I Always Lose As Commander
Ardesco
Join Date: 2002-11-09 Member: 7831Members
Join Date: 2002-11-09 Member: 7831Members
<div class="IPBDescription">And its YOUR FAULT</div> If people have ever played with me being commander before on a server, you'll have known by now that I have never won a single game of NS by myself as commander. Uh huh. Sounds like a tall order, but it's quite true. Having played RTS games for a long time now, Natural Selection's commandering role was easier to get into than I thought. However, I always keep losing games that I command in. I take resources, I always capture the alien's third hive, I even research weapons and give my soldiers weapons and waypoints while keeping my economy tightly balanced. However, every single time I've commandered (on pubs), I've been in control of a team of marines who, for the most part, are mostly incompetent (note the word most. I've had a lot of good players on the marine team, but still have the rest of the team be clueless). And now, for the bulletpoint-like explanations:
<b>Soldier, where in #@$)(@#$*()'s name are you?</b>
When I address you, maggot, I want to know <b>where</b> you are at all times, not simply "Oh I'm here commander. Drop a welder." That does NOT help me when I've put down more than 5 armories in a game! Marines should ALWAYS rely on their voice comms or player voice messages (or bind them...particularly impulse 7-10). Not knowing your specific location and then having your butt kicked drives me CRAZY. Do you want a crazy commander soldier? I thought so!
<b>YELL. A LOT</b>
I am not God! I <i>wish</i> I was God, but I clearly am not. Instead, I am forced to command you piles of )@(#*$)(@#$ in a heaven-sent mission against equally disgusting bags of puss. As a result, I am, for the most part, clueless about your health and well being, the amount of ammo you have on you, what inadequate weapons you have...etc. <b>Let me know what you need!</b> If you want a heavy armor and a grenade launcher, tell me! You know what weapon you're best capable of using, so let the commander know if shotguns are your preferred skulk-killer over an hmg!
<b>Learn to move backwards.</b>
When I give you a waypoint, soldier, you do NOT sit down on the ground at your current position firing every round you have at an army of aliens. When I order you to move BACK, with several verbal communications to move back to a more easily safeguarded position, all the marines I give the waypoint to die. Why? It's because something in their darn CS-wired brains tells them that "I can win! There's no way I'm backing out of the bombsite now!" <b>Retreat is only moving forward in another direction, soldier!</b> Learn to do it quickly when your commander tells you! He may have some plan or idea ("hrrm...seiges here would take out that hive really fast"....or...."Build a teleporter here so that the other half of the team can reinforce this position quickly) that eludes your trigger-happy brains at the moment. If your commander wants you to pull out, DO IT!
<b>Do not be a lone wolf.</b>
This ties in directly to the point above! Are you LISTENING, maggot? Soldiers who wander off in their own die. Why? It's because they have no one to back them up, and when push comes to shove, that alien scumbag's not gonna care if you're packing heat so long as there's nothing behind you to keep your momentum going! Your commander gives you waypoints SPECIFICALLY for this reason: He has a plan, and he wants YOU to stick to it! If you think there's something that should be done ("Hrrm...my pea-brain thinks that seige turrents would be good here..."), <b>Let your commander know!</b> If he agrees, then you've just shown yourself to be slightly above the brainless enemies that you're fighting!
<b>Do not flood the commander</b>
Use some common sense, people! The commander CANNOT give you a grenade launcher when he has one resource node left and ten RP! Don't flood vital communications systems, especially when you are not directly contributing to our victory! Use some common sense when asking for weapons! If you pick up a heavy armor and hmg and then you proceed to die right outside your base, and then you do it AGAIN, don't keep bothering him for equipment! Your commander can almost never remember or keep track of you individually, soldier. So if you prove to be irresponsible, take yourself out of the )@(#$*U@()$# loop! Ask for backup next time, or use some sense and caution next time! Learn from your mistakes....otherwise, you'll be Darwin's lunch next time!
I hope this post has been very informative! The basic goal: Let your commander in on everything he needs to know to keep you alive (if you are working towards helping the team win), and leave all the extraneous @()#$*)($# out of it! Thank you!!!
<b>Soldier, where in #@$)(@#$*()'s name are you?</b>
When I address you, maggot, I want to know <b>where</b> you are at all times, not simply "Oh I'm here commander. Drop a welder." That does NOT help me when I've put down more than 5 armories in a game! Marines should ALWAYS rely on their voice comms or player voice messages (or bind them...particularly impulse 7-10). Not knowing your specific location and then having your butt kicked drives me CRAZY. Do you want a crazy commander soldier? I thought so!
