Where To Place Structures.
AvengerX
Join Date: 2004-03-20 Member: 27459Banned
Join Date: 2004-03-20 Member: 27459Banned
<div class="IPBDescription">and where of course not to place them</div> If you a begging comm you might not really think much about specifically wear your placing your buildings . in fact you may think very little at all about where you place stuff because you think other stuff is more importent. but let me tell you that base set up can be a critical part of the game.
IPs- the IPs are literally the heart of your marine team, so placing them in the right spots is importent. here are a few rules to follow when placing IPs
1- spread IPs apart so that if a solo skulk is spawn camping your marine start its easier for you to stop him.
2- avoid placing IPs really close to the armory. thats a hive traffic area for marines and often can result in telekills. instead place IPs next to buildings like the Armslab and the Observatory, where only the aliens will be going (in case their trying to attack them) that way you can maybe get some lucky tele-frag kills.
Arms and Proto Labs- the Arms and proto labs are two of the most valuable structures to marines and two of your greatest assest. thats why placing them in the right spots is importent.
1- don't put an armslab right next to your proto lab. it may be easier to check upgrades on both if there really close but instead learn your hotkeys well and keep the seperate, that way splash damage from Acid rockets and Bile Bombs can't effectivly hurt both of them at the same time.
2- smashing them into corners may seem like a good idea but is often not. if an armslab is close to a wall there my be a small spot that a skulk can wedge itself in and not be hit by deffences like turrets and can do a lot of damage to them.
TFs- turret facotries are vital to the offence and deffence of the marine team and are very importent where placed
1- do the the range Vs melee game NS is putting a TF in a long hall way or big room will allways be the most effective place. avoid jaming them in corners where sometimes skulks can get up in.
Turrets - Turrets should be used to a minimal amount, while they are effective when used properly, they are rather boring and make for long drawn out games. but still place them in good spots.
1- remember to Trianglulate your TF, to effectivly cover your TF you need 3 turrets. while it is somewhat possible with just two. it makes for a weak deffense. also while turrets in some places are a pain for aliens, they can also hassle your Marines a lot as well.. avoid clogging up hallways with tons of turrets and sieges. it really gets annoying for your troops
and thats the main jist of advice for when your placing your structures.
IPs- the IPs are literally the heart of your marine team, so placing them in the right spots is importent. here are a few rules to follow when placing IPs
1- spread IPs apart so that if a solo skulk is spawn camping your marine start its easier for you to stop him.
2- avoid placing IPs really close to the armory. thats a hive traffic area for marines and often can result in telekills. instead place IPs next to buildings like the Armslab and the Observatory, where only the aliens will be going (in case their trying to attack them) that way you can maybe get some lucky tele-frag kills.
Arms and Proto Labs- the Arms and proto labs are two of the most valuable structures to marines and two of your greatest assest. thats why placing them in the right spots is importent.
1- don't put an armslab right next to your proto lab. it may be easier to check upgrades on both if there really close but instead learn your hotkeys well and keep the seperate, that way splash damage from Acid rockets and Bile Bombs can't effectivly hurt both of them at the same time.
2- smashing them into corners may seem like a good idea but is often not. if an armslab is close to a wall there my be a small spot that a skulk can wedge itself in and not be hit by deffences like turrets and can do a lot of damage to them.
TFs- turret facotries are vital to the offence and deffence of the marine team and are very importent where placed
1- do the the range Vs melee game NS is putting a TF in a long hall way or big room will allways be the most effective place. avoid jaming them in corners where sometimes skulks can get up in.
Turrets - Turrets should be used to a minimal amount, while they are effective when used properly, they are rather boring and make for long drawn out games. but still place them in good spots.
1- remember to Trianglulate your TF, to effectivly cover your TF you need 3 turrets. while it is somewhat possible with just two. it makes for a weak deffense. also while turrets in some places are a pain for aliens, they can also hassle your Marines a lot as well.. avoid clogging up hallways with tons of turrets and sieges. it really gets annoying for your troops
and thats the main jist of advice for when your placing your structures.
