Wow, I need to make a script to post all my "exactly" replies in this thread <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-mirrodin+Mar 16 2005, 06:03 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (mirrodin @ Mar 16 2005, 06:03 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The weird thing is scripts do not aim for you, nor do they increase how well you play. All they do is increase your effiecieny(sp?). If I get my pistol crosshairs on a skulk my script just makes the <b>semi-auto pistol into a full automatic gun.</b>
Valve allows users to edit their scripts, no harm. The NS Team even allows servers to activate mp_blockscripts. Simply put, if you do not like scripts or you believe that they are 'explotive' or 'evil' then you are welcome to play on those servers that block scripts.
Many people complain that scripts give players the advantage. It is there own fault that they do not understand the system.
If scripts are bad because they make me more effiecent then overclocking my CPU must be a sin since I can play the game much smoother. Obv. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> That is exactly the problem with scripting. The pistol is not intended to be a full auto gun, so it is fair for players to complain that they have to learn to script in HL in order to unlock the hidden potential of one of the weapons in the game that really isn't even suppose to exist.
Really the only script I still see as at all abusive is the pistol script. Not to say it is impossible to achive the accuracy and achive the maximum rate of fire with the gun without scripting, but compared to an on click of click script it is much more difficult to master.
The whole rought of the debate surrounding the 3jump scripts is that Bhopping is just kindof a yucky peice of movement code in NS. In all honesty the mousewheel is probably better then a 3 jump script most of the time because your timing is more precice and it is several times easier to time right on icky surfaces with slight depth changes, and on ramp jumps. Long story short it is easier to attack people who script in order to bunnyhop then it is to attack Bhopping, because scripting is still somewhat taboo, simply because the development team has stated that bhopping is an intentionally included feature per say.
obuhNot Quite Smart at NSJoin Date: 2003-03-31Member: 15072Members, Constellation
It's really easy to reach the pistol fire cap (I personally have bound mouse1 and mouse2 to +attack, lets me fire at max speed if my fps is good). If people find that the pistol's rate of fire is too high, and "the pistol is not intended to be a full auto gun", then they should complain to the devs to make it slower, instead of randomly labelling people as scripters as soon as they can shoot fast, scripted or not.
For bhop, surely the mousewheel is the better solution, but I don't see why players should forced to use the mousewheel to jump, if they prefer using it for another purpose, and jumping with another key.
<!--QuoteBegin-c4t+Mar 17 2005, 02:57 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (c4t @ Mar 17 2005, 02:57 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> actually theres a script that comes pretty close to bhopping for you, its bound to mwheelup and mwheeldown and when you scroll mhweel up it jumps and looks left for you, and vice versa. its not very good but it still comes very very close to bhopping for you. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> same with leap/bite, it comes close but still restricts you a lot.
*all* repeat *all* scripts which were considered exploitative by the NS dev team (_special, wigglewalks etc) have been blocked. That is to say they DO NOT WORK AT ALL WITH THE CURRENT VERSION OF NS.
2)
Scripts do NOT directly make you play better. They do not:
Aim for you. Bhop for you. Let you see through walls. Kill skulks with 1 bullet.
They are a CUSTOMIZATION which some people use because of PERSONAL PREFERENCE. There is NO advantage in using a 3jump over mousewheel for bhopping, not a pistol script over a normal mouse button / mousewheel.
The ONLY reason some people play better with scripts was summed up a while ago by Forlorn, I can't find the exact quote but it is because these people have streamlined their controls more, which is a completely different concept.
3)
Pistol scripts (arguably the only 'exploitatious' script) are nowhere near as good as people think.
Let's go with your standard 2shot script, fires 1 shot when you click, 1 shot when you release. If you click too fast, it only fires 1 shot. That means that you're actually firing as if you do NOT use a script. You actually have to regulate the speed that you click your mouse in order to get the best rate of fire. Also, it does NOT break the RoF cap on the pistol. Yet another reason why it is not exploitatious.
Now, I will list the number of alternatives you have to using a pistol script which can give the EXACT SAME RESULT (faster pistol shooting) :
Clicking your mouse faster (i know loads of people who do this and shoot faster than I do with a 3shot script) Using an external key macro Using your mousewheel Using more than 1 mouse button bound to fire and bashing all of them at once.
To conclude : All exploitatious scripts have been removed from the game
Any player who plays better with scripts than without, does so because he has CUSTOMIZED and STREAMLINED his controls - and therefore is more comfortable with them.
To reiterate: THERE ARE NO EXPLOITATIOUS SCRIPTS IN THE GAME.,
SpaceJesus is right.. though the general concensus of most players playing NS at this very moment is that scripts are these little add-on "things" that let you do "new" things to kill other players better.
I only have to thank the NS dev team for helping to perpetuate this belief that scripts are the reason why players get lucky or just happen to be good at what they're doing.
<!--QuoteBegin-SpaceJesus+Mar 18 2005, 12:48 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SpaceJesus @ Mar 18 2005, 12:48 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> To reiterate: THERE ARE NO EXPLOITATIOUS SCRIPTS IN THE GAME.,
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> wigglewalk script is still in, yes it locks you up but it still has value early game or in areas you are 95 percent sure you are safe.
it can also help you ninja hives better if you have mt because you can run pretty fast.
As Zunni expressed before, and I assume some other NS developers have the same sentiment; scripts are used by the competitive players of NS. Hence this sub-section located under NS Organized Play and not Customization... it's all a crock anyway..
And for the wigglewalk script, well. i find it rather useless. I feel better with just glide jumping/wallstrafing/bhop to gain speed with marines. Also using wiggle walk makes you walk in straight lines, which is bad imo.
