The simple fact of the matter is that all the crap players join the marine team, because they can't play aliens for sh1t and they are used to running around with a gun in the majority of other games.. and the good players join the alien team because they are intelligent people who are actually bothered to learn the intricacies of the game.
This often results in marines losing simply because they are idiots who dont know what to do any don't follow the commander's instrtuctions.
There is also the issue of marines losing because they jsut have a newbie commander. I have seen a LOT of marine teams go down in flames simply becuase thier commander is an idiot.
I think the game is balanced pretty well. People complain about unbalanced gameplay, but it simply comes down to this..
ive played since this mod came out and other then turret limits i dont really see a balance issue. ive played both sides and as ive seen it the skill of the players is what wins the game. like marines, if we have a good commander i dont remember ever losing a game. aliens, if we work together, 1 gorge takes resources while skulks keep marines occupied we would almost always win. what i think is the worst is when the teams are 8 marines and 4 aliens and none of the marines will switch. they should add a forced even team thing so that when teams are uneven it should say so on screen and if no one switches then it should randomly take a person from the marines and put them with aliens. (or vice verca) basically whichever team has the better teamwork almost always wins
Oh, there are plenty of bad alien players too. When it's 9 marines against 7 aliens, early in the game, and you see that you're the only one on your team who hasn't morphed to gorge or lerk, and nobody really cares about that base the marines are building right next to your only hive, then you do start to worry a bit.
I get so tired with people saying 9 marines vs 7 aliens is unfair.
everybody tends to forget that the marines lose one player due to CC. So, its 8 vs 7, which is as fair as it can get. Marines should always be one more.
but its demoralizing when the others are more than u, even if you dont notice it more than on the scoreboard.
the tougher the resistance, the better a player u become. I WANT harder games, thats how I learn.
Yes, but the commander drops the ever so fun things like HMGs, turrets, and HA. I think he basically counts even if he is just sitting in a chair somewhere. He still plays a vital role in the team.
Yesterday, I played a marine team with a very good commander. He knew exactly what he was doing. When I first joined, we had 2 hives. Then we had 1. There were HA/HMG marines everywhere. Both teams (the majority of players.) knew what they were doing. The marines ended up winning in the end. It was down to 1 skulk that it took them awhile to find.
The 2nd game we played, they had the same commander for almost the entire game. The aliens won that time. And yes, it was the same thing.. HA/HMG squads of destruction. But they didn't really last long against 3 skulks chomping away at them, regardless if they killed all 3. Eventually some Fade would come and destroy him via hit and runs or meleeing him to death if he was weak enough. The guy used waypoints, teleporters, and everything else. He took the computer core hive quite often (I think twice) and we had to rebuild it, twice. We had 1 Gorge most of the time too. When the commander had to leave, the marines were already boxed in. It was slow, but we managed to pretty much push them back to the main base. After that, in came the Xenociding skulks and Onos.. We won the 2nd game. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Oh yes, did I mention he used seige cannons on the Computer Core hive? <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> And yes, it did attract quite a bit of people.. namely a mad Xenociding skulk and an Onos <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->. It was only a small outpost with one Heavy Armorerd marine with an HMG and a couple of turrets. And I'm sure he lost quite a bit of armor after I xenocided him twice, then the Onos came in a bit later and mopped everything up.
I would have to say that game was the most competitive one I've played yet..
I believe it is Balanced. I must have bad luck because the majority of the time, I find on joining a server that the numbers are in the Marines favor, maybee 60% of the time a couple extra marines and aliens dropping because they are losing, sticking through the initial joining of losing round always bites but I do it anyway. Aliens can have a bad time just like Marines if out of 5 players 3 are gorges, just like having a bad commander. I get on servers and ask what hive are we working on? And do the Marines have a base set up in a hive, I use voicecomm sparingly, then type messages, some servers you get replies some none, this alone can make you or break you. Communication and Team Cohesion. The disparity is in the players themselves, Aliens could have 5 people vs 8 marines and be winning but how can you tell if the 5 are working as a team and using comm, or just skilled, where the 8 marines have a newb commander and only 3 are obeying orders. Aliens win, same numbers 5 aliens, 3 are gorges 2 are skulking no one is talking , 8 marines , good commander 4 are following orders aliens slayed, same numbers 5 aliens , 4 working as team vs 8 marines good commander, most marines obeying orders becomes an even dragged out marathon game. So how can you ever claim the game is unbalanced without knowing the teams skill, and teamwork level.
