warning for it!
But if 3 rush hive and 2 shoot hive while 1 guards this acceptable even if 8 rush and 4 shoot hive and 4 guard is also acceptable, because this isn't classed as spawn camping because the hive is being taken down in the process. The same goes if aliens rush cc <b>AS THIS IS NOT SPAWN CAMPING!</b>
If 1 alone marine rushes hive and camps this is acceptable. why? because you can't expect 1 alone marine to attack hive and defend himself and the same goes for an alone alien camping cc.
People really need to understand what spawn camping is!
So i will repeat this:
Spawn camping is where 3 marines or more rush hive and just sit there waiting for skulks to spawn so they can make their K:D ratio higher isn't tolerated on many servers <b>AS THIS IS SPAWN CAMPING!</b>
Far too many uneducated admins do not know the difference between tactical spawn camping and "lame" spawn camping (typically bs_1 servers), and I try not to play on servers with admins like that.
Far too many uneducated admins do not know the difference between tactical spawn camping and "lame" spawn camping (typically bs_1 servers), and I try not to play on servers with admins like that. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
hmmm... you just said what i said in a different way <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
It's no fun being spawncamped, this is true. But you have no-one else to blame for a lack of adequate spawn defense. Be grateful he didn't TF your hive on the sly instead.
Don't get me wrong, I hate being spawncamped as much as the next player, but that doesn't mean I can't see a valid use.
I will happily sit in a hive solo and boost my K:D killing spawning skulks, because I'm effectively doing the same thing as Devour. Denying you players in the team. If you let it get so bad that you are all dead and no-one is available to get me out, that's either self-inflicted, or you managed to all die in a short period of time across the map, which is also indicative of poor team coordination.
The only spawncamp I don't agree with is when there is enough marines present to have killed the hive and they don't. But solo, 1, 2? I'll happily ignore the hive, because it stops you MC'ing in, and often the warning goes out too late if there's no 'Hive is under attack' message.
- Shockwave
TheJim summed it up pretty well.
Well that is the split between a pub game and a pug or compeditive game. If a good player starts to spawncamp in a pub game, chances are there is maby 1-2 people on the team who acctually would be able to kill him 1v1 anyways, no one comunicates properly, and if they do announce a spawn camper everyone else expects someone else to deal with it and most of them probably don't bother getting back to hive. Whereas in a compeditive game if a good player starts spawncamping it will be announced right away and at LEAST one player who is still alive on the map will do thier best to get back and do something about it.
On a pub a good player SHOULD be able to spawncamp indefinately given the chance. In a scrim it is the fault of the team being camped if they let themselfs get spawncamped for long. Hence why many pubs don't nessicarly adopt cal rules when it comes to spawncamping. Many people are quite poor at the game and don't get many kills unless they can sit cloaked on a wall somewhere and bite people as they walk by. Spawncamping rules protect those people. Skilled players don't need that protection to compeat nor have fun.
It's no fun being spawncamped, this is true. But you have no-one else to blame for a lack of adequate spawn defense. Be grateful he didn't TF your hive on the sly instead.
Don't get me wrong, I hate being spawncamped as much as the next player, but that doesn't mean I can't see a valid use.
I will happily sit in a hive solo and boost my K:D killing spawning skulks, because I'm effectively doing the same thing as Devour. Denying you players in the team. If you let it get so bad that you are all dead and no-one is available to get me out, that's either self-inflicted, or you managed to all die in a short period of time across the map, which is also indicative of poor team coordination.
The only spawncamp I don't agree with is when there is enough marines present to have killed the hive and they don't. But solo, 1, 2? I'll happily ignore the hive, because it stops you MC'ing in, and often the warning goes out too late if there's no 'Hive is under attack' message.
- Shockwave <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Now say that about CO
You think spawn camp in ns can be bad you should see it in co when 5 marines spawn camp with lvl 3 weapons!
It's no fun being spawncamped, this is true. But you have no-one else to blame for a lack of adequate spawn defense. Be grateful he didn't TF your hive on the sly instead.
