Marines, With All Due Respect...
Chopper_Dave1
Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2353Members
Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2353Members
<div class="IPBDescription">STOP BEING IDIOTS</div> Ugh. You'd think the commander would help unify the marine team. I learned today, that is not always the case. Please keep the following in mind as you play as marines (this really should go without saying, but oh well):
1) <b>Your strategy is most likely NOT my strategy!</b>
You have no idea how many times I've been booted from the CC, only because llamas thought that if I didn't do exactly what they would do, I am a newbie and should be kicked. As much as you would like some turrets in the main base, I MAY NOT. Everyone else may do it, I DON'T CARE. I'll give you tripmines as a temporary defense to the main base, and save the main resources for the hive base which I plan to set up without the minute. Just because I use a little offense in my strategy at the very begginning rather than turtling up doesn't mean I suck. In every game where I have seen the marines turtle up, aliens win - hands down.
2) <b>If I order you somewhere, for the love of god, go there!</b>
If I wanted to claim a resource node, that I would ORDER you to go to a resource node. But in the beginning of the game, when skulks run rampant, I realize quite well that a resource extractor will probably be destroyed within seconds of being built (wasting resources). All the marines I play with, however, don't seem to recognize that. If I order you to go to a hive, most likely, there will be a resource node there, with the very nice added benefit of my setting up a base to defend it and denying the aliens a hive, all in one blow. If I have EVERYONE stopping whenever they see one offensive tower or one alien resource node, then the offensive power of a early-game hive raid is completely lost, and you will all most likely be a skulk snacks. Skulk snacks can't set up bases or kill aliens, so you aren't any good to me.
3) <b>Use your pistol in the beginning of the game, not your light machine gun.</b>
People completely underestimate the power of the pistol. Unless you have the aim of a deranged chimpanzee, chances are, you'll kill a skulk/gorge faster with the pistol than with the LMG. Rather than draining your LMG ammo and switching to pistol, drain your pistol then swicth to LMG. It'll keep you alive! Really!
4) <b>Be smart with your tripmines.</b>
I have seen way too many idiots using the tripmines I bought stupidly. If I give you tripmines, place them in preparation of a SKULK coming through the entrance. Than means place them in narrow doorways (in all possible heights of entrance), vents, and if possible, two at a time (two are generally needed to fry a skulk extra crispy). Please, PLEASE do not put them in wide corridors where only an elephant with rabies would possibly trigger them. That's just a waste of my money.
5) <b>YOU ARE NOT GOD!</b>
If I give you waypoints in groups, please, MOVE OUT IN GROUPS. A lone marine is a skulk snack. A lone marine trying to built an entire base is DOUBLY a skulk snack. If I tell only 1 person to built, and everyone else to guard the doorways and vents, ONE PERSON BUILD, AND EVERYONE ELSE GUARD A DOORWAY OR VENT. I don't bloody care how quickly the building finishes if you all build it at the same time, the buildings will be skulk food and a huge waste of resources if you all DIE!
Now imagine every one of those suggestions being broken, and you'll get an idea of my marine team last game. And when the aliens won early on because of their stupidity, they had the audicity to blame <i>me</i> for the loss. The commander can only do so much; he needs to rely on people to follow his orders and not be complete idiots to actually succeed. I just wish every marine in that server would have played a game like that as commander - then they might understand the importance of following orders.
...of course, they didn't, so I changed to aliens and rained fiery vengeance upon their llama souls. Sucked for them.
1) <b>Your strategy is most likely NOT my strategy!</b>
You have no idea how many times I've been booted from the CC, only because llamas thought that if I didn't do exactly what they would do, I am a newbie and should be kicked. As much as you would like some turrets in the main base, I MAY NOT. Everyone else may do it, I DON'T CARE. I'll give you tripmines as a temporary defense to the main base, and save the main resources for the hive base which I plan to set up without the minute. Just because I use a little offense in my strategy at the very begginning rather than turtling up doesn't mean I suck. In every game where I have seen the marines turtle up, aliens win - hands down.