Actually having a commander that can drop weapons, armour and health out the sky for you and set waypoints is a huge tactical advantage. Personally i think the aliens deserse some sort of way to organise the team with waypoints that show up on the hive mind. People just dont seem to understand how to use the hive mind anyhow right now. How many times have I said "I need some backup where i am now" and they just go how do i know where u are etc. At the moment aliens are winning more because aliens player have evolved thier skills faster. Most marines still think theyre playing cs and cus theyve got a big gun and some armour that they can own anything that moves and if they dont, the game is unbalanced. Most marines sit at the base screaming "hmg pls" and not doing anything till they get what they want. How many times as an alien have i heard some idiots shouting hmg pls and not using teamspeak i dont know....
Personally, in a few months i think people will be back on these boards complaining how overpowered marines are. Maybe when marines actually try to learn how to win rarther than just complaining because having a hmg doesnt mean they can kill anything that moves the sooner they'll realise the game IS balanced.
Natural selection is not cs, get over it. Work in teams, follow waypoints, and dont **obscenity** turret farm everything, and you'll start winning.
Its so funny the way marines seem to think that making 5000 turrets in one room will achieve them victory. A single fade can take out a room like that given enough time and if he can see the turret factory.
The only thing I think is overpowered is the GL personally, the tactical advantage of being able to shoot a greande that does 180 dmg round a corner out of harms way is simply too big. The aliens have nothing to combat this if the marine is firing close to his own front lines and can retreat into safety in a couple of seconds. Having a GL means offense chambers aren't even worth the ground theyre stuck on. Still, aliens are still winning, and bile bomb is good for getting GL marines, as are celerity upgraded skulks, long as theyre not in HA.... But marines havent changed their thoughts this way. They think they should just be able to walk around with big guns and shoots stuff and it should die and the game is unbalanced because it doesn't. The game is perfectly balanced, accept it, if your losing its because your not good enough, its not the games fault.
Personally I dont think marines have much to complain about, they have just as big advantages over aliens as aliens have over them. The sides are so different which is what makes ns so brilliant.
Marines players just haven't evloved enough as alien players have.
Right now, evolution is favouring the aliens, the weak will die out and the strong survive.
Or maybe the weak will complain, and the strong tell them to shutup and keep playing....
- I have to agree that the Teams are well balanced, it just depends on the Orientation. And a good Comm using Smart Building Deployment is key. I see to many idiot Comm's making Foward Turrets and Leaving the TF Bare. A single Alien can just take down the whole encampment. And people who are complaining about people wanting HMG's and HA, are people who do get annoying. If you have a Surpluss of Resources coming in. Drop some extra equipment in base if you can. I often see Comms with 200+ Resources doing nothing... That pisses me off. Good Comms are hard to find. Its really funny to see, when you join a game. The Aliens are almost 1:2 odds with Marines. And the Score is double for Marines too, but they have No Hive Secured. The aliens just come stomping back cause of the poor Marines.
Also as a Patch, i would like to see Right Click as a Global(all marines) Way-Point Marker. Where you dont have to select all the marines and give them the Way Point. Or, make it just like a RTS if you can, and have the ability to set Parties (1-5 Keys). Makes micro managment of Marines Easier. You should also be able to hotkey(6-0 Keys) locations for quick access.