I can understand the reasoning behind it still being here, but it really isn't needed. There are arguably no exploitative scripts in the game, and there are no out-and-out exploitative scripts in the game. Not one. Fair enough the wigglewalk script is still in, but that locks you up completely and I seriously doubt it'd be used by any top level players.
I'm sure it has a very limited impact but it's nothing that you can't do by mashing your strafe keys, which brings us right back to where we began, how do you define an exploitative script.
1) Any script that makes it 'easier' to play eg. pistol / 3jump scripts / wigglewalk
2) Any script that abuses a known exploit in the game code eg. _special, crash bugs, silent leap script etc
Personally I'm in the camp of #2
It's not an ongoing argument whether scripts are good or bad, its an ongoing argument over how to define an exploitatious script.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->You could go on and on you say? Please do, I'll clear up any misconceptions <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> no you won't. you'll express your <i>opinion</i> on the subject which, at this point, i couldn't care less about. it's funny how you 'scripting zealots' are just as bad as the 'anti-scripting zealots' that you incessantly whine about...
<!--QuoteBegin-l0tus+Mar 20 2005, 10:55 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (l0tus @ Mar 20 2005, 10:55 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->You could go on and on you say? Please do, I'll clear up any misconceptions <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> no you won't. you'll express your <i>opinion</i> on the subject which, at this point, i couldn't care less about. it's funny how you 'scripting zealots' are just as bad as the 'anti-scripting zealots' that you incessantly whine about... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Interesting way to put it.
I think I speak on behalf of the majority of people who frequent this forum when I say :
Sorry. Really, I apologise for defending my views, I won't do it again, ever. It's obviously such a bad thing to do.
The reality is that scripting would most likely be totally removed if people just stopped arguing for it. So how that makes us "scripting zealots", defending something we believe is unnecessary to remove, beats me.
looking for martyrdom? if they have the blockscript option, why would they ever remove them entirely? its up to the individual admin right now, as it should be. i doubt any amount of people whining about scripts would result in them removing them completely, but i could be wrong. although...if that were the case, we'd probably have babblers, lerkspikes and HAs with jetpacks. however, i was simply pointing out that people who <i>don't</i> like scripts -and decide to say so- are merely "defending [their] views," and arguing against "something [they] believe is unnecessary." in other words, most of them are no different than you, yet they are labeled and sterotyped because they offer a differeing opinion, i.e. <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif' /><!--endemo--> anti-script people <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> i'm not 'against' scripts; i'm 'against' the hypocritical views sometimes expressed by the people 'for' them. if i cared to learn how they worked and how to write my own to suit my needs, i'd probably use them as well.
The script subject always ends up in an outrage of flamming from each sides...
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->no you won't. you'll express your opinion on the subject which, at this point, i couldn't care less about. it's funny how you 'scripting zealots' are just as bad as the 'anti-scripting zealots' that you incessantly whine about...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thats a start of flamming material right there...I was almost **** seing that!
Well first things first; the first ever person whining was and anti-scripting person. Secondly, if he whined; he must of lost against him and was trying to find an excuse.
Me, I just wish scripts would come WITH the game and bindable in the options menu. Taking all scripts off would limits us to mouse wheel for most "exploiting scripts", and that would change nothing at all. - Having a better pc > Scripts
If you don't like it on pc go play with consoles, and go find something else to whine about if you get owned. - <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->i'm not 'against' scripts; i'm 'against' the hypocritical views sometimes expressed by the people 'for' them. if i cared to learn how they worked and how to write my own to suit my needs, i'd probably use them as well.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thats exactly what should be non-scriptors.
If you feel like not using scripts against people that do and feel proud of it, go ahead! But someone can't say anything if they haven't tried... - What I think that should'nt be "scritable" is rates. They should be automatic so that everyone is at same rate compared to all the players on the server. That would make the game a lot less frustrating, well for me at least.
Maybe then, more than half my bite/bullets would actually hit the target when I aim at the graphic.
Without even being consious of it (maybe some do), some players have their hit-box so wrong that its a bigger exploit than any scripts I ever seen.
<!--QuoteBegin-Diablo fx+Mar 20 2005, 02:43 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Diablo fx @ Mar 20 2005, 02:43 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->-Pistol script just press the +attack bottum or bind +attack to mwheel. Bind multiple keys.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I'm surprised no one in this thread mentionned "modded mouses". Just add a small on/off switch on your mouse to turn mouse 1 on "autofire mode". There, pistol script, mp_bs won't block it and you can bind mousewheel to something else. This can work to bhop too as this can spam any command REALLY REALLY quick ... There is no way to block this.
I'm not really neutral into the scripting debate, in fact i <i>hate</i> mp_bs, to the point i only play on mp_bs 0 servers.
1- It's dividing the community (see above) (wich is already divided by combat/classic) 2- It's creating confusion among new players 3- It creates endless flames and debates on the forums (usualy cause of #2) 4- It serves no purpose as there are no abusive scripts anymore (i'm on topic! <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> ) 5- It's ridiculous as there are workarounds 6- It blocks almost all scripts regardless of what they are doing 7- It's taking developpement time wich could be used for more interesting things
But i usualy try to avoid such debates for various reasons (it's useless cause of the ignorance of some players, i'm not good at debating something as english isnt my first language, i've better things to do (not this time), etc). Not to mention i can filter mp_bs1 servers. And i agree with: good computer > scripts. I play with 40-60 fps and it's hard to keep up vs 100fpsers, scripting or not.
So, ASE filter ftw!
1 if game ~== "ns" goto 3 2 remove 3 if mp_blockscripts == "0" goto 5 4 remove
If one day they remove mp_bs, wich is hurting NS, my favorite game, and its community, i'm gonna drink a bottle of champagne. Seriously. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
It's the worse piece of code ever created. That is all. Hehe.
