Another 3.0 Rant
Swiftspear
Custim tital Join Date: 2003-10-29 Member: 22097Members
Custim tital Join Date: 2003-10-29 Member: 22097Members
<div class="IPBDescription">ala SwiftSpear</div> Ok, so 3.0 has been out for a good half a week, so obviously I am an expert on it by now. Therefore I am going to dump all my opinions just because I can. Don't get me wrong, there are things I belive are wrong with NS that 3.0 didn't fix and didn't highlight either, but those will be mostly ignored for now. What is wrong with 3.0 becomes pretty obvious pretty fast if you play a few good marine games, or look up pretty much any < 18 slotted server's rine/alien win/loss records. Marines are getting pasted to the walls in classic mode gameplay in this build. Period.
Combat mode seems still fairly balanced, still quite dependent on which way the stack goes, but NS mode gameplay rines almost never win unless thier team is sufficiantly skill stacked. The problem IMHO all comes down to resourses. I would fight tooth and nail to keep the changes that were made to the alien res costs and chambers in the game, because they honestly make the game ALOT funner to play as alien, and not just because you win every game. I see aliens using alot more stratigy with chamber placement for both thier upgrade advantages and also thier chamber advantages in 3.0, but I also see marines getting absolutly ponced game after game because they really have no effective antihive stratiges any more.
The problem is multitiered. First of all, the shotgun now sucks. I don't know how it was done, as according to the changelog it should be almost excactly the same, but it isn't, it now sucks against lifeforms. I have seen increadible ammounts of skulks take the first shot from the shotty, and the server I play MC first is by far the most common chamber build, so it isn't just cara. The thing is still great against hives, but it is nearly impossible to get a team of shotties into a hive any more in 3.0, just because they won't be able to mow thier way there through the skulks and lerks. It has come to the point where I acctually would like to see the shotgun doing one more point of damage per shot, just so that the thing doesn't feel violently underpowered any more. The lack of shotgun power has made it much less useable in 3.0, meaning the early fades get free run of the map, and thus marines can't defend thier nozzles, and thus marines are capped to 1 nozzle after 4 minutes, and thus rines lose the game. Annoyingly the only weapon the now effectively counters lifeforms is the HMG, and if you have no nozzles after 4 minutes you aren't going to be able to drop many of those, even if you upgrade your armory right off the bat and forgoe motion tracking, and L0 HMGs still don't pack much of a punch against cara fades, which now, with inate regen and free upgrades, have become extreamly doable, expecially at hive 2.
The second problem is obvious. Seiges are now way too costly to be useful. Its hard to say that reimplimenting the buggy as hell siege damage of B5 would really fix the problem, but the current seiges are useless. If you set up a siege base it will be down within 3 minutes, even if you take down the hive in that time (which is doubtfull with the 3+ gorges that tend to materialize to healspray the thing every time it gets sieged in 3.0) your siege base will still be knocked down, because with superskulks and persistant fades, it is simply impossible to hold a siege base in 3.0, hell, its nearly impossible to lock down a hive, and that thing is WAY less pressured by aliens for its value then a seige base. Without good sieges the marines MUST shotty rush the hive if they want to take it down, and shotty rushes have only become harder to pull off in 3.0 since B5, expecially since the aleins know every hive attempt is GOING to be a shotty rush. You rarely even see the PG go up any more.
So onto the third problem. In B5, if your siegings or shotty rushes didn't work, you cut your losses and JP rushed (or if you had accumulated tonnes of res in a long low cost game you might heavy train). In 3.0 this no longer happens unless marines play an extreamly skilled early game. We have already established that in your common 3.0 game, you lose your res nozzles after about 4 minutes. If you drop HMGs at this point (which is the only thing that prolongs a marine teams existance in 3.0) you have only exaserbated the problem buy dropping one RTs worth of res with every gun. A proto lab and proto upgrades are just too expensive to be realisic in 3.0, so you rarely see a jetpack or a heavy, dispite the fact that they would be REALLY nice to have as marines in the new build. Prettymuch, all the problems intertwine to create a condition where the marines really can't do any damage in the game unless they are extreamly lucky or extreamly skilled. All they can do is drop HMGs and try to last as long as possible. A fairly bleak eventuality.