And dont say Comm doesnt count as a Player. Having the ability to drop Ammo, Health, Weapons, Armour and Buildings is valuable. And 1 Comm compared to 2-3 Gorges easily balances that out IMO. And if Comm doesnt count, neither should Gorges (just a rebuttle). -
ThansalThe New ScumJoin Date: 2002-08-22Member: 1215Members, Constellation
edited November 2002
/me pats mark, god I clike that last line
ok here is the deal:
1) yes there is an imbalance, but it is mostly player incompitance/competance
see, remember back in 1.00 when marines ALWAYS won due to teams that were 4 on 8 if not worse?
well those 4 players, they learned something, primarily how aliens work, and yah know what those 8 ppl learned? TURRET FARMING (wich no longer works <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->)
so I think there are more COMPETENT aliens then there are good marines (especialy commanders)
just to show you something:
1) a commie drops a second CC second thing in game, the marines are screwed (no enough RPs to expand)
commie takes to long to start expanding (second hive and ya;lls are screwed)
commie drops 2 of ANYTHING and marines are screwed
I was in a game(I think Tanisth, the one with the weldable satalight)
commis is doing ok, he wasn't defending the back of the TF, but I was so it was decent
some of my mates push out and take a hive, requesting a node and some turrets, well our commie proceades to ignore them and build 2 observatories next to each other
well her gets kicked, now another idiot gets it, well he sits there for a min doing nothing (101 RPs and growing) so we boot him
I get it, scoot over to my 2 marines at the hive, heal em, give em a node, and a TF and a few turrets, scoot back and reproces that second observatory (every RP help)
well at this point I relise I just screwd over my marines b/c I had to leave (oops)
you see, there are all of these tools who just waste RPs and then leave/get kicked however by then a resourcefull alien already has the CC at 1/2 HP (ats me <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->)
basicaly, it is alot b/c commies are stupid, and marines try to rambo it (trust me, it aint gona work boys)
as a note to commies, if you have some rambos, order the marines you like to stand still and drop equip RIGHt on them so the rambos are stuck trying to LMG an onos while your death squad kills it with HMGs
basicaly, aliens players have learend how to play, and not enough marines have
nuff said
[edit] /me forgot
ok your commie dosn't count? then neither do our gorges, ok so now you out number us 10-7or6 instead of 11-9
a good commie ussing health on his marines is even better then 2 gorges
coilAmateur pirate. Professional monkey. All pance.Join Date: 2002-04-12Member: 424Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
NS is a teamplay game, and is balanced as such. The balance changes in 1.01 (which were in the aliens' favor) were a result of Flayra's watching several clan matches, in which he saw that a coordinated marine team was too strong for the aliens. Thus, the aliens' primary mid-game attacker - the Fade - was improved to make the mid and late game more balanced.
Notice that there were next to no balance changes in 1.02. The only real ones were *fixes* (e.g. marine armor) or re-implimentations of code that had been planned but didn't work right for some reason (e.g. DCs only healing 3 targets - the original idea was that they stacked to 3, then stopped).
I suggest you do what Flayra did - watch a clan match or two. <a href='http://www.vu.union.edu/~torresj/files/demos/' target='_blank'>Here</a> are a few. You'll see that proper tactics lead to a fairly evenly matched game on either side of the table.
Listen to coil. I watched those TAU vs EC matches and learned a TON about Marine and Alien tactics. Demo's can really help you out if you aren't sure about your skills in a game.
The only balance issue I see at all in this game is the people who play it. Marines NEED to work together, and if they dont -- aliens win. Simple. Marines need a <i>decent</i> commander at least, and if they dont have him -- aliens win. You can't just expect the commander to lay down 20 Heavy Armor's and 20 HMG's with one resource node, and then to go out and slaughter Aliens as if you were invincible.
Follow your waypoints, stick together, and hey, you might win. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
I seen marines winning 70% because of sheer numbers. I have no idea what you are talking about. So far the game is very balanced and there are reasonable requests on both sides.
this game is NOT that unbalanced! every time I play, marines almost NEVER play in teams. they just run around solo and try to kill stuff on their own and get owned of course. every time I have to clean some pathetic marine who sneaked up on our hive and is trying to kill it solo or is trying to secure resource points alone! do you think they learn out of that? no. they try it over and over again. you say aliens are overpowered? marines are simply put mostly idiots who dont follow orders, give a crap on teamplay and think this is just another 3D shooter. also commanders are simply put pretty stupid most of the time. they place their structures so they can be destroyed too easily, dont make good teams etc etc. EVERYTIME marines did REAL teamplay, they have always won over even the best alien team Ive seen so far. so stop whining and play how this game is meant to be played!!!! this is no other freaking CS!!!! if you cant play with tactics you SHOULDNT EVEN PLAY THIS GAME! go back to your wank CS. get it right in your head already: THIS IS NO STUPID TYPICAL 3D SHOOTER! Im really getting sick of you newbies who think they can own right from the beginning...