<!--QuoteBegin-Diablo fx+Mar 19 2005, 07:43 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Diablo fx @ Mar 19 2005, 07:43 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I dont even see how anyone can see pistol, 3hop and wiggle walk scripts as explorit scripts. You can do all of them with the mwheel.
-Pistol script just press the +attack bottum or bind +attack to mwheel. Bind multiple keys. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Multiple keys can come close, but they are a little more of a hassle then just using a press release script. The mousewheel is crap for pistoling. Your average pistol clip takes 2 full seconds to unload, your average mousewheel stroke lasts maby 1/3 of a second. You rarely get off more then 3 shots at full ROF with the mousewheel bound to attack before your stroke ends and your bullets stop fireing sharp, it's easier to just practice your twitch mucles. Pistol scripts are definately matchable with no scripts, even if you just have mouse1 bound to +attack and no other keys, it is easier and does give you a bit of an edge mastering the pistol whip with a script though. This script is very minorly exploitive, but still is, to that slight degree.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->-3hop bind multiple keys to jump or use the mwheel<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Agreed compleatly. I personally prefer the mousewheel to any type of script anyways because your timing can be even LESS precise.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->-wiggle tap strafe keys manuelly, or bind them to mwheel and roll back and forth.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I don't really know what script you are refering too here... The only wiggle walk script I know of that worked well was the _special one, and that was exploitive because it easily allowed for a greater speed boost via wiggle walking then is humanly possible to achive without the _special wiggle script enabled.
aonomusDedicated NS Mastermind (no need for school)Join Date: 2003-11-26Member: 23605Members, Constellation
<!--QuoteBegin-DragonMech+Mar 17 2005, 03:32 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DragonMech @ Mar 17 2005, 03:32 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Akalamanaia+Mar 17 2005, 08:54 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Akalamanaia @ Mar 17 2005, 08:54 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> You contradict yourself, increasing your efficiency is increasing how well you play. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Efficiency does not equal skill. Pit two different players together: a skulk from [t]error and a marine who has only been playing the game a few weeks.
1) Give both players default configs. Skulk wins.
2) Give the marine loads of scripts. Skulk still wins.
3) Give the marine an aimbot and wallhack. Marine wins.
Please note the difference. Hacks make you play better. Scripts make the game more comfortable for you to play. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> By wallhack you do mean MT...
<!--QuoteBegin-Swiftspear+Mar 21 2005, 10:22 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Swiftspear @ Mar 21 2005, 10:22 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Diablo fx+Mar 19 2005, 07:43 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Diablo fx @ Mar 19 2005, 07:43 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I dont even see how anyone can see pistol, 3hop and wiggle walk scripts as explorit scripts. You can do all of them with the mwheel.
-Pistol script just press the +attack bottum or bind +attack to mwheel. Bind multiple keys. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Multiple keys can come close, but they are a little more of a hassle then just using a press release script. The mousewheel is crap for pistoling. Your average pistol clip takes 2 full seconds to unload, your average mousewheel stroke lasts maby 1/3 of a second. You rarely get off more then 3 shots at full ROF with the mousewheel bound to attack before your stroke ends and your bullets stop fireing sharp, it's easier to just practice your twitch mucles. Pistol scripts are definately matchable with no scripts, even if you just have mouse1 bound to +attack and no other keys, it is easier and does give you a bit of an edge mastering the pistol whip with a script though. This script is very minorly exploitive, but still is, to that slight degree.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->-3hop bind multiple keys to jump or use the mwheel<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Agreed compleatly. I personally prefer the mousewheel to any type of script anyways because your timing can be even LESS precise.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->-wiggle tap strafe keys manuelly, or bind them to mwheel and roll back and forth.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I don't really know what script you are refering too here... The only wiggle walk script I know of that worked well was the _special one, and that was exploitive because it easily allowed for a greater speed boost via wiggle walking then is humanly possible to achive without the _special wiggle script enabled. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Also for pistoling, you could get a macro or a gamepad, anyways using scripted pistoling can be bad for you too. I find that i waste more ammo on nothing because i clicked too fast.
By wiggle i mean the non-explorit one (non _special). I agree that _special is exploritive but the normal one is just, useless imo it locks you up. Even without the script it is posible to get nearly the same boost, as i said you could bind mwheelup to +left and mwheeldown to +right. By +left and +right i mean strafing.
<!--QuoteBegin-Diablo fx+Mar 21 2005, 09:51 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Diablo fx @ Mar 21 2005, 09:51 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Swiftspear+Mar 21 2005, 10:22 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Swiftspear @ Mar 21 2005, 10:22 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Diablo fx+Mar 19 2005, 07:43 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Diablo fx @ Mar 19 2005, 07:43 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I dont even see how anyone can see pistol, 3hop and wiggle walk scripts as explorit scripts. You can do all of them with the mwheel.
-Pistol script just press the +attack bottum or bind +attack to mwheel. Bind multiple keys. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Multiple keys can come close, but they are a little more of a hassle then just using a press release script. The mousewheel is crap for pistoling. Your average pistol clip takes 2 full seconds to unload, your average mousewheel stroke lasts maby 1/3 of a second. You rarely get off more then 3 shots at full ROF with the mousewheel bound to attack before your stroke ends and your bullets stop fireing sharp, it's easier to just practice your twitch mucles. Pistol scripts are definately matchable with no scripts, even if you just have mouse1 bound to +attack and no other keys, it is easier and does give you a bit of an edge mastering the pistol whip with a script though. This script is very minorly exploitive, but still is, to that slight degree.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->-3hop bind multiple keys to jump or use the mwheel<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Agreed compleatly. I personally prefer the mousewheel to any type of script anyways because your timing can be even LESS precise.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->-wiggle tap strafe keys manuelly, or bind them to mwheel and roll back and forth.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I don't really know what script you are refering too here... The only wiggle walk script I know of that worked well was the _special one, and that was exploitive because it easily allowed for a greater speed boost via wiggle walking then is humanly possible to achive without the _special wiggle script enabled. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Also for pistoling, you could get a macro or a gamepad, anyways using scripted pistoling can be bad for you too. I find that i waste more ammo on nothing because i clicked too fast.
