Tell Me, Frontiersmen, Duking It Out With Fades?

Immacolata · November 2002

<div class="IPBDescription">With adrenaline and regen - ouch</div> As marine, even when we go in teams, I find even solo fades Bad News. They launch their acrid loads at distance, then dodge into cover. They heal back there, I can tell. When they come back, us marines are still hurting from the last volley, but they not. If we move towards them, they retreat to theri "#¤"#¤&" healing chambers or go melee.

If we got LMG and pistols only, whoa, good bye!

How do you manage to deal with properly upgraded fades? I hate them as marine, love them as kharaa. Are they perhaps too overpowered or are the marines untrained?

FlatlineUTD · November 2002

Personally, I think that they are a bit overpowered. Against marines that know what they're doing, they fall pretty easily.

In another post, I had a story about how we outright annihilated some Fades. It's gotten buried somewhere, so I'll sum it up again here. BTW, I was actually playing in this game, not commanding <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wow.gif'>

A group of 2 or 3 Fades was attacking one of our forward bases. They did the typical acid rocket-retreat-recharge-repeat strategy of base assault. Two of our guys took up a position in the base with LMGs and HA and basically just kept the Fades occupied and added some noise to their hive sight.

Meanwhile, I took another route and ended up outflanking them. I had a jetpack and shotgun. When the Fades took cover behind the wall, I would pop out, cap them in the face, and then retreat again. Since they had been the habit of repeating the attack-cover maneuver for about 3 minutes, they just assumed they were getting hit with some LMG fire and kept at it. They didn't notice my point-blank shottie blasts, I suppose, because I never was attacked by them.

We ended up losing a few turrets (why are static defenses good? They occupy the enemy!), but not the factory, and not a marine.

Immacolata · November 2002

Well good story, but I see a weak point to it that won't cut it for general advice. A solo, flanking marine could very well end up as skulk breakfast, any old alien could be darting through the hallways at the exact same point ...

For a flank like that it would require a marine group that KNOWS the map well, and enough time to get to the ambush point - and skill in order not to get annihilated... Three fades that realize they are about to be flanked could very well turn around and retreat, killing off the flank person - or group.

I am thinking also of this situation: Fades at end of hallway, you at other end. What to do? Must one really get a diversion and then send out a flanking team? PErhaps so, it's good war doctrine but darned tricky to pull off in this game. If the commander doesn't realize the marines must know how to do it themselves.

Oh, and I agree about fades being overpowered. They're vicous when regen+adrenaline upgraded - or even worse with carapace and defense chambers backing them up.

Venmoch · November 2002

Hint Run after them, they can't move as fast as you, use even your knife/welder/sharp implimnet it still hurts!

FlatlineUTD · November 2002

LOL - I knew I forgot to put something in that last post of mine: A POINT.

While I do think the story is pretty good, I totally agree with you that it doesn't work in most cases.

What I've found to be relatively good in dealing with solo Fades is to keep strafing, and keep your distance. Most of em like to use acid rockets unless you're toe-to-toe with them, so unless they're smart and shoot at the floor to get you with splash damage, you can usually duck out of the way of an acid rocket. HMGs are good if you've got them cornered, and GLs are good if they keep ducking out of your direct line of fire. Bouncing a few grenades around the corner will hurt them a bit.

Just make sure you're not going against one solo - you need to have at least 1 guy supporting you.

Paladin-X · November 2002

Never travel alone if you can. Pairs work so much better, double the damage delt in half the time. Two pairs of eyes, so you can see twice as much. As a Fade, picking off people one at a time is great, but if I run into two or three marines, things can get tricky. I agree, Fades are a little overpowered in my opinion, but I kinda like it, makes the marines have to work extra hard.

MithStrifer · November 2002

Fades are overpowered, I was playing yesterday and I was a fade right away. I went 36-1. There way to easy to use, LMGs do like 2 damage against them, a Fade today was standing there, I crouched and emptyed a mag from my LMG then from my pistol, didn't even phase him. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='sad.gif'>

MeltedSnowman · November 2002

Very rarely can I take a fade by myself (everyone else seems to run scared, I'm the only one pursuing it before it can heal.)

Every time I'm like "I hope someone followed me ... c'mon ..."

Nope.

And there's not much time to plan when you spawn and get an acid rocket to the face.

Occasionally they explode into a million pieces and I am happy; but more often than not I'll fall over dead.

CrazedMonkOnaMission · November 2002

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Fades are overpowered, I was playing yesterday and I was a fade right away. I went 36-1. There way to easy to use, LMGs do like 2 damage against them, a Fade today was standing there, I crouched and emptyed a mag from my LMG then from my pistol, didn't even phase him. </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

That is supposed to happen. Fades are higher up on the tech tree, and cost more (44 resources, then 2 for each upgrade). And need 2nd hive.