2) <b>If I order you somewhere, for the love of god, go there!</b>
If I wanted to claim a resource node, that I would ORDER you to go to a resource node. But in the beginning of the game, when skulks run rampant, I realize quite well that a resource extractor will probably be destroyed within seconds of being built (wasting resources). All the marines I play with, however, don't seem to recognize that. If I order you to go to a hive, most likely, there will be a resource node there, with the very nice added benefit of my setting up a base to defend it and denying the aliens a hive, all in one blow. If I have EVERYONE stopping whenever they see one offensive tower or one alien resource node, then the offensive power of a early-game hive raid is completely lost, and you will all most likely be a skulk snacks. Skulk snacks can't set up bases or kill aliens, so you aren't any good to me.
3) <b>Use your pistol in the beginning of the game, not your light machine gun.</b>
People completely underestimate the power of the pistol. Unless you have the aim of a deranged chimpanzee, chances are, you'll kill a skulk/gorge faster with the pistol than with the LMG. Rather than draining your LMG ammo and switching to pistol, drain your pistol then swicth to LMG. It'll keep you alive! Really!
4) <b>Be smart with your tripmines.</b>
I have seen way too many idiots using the tripmines I bought stupidly. If I give you tripmines, place them in preparation of a SKULK coming through the entrance. Than means place them in narrow doorways (in all possible heights of entrance), vents, and if possible, two at a time (two are generally needed to fry a skulk extra crispy). Please, PLEASE do not put them in wide corridors where only an elephant with rabies would possibly trigger them. That's just a waste of my money.
5) <b>YOU ARE NOT GOD!</b>
If I give you waypoints in groups, please, MOVE OUT IN GROUPS. A lone marine is a skulk snack. A lone marine trying to built an entire base is DOUBLY a skulk snack. If I tell only 1 person to built, and everyone else to guard the doorways and vents, ONE PERSON BUILD, AND EVERYONE ELSE GUARD A DOORWAY OR VENT. I don't bloody care how quickly the building finishes if you all build it at the same time, the buildings will be skulk food and a huge waste of resources if you all DIE!
Now imagine every one of those suggestions being broken, and you'll get an idea of my marine team last game. And when the aliens won early on because of their stupidity, they had the audicity to blame <i>me</i> for the loss. The commander can only do so much; he needs to rely on people to follow his orders and not be complete idiots to actually succeed. I just wish every marine in that server would have played a game like that as commander - then they might understand the importance of following orders.
...of course, they didn't, so I changed to aliens and rained fiery vengeance upon their llama souls. Sucked for them.
Comments
I would like to add a twist to this statement, since it could very much apply to commanders as well. Commanders should listen to feedback from marines, however if they don't they should get booted. Having commander that will not admit to his mistakes or take in suggestions from others is just as bad as a marine that won't follow orders.
Note: This isn't a direct stab at you in anyway, just pointing out commanders don't neccsarily always have the best attitude or apporach to a situation. Its just more common to see marines making mistakes, since there more mariens then comms <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->3) Use your pistol in the beginning of the game, not your light machine gun.
People completely underestimate the power of the pistol. Unless you have the aim of a deranged chimpanzee, chances are, you'll kill a skulk/gorge faster with the pistol than with the LMG. Rather than draining your LMG ammo and switching to pistol, drain your pistol then swicth to LMG. It'll keep you alive! Really!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not everyone has good aim, its a fact. So the pistol is not better then the LMG as you describe it.
tonight I played on a well-organized marine team and we beat the tar out of the aliens.
next round, same map, I was aliens, and we got the tar beaten out of us be some well-organized marines.
Doesn't guarantee anything. Have you ever commanded a game where four marines enter a medium sized featureless cube of a room and all die to <b>one Skulk</b>.
Every game I have been a marine the commander has not given players tripmines or sent them to hive or anything, and we always lost <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
Er anyways what im trying to get across is I think you shuld also point these guidlines to the commanders out there, maybie then more would do things like give me tripmines or sending me places (or at least tell me where the good commanders play at <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->)
"3 o'clock. Just in time for - Chopper Dave!"
"You know captain, cable piracy is a crime"
"BABABABA! Chopper Dave's on!"
....
"You see, he's a chopper pilot by day, but a night, he fights crime... as a werewolf."
lol. Great cartoon.
And Dave, if you ever command me, I'll be a good little lackey.
