Issues

sundancesundance Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2322Members Posts: 7
Was just wondering when NS will include a team balence function. Getting tired of 9v7/10v5/9v3 etcetcetc teams in favour of marines. Would also be nice if somewhere you put 'aliens own, try them 1st' as I would also like to try marines out 1 day confused.gif

If you really dont have a clue how to do this why not just give the CS team a ring? Im sure you'v played CS and seen the auto team balence next round function? Why not develope something similiar where if the teams go 6v4, kick someone over to the other team. ATM, team unbalence must be the single most ****up in this game right now

Comments

  • TyphonTyphon Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 1899Members Posts: 1,597
    In CS the teams are similar enough that it really doesn't matter which side you play on. In NS it does. Some people really prefer one side over another, and would likely just quit if they got switched, which doesn't solve the problem at all.

    Plus, in my experience, 9v7 (MvA) is about the right ratio to have an even match considering the 'skill' of most marines.
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  • wlibaerswlibaers Join Date: 2002-11-15 Member: 8685Members Posts: 552
    That does happen, after one side wins everyone goes back to the ready room and then you can't get a difference bigger than 2. Of course, NS battles tend to last much longer than CS battles unless you get lucky with a rush, so there is much more time to lose the balance. Was playing 6vs2 last night, and none of the marines wanted to switch. I can understand they grew attached to their team, after all it was a very good fight until more than half the alien team quit, but it's just not fun anymore when you can't even defend all hives against 5 heavies. After asking repeatedly to balance things, I quit too.
  • SnappleSSnappleS Join Date: 2002-11-17 Member: 9073Members Posts: 93
    if the teams are unfair by any more then a 3-player advantage, the 'force' team portal should only be available in the ready room.
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  • sundancesundance Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2322Members Posts: 7
    edited November 2002
    To be honest, if you think 9v7 teams are about right then you arnt playing with very skilled players, I dont at all mean this as an insult but as people become more skilled you will see the difference it makes.

    I also don't think it matters if somone likes playing one side over another, tuff ****, the aliens/players arnt joining a server and playing for you just to lose.

    What it comes down to at the end of the day is that the teams should be balenced, we all know that, theres no argument that can suggest otherwise, so the sooner they sort it the better.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • xioutlawixxioutlawix Join Date: 2002-11-05 Member: 7118Members, Constellation Posts: 646
    Sorry sundance, I kinda agree with the previous posters.
    Once you've gone an entire game as marine and done your best and are about to clinch it, the last thing you wanna do is switch over to alien just to hear the "you lose" music 5 minutes later.
    I think the flow of the game is natural right now. People don't start leaving the game until they're pretty sure their side is going to lose, at which point people switching from one team to the other isn't going to help that much. GG, accept it.

    Teams should start out balanced and should remain so for a good portion of it. When the game is nearly over and one side has a pretty secure victory on their hands, the imbalance always occurs because some players end up leaving, such is life.
  • RedmonkeyRedmonkey Join Date: 2002-11-10 Member: 8052Members Posts: 51
    What I see a lot is 9vs7 and 10vs8, in favor of the marines. When we can't even get our third hive up because they've got our first two hives staked out with spammed siege turrets, and we ask that a marine come over to even it up, they respond with "Then it won't be fair retard". "How so?" we respond. " 'Cause the Comm. doesn't count! He can't fight!"....Too which we all say "YOU'VE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME!!".
  • DemerzelDemerzel Join Date: 2002-11-18 Member: 9181Members Posts: 118
    edited November 2002
    fair enough that the commander can't fight, that means that a 1 person imbalance is okay. however, far too often team numbers will be unbalanced by 2 or 3 people. I joined a server the other day and when i joined the aliens it was 7 marines vs. 5 aliens, so before I joined it was 7 v 4. A couple of minutes later an alien left, meaning it was 7 v 4 again. We asked some of the marines to change team but were told to sod off or got this...

    "Aliens don't change when marines need it so why should we change now?"

    Nice attitude pal. When it went to 7 v 3 and they still wouldn't change I perservered for a few minutes but it's pretty hopeless, so I left.

    We need team balancing as unless there is a server admin on the server at the time, people just won't change without that fear of being kicked to make them.

