How To Counter Heavy Trains

mirrodin · April 2005

One word: Teamwork. One Compoundword...What ever...

Basically everyone has to work together, in friendly fire games (my favourite) the skulks will either cause lots of damage.

Case 1: Gun happy marines.
They shoot the skulk, and hit their friends, alot, unless the skulk sucks.

Case 2: DONT SHOOT BOB!
They hesitate to open up because they do not want to kill their friend, Bob. Use this time to move around and munch them. If you die, even the most disciplined marines will continue firing for a little bit longer, hopfully hitting their friend. Nothing like 'nade spam to brighten a skulks day.

c4t · April 2005

well the best way to counter heavies at 1 hive is to have all of your team, probably 6 or 10 people all go gorge on top of a hive that has an mc or two on it, all get adren. they all heal the hive for as long as possible.

theclam · April 2005

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (c4t @ Apr 5 2005, 01:08 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> well the best way to counter heavies at 1 hive is to have all of your team, probably 6 or 10 people all go gorge on top of a hive that has an mc or two on it, all get adren. they all heal the hive for as long as possible.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
You'll bore them to death.

im_lost · April 2005

No matter how many gorges you get, 22 sieges will take a hive from 100% to 0% instantly, assuming they don't simply wipe it out with shotguns.

SLizer · April 2005

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (im lost @ Apr 5 2005, 02:10 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> No matter how many gorges you get, 22 sieges will take a hive from 100% to 0% instantly, assuming they don't simply wipe it out with shotguns.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
Lemme see 22 SIEGES <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/siege.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='siege.gif' /> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/siege.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='siege.gif' /> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/siege.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='siege.gif' />

DC_Darkling · April 2005

*gets out excel sheet*

I made a sheet once calculating turret + siege dmg versus one hive. (no chambers or gorges in yet, gorge values are hard to calculate damnit)

22 sieges is the only number downing hives in less then a second and has 258 dmg to spare.

and if anyone wonders, without shooting the hive, or healing of any sort, 4 normal sieges tacke 20 seconds to down it, continues fire.

I will upload the sheet once, since its 3.F calculated. Now I only hope I figure gorge healspray values out before I do. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' />

SLizer · April 2005

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DC Darkling @ Apr 5 2005, 07:56 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
I will upload the sheet once, since its 3.F calculated. Now I only hope I figure gorge healspray values out before I do. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' />  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
Better get em right or <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif' /> PWN <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' />

SDJason · April 2005

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SLizer @ Apr 5 2005, 06:04 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (im lost @ Apr 5 2005, 02:10 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> No matter how many gorges you get, 22 sieges will take a hive from 100% to 0% instantly, assuming they don't simply wipe it out with shotguns. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Lemme see 22 SIEGES <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/siege.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='siege.gif' /> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/siege.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='siege.gif' /> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/siege.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='siege.gif' />  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
Siege Map???

DC_Darkling · April 2005

I still can't do the gorge thing..

Ok.. if anyone can help, be great.
I need:

the number of energy
adrenaline increase
healspray energy use
healspray ROF
energy restore rate

Some I have, but still. I have the next, if I know what it all means, no.

#define kHealingSprayBuildableScalar 5
unknown
#define kHealingSprayDamage 13
dmg spray does
#define kHealingSprayPlayerPercent 4
I think this states it heals 4
#define kHealingSprayEnergyCost 0.15
ah, a 0.15 cost of energy
#define kHealingSprayROF 1.60
ROF

#define kAdrenalineEnergyPercentPerLevel 0.33
adren increase per lvl
#define kAlienEnergyRate 0.08
energy restore rate

Main point I do not know is the number needed for full energy. I think 1, but then it simple does not add up. unless it means that with adren, energyrate is canceled. All kinda hard to calculate in.

Nadagast · April 2005

If you're next to a movement chamber you don't need adrenaline to healspray forever as Gorge.

the_x5 · April 2005

I could give you a detailed 5 page paper on methods and strategies to counter HA trains but since I don't have that much time and no one here will care to read all of that, here is my 2 cents:

First, I'm going to assume they have gotten to an HA train situation because you (as a team) have <span style='color:red'>failed</span> to grab enough resources for your team and <span style='color:red'>failed</span> to deny the enemy access to resources.
Emphasis:
<b>The best way to counter a Heavy Armor train is to not allow it to happen in the first place.</b>

