Will Projectile Weapons Prevail?

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Comments

  • ThelightsoldierThelightsoldier Join Date: 2004-09-24 Member: 31904Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-Necrosis+Feb 4 2005, 02:22 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Necrosis @ Feb 4 2005, 02:22 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> All beams are visible on a certain frequency, one merely needs to isolate the frequency. You'd have no chance of hiding.

    Second, I was referring more to plasma weaponry, and plasma is very much visible. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    plasma may very well be very visible, but it is quite different than "beams" of energy.
  • SDJasonSDJason Join Date: 2003-05-29 Member: 16841Members
    Its Quite simple........

    In the future, the earth will be ruled by DAMN DIRTY APES!!

    Or, a more likely story, we will all be dead, ALL of us....

    Whether we consume each other in war, destroy our planet through global warming, or a meteor the size of texas turns us into dinosaurs, i dont believe life on this planet will go on forever.... Most likely even long enough for "beam Weaponry" to prevail

    ~Jason
  • SukitSukit Join Date: 2005-01-08 Member: 33712Members
  • OlljOllj our themepark-stalking nightmare Fade Join Date: 2002-12-12 Member: 10696Members
    Without armory humping NS wont be that much fun.
  • aonomusaonomus Dedicated NS Mastermind (no need for school) Join Date: 2003-11-26 Member: 23605Members, Constellation
    edited February 2005
    Two weapons that might be found in the I&S forum... to make zunni go unsane <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->

    Nanite filled water gun
    Gravitygunomg

    Personally I think that the weapons NS has are just fine, the idea of a primary and secondary weapon will always be around, and the knife... you can't replace *that*.
  • Fog_cartoonsFog_cartoons Join Date: 2003-09-08 Member: 20658Members
    Ok, so projectile weapons may prevail because of the simplicity in comparison to other ideas, but armour, no doubt will get stronger as time passes.

    Kevlar may be the best bullet blocking material in this time, but when stronger substances are created that can stop bullets, an alternative will have to be made to guns, otherwise everyone will be using high powered AWP's and no one wants that.
  • NecrosisNecrosis The Loquacious Sage Join Date: 2003-08-03 Member: 18828Members, Constellation
    Plasma can be put into a beam, just think of it as a big flamethrower.



    Second, I believe anti-materiel flechette rifles already exist for damaging kevlar equipped opponents.
  • mind_shiftmind_shift Join Date: 2004-06-07 Member: 29165Members
    just face it, the only thing that will eliminate us as a species will be ourselves.

    nanobots - bad programming can kill us all
    plasma - same as how bullets kill us all
    some weird gas/light/suicide song thing - they will kill us all.
  • DarkFrostDarkFrost Join Date: 2003-04-03 Member: 15154Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation
    We also use rail gun technology nowadays tbh, and no armour made yet can withstand its impact.
  • XCanXCan Join Date: 2002-11-03 Member: 5904Members, Constellation
    <!--QuoteBegin-DarkFrost+Feb 6 2005, 07:00 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DarkFrost @ Feb 6 2005, 07:00 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> We also use rail gun technology nowadays tbh, and no armour made yet can withstand its impact. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Yah and it takes several hours to charge up the capacitors on the rail gun belonging to nasa. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
  • RushakraRushakra Join Date: 2004-03-25 Member: 27523Members
    edited February 2005
    I think most energy-based weaponry would be easily protected against. Plastic shell + aluminum foil = immunity to lasers (light reflects), lightning (plastic is non-conductive), and microwaves (absorbed/reflected by aluminum). Or ceramic armor, which is very heat resistant and also can withstand bullets. How do you stop bullets? Really thick armor. Maybe we won't have machine guns in the future, however.. but GAUSS. Now that's a weapon.

    And on another note, most plasma isn't. It's a fluid in your blood and it's the fourth state of matter, something heated to 1,000,000,000 degrees CELCIUS, hotter than the fuggin' sun, and only containable in a magnetic field. The other form of plasma we're talking about is just a bunch of show-offy ion crap like you see in those "lightning balls," where you put your hand against the glass globe and everything moves towards it.

    I think Star Wars had the right idea. If I recall correctly, their weapons fire condensed beams of gas that are ignited with a laser shot through a crystal and deliver concussive / burny force on impact.