<!--QuoteBegin--Obsidion+Nov 17 2002, 10:17 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Obsidion @ Nov 17 2002, 10:17 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->It's a known fact that now the Marine team are being completely swamped by Aliens in matches now. And that most players play on the Alien side, than Marines, due to the Aliens obvious advantages over Marines. I can live with that, I can live with the Aliens obvious unbalances over Marines. But what bothers me the most, is that players that strictly play Alien, have the nerve to want more restrictions put on Marines. It's not enough that Aliens already win 8 games out of 10. They want turret restrictions, siege cannon restrictions, armor restrictions, gun restrictions, what's next, maybe we should just have the Marines gun around with knives, and no armor? I will play in games where the Marine team will rarely win, and when they do, every Alien player is ready to complain, and leave the game. It's sickening. Please Devs, do not listen to these children, who want things their way. Keep the game as it is, or even put more restrictions on the Aliens, if not, do not put MORE on Marines. You will ruin a mod that's probably one of the best I've ever seen in Half-life in years, next to CS. If you listen to these people who whine, because they lost 1 match, instead of their constant wins, you will do more harm to the game than good.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> So, you bash people with thier own opinions, saying that they whine about Marines being too strong, then you turn round and do <b>exactly the same</b>, and start going on about making the Aliens less powerful.
The phrase 'pot calling the kettle black' springs to mind...
<!--QuoteBegin--Cool Hand+Nov 17 2002, 07:43 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cool Hand @ Nov 17 2002, 07:43 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->this game is NOT that unbalanced! every time I play, marines almost NEVER play in teams. they just run around solo and try to kill stuff on their own and get owned of course. every time I have to clean some pathetic marine who sneaked up on our hive and is trying to kill it solo or is trying to secure resource points alone! do you think they learn out of that? no. they try it over and over again. you say aliens are overpowered? marines are simply put mostly idiots who dont follow orders, give a crap on teamplay and think this is just another 3D shooter. also commanders are simply put pretty stupid most of the time. they place their structures so they can be destroyed too easily, dont make good teams etc etc. EVERYTIME marines did REAL teamplay, they have always won over even the best alien team Ive seen so far. so stop whining and play how this game is meant to be played!!!! this is no other freaking CS!!!! if you cant play with tactics you SHOULDNT EVEN PLAY THIS GAME! go back to your wank CS. get it right in your head already: THIS IS NO STUPID TYPICAL 3D SHOOTER! Im really getting sick of you newbies who think they can own right from the beginning...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> ][ r |337, ][ |)0|\|7 |\|33|) @|\|'/ |-|3|P FR0|\/| 733|\/|-|\/|@73$ !!!!!!!!!!!11111111111111111!!!!!!1111
Translation:
I r elite, I don't need any help from teem-mates !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111111111111!!!!!!!!111111111111
Human Translation:
Im a total **obscenity**, I spend most of my time playing CS and farting about on my computer. Dont listen to me or I will be forced to play games that you yourself play.
1) Commander is like a "super gorge" who you cannot kill, can heal his troops 10x as fast, can scan rooms before you get into them to avoid ambushes, and can be anywhere on the map instantly. It should be obvious how powerful a commander can be. So yes, the commander most certainly does count as a player.
2) Shotgun is my favorite weapon. I would take an SG over an HMG anyday. Making the shottie cheaper would probably push marines too far over. Early skulks would be screwed.
shotties are FINE as it is. if allowed at a reduce price, we'll see marines all hung-ho with these all over the place soon. skulks die almost all of the time when shot in the face with a shottie. its been said many times before, if u let the aliens come near you, thats it. The best way to take skulks down, is a steady aim with the lmg or let them come NEAR you and finish them off with the shot gun.
<!--QuoteBegin--FireWarrior+Nov 17 2002, 05:28 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (FireWarrior @ Nov 17 2002, 05:28 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I may be a bit slow, but who taught you math? 3+6 is not 10, it's 9.