Comments
Place the IP as far away from the comm chair as possible; that way, you can jump out and kill the skulk munching on it. Same for all the other buildings.
Avenger-X, never place the obs or armslab near the IPs. That's retarded, a skulk going for the obs won't have to move much to kill that spawning marine.
Also make sure that when you drop an armory, at least one side of the armory is obstructed. IE putting it against the wall. Smart skulks will take advantage of the armory hitbox and get those crucial bites in and kill the AA.
Fades will rip them open, but your big fear is an adren gorge who can bile the whole lot in one fell swoop.
Second, for emphasis, you REALLY want to watch for blind spots. Its cold comfort if you find out your prize obs or lab has got diced because you left a tiny spot clear. If you MUST lock down hives, be very careful not to leave a blind spot for one alien to take out the tf. Once its gone, most hives can be easily taken back with a bit of manpower.
and how does the stradagy of it being in the corner make it any easier? yes a TF with 2 turrets on it is better then 1.. but a TF in the middle with 5 turrets is better then 3... its not really a hard thing to understand.
and how does the stradagy of it being in the corner make it any easier? yes a TF with 2 turrets on it is better then 1.. but a TF in the middle with 5 turrets is better then 3... its not really a hard thing to understand. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actuly, a TF with 0 turrets around it is best. Turrets are a waste of res and a waste of build time in MOST situations. Actuly a lot of the pointers in your base build are false. The Proto is NOT an important structure to defend when it comes to structure placement. The protolab is the strongest marine base structure and therefore attacked least. An alien team could kill at least two structures in the period of time it takes to kill the proto. Think of it like a comm chair. Who really cares if the aliens attack the CC, it takes FOREVER to kill, same with proto..
The corner is the best location for a structure BY FAR. Why?--because the skulk has an extremely limited bite area. This forces the skulk to face away from the CC, which is cruicial. TF placement is important, not because sentries, but for siege range. A TF is build for one reason, siege. You must find a combination of maxium siege range and lack of blind spots on the TF. Im not talking about blind spots from sentries, more importantly, blind spots from marines. TF and sieges drop fast. A poorly placed siege will do nothing but provide cover for skulks.
NEVER wall an IP or phasegate, this can easily cost you the game.
As far as spreading structures out: EVERYTHING should be spread out. Spread out as far as possible while remaining within optimal LMG/Pistol range.
Your bile bomb suggestion actuly came into play in the Co vs Xen match on veil when a gorge bile rushed out base. Which is almost comical because he managed to get biles off, it was a major choke my the marines (we were significantly behind at that stage anyways).
and how does the stradagy of it being in the corner make it any easier? yes a TF with 2 turrets on it is better then 1.. but a TF in the middle with 5 turrets is better then 3... its not really a hard thing to understand. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actuly, a TF with 0 turrets around it is best. Turrets are a waste of res and a waste of build time in MOST situations. Actuly a lot of the pointers in your base build are false. The Proto is NOT an important structure to defend when it comes to structure placement. The protolab is the strongest marine base structure and therefore attacked least. An alien team could kill at least two structures in the period of time it takes to kill the proto. Think of it like a comm chair. Who really cares if the aliens attack the CC, it takes FOREVER to kill, same with proto..
The corner is the best location for a structure BY FAR. Why?--because the skulk has an extremely limited bite area. This forces the skulk to face away from the CC, which is cruicial. TF placement is important, not because sentries, but for siege range. A TF is build for one reason, siege. You must find a combination of maxium siege range and lack of blind spots on the TF. Im not talking about blind spots from sentries, more importantly, blind spots from marines. TF and sieges drop fast. A poorly placed siege will do nothing but provide cover for skulks.
NEVER wall an IP or phasegate, this can easily cost you the game.
As far as spreading structures out: EVERYTHING should be spread out. Spread out as far as possible while remaining within optimal LMG/Pistol range.
Your bile bomb suggestion actuly came into play in the Co vs Xen match on veil when a gorge bile rushed out base. Which is almost comical because he managed to get biles off, it was a major choke my the marines (we were significantly behind at that stage anyways). <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree with you that Turrets for the most part are a waste. but sometimes in pub servers with certain teams they are required.