And as our Crazed Monk friend said, I also agree with commanders listening to their marines. Listening to competent players, mind you, not the "I want a shotgun!" dopes that just want to play with a new toy. Communication -both- ways is key to keeping everyone informed.. the marines can't see all the commander can, and the commander can't see all the marines can. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
I'd be glad to have you as my commander in any game, Chopper Dave.
Pistol is indeed not the best weapon if you have shaky aim. If you feel you can nail that skulk with about 5 shots before he can bite you, then by all means, use the pistol. It packs more of a punch than the LMG.
Commanders really underestimate the power of tripmines in the beginnning; while they become mroe useless later on as the aliens get advanced tech (or evolutions, as it may be), they are invaluable in the early game. Skulks, gorges, and lerks can't detonate a tripmine from afar...they have to either suicide, or avoid them. You can buy around 4-5 packs of tripmines before reaching the cost of building a turret factory and a single turret, and you only need about 2 packs. They are obviously REALLY helpful for setting up a temporary base while trying to quickly grab a hive (or two, if the aliens are really disorganized).
Problem is, most players think "OMFG HE ISN'T BUILDING TURRETS OUR BASE IS DEFENSELESS HE'S SUCH A N00B," then kick me. Ah well.
Try to keep in mind that the early game is a race for resources for the aliens, and a race for a strong base for the marines. Skulks have the ability to easily access pretty much every resource node on the map via the vents, and marines don't. That means any resource node you set up wil be destroyed 10 seconds later by a skulk...not really a worthy investment. Marines, on the other hand, can't easily access all the resources and usually have a hard time eliminating them (whereupon the aliens build them right back up again). What marines DO have, if they work in groups, is the ability to quickly lock down an area with tripmines, turrets, warp gates, etc. As marines, you're racing to try to gain a foothold on an alien hive and keep it (remember, alien hive locations come with the added benefit of a resource node). Once one hive and perhaps a strategic room (i.e. the Mess Hall in NS_Nancy) has been secured, then I try to move to conquer the aliens' 2nd hive, if I haven't already. THEN, I finally try to get out and claim some resource nodes (at this point, skulks have far more to worry about than sabotauging a single resource...like that hive that is under siege). After I do that, marines win. There's really nothing more to it than that.
I really have to emphasize that marines need to ATTACK, ATTACK, ATTACK if they ever want to win the game. The gyst of most games now involve the aliens attacking, the marines defending, and the marines losing. For the marines to win, they have to try to gain the same rythmatic equilibrium of attack and defense that the aliens have. They don't do that unless they work in groups and have somewhat keen senses and a good shot.
Also, never, EVER underestimate the power of motion tracking in the beginning of the game...try to get it ASAP. It really, really helps keep those dastardly skulks from using those sneak attacks they love so much.
And I do listen to the marines when I'm playing, though I have enough knowledge of both alien and marine tactics to know what to do and what not to do in the early game. Most of my listening comes later, when we have a nice hive base set up and the marines know that they'll need HMG's or grenade launchers or siege cannons or something of that sort to take down a base. But seriously, don't try to turn the tables of command on me early on. I'll get very, very angry.
Yeah, like I said not a stab at you. I've just met some extremely control-freak type commanders.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Problem is, most players think "OMFG HE ISN'T BUILDING TURRETS OUR BASE IS DEFENSELESS HE'S SUCH A N00B," then kick me. Ah well.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is funny, cause I've actaully had a game where by the time the base was "adequately" defended with turrets, the aliens had already got 3 hives. Happened earlier in the release, but nevertheless brings back found memories of the Ono massacre that followed <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
"3 o'clock. Just in time for - Chopper Dave!"
"You know captain, cable piracy is a crime"
"BABABABA! Chopper Dave's on!"
....
"You see, he's a chopper pilot by day, but a night, he fights crime... as a werewolf."
lol. Great cartoon.
And Dave, if you ever command me, I'll be a good little lackey.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
LOL <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> Sealab 2021 is the best show on Adult Swim in my opinion...
But if Im at an open Hive and he refused to build up.. then I get worried.
I try to look out for my buddies, I cover them when we build and try and be a good marine! I need some more practice with the placement of mines but thats all in due time.
Excellent post, but as a corollary: You are not God, unless you're coil. Then it's cool.
Great post Dave, every marine should listen it. I think it can be summed up as: Obey your commander or else.