Now this could either be because A. you are lying and are making up this entire thing just to make people agree with you (sounds like a politician doesn't it? <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> ) or B. you are very bad at maths or C. you don't know how to check the posts you make for errors. Which one is it?
As for the discussion currently going on here. The marines need nothing and the aliens need nothing. If you are on a team with good players you have a chance, regardless of what team you are on. It all comes down to who you are playing with and/or against.
The only changes that need to be made is fixing the damage bugs<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's 9 because the 10th player slot was constantly being opened and closed, smart guy. A new player would come in, start playing aliens and notice it was 6 on 4, get frustrated and leave, dropping us back to 6 on 3. net gain to us == nothing.
so as to your choices:
a) Shrug, how can I prove this experience to you? BUT, you can see for yourself -- just pick some pub servers at random, I'm sure you'll have this happen to you as well. God knows it happens at least once a day when I decide to play.
b&c) It was not a math error: see above.
now that the personal insults upon my person are out of the way <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> I tend to agree with you. With balanced teams the Aliens OR the Marines are fully capable of dominating, depending on which side has their **obscenity** together. It's just that when the Aliens are constantly 2+ down, their chances of winning dwindle asymtotically to 0.
And to that other poster in this thread: Sure, the commander isn't toting a HMG and gunning down fades. But do you think the Aliens' gorges are? If so they must be some uber-gorges, because I can kill a gorg with a single burst from an LMG. Gorg == Commander. Both are out of the fight, but are INCREDIBLY important to winning the fight. I don't see how you can contest this.
Starcraft wasn't perfectly balanced on its first public release. Neither was WarCraft 3. Nor was CS, or DoD, or Firearms, or Action Half-Life, or TFC,etc. Most of the games above were heavily playtested before they were released. So why would NS be any different? With a game as complex as NS, I would think that balance would be even harder to achieve.
"everybody tends to forget that the marines lose one player due to CC. So, its 8 vs 7, which is as fair as it can get. Marines should always be one more"[/QUOTE]
you also forget that the aliens have at least 1 builder that doesnt go into combat. its more like 3 or more builders when the game is running for a time!!! so its 7 marines vs 5 aliens or worse! that changes when they get the 3rd hive, but then its over anyway most of the time. the commander is more like a player since he can heal you and give you ammo.... as someone said before... you whining guys always only see your own side.......
Oddly enough, I find the game nearly completely balanced. Although I may not like the fact that HMG weilding marines can take out my fade easily in tight spaces, it keeps the game balanced.
I play on whichever team happens to have less players, and it is nearly always the aliens. I have no idea what you are talking about. Perhaps we join different servers or something, but I have had very few games with less marines.
I disagree that the commander does not count. How exactly would you expand without him? Would you prefer if any marine could build anything, and be an alien destroying machine? Honestly, I have no idea where in the hell anyone would come up with that
I have read through the entire thread. I ahve seen good points and everything.
However. One thing is **obscenity** me off.
G E N E R A L I Z A T I O N S
It seems to be a growing trend to spew out comments like 'marines are stupid cs wanks!11 BLEh!'
For example...Cool Hand, it's pointless to post the same crap that others have been dishing out since the game's beginning. STOP blaming peoples 'newbieness' on Counter-Strike. Everything you said was...obvious. I don't think that regular posters here at this board don't already know that the game takes tactics and isn't Counter-Strike all over again.
I suggest everyone here start drinking a ton of beer even if under age , or get laid it really relieves a ton of stress. Will make the game feel more balanced too. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> Feel free to delete this post.
after thinking about this while reading this topic ive decided i like the balacing, at first i was a little annoyed at how siege turrets could be so difficult to disable.. but after playing in a well co-ordinated alien team today i have decided siege turrets are less of a problem then i first thought, its just a case of taking them down before they do too much damage, i guess this is where the aliens need to be as co-ordinated as marines need to be.
The subliminal messaging would keep things balanced. I agree with that. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Comments
This often results in marines losing simply because they are idiots who dont know what to do any don't follow the commander's instrtuctions.
There is also the issue of marines losing because they jsut have a newbie commander. I have seen a LOT of marine teams go down in flames simply becuase thier commander is an idiot.