By wiggle i mean the non-explorit one (non _special). I agree that _special is exploritive but the normal one is just, useless imo it locks you up. Even without the script it is posible to get nearly the same boost, as i said you could bind mwheelup to +left and mwheeldown to +right. By +left and +right i mean strafing. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Agreed. The mousewheel thing wouldn't work well for wiggle walking (since you need to rapidly hammer back and forth, not click one side repeditively then the other), but you generally have more control doing it manually then using a non _special script for it.
The only exception I can imagine is if you were to bind mouse wheel commands to something along the lines of, "+moveleft; wait; +moveright; wait;" (the syntax is probably wrong, I don't really write scripts) and then were to stroke the wheel in game. Theoretically that should give you the rapid back and forth movement achived with a _special wiggle walk script without giving up the control of being able to stop wiggle walking at a moments notice.
<!--QuoteBegin-Swiftspear+Mar 21 2005, 04:37 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Swiftspear @ Mar 21 2005, 04:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Diablo fx+Mar 21 2005, 09:51 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Diablo fx @ Mar 21 2005, 09:51 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Swiftspear+Mar 21 2005, 10:22 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Swiftspear @ Mar 21 2005, 10:22 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Diablo fx+Mar 19 2005, 07:43 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Diablo fx @ Mar 19 2005, 07:43 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I dont even see how anyone can see pistol, 3hop and wiggle walk scripts as explorit scripts. You can do all of them with the mwheel.
-Pistol script just press the +attack bottum or bind +attack to mwheel. Bind multiple keys. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Multiple keys can come close, but they are a little more of a hassle then just using a press release script. The mousewheel is crap for pistoling. Your average pistol clip takes 2 full seconds to unload, your average mousewheel stroke lasts maby 1/3 of a second. You rarely get off more then 3 shots at full ROF with the mousewheel bound to attack before your stroke ends and your bullets stop fireing sharp, it's easier to just practice your twitch mucles. Pistol scripts are definately matchable with no scripts, even if you just have mouse1 bound to +attack and no other keys, it is easier and does give you a bit of an edge mastering the pistol whip with a script though. This script is very minorly exploitive, but still is, to that slight degree.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->-3hop bind multiple keys to jump or use the mwheel<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Agreed compleatly. I personally prefer the mousewheel to any type of script anyways because your timing can be even LESS precise.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->-wiggle tap strafe keys manuelly, or bind them to mwheel and roll back and forth.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I don't really know what script you are refering too here... The only wiggle walk script I know of that worked well was the _special one, and that was exploitive because it easily allowed for a greater speed boost via wiggle walking then is humanly possible to achive without the _special wiggle script enabled. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Also for pistoling, you could get a macro or a gamepad, anyways using scripted pistoling can be bad for you too. I find that i waste more ammo on nothing because i clicked too fast.
By wiggle i mean the non-explorit one (non _special). I agree that _special is exploritive but the normal one is just, useless imo it locks you up. Even without the script it is posible to get nearly the same boost, as i said you could bind mwheelup to +left and mwheeldown to +right. By +left and +right i mean strafing. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Agreed. The mousewheel thing wouldn't work well for wiggle walking (since you need to rapidly hammer back and forth, not click one side repeditively then the other), but you generally have more control doing it manually then using a non _special script for it.
The only exception I can imagine is if you were to bind mouse wheel commands to something along the lines of, "+moveleft; wait; +moveright; wait;" (the syntax is probably wrong, I don't really write scripts) and then were to stroke the wheel in game. Theoretically that should give you the rapid back and forth movement achived with a _special wiggle walk script without giving up the control of being able to stop wiggle walking at a moments notice. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I could make a wiggle walk script that works everytime you roll the scoll, it just wouldn't work on mp_bs 1 scripts.
That should work, though if it dosn't try this one.. more complex <!--c1--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>CODE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='CODE'><!--ec1--> alias ml "+moveleft; wait; -moveleft; bind mwheelup mr" alias mr "+moveright; wait; -moveright; bind mwheelup ml" alias ml2 "+moveleft; wait; -moveleft; bind mwheeldown mr2" alias mr2 "+moveright; wait; -moveright; bind mwheeldown ml2" bind mwheelup ml bind mwheeldown ml2<!--c2--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--ec2-->
Super Edit: With the first script i could get the speed of 304 as a basic marine without any weapons.
All I have to say is why are you people so lazy that you need a script to do something for you. Just press the button 10 times in a row to fire off your pistol clip. Or just press jump quickly if you want to jump again.
I'd rather play the game then just sit and watch my computer do it for me. It takes skill to be good without the aid of scripts/programmable devices/increased gamma/exploits/etc. Turn your gamma down, disable your scripts, don't exploit, and play the game the old fashioned way...where <b>you</b> actually play, and don't let the computer play for you.
Let scripters play on scripting servers, and those that have mp_bs 1, just respect their way of playing and try to play *oldschool*
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->All I have to say is why are you people so lazy that you need a script to do something for you. Just press the button 10 times in a row to fire off your pistol clip. Or just press jump quickly if you want to jump again.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why the hell not? It's in the f**king game so why should we not be able to use it?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I'd rather play the game then just sit and watch my computer do it for me. It takes skill to be good without the aid of scripts/programmable devices/increased gamma/exploits/etc. Turn your gamma down, disable your scripts, don't exploit, and play the game the old fashioned way...where <b>you</b> actually play, and don't let the computer play for you.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Okay, and how many euro top clan players actually use scripts? I know for certain that moomin doesn't, and he's one of the top clanners in the UK. How many others are there on the scene who I can't say for certain play without scripts.