Unless your comm is a *total* noob and starts spamming CCs in your spawn, like what happened in a game I was in once.
>
thats what i say
And yeh there is still a problem with public play on NS servers , people will PO others doesnt matter where u are , just find a good server that has admins on it alot of the time and games seem much better quility, or find a clan with a server that has a password on it, means NO llamas come on just looking to make the game harder for there team.
Just a wee note about playing as commander, if they have 3 hives your going to die , if you have 2 guys in a hive then they can keep it safe untill you get the RP's , also Tripmines are probs the best weapons in the game to stop that skulk rush at the start of games , place them around the CC and you wont die!
<edit>
"btw, sometimes marines know more than their commander,respect their view abit " sorry about no quote thing ,but that is 100% true
<edit>
Second, if people don't listen to you or boot you out of comm seat, it's probably you're
own fault (which after reading your first post I can well understand). I have played this
tactic many times and most of the time if there's a good comm (not me) everyone listens.
Anyway, here's my typical set of actions as a marine:
#1 wait for the skulk rush, optionally building spawn points (10-20 seconds) [typically die charging one or more of the skulks]
#2 what I do next is conditional:
- if I am given orders, then I will head to where I think the waypoint is like a good marine <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->.
- if the skulks are still charging, then I'll wait in base to build defences/shoot the suckers.
- if someone shouts 'follow me', then I will back them up (typically they head for a strategic point, or a hive).
- otherwise, I tend to go to the nearest resource node and camp it, awaiting orders.
Things that make me like commanders:
#1 If there is a 'master plan', then let the grunts know. Standing around a resource node on the wrong side of the map waiting to be eaten isn't fun. If you want to take 2 hives first, then tell us that.
#2 Try not to leave someone in one place for too long. Guarding a resource node in the middle of nowhere can get a bit boring.
#3 Give people 'reasonable tools'. Personally, I don't mind having a LMG+basic armour when going into combat [my shooting sucks - damn mouse] and I make a nice decoy, *but* if I am guarding a base/hive/node then I absolutely love to have a welder.
#4 The motion sensor is *very* important.
#5 Learn to say 'no' to your marines.
#6 Try not to switch waypoints randomly! Arggghhh! Build this, build that 48 metres behind you, build this behind you... "huh?" *chomp, chomp*.
#7 Don't bother taking out defended structures early on. It's very slow, very dangerous and doesn't seem to actually achieve anything. I can't help feeling that our time would be better spent defending/securing an undefended location.
---
Another random point that I discovered recently:
- some hives make a crap base.
I loved the idea of moving our base to the hive, but in practice there was very little room and it was totally indefensible <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->.
---
[I am fairly new to the game, and probably have it all wrong, but that is my opinion]
btw: is there any way to help a commander stay in the command seat? I can vote to remove them, but I don't think I can vote to keep a good one?
But yeah, I think that getting people to listen to you is part of being a commander in many situations. Sure, it'd be nice if you could always play with competant players who know that organization is very important and try to complete team objectives, but we all know that isn't going to happen. I usually try to find one or two marines that seem to be competant and delegate important orders to them. The rest I try to basically herd using ammo stations and phase gates to direct their actions.
But yeah, sometimes none of it works. Sometimes none of the marines listen to you when a very important station is under attack, they run off and waste all your mines, they demand that you build things which they obviously can't hold, and they're suprised that after not defending and obtaining resource nodes you don't have the resources for a "gl and ha at spawn plz", so they wait in the spawn for one to eventually show up. That's rough, but with a team like that you probably don't really deserve to win, even if you are an excellent commander. After all, there's only so much you can do.
1) <b>Your strategy is most likely NOT my strategy!</b>
You have no idea how many times I've been booted from the CC, only because llamas thought that if I didn't do exactly what they would do, I am a newbie and should be kicked. As much as you would like some turrets in the main base, I MAY NOT. Everyone else may do it, I DON'T CARE. I'll give you tripmines as a temporary defense to the main base, and save the main resources for the hive base which I plan to set up without the minute. Just because I use a little offense in my strategy at the very begginning rather than turtling up doesn't mean I suck. In every game where I have seen the marines turtle up, aliens win - hands down.