So, that stuff all pretty much sucks (no offence to the deves, I still feel this build is more progress then it is detrement) so how do we fix it? Well, one thing we DON'T DO UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES is buff motion tracking. Motion tracking is rediculously overpowered in NS ATM, and it counters way to many early lifeform abilities when the fade is the real problem alein in terms of NS gameplay (The onos is just broken, uncontrovertably broken; MT doesn't bug him much, but he is to broken to worry about what MT does to him) The fade is the alien counter to everything (with the possible but still stretched exception of heavy armor) and it is the only life form that motion tracking doens't bother at all. Buffing motion tracking makes the fade stronger and a higher priority, and thus the game more broken.
So what can we do? I think the answer lies in the cost and build time of marine tech in 3.0. The problem with marines right now is not that they are teching to slow because the build progress bars don't move fast enough, it is that they are teching to slow because they have no way to keep enough res to tech faster. Therefore I propose slight tweaks the the cost and build times of marine armor/weapons/upgrades to the point where a commander can afford to equip his team with at very least the new crappy shotguns, and still be able to keep his tech moving, even if it is slowly. Pretty much I prepose that the cost of every upgrade/weapon is decreased (with some exceptions, for instance advanced armory could take an extra boost to discourage HMG rushes in favor of shotguns) and the recearch time of most upgrades or structure improvements be increased (electricity recearch time should not be increased, if anything it should be decreased) I think with enough simple cost/build time tweaks we could finally achive a decent state of balance in NS that allows for both marines AND aliens to escape from hardform builds (HMG rush DMS, Shotty/jp rush) and open up many new stratigies to the game for both teams, while still retaining the balance that has been reached in combat.
Combat mode seems still fairly balanced, still quite dependent on which way the stack goes, but NS mode gameplay rines almost never win unless thier team is sufficiantly skill stacked. The problem IMHO all comes down to resourses. I would fight tooth and nail to keep the changes that were made to the alien res costs and chambers in the game, because they honestly make the game ALOT funner to play as alien, and not just because you win every game. I see aliens using alot more stratigy with chamber placement for both thier upgrade advantages and also thier chamber advantages in 3.0, but I also see marines getting absolutly ponced game after game because they really have no effective antihive stratiges any more.
The problem is multitiered. First of all, the shotgun now sucks. I don't know how it was done, as according to the changelog it should be almost excactly the same, but it isn't, it now sucks against lifeforms. I have seen increadible ammounts of skulks take the first shot from the shotty, and the server I play MC first is by far the most common chamber build, so it isn't just cara. The thing is still great against hives, but it is nearly impossible to get a team of shotties into a hive any more in 3.0, just because they won't be able to mow thier way there through the skulks and lerks. It has come to the point where I acctually would like to see the shotgun doing one more point of damage per shot, just so that the thing doesn't feel violently underpowered any more. The lack of shotgun power has made it much less useable in 3.0, meaning the early fades get free run of the map, and thus marines can't defend thier nozzles, and thus marines are capped to 1 nozzle after 4 minutes, and thus rines lose the game. Annoyingly the only weapon the now effectively counters lifeforms is the HMG, and if you have no nozzles after 4 minutes you aren't going to be able to drop many of those, even if you upgrade your armory right off the bat and forgoe motion tracking, and L0 HMGs still don't pack much of a punch against cara fades, which now, with inate regen and free upgrades, have become extreamly doable, expecially at hive 2.