<b>YELL. A LOT</b>
I am not God! I <i>wish</i> I was God, but I clearly am not. Instead, I am forced to command you piles of )@(#*$)(@#$ in a heaven-sent mission against equally disgusting bags of puss. As a result, I am, for the most part, clueless about your health and well being, the amount of ammo you have on you, what inadequate weapons you have...etc. <b>Let me know what you need!</b> If you want a heavy armor and a grenade launcher, tell me! You know what weapon you're best capable of using, so let the commander know if shotguns are your preferred skulk-killer over an hmg!
<b>Learn to move backwards.</b>
When I give you a waypoint, soldier, you do NOT sit down on the ground at your current position firing every round you have at an army of aliens. When I order you to move BACK, with several verbal communications to move back to a more easily safeguarded position, all the marines I give the waypoint to die. Why? It's because something in their darn CS-wired brains tells them that "I can win! There's no way I'm backing out of the bombsite now!" <b>Retreat is only moving forward in another direction, soldier!</b> Learn to do it quickly when your commander tells you! He may have some plan or idea ("hrrm...seiges here would take out that hive really fast"....or...."Build a teleporter here so that the other half of the team can reinforce this position quickly) that eludes your trigger-happy brains at the moment. If your commander wants you to pull out, DO IT!
<b>Do not be a lone wolf.</b>
This ties in directly to the point above! Are you LISTENING, maggot? Soldiers who wander off in their own die. Why? It's because they have no one to back them up, and when push comes to shove, that alien scumbag's not gonna care if you're packing heat so long as there's nothing behind you to keep your momentum going! Your commander gives you waypoints SPECIFICALLY for this reason: He has a plan, and he wants YOU to stick to it! If you think there's something that should be done ("Hrrm...my pea-brain thinks that seige turrents would be good here..."), <b>Let your commander know!</b> If he agrees, then you've just shown yourself to be slightly above the brainless enemies that you're fighting!
<b>Do not flood the commander</b>
Use some common sense, people! The commander CANNOT give you a grenade launcher when he has one resource node left and ten RP! Don't flood vital communications systems, especially when you are not directly contributing to our victory! Use some common sense when asking for weapons! If you pick up a heavy armor and hmg and then you proceed to die right outside your base, and then you do it AGAIN, don't keep bothering him for equipment! Your commander can almost never remember or keep track of you individually, soldier. So if you prove to be irresponsible, take yourself out of the )@(#$*U@()$# loop! Ask for backup next time, or use some sense and caution next time! Learn from your mistakes....otherwise, you'll be Darwin's lunch next time!
I hope this post has been very informative! The basic goal: Let your commander in on everything he needs to know to keep you alive (if you are working towards helping the team win), and leave all the extraneous @()#$*)($# out of it! Thank you!!!
Comments
I was playing a game with a guy who wandered off, right into Eclipse Command, and sat there until I found him.
I dropped some turrets, a node, and a portal there...
He warped back, grabbed some Hvy armor and an HMG, and held that room for the rest of the game, even under a large skulk/Lerk rush. Never said a word, never whined for ammo, just sat there and defended the base.
He must be a Tribes 2 player. Tribes 2 makes the best gamers.
Ha, I was on that server one night where you were bitching and bitching and nobody was listening. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> I got in that welder fight with a fade and skulk and you kept drowning me with medpacks. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Anyways, I know how it is, when half of your team is ignoring you, it's pretty impossible to win, no matter how good you are. Lots of flooding, lots of pointless weapons requests, tons of rambos, that game was hell.
Play under me sometime.
<a href='http://www.serverspy.net' target='_blank'>http://www.serverspy.net</a>
{FNK}Legionnaired]NSF[
Anyways, I was working with a REALLY good group of marines tonight. They actually LISTENED when I told them to back off and build a turrent factory <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo--> . Anyways, the result: I secured both alien hives simultaneously, and the final alien hive was taken down when one of my marines with a shotgun and a jetpack flew up and landed ontop of the alien hive and started shotgunning like mad <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> . It was a very sound victory, and it felt really, really, good, almost as good as <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::sentry::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='turret.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::sentry::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='turret.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='pudgy.gif'><!--endemo--> feels when you're a marine <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> . Anyways, marines can really dominate--they just need a good commander-- they also need good teamwork skills with their commander and teammates.
I think most commanders will get better with time, but it will be harder to change players from the "cs style" mindset until people really start getting the idea.
Also, on ns_nancy, should it be a problem that the far right hive can literally be landed upon via jetpacking and can be shot at with (weapon of choice here) until it dies? offense towers can't really hit a marine who's crouched ontop of a hive this way... maybe the tops of hives should be empty and welled out so that any marines that land ontop of them fall in and die <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> . Just kidding.
Props to those who helped me secure my first real victory (all those others when I just jumped in for the last 1 min of the game doesn't count).