Your LMG and pistol is free. It is basic technology. If your marine and have the same level of equipment (HMG and armor for instance) it is a fair fight.

Rainman · November 2002

I too think that fades are overpowerful, with some experience on both sides. My biggest beef with them is the splash damage of acid rocket. Not only can they hurt you without actually hitting you, but they can kill several marines in just a couple of shots.

Also, I'm not too sure about the above argument about being higher up the tech tree. Sure, a marine with armor and a HMG could probably take a fade in most cases (like if the fade was dumb enough to face him toe to toe). But I don't think I'm too far off when I say that it probably takes a lot more team effort to get a single marine up to that point than a single alien to a double-upgraded fade.

To be more even, I'd think that it would have to be either a HMG or heavy armor to be even with a fade, but a marine with only one of those things will be no match for a fade. Also there's the point that to upgrade the marine, you have to take the resources from a collective pool shared by the other marines. To upgrade the alien, you just need the resources from that alien. So you upgrade the marine at the expense of expansion, defence, and the other mariens. The upgraded alien comes at the expense of no one but himself. So when that fade runs off and dies, it's not really a detriment to the team. When that marine runs of and dies, he's just cost his team. Especially if the commander was trying to upgrade him to deal with the fades.

Rainman

MithStrifer · November 2002

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Crazed Monk On a Mission @ Nov 15 2002, 04:28 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>That is supposed to happen. Fades are higher up on the tech tree, and cost more (44 resources, then 2 for each upgrade). And need 2nd hive.

Your LMG and pistol is free. It is basic technology. If your marine and have the same level of equipment (HMG and armor for instance) it is a fair fight.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
Not really, people have still have problems with Fade's vs HMG and Heavy Armor 1v1, and when Fade's can just get healed by a Defenisve Chamber, its even harder.

Paladin-X · November 2002

Fades are pretty powerful, but overall the whole game is balanced. I like it the way it is <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'>

Skippy · November 2002

Fades are supposed to be this powerfull, the manual says that they're the main assualt force of the aliens. As for being too powerful, not in my experience. Teamwork wins over a fade any day.

SpaceMarinesGieger · November 2002

I think fades are fine as they are. Ive foudn that what works for me vs them is just to press them. Keep advancing when they expect you to retrea.

Whatever you do just dont fear dying. If you have to hold a postion,,,,,,dont press em. Just DONT DIE SOLDIER.

Bob_the_Alien · November 2002

fades are the equivilent rp and tech wise to HA with HMG marines, I was on a server today and 5 of us went fades and attacked, the reason we annihillated is because the marines never RALLIED! Its a common tactic, an unrallied enemy is a dead enemy scatterd accross the map, unable to beat a united rallied force. We would be getting attacked by 1 HA at a time, and one LA with a HMG at a time, they couldnt kill any of us because they just came as they spawned. Now if they rallied every attack they would of done major damage to us, but they didnt. The point of the story is when you get a HMG and there are 5 fades knocking at your outpost right infront of your base, wait for reinforcements before you loose your shiny gun.

SpaceMarinesGieger · November 2002

I thought we were talking vs 1 fade here. 5 fades is another story.

Da_Sarge · November 2002

I tell ya....Fade's aren't overpowered. I remember a game I had a few hours ago....wow that was tales from the frontlines material.... and me and like 3 other fades with 2 gorge back up with healing spray and a lerk with umbra were pressing for our third hive when a whole crap load of HA HMG marines pop up and start firing like hell. I was the first to get wiped out (I always seem to be the one to die first in thoes kinda situations....conspiracy?!?!) and eventually the rest of em go down to. So a heavily armed group of marines can take on a group of fades plus backup pretty much any day. But if played stratigically right, fade is a b!tch to kill.

Mr_Chewy_Bitums · November 2002

Ok, call me crazy but Fades are shotgun food, their big old bodies tend to take about every pellet. Also, i find it best to just jump like a maniac when you see a fade. 90% of fades are acid rocket users, and if you just jump at them it throws off their aim and just messes with their head. Fades tend to expect you to just return fire, not to rush em like a crazy. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

ekent · November 2002

Fades power comes from the marines overestimating them. 2 or 3 marines could take out a fade if they just would follow him and not let him heal. But marines always stay in the base yelling for health. I constantly take out 3 or 4 marines at base with my acid rocket because they run away from me.