Just take it:
scripts != skills scripts == personal preference
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Let scripters play on scripting servers, and those that have mp_bs 1, just respect their way of playing and try to play *oldschool* <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Honestly, this is how things should be. I play on mp_bs 1 servers (roflcopter at the irony, mp_BS lol) and I play just as well without scripts as I do with. I just feel more comfortable playing with scripts.
<!--QuoteBegin-Boris+Mar 21 2005, 07:15 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Boris @ Mar 21 2005, 07:15 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> All I have to say is why are you people so lazy that you need a script to do something for you. Just press the button 10 times in a row to fire off your pistol clip. Or just press jump quickly if you want to jump again.
I'd rather play the game then just sit and watch my computer do it for me. It takes skill to be good without the aid of scripts/programmable devices/increased gamma/exploits/etc. Turn your gamma down, disable your scripts, don't exploit, and play the game the old fashioned way...where <b>you</b> actually play, and don't let the computer play for you.
Let scripters play on scripting servers, and those that have mp_bs 1, just respect their way of playing and try to play *oldschool* <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> You don't get it do you?
The game is balanced around bhop, and i would say that it is nearly imposible to bhop with just the space bar bound to +jump.
And what are you talking about about us being "lazy" ? Have you ever tried a script, no?
Scripts is all about how each of us like to play, as of. We are humans, we're not some robot thinkking the same way, allways. Some players may find it easier to jump with their thumb instead of rolling the mousewheel, is this so hard to understand?
It is all about, HOW you play the game. Why should we play it the way it was made, when it is so easy to customize it?
Scripts came with halflife, why did you think they made scripting in the first place? For people to use it of course. Why would anyone crack up the gamma to play in an ultra dark map? The thing about games is that, people play them to have fun. Some of us may not find it fun to be killed by invisible enemies.
In short: People are not the same, they play the games different ways, why is it so hard to understand.
Just expressing my opinion. But basically the last part is the only part I really wanted to touch on.
If mp_bs is on, I know you guys think it is stupid, but at least try to play like the server owners want you to play...without the use of any kind of scripting/programmable aid.
That's all <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Comments
I was wondering, what is the point of _special? It's not even usable anymore, if I understand correctly(That's a long shot).
Valve allows users to edit their scripts, no harm. The NS Team even allows servers to activate mp_blockscripts. Simply put, if you do not like scripts or you believe that they are 'explotive' or 'evil' then you are welcome to play on those servers that block scripts.
Many people complain that scripts give players the advantage. It is there own fault that they do not understand the system.
If scripts are bad because they make me more effiecent then overclocking my CPU must be a sin since I can play the game much smoother. Obv. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
That is exactly the problem with scripting. The pistol is not intended to be a full auto gun, so it is fair for players to complain that they have to learn to script in HL in order to unlock the hidden potential of one of the weapons in the game that really isn't even suppose to exist.
Really the only script I still see as at all abusive is the pistol script. Not to say it is impossible to achive the accuracy and achive the maximum rate of fire with the gun without scripting, but compared to an on click of click script it is much more difficult to master.
The whole rought of the debate surrounding the 3jump scripts is that Bhopping is just kindof a yucky peice of movement code in NS. In all honesty the mousewheel is probably better then a 3 jump script most of the time because your timing is more precice and it is several times easier to time right on icky surfaces with slight depth changes, and on ramp jumps. Long story short it is easier to attack people who script in order to bunnyhop then it is to attack Bhopping, because scripting is still somewhat taboo, simply because the development team has stated that bhopping is an intentionally included feature per say.
For bhop, surely the mousewheel is the better solution, but I don't see why players should forced to use the mousewheel to jump, if they prefer using it for another purpose, and jumping with another key.
same with leap/bite, it comes close but still restricts you a lot.
1)
*all* repeat *all* scripts which were considered exploitative by the NS dev team (_special, wigglewalks etc) have been blocked. That is to say they DO NOT WORK AT ALL WITH THE CURRENT VERSION OF NS.
2)
Scripts do NOT directly make you play better. They do not:
Aim for you.
Bhop for you.
Let you see through walls.
Kill skulks with 1 bullet.
They are a CUSTOMIZATION which some people use because of PERSONAL PREFERENCE.
There is NO advantage in using a 3jump over mousewheel for bhopping, not a pistol script over a normal mouse button / mousewheel.
The ONLY reason some people play better with scripts was summed up a while ago by Forlorn, I can't find the exact quote but it is because these people have streamlined their controls more, which is a completely different concept.
3)
Pistol scripts (arguably the only 'exploitatious' script) are nowhere near as good as people think.
Let's go with your standard 2shot script, fires 1 shot when you click, 1 shot when you release.
If you click too fast, it only fires 1 shot. That means that you're actually firing as if you do NOT use a script. You actually have to regulate the speed that you click your mouse in order to get the best rate of fire.
Also, it does NOT break the RoF cap on the pistol. Yet another reason why it is not exploitatious.
Now, I will list the number of alternatives you have to using a pistol script which can give the EXACT SAME RESULT (faster pistol shooting) :
Clicking your mouse faster (i know loads of people who do this and shoot faster than I do with a 3shot script)
Using an external key macro
Using your mousewheel
Using more than 1 mouse button bound to fire and bashing all of them at once.
To conclude :
All exploitatious scripts have been removed from the game
Any player who plays better with scripts than without, does so because he has CUSTOMIZED and STREAMLINED his controls - and therefore is more comfortable with them.
