<!--QuoteBegin-Hannebambel+Mar 14 2005, 09:41 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Hannebambel @ Mar 14 2005, 09:41 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I´ll be glad, if gorges could electrify their RTs too. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Exactly, if you lower the cost of electrify, you need to give the aliens a defense for their res nodes. It is too easy for rines to hold them. Unless you also give alien RT's a defense. Spores?
Edit: I think the whole situation is ballanced as is though.
"The Pole" isnt a turret. My version isnt spammable, its limited to one to two an area, would be upgraded from some sort of area, and would be dropped as a "special weapon," IE it would appear on their backs as a jetpack or heavy armor, and they couldnt pick up JP or heavy armor if they had one, until they planted it, then which they'd go back to a normal marine. Just... dont think of a turret just because its shaped like a pole, christ people. In all that logic a turret factory itself is a turret -- a placeable (anywhere), electricable object.
<!--QuoteBegin-im lost+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (im lost)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> You cannot replace a res node twice for the same cost as electrifying it. Sure, you are spending 45 res either way, but if it is killed and replaced, you don't get res while it isn't up and building. The cost is probably equal from replacing it ONCE, if you react quickly after it goes down.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think that building the RT twice would still give more res flow. Electrification is worthless in holding nodes, and rebuilding a destroyed one not once, but twice, would bring more flow than an electrified node. Because 45 res just cant hold up its own side of the bargin unless its a three times built RT, not an electrified one.
<i>I still like my pole idea.</i> <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
It isn´t so easy to kill an elecRT, as everyone thinks. In theory maybe. But I find it hard to kill them when a rine passes by often, especially if he already has a HS or a JP (Half god). The gorge is effective but as easily countered.
90% of the games I participate in, where rine comms use electrify to secure their RTs are in where rines win. I think ele is fine as it is now.
<!--QuoteBegin-im lost+Mar 15 2005, 01:15 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (im lost @ Mar 15 2005, 01:15 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
Someone mentioned that rt's should be welded when they are significantly damaged, rather than left there or recycled/rebuilt. The problem with welding an rt isn't the cost, it's the time required to get the welder to the res node. It's at least 30 seconds to get to the rt, plus another 15 seconds to weld it, and that's assuming the marine starts from base and has no aliens to distract him, and also that it is an rt close to base. It is impractical, especially in pubs, to expect it to happen like that. You could drop an armory, then use it to drop a welder right there, and in some cases it might be worthwhile (or it could result in everyone humping the armory). <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> At least you can weld your RT. We have to get their to and spend another 10 res to go gorge and heal it. Or pay 20 for gorge and DC, if it´s available.
Someone mentioned that rt's should be welded when they are significantly damaged, rather than left there or recycled/rebuilt. The problem with welding an rt isn't the cost, it's the time required to get the welder to the res node. It's at least 30 seconds to get to the rt, plus another 15 seconds to weld it, and that's assuming the marine starts from base and has no aliens to distract him, and also that it is an rt close to base. It is impractical, especially in pubs, to expect it to happen like that. You could drop an armory, then use it to drop a welder right there, and in some cases it might be worthwhile (or it could result in everyone humping the armory). <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> At least you can weld your RT. We have to get their to and spend another 10 res to go gorge and heal it. Or pay 20 for gorge and DC, if it´s available. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Still costs 5 res for a welder....
ChurchMeatshield grunt-fodder // Has pre-ordered NS2Join Date: 2002-12-31Member: 11646Members, Constellation
It probably takes like a minute to weld an RT from almost dead back to full. I'd say it's more practical to recycle the RT, and by the time the marine gets there, it is recycled and a new one can be dropped.
<!--QuoteBegin-Church+Mar 15 2005, 01:45 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Church @ Mar 15 2005, 01:45 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> It probably takes like a minute to weld an RT from almost dead back to full. I'd say it's more practical to recycle the RT, and by the time the marine gets there, it is recycled and a new one can be dropped. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Actually how is this with recycling. Do comm get full price back, or is the res regain lowered, when aliens still chomp it?
<!--QuoteBegin-Hannebambel+Mar 15 2005, 12:31 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Hannebambel @ Mar 15 2005, 12:31 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> It isn´t so easy to kill an elecRT, as everyone thinks. In theory maybe. But I find it hard to kill them when a rine passes by often, especially if he already has a HS or a JP (Half god). The gorge is effective but as easily countered.
90% of the games I participate in, where rine comms use electrify to secure their RTs are in where rines win. I think ele is fine as it is now. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> That 90% is probably electrified in late game when the marines are winning already, but I find it hard to believe that the aliens would lose (unless they a horrible) to a commander that uses electricity early in the game. Its far too costly.
You should almost never recycle an RT. The res that you'd get during the time it takes to recycle, is worth not recycling it, especially if skulks kill the RT before it recycles fully.
