Dont Need Turret Limit
GreyPaws
Join Date: 2002-11-15 Member: 8659Members
Join Date: 2002-11-15 Member: 8659Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Because of Blink</div> Its pretty obvious, turret limits are not needed because of the blink ability of fades. You can Blink past any ammount of turrets to attack a factory or the CC or the Inf Portal, or any number of things, and if you think marines can just spam the floor with 50 turrets youre wrong. 19 resources per turret if you let the marines get that many resource nodes your gunna lose anyway
Comments
It's incredibly easy to get the resources to place so many turrets.
If Marines can place as many turrets as they want, then why nerf the Aliens? If the Marines can have wave after wave of lame in place, why prevent the Aliens from having "walls of lame"?
You get Marines, eventually, holed up in their first base, with one resource tower, with 30 turrets, placing more as the resources become available.
No matter how many resource towers the Aliens have, Marines can do that, because after the initial skulk rush, nothing happens there, because people on pubs don't have the common sense enough to continue attacking to prevent the Marines from getting an additional resource tower and starting to save resources.
Like I mentioned if you let the marines get enough resources to build 20 turrets in one place (19x20=380) plus the cost of the factory if they have enough spare resource to do this you lost anyway.
it would be nice if Blinking actually worked first... thank you come again...
now try and do a comeback as alien when humans have secured hive 3 and 2... <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo-->
Oh yeah mind telling me why a single marine with a HMG can take out an entire Hive's defenses without getting below 1/2 health and no medpacks? Or how a lightly armored Marine in a vent can be bitten 10 times DIRECTLY by 2 Skulks and still live? Or maybe somone can explain to me why Marine turrets can actually hit something, where as for Alien towers it takes a good 5-10 seconds before they hit a target.
Do Aliens have it easy? Against a team of Marines who think Blink actually works, yes.
Heheh (sneezes) good stuff!!
Turrets = more resources, dependant on one building, take away resources from your own team, smaller in size
Offense chambers = less resources, bigger in size, get auto healing from defense chambers, able to stack on each other
Having a limit on turrets would just really make turrets a lot more weaker than they are.
put movement chambers by them.. they shoot faster ;p
<!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::onos::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tiny.gif'><!--endemo--> DIEEE ONOS!!
oh.. and meoncrack.. 2-3 turrect factories would do the trick ;p
if u mass turrets around 3 factories, by the time like 2 onos destroy 2 of them they are dead..
then the marines just go back and build more.....
unless.. the commander is an idiot and build turrets only on one side of the factory and a fade or something goes on the other side and crouches.. but thats another topic..
Check <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=1&t=11487' target='_blank'>here</a> for Acrobad's explanation of why turret limits are necesasary.
<!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Of course if Marines had a turret limit too, it would actually force them to use skill and strategy rather then making as many turrets as possible. Which would be good for Marines as well, no more n00b commanders spending all the resources on turrets when you <b>really</b> need that medpack.
This is NOT true. Please do not spread rumors.
and what about when the marines set up a field of lame all over a hive, preventing the aliens from getting both bile bomb and xenocide?
sorry, fixing bile and xeno is not a full solution, it just shortens the endgame, without any approptiate fix to the midgame (which is the important part)
If the marines take a hive and hold it - AND enough resource nodes - to put up a substantial turret defense in it, then the aliens are playing poorly and are probably on their way to losing. An agressive, efficient, and *skillful* commander will be spending the majority of his resources on upgrades and weaponry, and will be depending on his team and phase gates to keep hives secure.
The turret farms that you see in this thread and others like it have two things in common:
1) They are in the marine base.
2) They are in a game in which the aliens have 3 hives, and marine expansion has failed.
These additional elements also come into play:
1) All the marines are localized in base, because when they leave they are slaughtered. Thus, they add to the defense.
2) Having all your marines in one place, supported by a nest of turrets, means they don't die much. Low resource expense on re-equipping marines = more resources for turrets.
3) Having all your marines, not dying, means 2 or 3 welders can keep the turret forest in good repair (except against something like bile bomb).
4) I would wager the marines were mostly un-upgraded; no upgrade = more resources for turrets.
ALL of these will be solved by bile bomb. Marines will be killed by the splash, turrets will be ripped apart by it, and the barrage will be too constant for welders to keep up.
In the event that the marines ARE expanding, they will be dying more often - thus, they will require re-equipment, which costs RPs. They will last longer if the commander upgrades their weapons and armor and equips them with heavy armor or jetpacks, which costs RPs. They will be guarding multiple expansions, which will each require turrets and support buildings (phase gate, perhaps an armory, perhaps a backup CC and IP), which cost RPs. All these additional expenses incurred by an active marine team prevent them from stockpiling the resources for true turret farming... and if they *do* have the resources, then they're dominating the map and have every right to be building that much.
If they're turtling in base and spamming turrets just to prolong the game, the corrected bile bomb and Xenocide will make short work of them.
If you already have two hives, and the marines turreted up the third one, then just replace the onos with a buncha skulks and have them maul the turrets, this time the lerks just umbra and help skulks take out the turrets, and fades go after the marines.
I think you guys are just annoyed because you can't take out a turreted base alone. Thing is, you shouldn't be able to. Turrets are just fine the way they are. There's no need to limit them.