To reiterate: THERE ARE NO EXPLOITATIOUS SCRIPTS IN THE GAME.,
Go Figure.
I only have to thank the NS dev team for helping to perpetuate this belief that scripts are the reason why players get lucky or just happen to be good at what they're doing.
To reiterate: THERE ARE NO EXPLOITATIOUS SCRIPTS IN THE GAME.,
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
wigglewalk script is still in, yes it locks you up but it still has value early game or in areas you are 95 percent sure you are safe.
it can also help you ninja hives better if you have mt because you can run pretty fast.
It annoys me why blockscripts is still here.
And for the wigglewalk script, well. i find it rather useless. I feel better with just glide jumping/wallstrafing/bhop to gain speed with marines. Also using wiggle walk makes you walk in straight lines, which is bad imo.
Fair enough the wigglewalk script is still in, but that locks you up completely and I seriously doubt it'd be used by any top level players.
I'm sure it has a very limited impact but it's nothing that you can't do by mashing your strafe keys, which brings us right back to where we began, how do you define an exploitative script.
1)
Any script that makes it 'easier' to play
eg. pistol / 3jump scripts / wigglewalk
2)
Any script that abuses a known exploit in the game code
eg. _special, crash bugs, silent leap script etc
Personally I'm in the camp of #2
It's not an ongoing argument whether scripts are good or bad, its an ongoing argument over how to define an exploitatious script.
You can do all of them with the mwheel.
-Pistol script
just press the +attack bottum or bind +attack to mwheel. Bind multiple keys.
-3hop
bind multiple keys to jump or use the mwheel
-wiggle
tap strafe keys manuelly, or bind them to mwheel and roll back and forth.
<!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif' /><!--endemo--> anti-script people <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
no you won't. you'll express your <i>opinion</i> on the subject which, at this point, i couldn't care less about. it's funny how you 'scripting zealots' are just as bad as the 'anti-scripting zealots' that you incessantly whine about...
no you won't. you'll express your <i>opinion</i> on the subject which, at this point, i couldn't care less about. it's funny how you 'scripting zealots' are just as bad as the 'anti-scripting zealots' that you incessantly whine about... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Interesting way to put it.
Sorry. Really, I apologise for defending my views, I won't do it again, ever. It's obviously such a bad thing to do.
The reality is that scripting would most likely be totally removed if people just stopped arguing for it. So how that makes us "scripting zealots", defending something we believe is unnecessary to remove, beats me.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif' /><!--endemo--> anti-script people <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i'm not 'against' scripts; i'm 'against' the hypocritical views sometimes expressed by the people 'for' them. if i cared to learn how they worked and how to write my own to suit my needs, i'd probably use them as well.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->no you won't. you'll express your opinion on the subject which, at this point, i couldn't care less about. it's funny how you 'scripting zealots' are just as bad as the 'anti-scripting zealots' that you incessantly whine about...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thats a start of flamming material right there...I was almost **** seing that!
Well first things first; the first ever person whining was and anti-scripting person.
Secondly, if he whined; he must of lost against him and was trying to find an excuse.
Me, I just wish scripts would come WITH the game and bindable in the options menu.
Taking all scripts off would limits us to mouse wheel for most "exploiting scripts", and that would change nothing at all.
-
Having a better pc > Scripts
If you don't like it on pc go play with consoles, and go find something else to whine about if you get owned.
-
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->i'm not 'against' scripts; i'm 'against' the hypocritical views sometimes expressed by the people 'for' them. if i cared to learn how they worked and how to write my own to suit my needs, i'd probably use them as well.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thats exactly what should be non-scriptors.
If you feel like not using scripts against people that do and feel proud of it, go ahead!
But someone can't say anything if they haven't tried...
-
What I think that should'nt be "scritable" is rates. They should be automatic so that everyone is at same rate compared to all the players on the server. That would make the game a lot less frustrating, well for me at least.
Maybe then, more than half my bite/bullets would actually hit the target when I aim at the graphic.
Without even being consious of it (maybe some do), some players have their hit-box so wrong that its a bigger exploit than any scripts I ever seen.
just press the +attack bottum or bind +attack to mwheel. Bind multiple keys.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm surprised no one in this thread mentionned "modded mouses". Just add a small on/off switch on your mouse to turn mouse 1 on "autofire mode". There, pistol script, mp_bs won't block it and you can bind mousewheel to something else. This can work to bhop too as this can spam any command REALLY REALLY quick ... There is no way to block this.
I'm not really neutral into the scripting debate, in fact i <i>hate</i> mp_bs, to the point i only play on mp_bs 0 servers.
1- It's dividing the community (see above) (wich is already divided by combat/classic)
2- It's creating confusion among new players
3- It creates endless flames and debates on the forums (usualy cause of #2)
4- It serves no purpose as there are no abusive scripts anymore (i'm on topic! <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> )
5- It's ridiculous as there are workarounds
6- It blocks almost all scripts regardless of what they are doing
7- It's taking developpement time wich could be used for more interesting things
But i usualy try to avoid such debates for various reasons (it's useless cause of the ignorance of some players, i'm not good at debating something as english isnt my first language, i've better things to do (not this time), etc). Not to mention i can filter mp_bs1 servers. And i agree with: good computer > scripts. I play with 40-60 fps and it's hard to keep up vs 100fpsers, scripting or not.
So, ASE filter ftw!
1 if game ~== "ns" goto 3
2 remove
3 if mp_blockscripts == "0" goto 5
4 remove
If one day they remove mp_bs, wich is hurting NS, my favorite game, and its community, i'm gonna drink a bottle of champagne. Seriously. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
It's the worse piece of code ever created. That is all. Hehe.