    Yes, at the end of the game people will leave if their cause is lost BUT people will leave in the middle of a game when it is balanced because they need to, whether it be to have food/drink, go out, get cut-off by a 2hr connection limit etc... The game is far too long sometimes to expect people to stay the whole time and thus teams will get unbalanced mid-game. That often leads to one side getting an advantage which is kept to the end. If we had team balance then that could be avoided and skill would be the dominant factor not because one team has sheer numbers to beat the other with...

    please developers get that team balance in or we'll have to deal with people who won't swop for a long time...
  • Y3tiY3ti Join Date: 2002-11-09 Member: 7853Members Posts: 217
    The server should go "Even the teams, now. or die!" and then it should count down from 30 at the end of 30 it should swich 2 players(or how many it would be needed to even the teams plus a extra player), from the team with the advantage, to the team with the disadvantage! then it should slay the whole team, becuase they deserve it !

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  • DemerzelDemerzel Join Date: 2002-11-18 Member: 9181Members Posts: 118
    heh yeah or mebbe a resource penalty? minus a couple of hundred resource pts for the team that won't swop and if they don't have that many, make it so they have to pay off the debt before they can spend again.

    or make the whole offending team luminous so you can't fail to spot them from a distance and all skulks would be in trouble wink.gif
  • LarofeticusLarofeticus Join Date: 2002-10-30 Member: 1764Members Posts: 195
    i've seen it over and over and over again. People just can't comprehend that ns isn't like cs or tfc or any other fps. Your teams strength is not only based on the number of players you have Once you get to these late game situations, one side is going to win no matter what the teams are. Why? Because of the economic factor, absent in all these other games. (fine cs buying is similar, but it is indivudual, and in ns resources are saved/distributed) I recently joined a game of nancy, to find there were 2 marines and 6 aliens. The aliens had 3 hives. I joined marines and found they had bases everywhere, and all the upgrades, and no commander. I promptly gave myself a welder, hmg, and jetpack, and went and killed a hive. The aliens had more players, but the marines had the economic advantage. (unfourtunately we lost that game because no other marines could figure out how to com and resupply me so i could take down any other hives, which led to a humorious situation of me battling a gorg with no ammo and a welder, then trying to avoid an onos with jetpack, and finnally fleeing in terror with 14 h, trying desperately to fit into a vent, finally making it in back to base, getting more ammo, and tapping jump in the mess all to promptly crater myself)

    So, calling for even teams, or forceibly evening the teams once the game is already economically decided, is pointless. However, it IS important to even the teams in the beginning of the game, to be sure each side has a fair shot of getting the economic advantage.
  • Y3tiY3ti Join Date: 2002-11-09 Member: 7853Members Posts: 217
    I was kidding..
    Omg H4x!
    OMG Sup3r Y3ti!

    I always wanted to see 16 onos.....

    Bastages of hate

    Learn this.
  • DemerzelDemerzel Join Date: 2002-11-18 Member: 9181Members Posts: 118
    edited November 2002
    QUOTE (Larofeticus @ Nov 18 2002, 09:50 AM)
    i've seen it over and over and over again.  People just can't comprehend that ns isn't like cs or tfc or any other fps.  Your teams strength is not only based on the number of players you have  Once you get to these late game situations, one side is going to win no matter what the teams are.   Why?  Because of the economic factor, absent in all these other games.  (fine cs buying is similar, but it is indivudual, and in ns resources are saved/distributed)  I recently joined a game of nancy, to find there were 2 marines and 6 aliens.  The aliens had 3 hives.  I joined marines and found they had bases everywhere, and all the upgrades, and no commander.  I promptly gave myself a welder, hmg, and jetpack, and went and killed a hive.  The aliens had more players, but the marines had the economic advantage.                       (unfourtunately we lost that game because no other marines could figure out how to com and resupply me so i could take down any other hives, which led to a humorious situation of me battling a gorg with no ammo and a welder, then trying to avoid an onos with jetpack, and finnally fleeing in terror with 14 h, trying desperately to fit into a vent, finally making it in back to base, getting more ammo, and tapping jump in the mess all to promptly crater myself)

    So, calling for even teams, or forceibly evening the teams once the game is already economically decided, is pointless.  However, it IS important to even the teams in the beginning of the game, to be sure each side has a fair shot of getting the economic advantage.


