How To Counter Heavy Trains
AvengerX
Join Date: 2004-03-20 Member: 27459Banned
Join Date: 2004-03-20 Member: 27459Banned
<div class="IPBDescription">it can be done</div> When playing on alien team I know that there's nothing I fear more then 5 heavy+HMGers marching to my hive..... its something that can spell doom for many Alien teams but here are a few good ways that with a little team work and some lifeforms you can fight em off.
If you have 3 hives
- Webs can keep em busy and slow them down even if they don't trap them it takes time to spam nades and welders
- a couple of Xeno skulks along with Acid rockets can really soften up Heavys for Oni and fade to rush in and clean up the rest of them
If you have 2 hives
- the onos shouldn't rush in and try to take them all. the onos should use primarly stomp to freeze the heavies, then a bunch of skulks should rush in and try to kill one. of course the skulks will get owned but hopefully you can kill at least 1. keep doing this and avoid having your onos take too much HMG fire and getting killed. hit and runs are harder with the fade, so I'd recomend that fade's blink around the map and use this time when most the marines are together to kill of as many RTs as possible (the rines deffinitly have too much res if they have a heavy train)
If you have 1 hive
- stick your head between your legs and kiss your butt goodbye, its not impossible but extremly hard to counter hev trains with only one hive.
theese are just a few ways I like to counter hev trains that sometimes work for me. any other good ones you guys would like to add.
If you have 3 hives
- Webs can keep em busy and slow them down even if they don't trap them it takes time to spam nades and welders
- a couple of Xeno skulks along with Acid rockets can really soften up Heavys for Oni and fade to rush in and clean up the rest of them
If you have 2 hives
- the onos shouldn't rush in and try to take them all. the onos should use primarly stomp to freeze the heavies, then a bunch of skulks should rush in and try to kill one. of course the skulks will get owned but hopefully you can kill at least 1. keep doing this and avoid having your onos take too much HMG fire and getting killed. hit and runs are harder with the fade, so I'd recomend that fade's blink around the map and use this time when most the marines are together to kill of as many RTs as possible (the rines deffinitly have too much res if they have a heavy train)
If you have 1 hive
- stick your head between your legs and kiss your butt goodbye, its not impossible but extremly hard to counter hev trains with only one hive.
theese are just a few ways I like to counter hev trains that sometimes work for me. any other good ones you guys would like to add.
Comments
Sometimes marines go welder happy once they think the aliens have left.. this is an excellent time to attack them.
Skulks can do surprising damage to HA trains, because they can weave around the players and thus gain some degree of shielding. This is also good on FF servers as marines will end up firing HMGs at each other, which means any alien followup is going to be very successful.
Umbra+Skulks weaving is an excellent variation on the above.
The other beautiful thing about HA is their sheer lack of speed. Since catpacks are rarely seen, a surgical strike on the marine base can cripple the HA advance. Some will return to base, some will push on, and once they split up they can be picked off. A really successful base attack will mean relocation for the rines, which ties up HA as they'll be trying to build a new CC, etc.
Once you take out the upgrade buildings, or marine rts, you can just sit and "bleed out" the marine HA. Remember, once the res is gone, so are the HA.
Heavy trains have no hard counter, besides teamwork. With teamwork, however, you can win easy. Stomp + Umbra + Skulks = GG.
Hive 3 vs. Heavies is really easy. I don't need to tell you how to do it.
Hive 2 is Stomp + Umbra + Skulks or Umbra + Fades + Skulks.
Hive 1. Well, if they've got heavies, and you've got 1 hive, then you've already lost.
Like other people have said, hit their base. Heavies have to spend time welding, they are slow, they may have to build (PG or TF), and they have to hold you off. You can take out their base while they are doing these things.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I'd recomend that fade's blink around the map and use this time when most the marines are together to kill of as many RTs as possible (the rines deffinitly have too much res if they have a heavy train) <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Bad idea. Let a lone skulk/gorge accomplish that task. Fades are the only alien that can get in and get out, without giving the marines RFK. Skulks will die if they go in. They're not going to be able to get out if the marines are half-decent, even with umbra. Onos can devour, but they are very susceptible to blocking, they are really easy to hurt, and devour takes forever to kill a heavy. You NEED umbra against heavies if you plan to use the onos to gore/devour. Fades can blink in, swipe once or twice, blink out, heal for 5 seconds, then do it again. This is even easier if you went SCs, so you can focus.
Don't forget spores if you have MC/Adren support. In all likelihood, there will be one or two LAs with a big gun and a welder.
Stomp until they die!
Bite Bite Bite,
Munch Munch Munch,
Swipe Swipe Swipe,
Gore Gore Gore,
Heavies are no more!
(sing to the tune to Row, Row, Row your boat)
die/run away.
retry on next HA
You then better get some rates.......or some decent enemies <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I agree with necrosis, that striking their base is usually the best option.
