I think any more FOV on the skulk is just disorientating. Now marines... Theres a class that could do with an extra 10 degrees. Though this would probably give them too much of a buff, as its easier to follow skulks with! Oh noes! <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> Meh.. I was even bored enough to take pics <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/nerd-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I was kinda wondering why the fov is at 90 for most classes anyway (well all of them except the skulk) considering NS is a pretty fast paced game.
I played around abit with the fov with some friends and found 97 is a pretty nice sweet spot to play at. It's not that different from 90 but it gets rid of the feeling that im stuck only looking forward and the weird feeling of tunnel vision at 100 (for marines this is, didnt fiddle with aliens too much)
<!--QuoteBegin-SuitePee+Jan 29 2005, 12:21 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SuitePee @ Jan 29 2005, 12:21 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I've never seen a skulk complain about not being able to "see" a marine, especially when skulks find it easy to kill marines. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Everytime you bite, you loose complete sight of your target for approximately 0.2 seconds. Add that up over multiple bites and its easy to loss track of your target especially in those situations where you both are continually missing each other or when the marine is hoppng around like a CS-er. So yes, many players, especially new ones, have a hard time "seeing" marines.
TheAdjHe demanded a cool forum title of some type.Join Date: 2004-05-03Member: 28436Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation
Necrosis it varies from person to person. I personally get very ill at higher FOV and faster movement, but if it's short term I do just fine. More than half an hour or so and I'll get physically ill. Just like some people have no problems in planes while others get pretty nauseous (me).
Your computer is looking out for your health, obviously. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
360° is unplayable because your monitor turns into a mashed piece of bullpoop. tried it once with unreal tournament just for fun. you see NOTHING and it looks like you would look through a ball shaped caleidoscope into the world.
heared a gossip that some are playing with this, though. if this is true, they are unfragable.
ShockehIf a packet drops on the web and nobody's near to see it...Join Date: 2002-11-19Member: 9336NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
<!--QuoteBegin-Haze+Jan 30 2005, 12:42 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Haze @ Jan 30 2005, 12:42 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Wow how the heck can you guys get sick? That stuff hardly makes me blink.. its a flipping video game screen. Oh well.. I wanna play with 180 lol <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Haze - By any chance are you left handed?
Amusingly (and this is only going from studies I've read, so bear with me if it's proven wrong) left handed people have better spatial awareness, just due to dominance issues within the right hand side of the brain, which happens to be where most of the tissues responsible lie.
Simply put, we lefties cope with identifying our location in a 3d space better, even if we're using a 2d device to display it to us.
As a rule, more right handed people get sick because (afaik) the brain doesn't like to be confused about where it's FOV lies.
People have tried wearing goggles that give them 180 vision before, and they invariably become <i>very</i> ill before long.
I'm ambi but was beaten into being lefty. But then I also have a slightly bigger head which means I'm better in nonverbal skills, and I was ultrasound scanned as an embyro which apparently increases the chance of autism and left handedness. I'm also an Arien and a Sheep, which is an interesting cross of East and West Astrology. I also don't get sick while looking at wacky FOVs.
<!--QuoteBegin-Necrosis+Jan 30 2005, 06:54 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Necrosis @ Jan 30 2005, 06:54 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I'm ambi but was beaten into being lefty. But then I also have a slightly bigger head which means I'm better in nonverbal skills, and I was ultrasound scanned as an embyro which apparently increases the chance of autism and left handedness. I'm also an Arien and a Sheep, which is an interesting cross of East and West Astrology. I also don't get sick while looking at wacky FOVs.
Oh, and I don't eat mushrooms.
Perhaps you guys should stop eating mushrooms.
Man, I love insanity. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> err.. i'm right handed. i have a big head. i don't get sick looking at wacky FOVs.. what does that mean?.. lol <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif' /><!--endemo--> <-180 degree goggles.
ShockehIf a packet drops on the web and nobody's near to see it...Join Date: 2002-11-19Member: 9336NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
<!--QuoteBegin-Belgarion+Jan 31 2005, 01:32 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Belgarion @ Jan 31 2005, 01:32 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> err.. i'm right handed. i have a big head. i don't get sick looking at wacky FOVs.. what does that mean?.. lol <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif' /><!--endemo--> <-180 degree goggles. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Not much. Like I said, it's in general. It's just a higher percentage of lefties, not a be-all and end-all. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Interesting. But where do the NS Devs draw the line on affecting people who play. Imo as long as there's a disclaimer they can do wth they want to the FOV. But I'm interested to hear how they would test the medical implications of this.