    At the end game yes lack of numbers is not a problem but to reinforce the point, lack of numbers can often carry the tide at a critical time, our side ( marine ) had taken one hive and were on the verge of taking another. We lost a few people due to various reasons and found suddenly we were hard put to keep what we had even with the addition of hmgs & armour. Lack of numbers caused our offensive on the 2nd hive to be held to a stalemate whilst they managed to use their additional numbers to wear down our base at the hive.

    As they had several extra players they had the numbers to attack on two fronts at once whilst we had to concentrate on one threat at a time.

    At the end, if one side has a big advantage then yes numbers aren't going to mean much. However, at the beginning and middle of a game lack of/excessive numbers can be vital to your cause.

    And I was also not being serious, with my "luminous" remarks above - note the "wink.gif"

    *edited somewhat due to misreading post*
  • wlibaerswlibaers Join Date: 2002-11-15 Member: 8685Members Posts: 552
    Perhaps players should get individual upgrades if their team is outnumbered. 10 marines vs. 1 skulk... Think you've won marines? Here comes... Super Skulk! skulk.gif Enter violent road-runner-like ball of fur and teeth cutting through the marine base as it that turret forest just wasn't there. wink.gif
  • lazygamerlazygamer Join Date: 2002-01-28 Member: 126Members Posts: 452
    Isn't there some "chance resource collection when teams unbalanced" option? That obviously doesn't do enough. So what about:

    Difference of 2 players.

    Outnumbered team=+10% resource collection
    Outnumbering team=-20% faster resource collection

    Difference of 3 players.

    Outnumbered team=+20% resource collection
    Outnumbering team=-30% resource collection, takes 10% less damage

    Difference of 4 players
    Outnumbered team=+40% resource collection
    Outnumbering team=-40% resource collection, takes 20% less damage

    Difference of 5 players
    Outnumbered team=+80% resource collection
    Outnumbering team=-50% resource collection, takes 30% less damage

    Difference of 6 players
    Outnumbered team=+160% resource collection
    Outnumbering team=-60% resource collection, takes 40% less damage

    And so on(-90% is the maximum penalty for an outnumbered team, and an outnumbered team will only take 90% less damage).

    This "less damage" is applied before anything else. It's unreasonable to expect people to switch teams, now they don't have to. A 4 VS 8 game will be more playable now.

    Less damage also applies to structures as well as players. So you'll have a harder time destroying turrets, hives, CC etc.

    As you can see hear, I view a one man difference as insignifcant, and a two man difference as only a moderate advantage.
  • DaxxDaxx Join Date: 2002-04-16 Member: 460Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 1,606 Fully active user
    QUOTE (wlibaers @ Nov 18 2002, 01:19 PM)
    Perhaps players should get individual upgrades if their team is outnumbered. 10 marines vs. 1 skulk... Think you've won marines? Here comes... Super Skulk! skulk.gif Enter violent road-runner-like ball of fur and teeth cutting through the marine base as it that turret forest just wasn't there. wink.gif

    And Lazygamer...


    This is an option, that server admins can turn on, its a resource handicap option I belive. If one team has less than half the number of players as the opposing team, they get 6X the resource flow. Granted this would help the aliens a bit more, but still usefull for both sides. Unfortunatly, its an option, and I havn't played a game yet where it was turned on.
  • KyuneKyune Join Date: 2002-11-16 Member: 8952Members Posts: 67
    Hmm....In any case, resource handicapping seems viable enough. The best implementation would be to make it dynamic, though, as teams rebalance throughout the game.
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  • lazygamerlazygamer Join Date: 2002-01-28 Member: 126Members Posts: 452
    And of course, what happens if the marines have 10 players, and the aliens have 6 players? DOH! One man short of the 6x bonus! smile.gif
  • BattousaixBattousaix Join Date: 2002-06-25 Member: 822Members Posts: 1,318
    I think the solution is pretty simple, if the teams are unbalanced by more than 2 guys, and after 1 min, nobody switches, auto switch some1........
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  • sundancesundance Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2322Members Posts: 7
    xioutlawix, read demerzel's post. Sorry for the misunderstanding, I stupidly assumed that people would understand what I meant. I guess I should have explained more as demerzel did. Again sorry to have confused you.
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