A: marchers are extreamly easy to slow down and stall with harrassment from small but nasty creatures such as skulks gorges and lerks, exspecially when they stop to set up sieges, you can't build while your gun is going off nonstop. Stalled heavies = dead hevies because for every second the hevies take to acctually kill a hive is a second that an onos has to potentially digest them and a second that a fade has to take down the armory/protolab at MS.
B: stomp + leapbiters = many many dead heavies in practically no time at all
C: even if the hevies get to the hive, they have to set up at very least a PG base or walking in the hive will be suicide once they all have unloaded thier clips into leapspawners and the hive in general, and without backup they will all be skulk food in notime. HMGs are not the best weapon for taking down hives. And if they DO try to set up a PG base you have tonnes of oppertunity to stall them in a combat induced stuper right outside of your hive. Gorges bile, fades harrass, skulks kamakazi, and pretty soon the reletively simply task of lowering your gun for 45 seconds to put up a TF becomes extreamly difficult to do, just because without all guns blazing and all welders welding, the heavies acctually start to take signifigant damage pretty fast.
Take down those RTs. If they have enough res to redrop equipment everytime someone dies, you're screwed...
Take down those RTs. If they have enough res to redrop equipment everytime someone dies, you're screwed... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
true.
Umbra +skulks and a fade is a cheap and easy counter.
aslong as you can keep the umbra cover aliens should do well against HA.
with 1 hive: make them overconfident, let them walk in the hive, and attack them there with everything you have left, lerks and fades still do much damage when they keep getting healed by hive and energy keeps regenerated by mc's.
Well you probably lose, but it should give you a nice final fight. better to die with a big bang then slowly fade out. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Skulks can do surprising damage to HA trains, because they can weave around the players and thus gain some degree of shielding. This is also good on FF servers as marines will end up firing HMGs at each other, which means any alien followup is going to be very successful.
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Remembers me of game I commed in FF on server. I had hmg`s and bunch of upgrades nicely, but my marines failed to take that lonely satcom hive due they just teared them apart in cargo area. 5 HMG`s shooting one skulk and hitting 70% fellow rines. It was horrid game, happily we ended up getting base ownage by friendly space-cow.
Terror rocked our H-train with a one hive fade by getting them one at a time with precise strikes. It was amazing.
Our alien team had 2 hives up and we were on the verge of being anihalated(sp) by a heavy train. Me and this guy called kebab were the only 2 fades and we made the direct decision to forget about the hive and take down all the marines res. He took one half of the map and i took the other. We got the marines down to one RT. After this our team managed to still hold the hive and we got an onos. We slowly picked off the HA one by one and eventually won the game
Very memorable game that one.....
Exactly. Fades are for containing the marines, and being the main offensive and defensive units. Skulks are for scouting, taking down lone marines, and most importantly, taking down RTs.
To counter heavies, you need to pray if you have one hive. With two hives, its not too bad as you have your third abilities (stomp, leap, umbra, metabolize, and bile bomb) which can become extremely difficult to deal with as a marine. With one hive, well, you're just going to have to think of a way to work around it because at that point in the game, the marines will have plenty of ups and res. Try using the strats mentioned in the above paragraph =)
Okay im an onos and i hear a a building sound outside my hive.. so i go and investigate i see the marine and let him finish building
Then the marine beacons "
"PG PG PG IN FISION!!!!"
then they all come out
meanwile i stomp them and then skulks come!!!
the skulks tear em to shreds while i stomp them <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'><b>Attack somewhere else.</b></span>
In this case, the best defense is definately a good offense.
<u>The weakness of heavy armor is LIMITED MOBILITY.</u> Take advantage of this. They can't respond very quickly to a rampaging fade.
Take down res nodes, run in their base and attack stuff (adv armory is good, pg if you plan on staying a while). Make them beacon or phase back. Then get your butt out of there just as they arrive. Hang around the corner healing, and as soon as they leave go back in and attack. They might hang around a while and weld/rebuild the base. GREAT! They're not attacking the hive any more! Take down another outpost (i.e. double res) or go rt hunting!
Every time you make heavies phase back to base or run back to base, you create confusion. Confusion is the doom of a heavy train. They can't go through the phase in a group so they get split up - 2 heavies are much easier to take on than 5. If they walk, there will be marines leading the pack too much, and there will be stragglers. It's much harder to weld each other when your buddies are spread out everywhere.
<u>The best alien to counter a heavy train is not an onos but a fade </u> Fades are the ultimate guerilla fighters - they can be wherever a heavy train ISN'T just about 100% of the time.
Of course, there might be turret farms EVERYWHERE and you just can't penetrate any of them. Usually a team can't do that AND have a heavy train. If the marine team can, then it's your fault for letting them accumulate this much res - you've probably already lost the game.
<u>Summary: The best counter to heavy train is a very annoying, impossible-to-kill, marauding fade.</u>