1: you have a good commander
2: the players follow his orders ever time they really dont need to be good players just know how the game works and ns for a rts game is not hard to follow.
you can get 5 nozzles fast and the turret spam take ahive and win you need only take one hive and the game is over you can take any hive you want sometimes you get noobs on the <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> so they lose <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
someone ban this newbie, blink to the turret factory.
Then what?
YOU DIE
OMG OMG YOU LACK COMMON SENSE!!!!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
dont you love lazy morons that just read the first and last post in a thread?
This is NOT true. Please do not spread rumors.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
wow.. this isnt true??
When i am gorge i find they shoot faster, sorry bout that..
...
and MeOnCrack.. i know about using umbra and fades and gorges behind to build defense chambers for them to come back to and get health BUT..
sometimes when resources arent too high.. or u only got 2 hives and they mass turreted the 3rd hive... its really hard to get the job done.. and YES! I know it CAN be done.. BUT!! spending like an hour or two trying to win..
and yeah.. u can be fade and blink past turrets and try and go for CC but a good commander will prevent that
a) build turrets around it
b) build a second CC
...
ALSO.. i think max sieges should be put in place...
i just played a game.. they went just outside our base w/ 6 guys (all HA and HMG)
built mass turrets and topped it off with about 10 sieges
Destroyed all our offense chambers and defense chambers and just strolled in and killed one of our hives <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
...
ALSO.. i think max sieges should be put in place...
i just played a game.. they went just outside our base w/ 6 guys (all HA and HMG)
built mass turrets and topped it off with about 10 sieges
Destroyed all our offense chambers and defense chambers and just strolled in and killed one of our hives <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Umm.. hehe isnt that what they supposed to do? take more resource nodes next time and it will be good
maybe sieges only allowed at base or something? i dunno..
<!--emo&::siege::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/siege.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='siege.gif'><!--endemo--> < blah
[edit] ALSO!! I hate the damn shaking of the when like 10 sieges are shooting...
/me pats his 400mhz
(yes i know its time for a new computer.. getting one soon..)
[/edit]
1. Prevent aliens from setting up a bunch of crap close to the marine base, thus negating quick hit and runs, as they'll need to regen instead of just get healed.
2. Killing a hive and it's base, by placing a seige close as an offensive turret.
3. Making a spot hard to get through for aliens because of a "wall of lame" which even 5 seiges can't take down.
Even with these, aliens still can do great, they have great potential, even with bile bomb and xeno bugged. Lately, after marines learned they pretty much need seige to win, especially in longer games, things have been half and half with wins. Right after the patch, aliens cleaned up, because they knew the tactics, and marines didn't. Now aliens are still crying because marines have gotten smarter, because of the stress they were put under from the constant alien wins.
Alien OCs are GREAT if used properly. You can't expect to put 10 at the end of a hallway and have them kill things. Marines don't even do that... You build them where they can get suprise on the enemy, and deal dmg in close, not from down a hallway. Bast is a great example of this.
The rotating door is always covered on the other side by a wall of DCs and OCs by aliens. Once this happens, marines get 2 or 3 seiges up but they'll never come close to killing those chambers, it just makes that area no use for aliens to use, which helps marines a little. Even without webbing on the door, marines will get slaughtered CONSTANTLY by those chambers, even with ha and hmgs, that's just how the OCs and DCs need to be used. Where the marines first come face to face with them, they're up close and personal with them, unable to advance and then get killed. It works wonders, and good gorges know this. I can't tell you how many times 1 single gorge has shut off a hive from marines who DON'T have a seige. Even with seige, it's no easy task to break into the hive room, especially with fades and lerks always attacking you.
Every weapon, as it is now, works perfectly (cept for actual bugged things like bilebomb and xeno). The limits that are in place are there for reasons and there are reasons there AREN'T limits on some things. Like coil said, marines can't build a million turrets without sacrificing expansions, taking over a hive, leaving their main base empty, no ha, no upgrades, etc... Aliens don't seem to have a problem like this, it's just most commanders I've seen seem to prefer the easy and tried and tru route of a bunch of turrets instead of relying on marines to do the defensive work. When they do though, it makes for an interesting game, where resource nodes change hands every few minutes, and base assaults can be LARGE with very powerful guns and armor, and aliens then have a huge problem if they're too busy building a million OCs themselves...
The game is balanced, you just need to find a good pub server where people know how to play (try my clan's, info is in my sig). We're there always, at least three of us, sometimes all 16 spots are filled from us, just depends, and we play long fun games. Stop by, we try to help as well...
Of course if Marines had a turret limit too, it would actually force them to use skill and strategy rather then making as many turrets as possible. Which would be good for Marines as well, no more n00b commanders spending all the resources on turrets when you <b>really</b> need that medpack.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
oc cannon idea isnt dumb, imagine aliens filling a room top to bottom (remember, you can stack an entire STAIRWAY of offense chambers on top of each other!! <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo-->)
now, a marine walks in......................and 50 offensive chambers fire. He would be dead........
and by the time they could try to nade all those chambers, defenses could come and take out a guy with nade.
If you play alien so often you should know that blink nearly never works and especially not if you try to blink thorugh a field of turrets.
someone ban this newbie, blink to the turret factory.
Then what?
YOU DIE
OMG OMG YOU LACK COMMON SENSE!!!!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You should read your own QUOTE before you say stuff like that.