The second problem is obvious. Seiges are now way too costly to be useful. Its hard to say that reimplimenting the buggy as hell siege damage of B5 would really fix the problem, but the current seiges are useless. If you set up a siege base it will be down within 3 minutes, even if you take down the hive in that time (which is doubtfull with the 3+ gorges that tend to materialize to healspray the thing every time it gets sieged in 3.0) your siege base will still be knocked down, because with superskulks and persistant fades, it is simply impossible to hold a siege base in 3.0, hell, its nearly impossible to lock down a hive, and that thing is WAY less pressured by aliens for its value then a seige base. Without good sieges the marines MUST shotty rush the hive if they want to take it down, and shotty rushes have only become harder to pull off in 3.0 since B5, expecially since the aleins know every hive attempt is GOING to be a shotty rush. You rarely even see the PG go up any more.
So onto the third problem. In B5, if your siegings or shotty rushes didn't work, you cut your losses and JP rushed (or if you had accumulated tonnes of res in a long low cost game you might heavy train). In 3.0 this no longer happens unless marines play an extreamly skilled early game. We have already established that in your common 3.0 game, you lose your res nozzles after about 4 minutes. If you drop HMGs at this point (which is the only thing that prolongs a marine teams existance in 3.0) you have only exaserbated the problem buy dropping one RTs worth of res with every gun. A proto lab and proto upgrades are just too expensive to be realisic in 3.0, so you rarely see a jetpack or a heavy, dispite the fact that they would be REALLY nice to have as marines in the new build. Prettymuch, all the problems intertwine to create a condition where the marines really can't do any damage in the game unless they are extreamly lucky or extreamly skilled. All they can do is drop HMGs and try to last as long as possible. A fairly bleak eventuality.
So, that stuff all pretty much sucks (no offence to the deves, I still feel this build is more progress then it is detrement) so how do we fix it? Well, one thing we DON'T DO UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES is buff motion tracking. Motion tracking is rediculously overpowered in NS ATM, and it counters way to many early lifeform abilities when the fade is the real problem alein in terms of NS gameplay (The onos is just broken, uncontrovertably broken; MT doesn't bug him much, but he is to broken to worry about what MT does to him) The fade is the alien counter to everything (with the possible but still stretched exception of heavy armor) and it is the only life form that motion tracking doens't bother at all. Buffing motion tracking makes the fade stronger and a higher priority, and thus the game more broken.
So what can we do? I think the answer lies in the cost and build time of marine tech in 3.0. The problem with marines right now is not that they are teching to slow because the build progress bars don't move fast enough, it is that they are teching to slow because they have no way to keep enough res to tech faster. Therefore I propose slight tweaks the the cost and build times of marine armor/weapons/upgrades to the point where a commander can afford to equip his team with at very least the new crappy shotguns, and still be able to keep his tech moving, even if it is slowly. Pretty much I prepose that the cost of every upgrade/weapon is decreased (with some exceptions, for instance advanced armory could take an extra boost to discourage HMG rushes in favor of shotguns) and the recearch time of most upgrades or structure improvements be increased (electricity recearch time should not be increased, if anything it should be decreased) I think with enough simple cost/build time tweaks we could finally achive a decent state of balance in NS that allows for both marines AND aliens to escape from hardform builds (HMG rush DMS, Shotty/jp rush) and open up many new stratigies to the game for both teams, while still retaining the balance that has been reached in combat.
Comments
Btw: Let the patch land no idea to come boast here without playing few weeks more.
i think the biggest "problem" with the aliens getting stronger is, that the marines need to adapt their playing style again. the last few beta brought us so much luxury being a marine, i mean even when you played only half your attention on the game you would still win. now, the marines need to give a full 100% attention to the game again, and WORK TOGETHER AS A TEAM, to reach their goal of beating the crap out of the kharaa. that's going back to the 1.0x roots, as so many here requested.
like SLizer said, give this release some time. come back in a week or 4, and judge again. adapt or die...
They are now only good against fades, but not if shot too early.
Shotguns are defensive weapons, useless for rambos, good agaisnt movement first!
From what I've seen, marines refuse to adapt.