I think the game is balanced pretty well. People complain about unbalanced gameplay, but it simply comes down to this..
newbies vs pros.
marines vs aliens.
everybody tends to forget that the marines lose one player due to CC. So, its 8 vs 7, which is as fair as it can get. Marines should always be one more.
but its demoralizing when the others are more than u, even if you dont notice it more than on the scoreboard.
the tougher the resistance, the better a player u become. I WANT harder games, thats how I learn.
Yesterday, I played a marine team with a very good commander. He knew exactly what he was doing. When I first joined, we had 2 hives. Then we had 1. There were HA/HMG marines everywhere. Both teams (the majority of players.) knew what they were doing. The marines ended up winning in the end. It was down to 1 skulk that it took them awhile to find.
The 2nd game we played, they had the same commander for almost the entire game. The aliens won that time. And yes, it was the same thing.. HA/HMG squads of destruction. But they didn't really last long against 3 skulks chomping away at them, regardless if they killed all 3. Eventually some Fade would come and destroy him via hit and runs or meleeing him to death if he was weak enough. The guy used waypoints, teleporters, and everything else. He took the computer core hive quite often (I think twice) and we had to rebuild it, twice. We had 1 Gorge most of the time too. When the commander had to leave, the marines were already boxed in. It was slow, but we managed to pretty much push them back to the main base. After that, in came the Xenociding skulks and Onos.. We won the 2nd game. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Oh yes, did I mention he used seige cannons on the Computer Core hive? <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
And yes, it did attract quite a bit of people.. namely a mad Xenociding skulk and an Onos <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->. It was only a small outpost with one Heavy Armorerd marine with an HMG and a couple of turrets. And I'm sure he lost quite a bit of armor after I xenocided him twice, then the Onos came in a bit later and mopped everything up.
I would have to say that game was the most competitive one I've played yet..
So how can you ever claim the game is unbalanced without knowing the teams skill, and teamwork level.
Personally, in a few months i think people will be back on these boards complaining how overpowered marines are. Maybe when marines actually try to learn how to win rarther than just complaining because having a hmg doesnt mean they can kill anything that moves the sooner they'll realise the game IS balanced.
Natural selection is not cs, get over it. Work in teams, follow waypoints, and dont **obscenity** turret farm everything, and you'll start winning.
Its so funny the way marines seem to think that making 5000 turrets in one room will achieve them victory. A single fade can take out a room like that given enough time and if he can see the turret factory.
The only thing I think is overpowered is the GL personally, the tactical advantage of being able to shoot a greande that does 180 dmg round a corner out of harms way is simply too big. The aliens have nothing to combat this if the marine is firing close to his own front lines and can retreat into safety in a couple of seconds. Having a GL means offense chambers aren't even worth the ground theyre stuck on. Still, aliens are still winning, and bile bomb is good for getting GL marines, as are celerity upgraded skulks, long as theyre not in HA.... But marines havent changed their thoughts this way. They think they should just be able to walk around with big guns and shoots stuff and it should die and the game is unbalanced because it doesn't. The game is perfectly balanced, accept it, if your losing its because your not good enough, its not the games fault.
Personally I dont think marines have much to complain about, they have just as big advantages over aliens as aliens have over them. The sides are so different which is what makes ns so brilliant.
Marines players just haven't evloved enough as alien players have.
Right now, evolution is favouring the aliens, the weak will die out and the strong survive.
Or maybe the weak will complain, and the strong tell them to shutup and keep playing....
Mark
Also as a Patch, i would like to see Right Click as a Global(all marines) Way-Point Marker. Where you dont have to select all the marines and give them the Way Point. Or, make it just like a RTS if you can, and have the ability to set Parties (1-5 Keys). Makes micro managment of Marines Easier. You should also be able to hotkey(6-0 Keys) locations for quick access.