Yeah, I've seen marine have some really good teamwork before, quite rare though. Behaps I'm lucky, I don't have to deal with a CS mindset because I've never played it. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> Also, If the aliens had good gorges they'd just build O and D chambers on top of the hives to keep your jetpackers off. Also, OCs can shoot striaght through a hive, but rarely hit crouched marines because of hitbox issues.
I know it's stupid, but I **NEVER** use Phase Gates other than as traps. Set up one in the middle of a turret field (ringed by turrets with no walking-space between), and another at a forward position. Prevents the aliens from comandeering one and blipping right into our home base, and usually can nail some of the experienced players with the gambit. DOES cost some resources, but it's a good bit.
Next problem... not with the players, but with the commanders. If you're a Comm, do NOT hesitate to log out of your Chair and defend the base if your Marines are somewhere even remotely secure, and your home base is under attack. Especially if it's just ONE Skulk, gnawing away on the Comm Chair... you don't want to haul one of your men back from BFE just to save your sorry rear.. you're the Commander, you'd better have some mettle and be able to go to town with an LMG too. I've won games within the first five minutes because the Commander was too lazy or spineless to hop out and gun me down himself. They lose the Chair, they are combat-ineffective.
In v1.0, I managed (even after the Chair had been destroyed) to win a map. But in v1.01, there is no slack for the Marines. You lose the chair, you're as good as dead. Secure one hive, build a Chair there, build spawn portals. Defend it. If neccessary to distract the Aliens, LET them trash your original Base. You've got one in THEIR Hive, so they can't get it without wiping your team off the map first. No Onos, no Lerk gas-attacks to worry about, no Xenocide or Babblers. Fades are the worst of your problems, and against a strong defense it shouldn't BE too much of a problem.
Also, it may seem backward... one of the best things to do is, as soon as you can afford it, drop HA and a welder. The HA is a support member now.. they keep everyone else in their fireteam alive, don't do much combat themself. But having a portable armor-recharger is *so* worth it, in comparison. Especially with a commander doing the Overwatch, dropping in medpacks to take care of that side. It greatly improves your mortality rate, especially early-on in the game with five (including HA-man) Marines against a teamful of rushing Skulks.
A good thing to have would be a VGUI menu of some sort to allow Commanders to pick based on player-name, instead of having to lasso Ramboers. Also, HOT KEY GROUPS. Hit '1', and it gives you the first. 2, the second; 3, the third; 4, the ENTIRE TEAM. So if you need everyone to drop what they're doing and hightail it *NOW*, it'd be relatively easy to say 'all units converge on this point'.
Sometimes they don't even bother to build up key structures in your base such as sensor and prototype lab etc,... they stand right next to the structure, you click on them and order them to build it and they just run off!! Then you have to jump out of the command console and build it yourself, of course someone else steals the command console then. Usually someone clueless that **obscenity** everything up.
It's as much the marines fault as the commanders that the marines usually lose, probably more the marines fault actually.
this is my forum. there are many like it, but this one is mine.
<!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo-->
no doubt you made an objective assessment of all games and all gamers.
ah well, i dont like it anywyas.. too laggy for me
so i stick to shooting <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
or biting
no doubt you made an objective assessment of all games and all gamers.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
In my gaming experience, tribes 2 offers the best mix of skill, knowledge of the game, and teamwork to play correctly, while still offering individual objectivs for those rambo types.
If you can show me another game that makes a better gamer than tribes 2 does, I'll change my mind. Show me that game. FPS or otherwise.
It's hard to be effective when your comm gives incomplete or vague commands. Often I am told to go to a waypoint, which I do, almost always together with a few other grunts, just to sit there for the next 10 mins no knowing what to do next, ppl get bored and start to stray from the flock getting themselves killed but also weaking the group that moved out to follow orders.
Also a lot of comms actually give good commands and orders and do build outposts and fortifications but get so engrossed in doing so that by the time you have a resource flow going the aliens have all evolved in fades or worse and you're trying to kill hordes of them with your toy LMG.
IMHO, most comms would do good by keeping the grunts busy, or telling them what they're waiting for, and keep the pressure on the aliens. Building outposts and resource posts is good but not at the expense of not upgrading the weapons or armor leaving you heavily outgunned later in the game. Finally, when attacking try to keep the squad together, often after a few encounters the team will start to break apart a bit. Some guys fall behind, some have to respawn and catch up, others move ahead too quickly while the rest is reloading or waiting for a medpack. The best to do then is to set a rendez vous waypoint, have everyone gather there and move from there. Sure the aliens get a breather of maybe 2 mins but it's preferable to offering them your guts on a platter.
I know it's not easy being a comm, marines **obscenity** way too much about how much they want a grenade launcher or how much they -NEED- a jetpack while they know jack **obscenity**. After all we're the stupid grunts whos only job is to get our brains splattered out as wall decoration.