Don't get me wrong, I hate being spawncamped as much as the next player, but that doesn't mean I can't see a valid use.
I will happily sit in a hive solo and boost my K:D killing spawning skulks, because I'm effectively doing the same thing as Devour. Denying you players in the team. If you let it get so bad that you are all dead and no-one is available to get me out, that's either self-inflicted, or you managed to all die in a short period of time across the map, which is also indicative of poor team coordination.
The only spawncamp I don't agree with is when there is enough marines present to have killed the hive and they don't. But solo, 1, 2? I'll happily ignore the hive, because it stops you MC'ing in, and often the warning goes out too late if there's no 'Hive is under attack' message.
- Shockwave <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Now say that about CO
You think spawn camp in ns can be bad you should see it in co when 5 marines spawn camp with lvl 3 weapons! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I believe I remember one of the devs (possibly Flayra) saying that Combat was created for "faster moving and more intense battles" in which spawn camping was an intended feature to be promoted to add to the quick battle atmosphere.
Far too many uneducated admins do not know the difference between tactical spawn camping and "lame" spawn camping (typically bs_1 servers), and I try not to play on servers with admins like that. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
hmmm... you just said what i said in a different way <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Duh, but it's still called Spawn camping either way.
-Spawn Killing: The art of eliminating the enemy as they spawn. (Notice the motive is undecided.)
-Spawn Telefrag: Spawning into someone, causing death due to engine limitations. (Does not apply to ns other than teleporters. Right?)
-Insert Random Sleepy Time Rant here-
What I hate is the fact that it really only takes a few competent marines to shutdown a co map. From every game I see, it depends on who gets the shotty/hmg or the fade first. When shottys roll out, if the alien team does not have a fade yet, they have a mild chance of winning compared to having a better chance with a fade. If the smart marine chooses hmg next, he has the ability to mow down skulks with ultimate ease. This is where it gets painful, if its shotties vs the fade, and the fade happens to die. (Some servers actually dont have that one super fade you know.) shotties will tend to rush the alien spawn point. In which the aliens have no time to gestate to higher life forms, Rendering them comepletly useless.
This goes the same for multiple onos/fade in a marine spawn. The difference is, one is at a later time than the other.
Or I could be making this up, its just past experiences that I've ecountered so many times before.
Odd suggestions:
Give upper tiers shorter evolution times,
Give marines increased spawn protection later game. Possible suggestions would be infinite ammo for two seconds, or a repel feature to knock all alien lifeforms back to give the marine some room.
It also confuses me why spawning can't be more creative. Spawn skulks on the walls and in vents. Just make a different entity for teleport (Inconjunction with Redem and the motiv... mobil... movement chamber (Thats the one.))
And like said before, give the marines a repel feature later on in game to prevent heavy lifeform camping.
Error, no sleeeeeeep.
Well that is the split between a pub game and a pug or compeditive game. If a good player starts to spawncamp in a pub game, chances are there is maby 1-2 people on the team who acctually would be able to kill him 1v1 anyways, no one comunicates properly, and if they do announce a spawn camper everyone else expects someone else to deal with it and most of them probably don't bother getting back to hive. Whereas in a compeditive game if a good player starts spawncamping it will be announced right away and at LEAST one player who is still alive on the map will do thier best to get back and do something about it.
On a pub a good player SHOULD be able to spawncamp indefinately given the chance. In a scrim it is the fault of the team being camped if they let themselfs get spawncamped for long. Hence why many pubs don't nessicarly adopt cal rules when it comes to spawncamping. Many people are quite poor at the game and don't get many kills unless they can sit cloaked on a wall somewhere and bite people as they walk by. Spawncamping rules protect those people. Skilled players don't need that protection to compeat nor have fun. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
If the team doesn't have that much coordination, and the opponent has good player(s), they are going to lose anyways. The outcome will be the same: Getting owned.
See, the difference is that at least with spawn camping, you are ending the game QUICKER so you do not drag out a game that is already decided. By spawn-camping, you are actually HELPING to "end it" like a lot of people like to say. If you don't spawn camp, then fine, given their low skill/coordination they'll probably play out the rest of the game with either 1 or 0 res towers, with no one really able to do anything as the otehr team techs up and toys with them until victory JPs/Onos can be obtained. That's not fun either. That's kinda rude in fact.