A 1337 NS Clanner: "WTH, I only killed 2 skulks before the other 2 got me. This is bs, and must be hax"
Marines could be extrememly effective by using minimal team-work (which extends to maybe getting a weld if you spend 2 minutes spamming your flashlight in the face of another marine) in the betas. This is no longer the case. They have to group up now, and rely heavily on the commander (whose role (quite rightly, IMHO) has extended from upgrading structures with the occasional RT drop, to scouting for his squads, with the use of his ears and the observatory).
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->First of all, the shotgun now sucks<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I suggest you play more games. People set their opinions in stone based on 1 or 2 rounds. I've already had people moan about the craziest things. From "the fade blinks way too fast now" to "the new hitboxes in 3.0 are suck". God forbid those people use their brains (celerity for the fade, perhaps?) or checkout the changelog (b5 hitboxes = 3.0 hitboxes).
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->...the HMG, and if you have no nozzles after 4 minutes you aren't going to be able to drop many of those<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Quitr rightly. That'd be the RTS aspect of NS coming through.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Seiges are now way too costly to be useful<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't think that a weapon that can shoot through walls should have a 100% success rate. Besides, I disagree with you. Setting up a siege changes the marines from offense (shooting the hive theirselves) to defense (defending the siege structures). I'm sure that Chinese dude Sun Tzu would tell us that defending is easier that going on the offense. It's the nature of the beast.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> ...If you drop HMGs at this point you have only exaserbated the problem buy dropping one RTs worth of res with every gun<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Agreed, however this is a choice that the commander has to make. I enjoy the role of commander because I have to think on my feet. If I did the same thing over and over again, round after round, I'd get really bored with NS (which is what happened with me and CS).
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->DON'T DO UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES is buff motion tracking<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Agreed. This upgrade nullifies skulks; although it has to be said it is barely effective against fades and oni.
---
My personal rants against 3.0 is that hand grenades are still utterly useless; and the only time I'd ever research catalysts is if the end-game was in sight and I was swimming in res. I also wouldn't mind seeing a more effective onos.
Also, with many alien teams using SC or MC first......fades are much much more susceptible to getting shotty pwned.
Lastly, a single feature I would like modified: Res electrification not require a turret factory, but increase electrification cost for res nodes +5 (no change to elec turret factory cost).
I'd like to point out that there were several PT's who throughout the process of B6 reported the Shotgun <i>"didn't feel right"</i>, but no confirmed reason or noticeable damage decrease could be found.
So there may be a problem in there, but officially we've never managed to confirm it, and the hardworking coder types can't find one either. It feels different, but all the code says it isn't. If anyone can find reproducable proof of it (I felt it only happened versus moving targets) feel free, and I'll be delighted to submit it, because I agree.
But until you can, at the moment there is no reason why it would be doing less damage at CQB. Let's see how much of a spanner this throws into the debate.
- Shockwave
And most stuff you wrote here only shows you really didn't play all that much.
Aliens got better in early game by free upgrades for skulks.
For skulks only!!!
If you go fade you have to evolve your upgrades again, so no free upgrades for fades.
And i think this is a good thing now early games make a lot more fun for marines and for aliens!
The new shotgun is the same as the old one for me i keep owning skulks and fades with it like i did in the old version. If i want to snipe i use my pistol that's what it is there for.
Sieges underpowered? No hive lockdowns anymore? Are you really playing the same version that just got released?
There had been no changes to stuff like this.
I agree that marines need teamwork now again to get something done in early game, but that's the way it should be!
So far i only got 2 problems with the new version: Lagspikes and crappy server performance. And server gettin flooded with newbs who don't know **** about the game and won't even read the manual "What manual? there had been no manual?!?"
Sometimes i ask myself where they got this mod from..
Give it some time until newbs know how to play the game or just leave to play some cs:s.
So far i have to say GJ on the new version!
They are now only good against fades, but not if shot too early.
Shotguns are defensive weapons, useless for rambos, good agaisnt movement first! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Shotties aren't meant to be sniper weapons matey i mean u pick up a shotgun u dont expect it to really hurt someone 20 - 30 meters away do u?