Wildcard · November 2002

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> ((e)kent @ Nov 15 2002, 08:35 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Fades power comes from the marines overestimating them. 2 or 3 marines could take out a fade if they just would follow him and not let him heal. But marines always stay in the base yelling for health. I constantly take out 3 or 4 marines at base with my acid rocket because they run away from me.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
Exactly people are afraid to do suicide runs in spawn gear to get things done....why? you will just respawn and you might actually get something done. letting the fade run and heal then complaining that its overpowered thats just silly.

Shrike3O · November 2002

Yeah... keep in mind, your light armor, LMG marine costs exactly what a skulk does: 0. Why do you complain when something that costs what a suit of heavy armor and a HMG costs kills it?

Hojo · November 2002

I don't find shotguns particularly useful against fades. Today I saw a marine unload five rounds from a meter away into a fade's back( the fade wasn't paying attention). The fade finally fell on the 5th shot. This might not seem like alot, but it's not nearly as effective as some people are claiming.

Skippy · November 2002

The fade probably had lv3 carapace. You can always tell if you're fighting one with carapace or one with regen.

Carapace: duckes it out, not affraid to go HTH

Ragen:Plinkmaster cornerlord.

JRPereira · November 2002

Here's a short story for you. I was playing a game and the marines were losing pretty bad, but at the moment there was only one fade attacking us and most of my fellow soldiers were cowering behind the turrets complaining about HMG's and HA. I decided, what the hell, I'm a -free- marine, nobody has to waste 50rp to get me to do anything, so I charged after the fade, guns ablaze, around corners, jumping like mad, and eventually I killed him off. We still lost the game but it was quite a rush.

Moral of the story -> keep the pressure, if they're on the run, don't let them get away. Make them waste more resource points to evolve back into the form you just killed.

Typhon · November 2002

Ok, dont know if i should release this information, but here goes. I play fade mostly, so here is (against my better judgement) a guide to how i play, and how i die. I'm assuming i play roughly the same way as other fades do.

1. I use regen/adren/cloak for upgrades. What does this mean? Most important is that if i escape from you/kill you, the next time you see me i'm back at full everything. I can take out most buildings without having to take a breather, and can launch up to 6 acid rockets in 1 volley. I can also choose my battles. If i feel outnumbered (I base this on number of footsteps i can hear) i will either retreat or cloak and wait.

2. I run when i'm at about 120 hp remaining. I've come to that number based on how much life i will lose running/blinking to the nearest corner under average fire (1 hmg). Once i reach that corner I AM GONE: I survive. I will either cloak or blink even further away, and with regen i'll be back in ~20 seconds.

3. If i kill an expansion, i will wait around for about 20 seconds to see if a new squad comes to rebuild. If they do, i wait until most are occupied with building and then i attack.

4. At range/through complicated areas (non-blinkable) i will use acid rocket while strafing back and forth, slowly closing the distance. I aim at the ground, not at you, hoping that even if you move a bit, the splash will get you. If I hear you (and havent seen me), i will cloak, wait for you to walk by, and then run up behind you and use my melee attack. I <i>prefer</i> to use my melee attack because its harder for you to shoot me when i'm smacking your head around and circle strafing all around you. If i get to melee range and you dont have a HA/HMG buddy, you're pretty much screwed even if you are HA/HMG.

5. The only thing that scares me is groups of HA/HMGs (2 or more), or marines that are very spread out over an area.

6. If we are doing a long range fight and you retreat around a corner to reload <b> i will right up to the corner and cloak and wait for you to pop back out</b>. marines usually assume i'm still hiding behind <i>my</i> corner and start advancing. Then i chop them in the back.

7. If i see a way to kill a TF, i will jump past the turrets, crouch down behind the TF and get to work. If i cannot kill a TF in almost complete safety, i will usually wait until a lerk can umbra me. I prefer to take no damage during a expo killing because i always want to be in top condition if a marine comes by.

So how can you use this information to your advantage?

1. CHASE ME. really thats the most important thing. <b>When i run away its because i'm gonna die soon</b>. People just dont seem to understand that and just let me escape. Take advantage of this by chasing me, firing everything you have at me: lmg, hmg, pistol if need be. Dont stop to reload if any/all your guns are out of ammo. Even when out of ammo, KEEP CHASING ME. If i turn around to shoot back that means i'm running slower, something i really dont want to do. My primary concern is escaping, not getting one more kill.

2. Dodge like mad. I'm trying to hit the ground where you are, but if you strafe far enough/randomly enough i cannot guess where you will be and will end up hitting the ground 5 ft to your left or right. This really annoys me. Similarly, dont stand right next to your buddy thats also shooting me. I can only kill one of you per volley, so if you stand far apart i have to pick which of you to kill, giving the other more time. If you stand together you both die at the same time.