I never said to wall a phase gate or a IP
protecting the proto lab is importent. just because something is strong doesn't mean you should just leave it out in the open to be taken out. RTs are really strong, so should we bother deffending them?
and I don't even like sieging that much. I only do it when there's no other option. I'd rather phase gate a hive or just storm it by force then hide behind walls and shoot gravity guns at it.... but thats just my style
about placing things in corners. thats debatable. just a small crack will allow a skulk to get in and chomp at it. but there is the pro of limiting the skulks biting radius.
and since I'm more of a pro-ninja skill comm and not so much a siege comm, that would explain why I'd rather protect my Proto lab and you'd rather not protect it
umm... wow... did you understand me at all? a tf in the corner is MORE EASILY DEFENDED by turrets you place. Same with armslabs, protolabs, w/e.
As an example, I used a tf in the corner and 2 turrets, as compared to a tf in the middle with 3 turrets.
Now I'll type this extra slowly, so you can understand.
a tf and 2 turrets costs 30 res. a tf and 3 turrets costs 40 res.
Yet, I gave examples of how a tf in the corner with only 2 turrets is in fact, a BETTER defence than a tf in the middle with 3 turrets.
Basically, if you plant a tf in the corner, it's BETTER defended for LESS cost.
In your original post you state that the proto is a one of the most important structures to defend. Your example of an rt is in fact in my favor. If a single skulk came into marine start, passed the IP, obs, arms lab, advanced armory, and then started attacking the rt it would be funny as hell. It is the same with a proto.
Siege vs no siege has nothing to do with structure placement or defense.
Im not even sure what your so called 'ninja' style of commanding is. Going into a game planning to win off a ninja phase gate is plain bad commanding. A ninja phase is a rare luxery that some times presents its self by the end of the game.
What the hell is storming a hive then hiding behind walls? You mean your marines actuly go in and shoot the hive, then hide, as if the aliens will not locate them?
You have the completely wrong view on sieging. Sieging is NEVER an 'only' option. Sieging requires the most resources and pure control during the siege. There is ALWAYS an option to storm the hive. They are simply diffrent methods of attacking the hive. Sieging is better is some situations, 'storming' is better in others.
(note in my post I said nothing about sieging being better than weapon assult, I simply stated TF are used for sieges)
Even if you somehow screw up and leave a tiny crack, it's better than just planting it in the middle out in the open. In that case, there's a HUGE blind spot consisting of the whole half of stucture that's not facing the ips. so one predictable spot where the rine can easily go and shoot, or a little ring-around-the armslab which gets the skulk a whole bunch of extra bites.
EDIT:: made a sentence make sense =P
but the proto is still a vital part of your base and I protect mine.
Ips as far away from the cc as possible, so you can protect them without getting jumped.
Buildings against walls and corners. You have to do this so a skulk can't solo your base. If the building is up against a wall, he will be munching while exposed so you can get out and blast him.
Make sure your buildings dont block your line of sight to other buildings. These types of placements will allow skulks to munch while protected.
If you use mines, place them in a square around the building. This will give the skulk a lot more to worry about when eating your structure. Instead of having to worry about just you blasting them, they have to worry about you and your mines.
This is all I can think of at the moment, hope this helps.
The main thing is to never leave weak structures exposed to attack or to allow skulks to pin marines down against a wall while spawning in (IP or phase). It's a simple bit of commander skill (which is intelligence, quick wit, and foresight btw. That's how you measure commander skill, not finger movements and button pressing) that can win or lose games in a heartbeat.
As for the siege/assault issue, both are effective at different times. I personally siege with 1-2 cannons then rush usually, it's a good combo most people can't figure out. Often the rush is more time and cost effective, but difficult to do against hive 2+ or lamed aliens.
right now with the current R4k system if you have agressive marines that keep killing aliens and keep them on the deffense you can justify a small amount of turrets placed in base mid game. just to prevent annoying skulks from taking too much attention from the comm. course if a fade or onos comes into base you'll need to address that. but the turrets are just to prevent low lifeforms from needing too much attention.