<!--QuoteBegin-Haze+Mar 15 2005, 08:14 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Haze @ Mar 15 2005, 08:14 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> That 90% is probably electrified in late game when the marines are winning already, <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No! Even in early to mid game. And they win. I saw it often enough. Too often!
They often also electrify RTs to secure a nearby built Phase Gate with it. A legitimate, yet annoying tactic.
Avenger X, I agreed with your last post <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Hannebambel+Mar 15 2005, 05:46 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Hannebambel @ Mar 15 2005, 05:46 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I remember the days without electrify, when rines secured their precious RTs with TF and sentries. Not to mention how costy that was. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> This brings up a good point. With RFK, RTs aren't precious anymore. If RTs were your only source of income, then electrification would be used more often to protect that source of income.
If you could elec obs, it would be a nice counter to SC in vents <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If you could elec obs, it would be a nice counter to SC in vents <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> no, i don't quite follow you <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->This brings up a good point. With RFK, RTs aren't precious anymore. If RTs were your only source of income, then electrification would be used more often to protect that source of income. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Router Box+Mar 15 2005, 07:56 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Router Box @ Mar 15 2005, 07:56 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->This brings up a good point. With RFK, RTs aren't precious anymore. If RTs were your only source of income, then electrification would be used more often to protect that source of income. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
O.o also... no. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> It's not a suggestion, it's just an observation.
Electification is only useful against skulks, hive1 gorges, and lerks. By the time you get enough res for electrification to be useful, the aliens have fades and onoses, which makes electrification worthless.
Personally, if you want electrification to be useful, I'd increase marine starting res by about 25 (someone suggested this to help the balance problems) and decrease electification cost to 20, decreasing the time it takes to research, and removing the TF requirement. That way, you'd have enough res to consider using electrification, so you could take a far away res tower early in the game (say, Cargo on ns_tanith) and keep it secure for the first several minutes, with a little marine backup.
SinSpawnHarbinger of SufferingJoin Date: 2002-11-12Member: 8359Members
I only read the first post so...
I do agree that it is quite costly to get, but it its quite powerful early game.
Random suggestions would be like: -
Instead of having to upgrade each RT at 30 res, there would be some sort of higher upgrade i.e. like Armory upgrade, then you can start to elect RTs at 10-15 res per RT after you get the main upgrade at 40 res from a armory or something.
<!--QuoteBegin-UKchaos+Mar 15 2005, 08:46 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (UKchaos @ Mar 15 2005, 08:46 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> If you could elec obs, it would be a nice counter to SC in vents <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> If I recall, in a certain version of 2.0, this was possible...although not intentional...
Or.....we could leave electricity as the situationally-powerful-but-on-the-whole-too-expensive-for-its-own-good upgrade that it is now, and not worry that the static defense upgrades aren't being used as much as shotties and other weapons/upgrades that enhance the player-on-player aspect of the game. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
In clanmatches i've seen elec in use of defending pg:s at very vulnerable places like near completed hive. It gives lot of time to get rts at the same time if u need only 2hmg and 2elec tf to defend pg.
Elec is expensive on purpose i think. I usually use it against mc because skulks get nowdays really deadly with cele and silence so team usually gets killed by 'em without hmgs. Of course all depends on situation and the amount of res towers ya got but i use 'em and with good use it's more deadlier than turrets.
<!--QuoteBegin-Church+Mar 15 2005, 08:45 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Church @ Mar 15 2005, 08:45 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> It probably takes like a minute to weld an RT from almost dead back to full. I'd say it's more practical to recycle the RT, and by the time the marine gets there, it is recycled and a new one can be dropped. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Fyi by the time u recycle and that u lost res (is it 12 or 7 for recycle rt?) where as that minute u gain 15 res back... The 1 thing u are all leaving outa the equation is ur marines. It isnt simple enough to tell a pub marine go there and they go... no no no u have to spam it on the screen or scream into your mic. ANYONE who has ever commed a decent game KNOWS marines dont listen u get like 5 guys that will listne IF u r LUCKY. I really liked the dcrease in time idea maybe 20 seconds and like 15 res to elect tfs and keep rt at 30. I think thats a good idea but meh idk i never used elect till this new version and im not losing to many games at all since this version came out.
Comments
Exactly, if you lower the cost of electrify, you need to give the aliens a defense for their res nodes. It is too easy for rines to hold them. Unless you also give alien RT's a defense. Spores?
Edit: I think the whole situation is ballanced as is though.
<!--QuoteBegin-im lost+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (im lost)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
You cannot replace a res node twice for the same cost as electrifying it. Sure, you are spending 45 res either way, but if it is killed and replaced, you don't get res while it isn't up and building. The cost is probably equal from replacing it ONCE, if you react quickly after it goes down.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think that building the RT twice would still give more res flow. Electrification is worthless in holding nodes, and rebuilding a destroyed one not once, but twice, would bring more flow than an electrified node. Because 45 res just cant hold up its own side of the bargin unless its a three times built RT, not an electrified one.