I repeat: If a team oes NOT have the ability to at least make a coordinated effort to break a spawn camp, and the other tem has players good enough to spawn camp well, then that team should dissolve, and new teams formed.
Not being able to break spawn camping in pubs is a combination of a big dose of team-stackage/skill difference and a smaller dose of luck. In scrims, iluck plays an even lesser role I'd say.
to camp the losing team always was kinda lame... the co mode is pretty consequent here: ALL players can be camped <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
"legal, or illegal"?
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Legal
If a skulk gets into base and sits on the IP, no one really faults him, especially since he is probably killing the IP as he camps.
Marines spawncamping the hive just haven't protected their spawn well enough. Killing the aliens where they spawn just keeps those aliens from being elsewhere on the map, allowing the rest of the team to focus on res control or taking down a second hive.
If there is a spawn camper, talk with your teammates a bit, have a key bound to gestate for whichever chamber you have, and immediately upon spawning, gestate so the marine has to waste twice as much ammo killing you and have a teammate take him from behind.
The object that a team has to destroy is the same thing that causes the enemy to appear in the same room. When the enemy appears, the team has 2 options. Continue damaging the hive/ip and die to the enemy, or kill the enemy and continue winning. One of these makes intelligent sense.
I think the funniest part is when a skulk spawns and sits there like he is afk, and i kill him, then the same name immediately exclaims in mm1 "You jerks quit spawn camping" Then, "Omg WTH?!?"
Like he was too busy typing and complaining about it to actually play.
"legal, or illegal"?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Simply put, it's legal. If you run a server and don't want it, then install AMX Mod X and the <a href='http://www.amxmodx.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=7935&highlight=spawninvfun' target='_blank'>Spawninvul (v1.1) (Cheesy Peteza) plugin</a> and set the invul cvar to whatever you're comfortable with. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
1. Marines camping in hive location, killing skulks. provided that it is the start of the game, 0w0a. So it takes a long time to shoot down the hive if they do.
2.A (a few maybe) skulk in base spawn camping the ip
3. Marines mining up the whole hive.
or anymore, if there is.
BUT NOT:
a phase gate buffet. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
1. Provided they are there for some purpose, to attract attention, set up a phase, etc. If there's more than one, one should at least be knifing the hive.
2. Provided the skulks bite the ips inbetween marine spawns. If he's just waiting there, chomping twice on a marine spawning in, then waiting on the ceiling again, that's just wrong.
3. ...one gorge with spit'll take out the entire minecamp, so that's fine, as long as when the marines are done mining they shotty the hive down as well (they don't just sit and laugh as skulks try to do mission: impossible antics trying to get past the mines)
And phase gate buffets are perfectly fine, if not a little annoying. The fact that hand nades actually counter them is worth noting.
Deal is, we play an online game, where we do not know or care what anyone else thinks of us, its extremely funny the number of people who think we give a damn what they think about us killing them when they spawn.
cl_ondeathwhine 1
This is the type of spawn "camping" that I disgree with, as it serves no point save to boost someone's ego.
Honestly though, I rarely see this occur on a server unless
A) The server has Psychostats
B) The commander wants to kill the hive with electrified TF's
It's easy as a skulk to just look at the three marines attacking your brothers but not your hive and think that they only have the worst of intentions in mind. But I've been on the other side of the equation a number of times, and frequently it comes down to things like Ammo, how soon they'll need to reload before another skulk spawns, what other aliens are alive elsewhere on the map, and how long it will take for backup to arrive.
I think, in the end, it's just an unfortunate reprocussion on how the game is designed. The stated objective of the game is to remove the opponent's ability to spawn. Since the only way to accomplish this is to launch an attack at the location that, well... the other team spawns at, blood will necessarily be shed.
-Brackhar
A marine with a shotgun can partially reload, so that alleviates a bit, but the reload is still kinda slow.