Basic Changes From Porting Ns To Source
aeroripper
Join Date: 2005-02-25 Member: 42471NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
Join Date: 2005-02-25 Member: 42471NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
<span style='color:red'><span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>***UPDATED WITH NEW PICTURES <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->***</span></span>
This isn't another "Will NS be coming to source?" thread :-P
Basically i was thinking about what some of the basic changes to the game would happen in a port to the source engine. Figure this would be fun since everybody is afraid to talk about the eventual source version i guess :-/.
<b>Basic Engine Stuff:</b>
1) Havok Physics Engine - all movement of marines\aliens\projectiles etc are effected. Would marines and aliens all be given weight values along with the projectiles (such as grenades, spikes from OCs, bile bomb etc). Would models have to be re-worked to allow for ragdoll and ditch the pre-canned death animations? Gameplay changes might happen due to people being able to "realistically" throwing their weapons down or off walls to another teamate. The behavior of turrents would have to change due to them being able to be knocked over unless physics was disabled on them.
2) Water\Shader effects - Will the water textures from the hl1 version work in the new version or will completely new textures have to be made to incorporate the water shader effect. The "shinyness" shader or use of cubemaps i'd imagine could be relatively easy to implement to make monitors\floors reflect. Also would cubemaps work on the existing glass textures to make them more realistic looking as well?
<a href='http://www.imageshack.us' target='_blank'><img src='http://img232.echo.cx/img232/9398/hivearea4gl4gl.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /></a>
^^^
picture above could be similar to what hive areas could look like that have water (minus all the xen stuff, i just used it as a example for the kind of lighting and organic feel)
3) Shadows! Marines especially would have shadows against light sources with IMO would be very cool for atmosphere. Walking down a dark corridor with one light and shadows, combined with realistic facial responses would be very immersive. And don't forget the new non-crappy flashlight, you can even see the light rays on the 3rd person view like in hl2dm. Spotlights and better lighting would also accentuate this.
<a href='http://www.imageshack.us' target='_blank'><img src='http://img43.echo.cx/img43/3506/shadowman9gl.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /></a>
<a href='http://www.imageshack.us' target='_blank'><img src='http://img232.echo.cx/img232/6599/marinefaces3pz5gg.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /></a>
4) Use of soundscapes. These could be added throughout the levels to add enhanced ambience and realistic room reverb. Stuff like hearing some marines a ways away from you firing at aliens but it sounds more distant (like when a combine fires in the distance in hl2). Echoes, underwater sounds, ambient sounds etc.
<b>Sourcified Additions to come later</b>
5)Marine\Alien responses as in half-life2:DM. Such as when you walk up to a fellow marine his head will turn a little to aknowledge you then turn back. Updated marine models with blinking eyes (or perhaps being able to see their eyes behind their little monitor) . The coolest part of this would be the aliens. The eyes could be remodeled so they move independatly of the body and have a glowing effect or pupil as in the classic NS picture. Think of the icthoyosaur model in half-life2 or the vortiguant eyes. IMO this would be the best part of having NS on source.
<a href='http://www.imageshack.us' target='_blank'><img src='http://img232.echo.cx/img232/8953/newskulk4th.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /></a>
6)Use of the lip syncing\mouth movement technology. You could use this to make the 'rines mouth move when saying the pre-recorded taunts\speech. Aliens could be the same as well making their noises.
7)Greater detail in marine\alien models. Things like the "cable" could be added to say heavy armor on his back that jiggles around when he walks (think dog). Or even add a custom "jiggly vein" on the back on the fade model like it has now that moves around a little. Blood decals for when a marine is bite or a alien is shot at kind of like battle scars. I'm not sure if that would become inhernent to the models when made for the source engine but it would defintely be cool. As i said earlier maybe it would be possible to see the marines eyes through their helmet visor blinking and eyes moving and such. And a hologramish sprite over the visor with the marine hud.
<a href='http://www.imageshack.us' target='_blank'><img src='http://img232.echo.cx/img232/7460/newmarinefinal7ks.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /></a>
8)Enhanced special effects: Things like spores could have a similar effect when walked into like the smoke grenade in CS:S except with only a light fog with a green tint (light sources would also bounce off the fog as they do with the smoke grenade effect in CS:S). Steam, fog, fire etc could all look great in the new engine.
<a href='http://www.imageshack.us' target='_blank'><img src='http://img232.echo.cx/img232/1602/sporeeffect3wu.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /></a>
9) Better skyboxes. MUCH more detail can be added to existing maps when looking out windows, such as a lunar outpost and lunar landscape that appears to go on for miles into the skybox giving the feeling of being more isolated.