You can do all of them with the mwheel.
-Pistol script
just press the +attack bottum or bind +attack to mwheel. Bind multiple keys. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Multiple keys can come close, but they are a little more of a hassle then just using a press release script. The mousewheel is crap for pistoling. Your average pistol clip takes 2 full seconds to unload, your average mousewheel stroke lasts maby 1/3 of a second. You rarely get off more then 3 shots at full ROF with the mousewheel bound to attack before your stroke ends and your bullets stop fireing sharp, it's easier to just practice your twitch mucles. Pistol scripts are definately matchable with no scripts, even if you just have mouse1 bound to +attack and no other keys, it is easier and does give you a bit of an edge mastering the pistol whip with a script though. This script is very minorly exploitive, but still is, to that slight degree.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->-3hop
bind multiple keys to jump or use the mwheel<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Agreed compleatly. I personally prefer the mousewheel to any type of script anyways because your timing can be even LESS precise.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->-wiggle
tap strafe keys manuelly, or bind them to mwheel and roll back and forth.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't really know what script you are refering too here... The only wiggle walk script I know of that worked well was the _special one, and that was exploitive because it easily allowed for a greater speed boost via wiggle walking then is humanly possible to achive without the _special wiggle script enabled.
Efficiency does not equal skill. Pit two different players together: a skulk from [t]error and a marine who has only been playing the game a few weeks.
1) Give both players default configs. Skulk wins.
2) Give the marine loads of scripts. Skulk still wins.
3) Give the marine an aimbot and wallhack. Marine wins.
Please note the difference. Hacks make you play better. Scripts make the game more comfortable for you to play. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
By wallhack you do mean MT...
You can do all of them with the mwheel.
-Pistol script
just press the +attack bottum or bind +attack to mwheel. Bind multiple keys. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Multiple keys can come close, but they are a little more of a hassle then just using a press release script. The mousewheel is crap for pistoling. Your average pistol clip takes 2 full seconds to unload, your average mousewheel stroke lasts maby 1/3 of a second. You rarely get off more then 3 shots at full ROF with the mousewheel bound to attack before your stroke ends and your bullets stop fireing sharp, it's easier to just practice your twitch mucles. Pistol scripts are definately matchable with no scripts, even if you just have mouse1 bound to +attack and no other keys, it is easier and does give you a bit of an edge mastering the pistol whip with a script though. This script is very minorly exploitive, but still is, to that slight degree.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->-3hop
bind multiple keys to jump or use the mwheel<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Agreed compleatly. I personally prefer the mousewheel to any type of script anyways because your timing can be even LESS precise.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->-wiggle
tap strafe keys manuelly, or bind them to mwheel and roll back and forth.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't really know what script you are refering too here... The only wiggle walk script I know of that worked well was the _special one, and that was exploitive because it easily allowed for a greater speed boost via wiggle walking then is humanly possible to achive without the _special wiggle script enabled. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Also for pistoling, you could get a macro or a gamepad, anyways using scripted pistoling can be bad for you too. I find that i waste more ammo on nothing because i clicked too fast.
By wiggle i mean the non-explorit one (non _special). I agree that _special is exploritive but the normal one is just, useless imo it locks you up. Even without the script it is posible to get nearly the same boost, as i said you could bind mwheelup to +left and mwheeldown to +right. By +left and +right i mean strafing.
You can do all of them with the mwheel.
-Pistol script
just press the +attack bottum or bind +attack to mwheel. Bind multiple keys. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Multiple keys can come close, but they are a little more of a hassle then just using a press release script. The mousewheel is crap for pistoling. Your average pistol clip takes 2 full seconds to unload, your average mousewheel stroke lasts maby 1/3 of a second. You rarely get off more then 3 shots at full ROF with the mousewheel bound to attack before your stroke ends and your bullets stop fireing sharp, it's easier to just practice your twitch mucles. Pistol scripts are definately matchable with no scripts, even if you just have mouse1 bound to +attack and no other keys, it is easier and does give you a bit of an edge mastering the pistol whip with a script though. This script is very minorly exploitive, but still is, to that slight degree.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->-3hop
bind multiple keys to jump or use the mwheel<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Agreed compleatly. I personally prefer the mousewheel to any type of script anyways because your timing can be even LESS precise.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->-wiggle
tap strafe keys manuelly, or bind them to mwheel and roll back and forth.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't really know what script you are refering too here... The only wiggle walk script I know of that worked well was the _special one, and that was exploitive because it easily allowed for a greater speed boost via wiggle walking then is humanly possible to achive without the _special wiggle script enabled. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Also for pistoling, you could get a macro or a gamepad, anyways using scripted pistoling can be bad for you too. I find that i waste more ammo on nothing because i clicked too fast.
By wiggle i mean the non-explorit one (non _special). I agree that _special is exploritive but the normal one is just, useless imo it locks you up. Even without the script it is posible to get nearly the same boost, as i said you could bind mwheelup to +left and mwheeldown to +right. By +left and +right i mean strafing. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Agreed. The mousewheel thing wouldn't work well for wiggle walking (since you need to rapidly hammer back and forth, not click one side repeditively then the other), but you generally have more control doing it manually then using a non _special script for it.
The only exception I can imagine is if you were to bind mouse wheel commands to something along the lines of, "+moveleft; wait; +moveright; wait;" (the syntax is probably wrong, I don't really write scripts) and then were to stroke the wheel in game. Theoretically that should give you the rapid back and forth movement achived with a _special wiggle walk script without giving up the control of being able to stop wiggle walking at a moments notice.
You can do all of them with the mwheel.