3. Do a scanner sweep of an area where you just lots an expansion. Chances are you'll find me waiting for you in the corner.

4. LISTEN. You have no idea how many kills i got from running up behind someone and they dont turn around until i start smacking them. If you hear the pulsing healing sound it means i'm cloaked near you, and even more important it means i'm not at full life. just spray the room with bullets and find the green splatters. If i'm at full life i can 1v1 anything, but not if im hurt. Also, listen for the squishy footsteps. That means i'm running up behind you. and finally, listen for the 'whoosh' cloak sound. That means i either just cloaked or uncloaked. If you hear the whoosh, look 360° around the room. If you dont see me, ask the commander for a scanner sweep to locate me.

5. Place sentries such that there is NO WAY for me to hide behind the TF.

6. If you've been fighting me from range and have hidden behind something to reload, if you dont see me when you pop back out, ask for a scanner sweep pronto, or just start firing right infront of you/along the wall you hid behind. Chances are you'll get me.

thats all, i look forward to dying more in the days to come.

TacoSupreme · November 2002

I find the best set up for killing a fade, even solo is a HMG/Jetpack. With the jetpack you can move amazingly fast by tapping jump (so you dont hit your head on the ceiling or beams) and sorta skim across the ground. Like this you can catch almost any fleeing fade, and a fade that cant run from a HMG is dead. Also a fade has a pretty hopeless time trying to hit a jetpack user with an acid rocket. As well if he trys to melee you, you can always fly out of range and return fire with your HMG.

The key here is being as mobile as he is and not letting him get away. Not to mention this setup works well on just about anything the aliens can throw at you. You can fly above skulks, and waste them in no time with your HMG. Lerks even in umbra die fast from close range HMG fire, with a jetpack you can get close fast. Onos is a joke, he cant hit you, and even an onos dies in less than a full clip from your HMG.

The key advantage aliens have is their superior mobility. Between motion tracking and jetpacks you can eliminate that advantage.

playerman · November 2002

even a basic fade is much stronger than a LMG/LA marine.
so when aliens have 2 hives while marines are low on resource spots, it's bye-bye for the marines.

in my experience an upgraded HMG/HA marine does stand a fair chance against an upgraded fade.

playerman · November 2002

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TacoSupreme @ Nov 16 2002, 02:25 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>The key advantage aliens have is their superior mobility. Between motion tracking and jetpacks you can eliminate that advantage.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
I'd say ammo/energy regeneration (which all aliens always have) is another key advantage. Marines have no equivalent.
Then there's the option for even faster ammo/energy regeneration, and health+armor regeneration. Again the marines have no equivalent.
Marines cant realy eliminate those advantages. You just can't count on the comm dropping packs when you need 'm all the time, he has many other things to occupy him.

Though indeed, motion tracking is a very important upgrade for marines. Jetpacks aren't realy my thing, maybe because i forget to break when i land from great hight <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'>

NamRanger · November 2002

Well I'm kinda new, but if any of you saw me please reply. I can't remember the map name, but I do remember where we were. We had secured the reactor room, along with the waste hive. 4 Fades come attack the reactor room, where there's not a single marine. I was loaded with HA + HMG, I ran through the phase gate, and I was point blank against all 4 fades. I unloaded my entire clip into 3 of em, and I actually knifed the last one...... it was friggin hillairous...

NamRanger · November 2002

Sorry for this small double post, but I'd also like to add that Fades are my favorite guys to fight......
The one mistake most people make is that they fire long range with hmgs vs fades, and you know what?
It doesn't hurt them. That's why I usually rush ahead untill I'm about 3 ft away, and unload into them.
Also Jetpack + Shotgun is a good combo vs Fades too <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

Rainman · November 2002

I usually try to chase fades when they duck around corners. It seems for me that when they duck back it's as often to recharge energy as to recharge health. So what happens? Acid rocket to the face and I die. Chasing a fade rarely works in my experience because if you're equipped to catch him, it means he can kill you in about 2 seconds flat when you get to him. Chase a fade in HA/HMG? Don't make me laugh. While a HA/HMG marine may be equal with a fade power-wise, the fade still gets the advantage mobility-wise. The result? The fade has the advantage overall. Jetpacks may be the answer, but not enough people know how to use them well (myself included).

A dead HA/HMG marine results in lost team resources. A dead fade results in lost personal resources. Big difference there when you're considering overall strategy.

Rainman

Tell Me, Frontiersmen, Duking It Out With Fades?

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