<i>I still like my pole idea.</i> <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
90% of the games I participate in, where rine comms use electrify to secure their RTs are in where rines win.
I think ele is fine as it is now.
Someone mentioned that rt's should be welded when they are significantly damaged, rather than left there or recycled/rebuilt. The problem with welding an rt isn't the cost, it's the time required to get the welder to the res node. It's at least 30 seconds to get to the rt, plus another 15 seconds to weld it, and that's assuming the marine starts from base and has no aliens to distract him, and also that it is an rt close to base. It is impractical, especially in pubs, to expect it to happen like that. You could drop an armory, then use it to drop a welder right there, and in some cases it might be worthwhile (or it could result in everyone humping the armory). <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
At least you can weld your RT. We have to get their to and spend another 10 res to go gorge and heal it. Or pay 20 for gorge and DC, if it´s available.
Someone mentioned that rt's should be welded when they are significantly damaged, rather than left there or recycled/rebuilt. The problem with welding an rt isn't the cost, it's the time required to get the welder to the res node. It's at least 30 seconds to get to the rt, plus another 15 seconds to weld it, and that's assuming the marine starts from base and has no aliens to distract him, and also that it is an rt close to base. It is impractical, especially in pubs, to expect it to happen like that. You could drop an armory, then use it to drop a welder right there, and in some cases it might be worthwhile (or it could result in everyone humping the armory). <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
At least you can weld your RT. We have to get their to and spend another 10 res to go gorge and heal it. Or pay 20 for gorge and DC, if it´s available. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Still costs 5 res for a welder....
Actually how is this with recycling. Do comm get full price back, or is the res regain lowered, when aliens still chomp it?
90% of the games I participate in, where rine comms use electrify to secure their RTs are in where rines win.
I think ele is fine as it is now. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
That 90% is probably electrified in late game when the marines are winning already, but I find it hard to believe that the aliens would lose (unless they a horrible) to a commander that uses electricity early in the game. Its far too costly.
That 90% is probably electrified in late game when the marines are winning already, <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No! Even in early to mid game. And they win. I saw it often enough.
Too often!
They often also electrify RTs to secure a nearby built Phase Gate with it.
A legitimate, yet annoying tactic.
Doomie, your last two posts are brilliance.
with TF and sentries. Not to mention how costy that was.
with TF and sentries. Not to mention how costy that was. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
This brings up a good point. With RFK, RTs aren't precious anymore. If RTs were your only source of income, then electrification would be used more often to protect that source of income.
<!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> no, i don't quite follow you <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->This brings up a good point. With RFK, RTs aren't precious anymore. If RTs were your only source of income, then electrification would be used more often to protect that source of income. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
O.o also... no.
O.o also... no. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's not a suggestion, it's just an observation.
Electification is only useful against skulks, hive1 gorges, and lerks. By the time you get enough res for electrification to be useful, the aliens have fades and onoses, which makes electrification worthless.
Personally, if you want electrification to be useful, I'd increase marine starting res by about 25 (someone suggested this to help the balance problems) and decrease electification cost to 20, decreasing the time it takes to research, and removing the TF requirement. That way, you'd have enough res to consider using electrification, so you could take a far away res tower early in the game (say, Cargo on ns_tanith) and keep it secure for the first several minutes, with a little marine backup.
I do agree that it is quite costly to get, but it its quite powerful early game.
Random suggestions would be like: -
Instead of having to upgrade each RT at 30 res, there would be some sort of higher upgrade i.e. like Armory upgrade, then you can start to elect RTs at 10-15 res per RT after you get the main upgrade at 40 res from a armory or something.
<!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> no, i don't quite follow you <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
How do you counter SC in vents then?
If I recall, in a certain version of 2.0, this was possible...although not intentional...
Elec is expensive on purpose i think. I usually use it against mc because skulks get nowdays really deadly with cele and silence so team usually gets killed by 'em without hmgs. Of course all depends on situation and the amount of res towers ya got but i use 'em and with good use it's more deadlier than turrets.
Handgrenades?
Im not convinced.
GL maybe, but those come too late.
Fyi by the time u recycle and that u lost res (is it 12 or 7 for recycle rt?) where as that minute u gain 15 res back... The 1 thing u are all leaving outa the equation is ur marines. It isnt simple enough to tell a pub marine go there and they go... no no no u have to spam it on the screen or scream into your mic. ANYONE who has ever commed a decent game KNOWS marines dont listen u get like 5 guys that will listne IF u r LUCKY. I really liked the dcrease in time idea maybe 20 seconds and like 15 res to elect tfs and keep rt at 30. I think thats a good idea but meh idk i never used elect till this new version and im not losing to many games at all since this version came out.