-Pistol script
just press the +attack bottum or bind +attack to mwheel. Bind multiple keys. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Multiple keys can come close, but they are a little more of a hassle then just using a press release script. The mousewheel is crap for pistoling. Your average pistol clip takes 2 full seconds to unload, your average mousewheel stroke lasts maby 1/3 of a second. You rarely get off more then 3 shots at full ROF with the mousewheel bound to attack before your stroke ends and your bullets stop fireing sharp, it's easier to just practice your twitch mucles. Pistol scripts are definately matchable with no scripts, even if you just have mouse1 bound to +attack and no other keys, it is easier and does give you a bit of an edge mastering the pistol whip with a script though. This script is very minorly exploitive, but still is, to that slight degree.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->-3hop
bind multiple keys to jump or use the mwheel<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Agreed compleatly. I personally prefer the mousewheel to any type of script anyways because your timing can be even LESS precise.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->-wiggle
tap strafe keys manuelly, or bind them to mwheel and roll back and forth.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't really know what script you are refering too here... The only wiggle walk script I know of that worked well was the _special one, and that was exploitive because it easily allowed for a greater speed boost via wiggle walking then is humanly possible to achive without the _special wiggle script enabled. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Also for pistoling, you could get a macro or a gamepad, anyways using scripted pistoling can be bad for you too. I find that i waste more ammo on nothing because i clicked too fast.
By wiggle i mean the non-explorit one (non _special). I agree that _special is exploritive but the normal one is just, useless imo it locks you up. Even without the script it is posible to get nearly the same boost, as i said you could bind mwheelup to +left and mwheeldown to +right. By +left and +right i mean strafing. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Agreed. The mousewheel thing wouldn't work well for wiggle walking (since you need to rapidly hammer back and forth, not click one side repeditively then the other), but you generally have more control doing it manually then using a non _special script for it.
The only exception I can imagine is if you were to bind mouse wheel commands to something along the lines of, "+moveleft; wait; +moveright; wait;" (the syntax is probably wrong, I don't really write scripts) and then were to stroke the wheel in game. Theoretically that should give you the rapid back and forth movement achived with a _special wiggle walk script without giving up the control of being able to stop wiggle walking at a moments notice. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I could make a wiggle walk script that works everytime you roll the scoll, it just wouldn't work on mp_bs 1 scripts.
<!--c1--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>CODE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='CODE'><!--ec1-->
alias +wig "+moveleft; wait; -moveleft"
alias -wig "+moveright; wait; -moveright"
bind mwheelup +wig
bind mwheeldown +wig
<!--c2--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--ec2-->
That should work, though if it dosn't try this one.. more complex
<!--c1--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>CODE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='CODE'><!--ec1-->
alias ml "+moveleft; wait; -moveleft; bind mwheelup mr"
alias mr "+moveright; wait; -moveright; bind mwheelup ml"
alias ml2 "+moveleft; wait; -moveleft; bind mwheeldown mr2"
alias mr2 "+moveright; wait; -moveright; bind mwheeldown ml2"
bind mwheelup ml
bind mwheeldown ml2<!--c2--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--ec2-->
Super Edit:
With the first script i could get the speed of 304 as a basic marine without any weapons.
The second one, didn't work
I'd rather play the game then just sit and watch my computer do it for me. It takes skill to be good without the aid of scripts/programmable devices/increased gamma/exploits/etc. Turn your gamma down, disable your scripts, don't exploit, and play the game the old fashioned way...where <b>you</b> actually play, and don't let the computer play for you.
Let scripters play on scripting servers, and those that have mp_bs 1, just respect their way of playing and try to play *oldschool*
Why the hell not? It's in the f**king game so why should we not be able to use it?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
I'd rather play the game then just sit and watch my computer do it for me. It takes skill to be good without the aid of scripts/programmable devices/increased gamma/exploits/etc. Turn your gamma down, disable your scripts, don't exploit, and play the game the old fashioned way...where <b>you</b> actually play, and don't let the computer play for you.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Okay, and how many euro top clan players actually use scripts? I know for certain that moomin doesn't, and he's one of the top clanners in the UK. How many others are there on the scene who I can't say for certain play without scripts.
Just take it:
scripts != skills
scripts == personal preference
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
Let scripters play on scripting servers, and those that have mp_bs 1, just respect their way of playing and try to play *oldschool*
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Honestly, this is how things should be. I play on mp_bs 1 servers (roflcopter at the irony, mp_BS lol) and I play just as well without scripts as I do with. I just feel more comfortable playing with scripts.
I'd rather play the game then just sit and watch my computer do it for me. It takes skill to be good without the aid of scripts/programmable devices/increased gamma/exploits/etc. Turn your gamma down, disable your scripts, don't exploit, and play the game the old fashioned way...where <b>you</b> actually play, and don't let the computer play for you.
Let scripters play on scripting servers, and those that have mp_bs 1, just respect their way of playing and try to play *oldschool* <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
You don't get it do you?
The game is balanced around bhop, and i would say that it is nearly imposible to bhop with just the space bar bound to +jump.
And what are you talking about about us being "lazy" ?
Have you ever tried a script, no?
Scripts is all about how each of us like to play, as of. We are humans, we're not some robot thinkking the same way, allways. Some players may find it easier to jump with their thumb instead of rolling the mousewheel, is this so hard to understand?
It is all about, HOW you play the game. Why should we play it the way it was made, when it is so easy to customize it?
Scripts came with halflife, why did you think they made scripting in the first place? For people to use it of course.
Why would anyone crack up the gamma to play in an ultra dark map?
The thing about games is that, people play them to have fun. Some of us may not find it fun to be killed by invisible enemies.
In short:
People are not the same, they play the games different ways, why is it so hard to understand.
If mp_bs is on, I know you guys think it is stupid, but at least try to play like the server owners want you to play...without the use of any kind of scripting/programmable aid.
That's all <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->