This comes mainly from a post that was linked from the Steam forums, where someone was complaining of epileptic fits caused by the Flashing lights in the de_prodigy Terrorist spawn. It was a hoax post, but raised some interesting points about where we must draw the line between realism and health implications. As games become less virtual and more of a reality, will the Games Developers begin to fall into two camps: those who will stop at a certain point to enable everyone to play the game and those who will push games harder but with foreseeable medical consequences. I'm looking forward to seeing how this pans oout... <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I guess u could pull it off by using the fishbowl effect used in avp but I always found that of little use and wierd, besides if you take the skulk model literally with eyes on the side of its head the skulk would have no depth perception.
TheAdjHe demanded a cool forum title of some type.Join Date: 2004-05-03Member: 28436Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation
If you read the paper that comes with every console game, it has a page dedicated to talking about ill health effects from flashing lights, namely epilepsy. Just thought of that from the prodigy flashing lights issue.
I think the FOV is set up to prevent most people from having health issues and being playable at the same time. It's entirely possible some people get sick as-is (lerk flight and fade blinkage can get sickening at times), but unlikely. Moving the FOV out much will usually result in motion sickness after a given time though.
can anyone help me please? I really wanna see how it affects online play but I don't know how to enter the two required commands ( I showed how I entered them in my first post)
aonomusDedicated NS Mastermind (no need for school)Join Date: 2003-11-26Member: 23605Members, Constellation
I think that the games do warn you of insane flashing thingys...
Also, having the view rotate is probbably possible (remember when strafing tilted your view?), but NS is too complicated to do that, and it'd be a huge change to NS...
obuhNot Quite Smart at NSJoin Date: 2003-03-31Member: 15072Members, Constellation
edited January 2005
It was tried and implemented, but it was dumped because you would have to adjust every map for it (too many sharp changes, eg. stairs). Something along those lines etc.
Does anyone remember <a href='http://wouter.fov120.com/gfxengine/fisheyequake/' target='_blank'>Fisheye Quake</a>?
It was much nicer to use with high FOVs and didn't make the centre of your view look like someone just in front of you was 2 miles away.
I just saw that he also has <a href='http://wouter.fov120.com/gfxengine/panquake/index.html' target='_blank'>PanQuake</a> which gives you a 360 degree view! I never tried this one out though, so I'm not sure how well it worked.
Just an idea, but doesn't parasite give you an arrow at the side of the screen when the marked player leaves your FOV? Admittedly lots of parasites could lead to confusion, but it shouldn't be too difficult to discern betwen the various different icons. Perhaps the player could see their most recently marked victim as a different coloured icon. The Skulks have to approach Marines from range anyway, and parasiting them would help kill them aswell.
Someone mentioned giving the marines a cloak. That's an interesting idea, but combined with the kind of weaponry they use it would be too effective. The aliens would need something to act as a counterbalance, like some kind of "spore mine" that releases a cloud that marks the marines [within its area of effect] on the hive-sight. That way it would be possible to protect against invisible marines storming a hive.
A good compromise would be to allow skulks to adjust their FOV anywhere from 90 to 130 or whatever. You won't have to worry about making anyone sick then, and you can add that atmospheric touch that you like.
Comments
Now marines... Theres a class that could do with an extra 10 degrees. Though this would probably give them too much of a buff, as its easier to follow skulks with! Oh noes! <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Meh.. I was even bored enough to take pics <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/nerd-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
fov 90 (normal)
<img src='http://www.lovelydonkey.com/pics/fov90.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
fov 100
<img src='http://www.lovelydonkey.com/pics/fov100.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
I was kinda wondering why the fov is at 90 for most classes anyway (well all of them except the skulk) considering NS is a pretty fast paced game.