10) Improved VGUI system for commander mode could be implemented. Picture in picture, health bars\building specific information etc. Even HBO
<a href='http://www.imageshack.us' target='_blank'><img src='http://img243.echo.cx/img243/7850/newcomm0ru.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /></a>
11) Better level design: Small revisions could be added to maps to add more intracate world design. Such as touching up arcs over doors, rounded corners, glossyness on concrete or metal walls to give the illusion of moisture, and much better looking displacements in infestation zones. And more high res textures! Some people are already making higher quality versions:
<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=86672&hl=source' target='_blank'>http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index....86672&hl=source</a>
<a href='http://www.imageshack.us' target='_blank'><img src='http://img219.echo.cx/img219/9954/flrgreypnl2020gl.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /></a>
<a href='http://www.imageshack.us' target='_blank'><img src='http://img182.echo.cx/img182/8236/infesttest00009gt9tc.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /></a>
<a href='http://www.imageshack.us' target='_blank'><img src='http://img182.echo.cx/img182/6959/infest2er.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image' /></a>
<a href='http://www.imageshack.us' target='_blank'><img src='http://img219.echo.cx/img219/2614/labshoot5kd6zj.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /></a>
I understand to get all the other stuff they probably wanna put it we won't see all this stuff for at least another two years or more but we can dream right? Overall even the improved lighting, shadows, and physics could make this mod the best mod for half-life2 easily if it was just ported in its current form.
This isn't another "Will NS be coming to source?" thread :-P
Basically i was thinking about what some of the basic changes to the game would happen in a port to the source engine. Figure this would be fun since everybody is afraid to talk about the eventual source version i guess :-/.
<b>Basic Engine Stuff:</b>
1) Havok Physics Engine - all movement of marines\aliens\projectiles etc are effected. Would marines and aliens all be given weight values along with the projectiles (such as grenades, spikes from OCs, bile bomb etc). Would models have to be re-worked to allow for ragdoll and ditch the pre-canned death animations? Gameplay changes might happen due to people being able to "realistically" throwing their weapons down or off walls to another teamate. The behavior of turrents would have to change due to them being able to be knocked over unless physics was disabled on them.
2) Water\Shader effects - Will the water textures from the hl1 version work in the new version or will completely new textures have to be made to incorporate the water shader effect. The "shinyness" shader or use of cubemaps i'd imagine could be relatively easy to implement to make monitors\floors reflect. Also would cubemaps work on the existing glass textures to make them more realistic looking as well?
<a href='http://www.imageshack.us' target='_blank'><img src='http://img232.echo.cx/img232/9398/hivearea4gl4gl.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /></a>
^^^
picture above could be similar to what hive areas could look like that have water (minus all the xen stuff, i just used it as a example for the kind of lighting and organic feel)
3) Shadows! Marines especially would have shadows against light sources with IMO would be very cool for atmosphere. Walking down a dark corridor with one light and shadows, combined with realistic facial responses would be very immersive. And don't forget the new non-crappy flashlight, you can even see the light rays on the 3rd person view like in hl2dm. Spotlights and better lighting would also accentuate this.
<a href='http://www.imageshack.us' target='_blank'><img src='http://img43.echo.cx/img43/3506/shadowman9gl.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /></a>
<a href='http://www.imageshack.us' target='_blank'><img src='http://img232.echo.cx/img232/6599/marinefaces3pz5gg.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /></a>
4) Use of soundscapes. These could be added throughout the levels to add enhanced ambience and realistic room reverb. Stuff like hearing some marines a ways away from you firing at aliens but it sounds more distant (like when a combine fires in the distance in hl2). Echoes, underwater sounds, ambient sounds etc.
<b>Sourcified Additions to come later</b>
5)Marine\Alien responses as in half-life2:DM. Such as when you walk up to a fellow marine his head will turn a little to aknowledge you then turn back. Updated marine models with blinking eyes (or perhaps being able to see their eyes behind their little monitor) . The coolest part of this would be the aliens. The eyes could be remodeled so they move independatly of the body and have a glowing effect or pupil as in the classic NS picture. Think of the icthoyosaur model in half-life2 or the vortiguant eyes. IMO this would be the best part of having NS on source.
<a href='http://www.imageshack.us' target='_blank'><img src='http://img232.echo.cx/img232/8953/newskulk4th.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /></a>
6)Use of the lip syncing\mouth movement technology. You could use this to make the 'rines mouth move when saying the pre-recorded taunts\speech. Aliens could be the same as well making their noises.
7)Greater detail in marine\alien models. Things like the "cable" could be added to say heavy armor on his back that jiggles around when he walks (think dog). Or even add a custom "jiggly vein" on the back on the fade model like it has now that moves around a little. Blood decals for when a marine is bite or a alien is shot at kind of like battle scars. I'm not sure if that would become inhernent to the models when made for the source engine but it would defintely be cool. As i said earlier maybe it would be possible to see the marines eyes through their helmet visor blinking and eyes moving and such. And a hologramish sprite over the visor with the marine hud.