<b> well chopper dave.. heres a fellow commander that knows how u feel... i join in the middle of a game.. where the aliens have all three hives all built up and heavily defended... and almost all the resource towers.... well i immedeatly boot the n00b and use all resources to make more resources.... thankgod there were two taht were open in the same area... forgot wut map <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> ... nywayz... well while the aliens were that GOOD.. my team had 3 sentry turrets... a normal armor.. 2 spawn points.. AND ONE DAM RESOURCE TOWER! OMG! ... so i used all resources to build up defence and resource towers... well.... they flame me for being a n00b and not giving them HA and HMGs... and the vote me out and flame me for their loss... WUT A BUNCH OF n00b llamas..-_-" .... the second round was even funnier.. my friend and i wanted to be CO.. and they refused to let me.... and i was already "banned from the CC" and tey wouldn't give my friend a chance cuz they thot he sucked too... we're both quite a bit above average.... well they let some other guy ... WUT A N00b! HE SOLD OUR FIRST RESOURCE towers.. and so instead of making spawns first.. he made an armory.. smart .. N00b... half my team excluding my friend and i got kiled by the much accustomed SKULK rush... and so it was basicalyl my friend and i saving them buy building the spawn point.. from then on we had to wait i think 10 minutes before we got 22 resource points to make a new resource tower.. while the aliens were bascially THRIVING.... n00bs.. i hate them...</b>
4) <b>Be smart with your tripmines.</b>
I have seen way too many idiots using the tripmines I bought stupidly. If I give you tripmines, place them in preparation of a SKULK coming through the entrance. Than means place them in narrow doorways (in all possible heights of entrance), vents, and if possible, two at a time (two are generally needed to fry a skulk extra crispy). Please, PLEASE do not put them in wide corridors where only an elephant with rabies would possibly trigger them. That's just a waste of my money.
<b> ALL I CAN SAY IS LOL!! hahah ELEPHANT WIF RABIES!? where do u think of all that? haha</b>
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i posted within his msg...
#2 Try not to leave someone in one place for too long. Guarding a resource node in the middle of nowhere can get a bit boring.
#3 Give people 'reasonable tools'. Personally, I don't mind having a LMG+basic armour when going into combat [my shooting sucks - damn mouse] and I make a nice decoy, *but* if I am guarding a base/hive/node then I absolutely love to have a welder.
#4 The motion sensor is *very* important.
#5 Learn to say 'no' to your marines.
#6 Try not to switch waypoints randomly! Arggghhh! Build this, build that 48 metres behind you, build this behind you... "huh?" *chomp, chomp*.
#7 Don't bother taking out defended structures early on. It's very slow, very dangerous and doesn't seem to actually achieve anything. I can't help feeling that our time would be better spent defending/securing an undefended location.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
These are some really good points dumbo, especially number 1, all of you good commanders out there, it would be very, very helpful to know what you generally want to accomplish right off the bat, this way people like me will do things like go to a hive or something without you having to move us around like pawns which i know gets a little tedious. I know if a commander said "First i want to take the _____ hive, then i want to fortify it, then capture resource points" then i would do my best to kind of organize the team and get them all to come with me to the hive
(by the way, how do you get the orignal posters name when you put quote in? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> )
when your holding a position in a longish hallway, use your pistol first because it does good damage and the bullets are 100% on target
when you pistol get low, switch quickly to the LMG and fire away until its dead
if you use your LMG first you will run out of ammo because its very inaccurate at longer range. Works well against fades, gorges also
Then, when the marines didn't pay attention, telling me "Less talk more buildings," I continually spammed "We need a hive, go to your waypoints!" and "I don't care about resources, and I don't care if you see an alien resource tower! Go to your waypoints!" which turned to my saying "WE NEED A HIVE GO TO YOUR WAYPOINT" and "I DON'T WANT TO DEFEND THE MARINE BASE I WANT TO TAKE AND DEFEND A HIVE" etc, all in caps locks because I thought the larger font might attract their dumb eyes a little more than my binds apparently had. They, didn't listen at all, and blamed me for the loss. When I told them we lost because of their abysmal ability to recognize my strategy and follow orders, they told me I was giving bad orders.
*sigh*
Well, I'm off to play another game. Let's see if marine IQ has advanced beyond that of a deathmatcher.