    Necrosis made several excellent points on page 2 and reminded me of SONIC weapons. Now that's fun technology. One could conceivably explode an item or a person with the correct frequency, or just blow their eardrums and double them over in pain.. or rattle them so badly they're unable to do anything. Imagine taking a looooong aluminum bat and swinging it as hard as possible at another looong, hollow metal rod. The vibrations going through your arms would disable them for a good few seconds and make your hands hurt like the dickens. Ship plating could be rattled off (from the inside atleast, as you can't shoot sound through space.) Then again, if we do come across intelligent life in the future, who's to say they'll hear the same as we do? I imagine such weapons would be rather bulky as well.
  • DarkFrostDarkFrost Join Date: 2003-04-03 Member: 15154Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation
    <!--QuoteBegin-XCan+Feb 6 2005, 12:22 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (XCan @ Feb 6 2005, 12:22 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-DarkFrost+Feb 6 2005, 07:00 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DarkFrost @ Feb 6 2005, 07:00 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> We also use rail gun technology nowadays tbh, and no armour made yet can withstand its impact. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Yah and it takes several hours to charge up the capacitors on the rail gun belonging to nasa. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Yet it only needs to fire once <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
  • xeNixxxeNixx Join Date: 2003-08-09 Member: 19252Members
    Being in the military I think I can give you a good opinion on US weapons technology. If we assume that in time humans have conquered the space race and now vastly explore the known universe then technologies would have already developed but the military has a budget. To equip new soldiers with advanced weaponry or top of the line modifications would not be cost effective, why? Because the military does use the policy of 'keep it simple'. Guns already kill, that was the goal of technologies and thats all they need. Example; the US Army still employs its 50-cal machinegun virtually unmodified from its date it entered service, WW2. Even with the new weapons being produced, used, tested and accepted, the basic M16A2 rifle is still used widely. Only lately have they considered replacing it with the M14A2 rifle, a smaller version of the M16.
    Enlisted soldiers, what you might call a 'grunt', will be the main body of any military and we don't need a laser rifle, or a rifle that explodes its bullets to kill an enemy. There are very advanced weapons to kill a man but we don't need them, so the military sticks with the M16A2 and M14A2 rifles, because they are combat proven. That doesn't necessarily mean we'd be using the M16A2 to fight aliens but its this example that I believe the military would employ as its principles to warfare.
  • RaVeRaVe Join Date: 2003-06-20 Member: 17538Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-xeNixx+Feb 6 2005, 11:46 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (xeNixx @ Feb 6 2005, 11:46 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Being in the military I think I can give you a good opinion on US weapons technology. If we assume that in time humans have conquered the space race and now vastly explore the known universe then technologies would have already developed but the military has a budget. To equip new soldiers with advanced weaponry or top of the line modifications would not be cost effective, why? Because the military does use the policy of 'keep it simple'. Guns already kill, that was the goal of technologies and thats all they need. Example; the US Army still employs its 50-cal machinegun virtually unmodified from its date it entered service, WW2. Even with the new weapons being produced, used, tested and accepted, the basic M16A2 rifle is still used widely. Only lately have they considered replacing it with the M14A2 rifle, a smaller version of the M16.
    Enlisted soldiers, what you might call a 'grunt', will be the main body of any military and we don't need a laser rifle, or a rifle that explodes its bullets to kill an enemy. There are very advanced weapons to kill a man but we don't need them, so the military sticks with the M16A2 and M14A2 rifles, because they are combat proven. That doesn't necessarily mean we'd be using the M16A2 to fight aliens but its this example that I believe the military would employ as its principles to warfare. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    And don't forget those are cheaper, making them fit in the budget even more <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
  • SewlekSewlek The programmer previously known as Schimmel Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16247Members, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, Subnautica Developer
    <!--QuoteBegin-Nemesis Zero+Feb 2 2005, 05:59 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nemesis Zero @ Feb 2 2005, 05:59 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> You know, there have been so called 'shooting clubs', very primitive guns, throughout the high time of the longbow. If humanity goes the way of energy weaponry, which is not as necessarily happening as sci fi would have us believe, projectile weapons will remain en vogue for a long time before the technology is truly mastered. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    how much time was between the invention of a crossbow and rifles?
    and, maybe take as example the industrian age, where people used both, rifles, crossbows and other weapons (dont know the english expressions for it)

    science develope fast nowadays, much faster than in the past, I guess in polynomial or even exponential time.
    So i think steps will get much smaller and new inventions will prove themselfes much faster in the future.

    Nobody can say for sure, but i believe projectile weapons would be "out of date" in the time NS plays.

    But not to forget: Current weapons in NS are much cooler to fire <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
  • N_RecoupN_Recoup Join Date: 2005-01-17 Member: 36126Members
    How about we just keep it the way it is, because lasers are <i>sooooo</i> Flash Gordon? And we don't want cheesy effects now do we....
  • RushakraRushakra Join Date: 2004-03-25 Member: 27523Members
    Yeah, but then we couldn't go..
    "FLASH! Aaah-aaaa~"
  • TrakenTraken Join Date: 2004-11-14 Member: 32797Members
    Can you believe I once watched that whole movie..I just about gouged out my eyes.