<a href='http://www.imageshack.us' target='_blank'><img src='http://img232.echo.cx/img232/7460/newmarinefinal7ks.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /></a>
8)Enhanced special effects: Things like spores could have a similar effect when walked into like the smoke grenade in CS:S except with only a light fog with a green tint (light sources would also bounce off the fog as they do with the smoke grenade effect in CS:S). Steam, fog, fire etc could all look great in the new engine.
<a href='http://www.imageshack.us' target='_blank'><img src='http://img232.echo.cx/img232/1602/sporeeffect3wu.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /></a>
9) Better skyboxes. MUCH more detail can be added to existing maps when looking out windows, such as a lunar outpost and lunar landscape that appears to go on for miles into the skybox giving the feeling of being more isolated.
10) Improved VGUI system for commander mode could be implemented. Picture in picture, health bars\building specific information etc. Even HBO
<a href='http://www.imageshack.us' target='_blank'><img src='http://img243.echo.cx/img243/7850/newcomm0ru.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /></a>
11) Better level design: Small revisions could be added to maps to add more intracate world design. Such as touching up arcs over doors, rounded corners, glossyness on concrete or metal walls to give the illusion of moisture, and much better looking displacements in infestation zones. And more high res textures! Some people are already making higher quality versions:
<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=86672&hl=source' target='_blank'>http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index....86672&hl=source</a>
<a href='http://www.imageshack.us' target='_blank'><img src='http://img219.echo.cx/img219/9954/flrgreypnl2020gl.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /></a>
<a href='http://www.imageshack.us' target='_blank'><img src='http://img182.echo.cx/img182/8236/infesttest00009gt9tc.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /></a>
<a href='http://www.imageshack.us' target='_blank'><img src='http://img182.echo.cx/img182/6959/infest2er.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image' /></a>
<a href='http://www.imageshack.us' target='_blank'><img src='http://img219.echo.cx/img219/2614/labshoot5kd6zj.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /></a>
I understand to get all the other stuff they probably wanna put it we won't see all this stuff for at least another two years or more but we can dream right? Overall even the improved lighting, shadows, and physics could make this mod the best mod for half-life2 easily if it was just ported in its current form.
Comments
Most likely we will be restricted to the same shadow types HL2 used though, meaning always facing one direction and not responding to light sources.
It took 6 months for a third skin to come out in cs:source (test version came out 2 weeks ago) - think of how long it would take to remodel 3 rines and 5 aliens.
Of course the current models could probably be used, but then it would look pretty crap.
Physics shouldn't be a problem and should even help improve issues like kick-back.
But I think the major problem is porting the code as NS seems to have a lot of HL workarounds that may not be compatible with source.
Most likely we will be restricted to the same shadow types HL2 used though, meaning always facing one direction and not responding to light sources. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well at least there will be directional shadows... i wasn't meaning the dynamic kind
those'll still be cool though
I think hl2dm code is unoptimized but they'll probably hafta do that.
r_shadows 1 doesn't work, why would they be put back in just because its on a different engine?
The list takes all my views on Source, maybe all the placables on the map need to be limited though in this game. Think about a skulk, how is it going to climb for example a moveable crate? And the lag that comes with them?
(EDIT: OUT OF TOPIC: Just a question: a long time ago, I saw an HL2 video, where they made G-Man speak in some odd language. They said that HL2 could automatically make the right mouthmovements for audio speech. Was that just a lie?)
No.
There is no such time \o/
Sarcasm-O-Meter just exploded and hurt me badly <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I'm just hoping the hitboxes can keep up with fast creatures like the skulk.
edit: Oh yes, and an Onos that doesnt suck would be nice too.
I dont rember where i heard this but
"NS is just the encounter"
"NS 2/S is the war"
I doubt there will be any major vehicles in NS:S. Though a few maps with a train or a lumbering personell carrier might be cool. =P
That would defeat the whole purpose behind NS, and pretty much the whole game would have to be redesigned.
In HL2: DM.. If a player ducks, You can shoot through thier head with out a bullet hitting..
In other words, its the HL2: DM with the same old problem the fades have now. Crouching Player, Hidden Hitbox.
before Valve does anything more, id much rather them fix thier hitboxes. FOR THE LOVE OF GOD
Doom 3 has better hitboxes..Which I think is sad.
NS:S = prettier version of what we have now.
NS2 = next chapter in the NS universe. This is going to be a retail product.
NS:S = prettier version of what we have now.
NS2 = next chapter in the NS universe. This is going to be a retail product. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
there always remains a few who just skim through it instead of reading...
As for the hitboxes, wouldn't it be possible to just make a custom hitbox for each alien\marine so it would move with them? Or does that only work for per-poly hitboxes? Or is it code as well?
If somebody get give a in-depth explanation of how hitboxes work that'd be awesome :-P
EDIT: Also doom3 has better hitboxes is because they use per-poly instead of the bounding boxes half-life(s) have
Aliens would need a slug to move the hive around.