Its about time shotties lost their ability to be used as a sniper tbh!
They are now only good against fades, but not if shot too early.
Shotguns are defensive weapons, useless for rambos, good agaisnt movement first! <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Shotties aren't meant to be sniper weapons matey i mean u pick up a shotgun u dont expect it to really hurt someone 20 - 30 meters away do u?
Its about time shotties lost their ability to be used as a sniper tbh! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
The problem with this is focus fades. Focus fades MUST be hurt at a distance, they must be stopped to go in at all, or all is futile and you'll all die a horrible death etc. The same applies somewhat for the focus skulks you WILL play against if the aliens have a lerk. The SG is the exact opposit of what is needed. What we have left is a weapon that INVITES the focus khaara to go in close and bite your head off.
They are now only good against fades, but not if shot too early.
Shotguns are defensive weapons, useless for rambos, good agaisnt movement first! <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Shotties aren't meant to be sniper weapons matey i mean u pick up a shotgun u dont expect it to really hurt someone 20 - 30 meters away do u?
Its about time shotties lost their ability to be used as a sniper tbh! <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The problem with this is focus fades. Focus fades MUST be hurt at a distance, they must be stopped to go in at all, or all is futile and you'll all die a horrible death etc. The same applies somewhat for the focus skulks you WILL play against if the aliens have a lerk. The SG is the exact opposit of what is needed. What we have left is a weapon that INVITES the focus khaara to go in close and bite your head off. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hurting fade at distance i believe its called a HMG u sud use it more its meant for hurting things badly short or long distance!
I've played it ever since it got out and what I personally have noticed is this:
The team that COMMUNICATES the best wins, no matter if it is marines or aliens...heck, skill doesn't play as big of a factor even...even I was awed at how excessive teamwork and constant communications made such a difference in this version...
The shotgun issue is greatly resolved as well...no more sniping with it, and yet the shotgun is still insanely lethal but at CLOSE range...a group of marines with HMG's and shotguns works great as well.
Also, heavy armor seems to be back in action and very decent to use now in fact. Jetpackers are still also useful, but that is if marines go for a more agile tactical approach...
Sieges...simply perfect...if a marine team manages to get sieges up now then they deserve to wreck an area down...since aliens don't take blast damage anymore and the cost for sieges are boosted, it's a nice mix here now...khaara have more time to respond to a siege threat, but if they don't coordinate and fail to take the siege out well...fall back then or perhaps retake the area...
Onos...well, this guy doesn't seem to be made of paper anymore...which is good...really good <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Are many more points that I'd like to say, but right now I'm overhappy with the current version...teamwork at it's best <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
congratulations for f_cking up your post with an immature, random insult. its amazing how people start their posts with flames and assaults against a certain group of people, and still expect to be taken seriously.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I suggest you play more games. People set their opinions in stone based on 1 or 2 rounds. I've already had people moan about the craziest things.. .."the new hitboxes in 3.0 are suck".. ..checkout the changelog (b5 hitboxes = 3.0 hitboxes).<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
shotguns are seriously nerfed as of now. fading/lerking is much easier. and yeah, maybe the hitboxes are unchanged but its sure as hell harder to hit skulks that RUN UP TO YOU.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I don't think that a weapon that can shoot through walls should have a 100% success rate. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i think a weapon that requires 70 res to even work properly and another 70 to be able to be defended should be able to deal some damage to the hive as well as to the aliens around it.
I'm not entirely sure how much I mind sensory yet - I thought it would be worse than it has turned out to be in competitive play so far, but its still homogenizing strategy further, and making the obs even more of a super-structure. And again if aliens break into ~3-4 minutes without being devastated, odds are amazingly in their favor.
The only good news is that I've not seen the Shotgun nerf hurt that much, occasionally something seemed a tad weird - but its safe to say those were simple non-reg shots, because it wasn't anywhere close to shotgun maxrange.
my rant allready is about the new cloaking permacloaking whatever it kinda sucks.I thought it was suppsed to be 100%? <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I was hopin the cloak or atleast something for the aliens would be overpowering/overpowered which I am and would be highly for <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
the 3secs ya gotta wait to cloak/recloak is kinda discouraging lol.