And dont say Comm doesnt count as a Player. Having the ability to drop Ammo, Health, Weapons, Armour and Buildings is valuable. And 1 Comm compared to 2-3 Gorges easily balances that out IMO. And if Comm doesnt count, neither should Gorges (just a rebuttle). -
ok here is the deal:
1) yes there is an imbalance, but it is mostly player incompitance/competance
see, remember back in 1.00 when marines ALWAYS won due to teams that were 4 on 8 if not worse?
well those 4 players, they learned something, primarily how aliens work, and yah know what those 8 ppl learned? TURRET FARMING (wich no longer works <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->)
so I think there are more COMPETENT aliens then there are good marines (especialy commanders)
just to show you something:
1) a commie drops a second CC second thing in game, the marines are screwed (no enough RPs to expand)
commie takes to long to start expanding (second hive and ya;lls are screwed)
commie drops 2 of ANYTHING and marines are screwed
I was in a game(I think Tanisth, the one with the weldable satalight)
commis is doing ok, he wasn't defending the back of the TF, but I was so it was decent
some of my mates push out and take a hive, requesting a node and some turrets, well our commie proceades to ignore them and build 2 observatories next to each other
well her gets kicked, now another idiot gets it, well he sits there for a min doing nothing (101 RPs and growing) so we boot him
I get it, scoot over to my 2 marines at the hive, heal em, give em a node, and a TF and a few turrets, scoot back and reproces that second observatory (every RP help)
well at this point I relise I just screwd over my marines b/c I had to leave (oops)
you see, there are all of these tools who just waste RPs and then leave/get kicked however by then a resourcefull alien already has the CC at 1/2 HP (ats me <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->)
basicaly, it is alot b/c commies are stupid, and marines try to rambo it (trust me, it aint gona work boys)
as a note to commies, if you have some rambos, order the marines you like to stand still and drop equip RIGHt on them so the rambos are stuck trying to LMG an onos while your death squad kills it with HMGs
basicaly, aliens players have learend how to play, and not enough marines have
nuff said
[edit] /me forgot
ok your commie dosn't count? then neither do our gorges, ok so now you out number us 10-7or6 instead of 11-9
a good commie ussing health on his marines is even better then 2 gorges
Notice that there were next to no balance changes in 1.02. The only real ones were *fixes* (e.g. marine armor) or re-implimentations of code that had been planned but didn't work right for some reason (e.g. DCs only healing 3 targets - the original idea was that they stacked to 3, then stopped).
I suggest you do what Flayra did - watch a clan match or two. <a href='http://www.vu.union.edu/~torresj/files/demos/' target='_blank'>Here</a> are a few. You'll see that proper tactics lead to a fairly evenly matched game on either side of the table.
The only balance issue I see at all in this game is the people who play it. Marines NEED to work together, and if they dont -- aliens win. Simple. Marines need a <i>decent</i> commander at least, and if they dont have him -- aliens win. You can't just expect the commander to lay down 20 Heavy Armor's and 20 HMG's with one resource node, and then to go out and slaughter Aliens as if you were invincible.
Follow your waypoints, stick together, and hey, you might win. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
every time I play, marines almost NEVER play in teams. they just run around solo and try to kill stuff on their own and get owned of course. every time I have to clean some pathetic marine who sneaked up on our hive and is trying to kill it solo or is trying to secure resource points alone! do you think they learn out of that? no. they try it over and over again. you say aliens are overpowered? marines are simply put mostly idiots who dont follow orders, give a crap on teamplay and think this is just another 3D shooter. also commanders are simply put pretty stupid most of the time. they place their structures so they can be destroyed too easily, dont make good teams etc etc. EVERYTIME marines did REAL teamplay, they have always won over even the best alien team Ive seen so far.
so stop whining and play how this game is meant to be played!!!! this is no other freaking CS!!!! if you cant play with tactics you SHOULDNT EVEN PLAY THIS GAME! go back to your wank CS.
get it right in your head already: THIS IS NO STUPID TYPICAL 3D SHOOTER!
Im really getting sick of you newbies who think they can own right from the beginning...
but what u said? Amen.
So, you bash people with thier own opinions, saying that they whine about Marines being too strong, then you turn round and do <b>exactly the same</b>, and start going on about making the Aliens less powerful.