I played around abit with the fov with some friends and found 97 is a pretty nice sweet spot to play at. It's not that different from 90 but it gets rid of the feeling that im stuck only looking forward and the weird feeling of tunnel vision at 100 (for marines this is, didnt fiddle with aliens too much)
Everytime you bite, you loose complete sight of your target for approximately 0.2 seconds. Add that up over multiple bites and its easy to loss track of your target especially in those situations where you both are continually missing each other or when the marine is hoppng around like a CS-er.
So yes, many players, especially new ones, have a hard time "seeing" marines.
Lots of people have played Aliens in it and suffered no ill effects from the strange fisheye-like visuals.
and htis was on my own server, force 90 fov was off, and i even had sv_cheats 1 on O_o
heared a gossip that some are playing with this, though. if this is true, they are unfragable.
Haze - By any chance are you left handed?
Amusingly (and this is only going from studies I've read, so bear with me if it's proven wrong) left handed people have better spatial awareness, just due to dominance issues within the right hand side of the brain, which happens to be where most of the tissues responsible lie.
Simply put, we lefties cope with identifying our location in a 3d space better, even if we're using a 2d device to display it to us.
As a rule, more right handed people get sick because (afaik) the brain doesn't like to be confused about where it's FOV lies.
People have tried wearing goggles that give them 180 vision before, and they invariably become <i>very</i> ill before long.
- Shockwave
Oh, and I don't eat mushrooms.
Perhaps you guys should stop eating mushrooms.
Man, I love insanity.
I can't seem to get it to work how exactly am I supposed to enter the Cl commands into console
like this :
cl_lw 0
cl_lc 0
fow 100
^ thats how I entered it in but it continues to say fov is "0"
I can get it to work with sv_cheats 1
ps. yes I have forced 90 degree Fov set to off.
That would be morally wrong.*
(* - Wrong to stop, or to start?)
Oh, and I don't eat mushrooms.
Perhaps you guys should stop eating mushrooms.
Man, I love insanity. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
err.. i'm right handed. i have a big head. i don't get sick looking at wacky FOVs.. what does that mean?.. lol <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif' /><!--endemo--> <-180 degree goggles.
err.. i'm right handed. i have a big head. i don't get sick looking at wacky FOVs.. what does that mean?.. lol <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif' /><!--endemo--> <-180 degree goggles. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not much. Like I said, it's in general. It's just a higher percentage of lefties, not a be-all and end-all. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
This comes mainly from a post that was linked from the Steam forums, where someone was complaining of epileptic fits caused by the Flashing lights in the de_prodigy Terrorist spawn. It was a hoax post, but raised some interesting points about where we must draw the line between realism and health implications. As games become less virtual and more of a reality, will the Games Developers begin to fall into two camps: those who will stop at a certain point to enable everyone to play the game and those who will push games harder but with foreseeable medical consequences. I'm looking forward to seeing how this pans oout... <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I think the FOV is set up to prevent most people from having health issues and being playable at the same time. It's entirely possible some people get sick as-is (lerk flight and fade blinkage can get sickening at times), but unlikely. Moving the FOV out much will usually result in motion sickness after a given time though.
Also, having the view rotate is probbably possible (remember when strafing tilted your view?), but NS is too complicated to do that, and it'd be a huge change to NS...
Edit: <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=1&t=30134&hl=skulk&view=findpost&p=387681' target='_blank'>http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index....ndpost&p=387681</a>
It was much nicer to use with high FOVs and didn't make the centre of your view look like someone just in front of you was 2 miles away.
I just saw that he also has <a href='http://wouter.fov120.com/gfxengine/panquake/index.html' target='_blank'>PanQuake</a> which gives you a 360 degree view! I never tried this one out though, so I'm not sure how well it worked.
thanks for the link
Admittedly lots of parasites could lead to confusion, but it shouldn't be too difficult to discern betwen the various different icons. Perhaps the player could see their most recently marked victim as a different coloured icon.
The Skulks have to approach Marines from range anyway, and parasiting them would help kill them aswell.
Someone mentioned giving the marines a cloak. That's an interesting idea, but combined with the kind of weaponry they use it would be too effective. The aliens would need something to act as a counterbalance, like some kind of "spore mine" that releases a cloud that marks the marines [within its area of effect] on the hive-sight.
That way it would be possible to protect against invisible marines storming a hive.
You won't have to worry about making anyone sick then, and you can add that atmospheric touch that you like.