    And weren't the chinese playing with explosive powders a long time before guns were invented. So that would make the development of guns take about 1000+ years or so...
  • AjurianAjurian Join Date: 2003-10-18 Member: 21753Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-DarkFrost+Feb 6 2005, 10:29 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DarkFrost @ Feb 6 2005, 10:29 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-XCan+Feb 6 2005, 12:22 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (XCan @ Feb 6 2005, 12:22 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-DarkFrost+Feb 6 2005, 07:00 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DarkFrost @ Feb 6 2005, 07:00 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> We also use rail gun technology nowadays tbh, and no armour made yet can withstand its impact. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Yah and it takes several hours to charge up the capacitors on the rail gun belonging to nasa. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Yet it only needs to fire once <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Yet its the size of a truck (well at least the picture I've seen is) <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
  • DarkFrostDarkFrost Join Date: 2003-04-03 Member: 15154Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation
    <!--QuoteBegin-Ajurian+Feb 7 2005, 01:30 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ajurian @ Feb 7 2005, 01:30 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-DarkFrost+Feb 6 2005, 10:29 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DarkFrost @ Feb 6 2005, 10:29 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-XCan+Feb 6 2005, 12:22 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (XCan @ Feb 6 2005, 12:22 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-DarkFrost+Feb 6 2005, 07:00 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DarkFrost @ Feb 6 2005, 07:00 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> We also use rail gun technology nowadays tbh, and no armour made yet can withstand its impact. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Yah and it takes several hours to charge up the capacitors on the rail gun belonging to nasa. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Yet it only needs to fire once <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Yet its the size of a truck (well at least the picture I've seen is) <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Can you see the enemies faces when they see it? lol "OMG!!!"
  • NecrosisNecrosis The Loquacious Sage Join Date: 2003-08-03 Member: 18828Members, Constellation
    All militaries will be forced to adapt when the time comes.

    Again, anti materiel rifles are being heavily researched to counter kevlar-equipped opponents.


    A note on laser defence - a mirror absorbs some heat while reflecting, which is why the space based laser defence platforms never really worked out - the laser melted. Of course the natural solution is to bend the light through other means, but that means a lot of power involved for negligible gain.

    Secondly, plastic may not conduct, but you would have to coat your entire body AND your weapon in it. That'd be rather impressive. Remember, any bare patch would attract the electricity and that would mean cooked soldier.


    Sonic weaponry is, I believe, currently heavily researched as a means of debilitating but not lethal weaponry. Sonic suppressors instead of water cannon for instance. In fact they currently have a version which can be very accurately targeted by laser.

    Personally I think cold plasma is going to feature heavily in the future, at least until hot plasma is viable.
  • RushakraRushakra Join Date: 2004-03-25 Member: 27523Members
    Yes, the Chinese were screwing around with rockets and black powder long before Europe, but we see who's in charge now (as well as back then), don't we? <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
  • XCanXCan Join Date: 2002-11-03 Member: 5904Members, Constellation
    <!--QuoteBegin-Rushakra+Feb 7 2005, 03:54 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Rushakra @ Feb 7 2005, 03:54 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Yes, the Chinese were screwing around with rockets and black powder long before Europe, but we see who's in charge now (as well as back then), don't we? <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    In charge of what though? In charge of showing off the world how big of a jackass you can be, that would be USA (or at least Bush). In charge of the world economy is much more tricky, considering the growth rate of China.

    About antimatter weapons, today you can't even "produce" more than several grams/year. Antimatter only shows during high speed collisions between atoms, needless to say this is expensive like hell. I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that it is very possible to construct a vechile which could take man to Pluto within a year if they would have enough antimatter.. If antimatter could be produced in such large quantities it would really make travelling to Mars much easier. <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/nerd-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
  • funbagsfunbags Join Date: 2003-06-08 Member: 17099Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-Nemesis Zero+Feb 2 2005, 05:59 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nemesis Zero @ Feb 2 2005, 05:59 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> You know, there have been so called 'shooting clubs', very primitive guns, throughout the high time of the longbow. If humanity goes the way of energy weaponry, which is not as necessarily happening as sci fi would have us believe, projectile weapons will remain en vogue for a long time before the technology is truly mastered. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    The only thing we can get close to now are MASERS, which uses Microwave rays. It's not exactly Geneva convention friendly, and I think projectile weapons are here to stay for quite a long time.


    Projectile weapons are way cheaper to make and maintain. Bullets are only like 5 cents a round.
  • NecrosisNecrosis The Loquacious Sage Join Date: 2003-08-03 Member: 18828Members, Constellation
    Yeah thats the problem with most of the future tech, its all pretty much against the Geneva Convention.
  • Fog_cartoonsFog_cartoons Join Date: 2003-09-08 Member: 20658Members
    So in conclusion to this topic, prejectile weapons will both fail and succeed <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->

    Groovey


    Oh an we also know that railguns are cool
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