The phrase 'pot calling the kettle black' springs to mind...
every time I play, marines almost NEVER play in teams. they just run around solo and try to kill stuff on their own and get owned of course. every time I have to clean some pathetic marine who sneaked up on our hive and is trying to kill it solo or is trying to secure resource points alone! do you think they learn out of that? no. they try it over and over again. you say aliens are overpowered? marines are simply put mostly idiots who dont follow orders, give a crap on teamplay and think this is just another 3D shooter. also commanders are simply put pretty stupid most of the time. they place their structures so they can be destroyed too easily, dont make good teams etc etc. EVERYTIME marines did REAL teamplay, they have always won over even the best alien team Ive seen so far.
so stop whining and play how this game is meant to be played!!!! this is no other freaking CS!!!! if you cant play with tactics you SHOULDNT EVEN PLAY THIS GAME! go back to your wank CS.
get it right in your head already: THIS IS NO STUPID TYPICAL 3D SHOOTER!
Im really getting sick of you newbies who think they can own right from the beginning...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
][ r |337, ][ |)0|\|7 |\|33|) @|\|'/ |-|3|P FR0|\/| 733|\/|-|\/|@73$ !!!!!!!!!!!11111111111111111!!!!!!1111
Translation:
I r elite, I don't need any help from teem-mates !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111111111111!!!!!!!!111111111111
Human Translation:
Im a total **obscenity**, I spend most of my time playing CS and farting about on my computer. Dont listen to me or I will be forced to play games that you yourself play.
1) Commander is like a "super gorge" who you cannot kill, can heal his troops 10x as fast, can scan rooms before you get into them to avoid ambushes, and can be anywhere on the map instantly. It should be obvious how powerful a commander can be. So yes, the commander most certainly does count as a player.
2) Shotgun is my favorite weapon. I would take an SG over an HMG anyday. Making the shottie cheaper would probably push marines too far over. Early skulks would be screwed.
Now this could either be because A. you are lying and are making up this entire thing just to make people agree with you (sounds like a politician doesn't it? <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> ) or B. you are very bad at maths or C. you don't know how to check the posts you make for errors. Which one is it?
As for the discussion currently going on here. The marines need nothing and the aliens need nothing. If you are on a team with good players you have a chance, regardless of what team you are on. It all comes down to who you are playing with and/or against.
The only changes that need to be made is fixing the damage bugs<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's 9 because the 10th player slot was constantly being opened and closed, smart guy. A new player would come in, start playing aliens and notice it was 6 on 4, get frustrated and leave, dropping us back to 6 on 3. net gain to us == nothing.
so as to your choices:
a) Shrug, how can I prove this experience to you? BUT, you can see for yourself -- just pick some pub servers at random, I'm sure you'll have this happen to you as well. God knows it happens at least once a day when I decide to play.
b&c) It was not a math error: see above.
now that the personal insults upon my person are out of the way <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> I tend to agree with you. With balanced teams the Aliens OR the Marines are fully capable of dominating, depending on which side has their **obscenity** together. It's just that when the Aliens are constantly 2+ down, their chances of winning dwindle asymtotically to 0.
And to that other poster in this thread: Sure, the commander isn't toting a HMG and gunning down fades. But do you think the Aliens' gorges are? If so they must be some uber-gorges, because I can kill a gorg with a single burst from an LMG. Gorg == Commander. Both are out of the fight, but are INCREDIBLY important to winning the fight. I don't see how you can contest this.
then tell you commander to get out and fight
the commander is more like a player since he can heal you and give you ammo.... as someone said before... you whining guys always only see your own side.......
I play on whichever team happens to have less players, and it is nearly always the aliens. I have no idea what you are talking about. Perhaps we join different servers or something, but I have had very few games with less marines.
I disagree that the commander does not count. How exactly would you expand without him? Would you prefer if any marine could build anything, and be an alien destroying machine? Honestly, I have no idea where in the hell anyone would come up with that
/ Wheatevo
However. One thing is **obscenity** me off.
G E N E R A L I Z A T I O N S
It seems to be a growing trend to spew out comments like 'marines are stupid cs wanks!11 BLEh!'
For example...Cool Hand, it's pointless to post the same crap that others have been dishing out since the game's beginning. STOP blaming peoples 'newbieness' on Counter-Strike. Everything you said was...obvious. I don't think that regular posters here at this board don't already know that the game takes tactics and isn't Counter-Strike all over again.
so marines either need some kind of bounus or make som kind of sublimeanle message telling everyone 2 work together