So with that in mind let's say you have failed and now they have HA, let's also say the marines haven't locked down two of your hives and brought the server to its knees with extreme turret framing. One of your first priorities for aliens when you begin the game should be to get that second hive up ASAP. Obviously this means you'll have to get resources, but I see all too often people who want to spend their res on going fade instead of getting up a hive. If you are the first with enough res, go drop the hive quickly and then go back to killing. Remember the well know quote that necessity is the mother of invention and remember that Natural-Selection is a <i>highly</i> team oriented game. At this point you will have to used superb communication and teamwork to set up ambushes and use what you have available. The lack of teamwork is usually why HA trains seem unstoppable on pubs. One good method is to attack with everyone on the aliens team, aliens fully untied will outnumber the marines. And usually the time to counter the HA train is before the train is large and everyone in it has HA. A good strategy is to set up an ambush. Have the fades harass the marines to slow them down while you get all of the skulks, gorges, and an onos preferably in one area the skulks go on the ceiling and the onos is waiting around the corner with the gorges behind them. When the skulks lead the attack being the pawns that weaken, confuse, and use up the enemies clips a second or two after the skulks begin their assault then the onos and fades move in the gorges fire bile bombs into the fray. This actually usually works well even with lvl 3 weapons and lvl 3 armor. Bile bombs are crucial as the united full team ambush. (I'm assuming the gorges have adrenaline if you have MCs, as it is the most prudent movement upgrade for gorges) With nay luck your defeating victory will have the marines reeling for resources giving you time to press the offensive. Most public commanders are not experienced enough to know to have more than one IP in which case you will also be buying time. Notice I didn't talk about lerks. Spore is useless against HA, try to bite and you get shot out of the air before you can say hello. Lerks would need primal scream. Umbra wouldn't hurt, but lerks just die so easily against lvl 3 or lvl 2 HMGs.

im_lost · April 2005

How is bile bomb crucial? Last time I checked, it doesn't affect marines, period. If you are attacking them before they are setting up a siege base, there won't be any structures to damage.

YolkFolk · April 2005

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (im lost @ Apr 8 2005, 12:20 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> How is bile bomb crucial? Last time I checked, it doesn't affect marines, period. If you are attacking them before they are setting up a siege base, there won't be any structures to damage.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
I'd like to hear this too x5. Let's hope that 5 page paper didnt rely on the bile-bombs <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' />

MistenTH · April 2005

Maybe the bile splatter obscures the marines' visors, reducing their visibility and thus aim.

Or perhaps it makes them go OMG LOL THEY ARE BILING US and take out their knives to knife the stupid gorges...And get raped by the fades and onos.

c4t · April 2005

you can also parasite them to death like they do in the pro randoms. that **** be leet.

DC_Darkling · April 2005

does anyone still have the link to that movie? <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' />

Cj_the_Dj · April 2005

with 3 hives, you don't need to worry about HA train.

SLizer · April 2005

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DC Darkling @ Apr 8 2005, 03:31 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> does anyone still have the link to that movie? <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' />  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
I could send it to you

DC_Darkling · April 2005

if its not to big, why not.
clandarkmul@home.nl (can take alot cause its hardly mailed to)

monk3y · April 2005

how to counter HA trains.. okay here it is.. this usually works with movements.. just get celerity and tell your skulks to keep rushing them.. this forces the HA's to waste their precious Hmg ammo on the skulks.. just keep rushing them cuz eventually they'll have to reload. As skulks just keep rushing them, your making them waste their bulelts, it has been done. There were was a two hive down lockdown in Ns_caged, and most of us were skulks and a bunch of heavies with hmgs welded into ventilation. so i told everyone to keep rushing them.. the heavies at first blasted through every single skulk but we kept a constant stream of skulks in their, our spawn time outweighed the time they needed to reload thus, we beat the crap outta them. later on they came wit jps and naded us into the hive in the sky. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' />

im_lost · April 2005

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (monk3y @ Apr 10 2005, 06:23 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> how to counter HA trains.. okay here it is.. this usually works with movements.. just get celerity and tell your skulks to keep rushing them.. this forces the HA's to waste their precious Hmg ammo on the skulks.. just keep rushing them cuz eventually they'll have to reload. As skulks just keep rushing them, your making them waste their bulelts, it has been done. There were was a two hive down lockdown in Ns_caged, and most of us were skulks and a bunch of heavies with hmgs welded into ventilation. so i told everyone to keep rushing them.. the heavies at first blasted through every single skulk but we kept a constant stream of skulks in their, our spawn time outweighed the time they needed to reload thus, we beat the crap outta them. later on they came wit jps and naded us into the hive in the sky. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' />  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
That's right, give them enough res back to pay for all the equipment they are losing. That's really productive.

monk3y · April 2005

hey.. its the end game.. the marines are suppose to win..
either way the aliens were screwd in the end so why not do suicide rush? the effort still counts.. anyways, we were doin it out of fun and it feld good to tell the comm that a bunch of upgraded heavies got beat by a pack of skulks! i'll never forget that event. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' />

NukeAJS · April 2005

The only counter with one hive is to hit their base and pray they beacon so you can take out the nearest phase gate.

Even then you still lose.

Heyman · April 2005

The best thing to do is to hit them from all sides and have a skulk chomp down on their PG if they're holed up. After the Pg's down, take out the TF and it's game over for the heavies if there's at least one higher life-form than lerk.

How To Counter Heavy Trains

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