With the new cloaking etc,I sense it is going to encourage more scanning which I don't like to the core.I mean why scan if ya can allready see partially cloaked aliens? just lmg,shotty,hmg or gl them so no need for scan lol.
All this I wrote here is for/about NS:Combat.
Now for cloaked structures maybe I can see the reason for scan but not cloaked aliens> For NS:Classic
In beta 5, marines could rambo off more on their own, now they have to stick together. I see no problem with the marines other than failure to adapt to the other team's quasi-tactical freedom.
Strategies will develop. I don't think anyone should post any critiques other than bugs until the game has been out for atleast 3 weeks.
Aliens are exploring variety of chamber options for first hive. This is a good thing, it forces commanders who are conditioned to the D-M-S style of play to adapt a little bit.
Failure to adapt as a marine means more alien wins. Its not that hard.
It just takes time.
I feel no difference in my shotgunning. I still kill as many. or more than I did before.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->What is wrong with 3.0 becomes pretty obvious pretty fast if you play a few good marine games, or look up pretty much any < 18 slotted server's rine/alien win/loss records. Marines are getting pasted to the walls in classic mode gameplay in this build. Period.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What servers do you play on, and how can you generalize the results that you experienced to all servers less than 18 slots. I play on the veteran server (nsarmslab.com) and the marine/alien wins seem to be about 50/50, which to me seems like balance.
Larger game servers seem to be still more marine favored, but not as much.
Fr31ns server seems pretty balanced. So the balance maybe an issue with player skill, not the new version.
This helps aliens more than marines, wait till the lagg settles and new tactics are developed (remember until now countering dc first has been the only tactic used really)
its not as bad as 2.0 lol
They are now only good against fades, but not if shot too early.
Shotguns are defensive weapons, useless for rambos, good agaisnt movement first! <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Shotties aren't meant to be sniper weapons matey i mean u pick up a shotgun u dont expect it to really hurt someone 20 - 30 meters away do u?
Its about time shotties lost their ability to be used as a sniper tbh! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
In real life a shotgun can shoot well over 80 meters. Learn your guns. The TSA, for being such an advanced coorpiration, sure makes inferior weaponry.
However, in the end, the NS team does not exist to make "realisitc" reasons for balancing weapons, they just do it.
We are not going to pull a Firearms and refuse to balance the weapons because they "use the same caliber of ammunition".
And for the record - hit box problems are just a part of hit registry problems, yes they may well be the same hitboxes as b5, but if these people are experiencing problems, perhaps there is something else causing the registry issue. Don't ignoranly push their comment aside, even though they ignorantly said the hitboxes were wrong.
in real life skulks can leap way over 40 meters, please learn your skulks <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
(still want realism in NS?) <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
the thing i like the most in this ver is that DC is no longer the only first chamber worth dropping. no more same scenario every game, it was getting kinda boring.
that's all for now. like some of you said - we have to play the hell out of this ver before we can really judge if it got better or worse.
Agreed. I just think silly logic like "I DONT EXPECT A SHOT GUN TO KILL ME 20 METERS AWAY" isn't exactly a valid counter argument, as that's their warped idea of realism.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't know where you play, but on the servers I play on, now it's always SC first. So, it is the same scenario every time, just with a different chamber.
I have no real problem with this new beta other than the fact that, in a 10v10 ns game, my marines kill fade after fade after fade, and MS is still overwhelmed by a fade rush 8 min. into the game. The fact that Acid Rocket eats through armor like candy doesn't help, either. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
One example I witnessed: starting hive - fusion in ns_tanith, comm drops pg, armory and obs right outside cargo. Shotty rush runs over everything like a Mack truck.
It is difficult for a marine team to beat an alien team of equal skill. Marines have to be extremely aggressive and work together very well, in order to win.