Overdepending On Turrets/towers
The_Finch
Join Date: 2002-11-13 Member: 8498Members
Join Date: 2002-11-13 Member: 8498Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Reducing turret farms</div> People are slow to change, and will generally go with what works until something better comes along. Unfortunatly, spamming turrets has become a winning strategy, and it doesn't seem to show any signs of going away.
NS maps are far larger then your standard TFC or CS map, and are far more cramped. The few open areas are inevitably valuble resource points, hive locations or a good, old fashioned chokepoint. It's often some combination of those. But standard server populations are 12-24 people, meaning it's 6-12 per team. A 12 person team for maps this size is ineffective at covering all the important areas and still remaining a viable fighting force.
So turrets take up all the space except for the turret factory and possibly an armory for in field resupply. You need a lot, because turrets are dumb. Strategies don't become "kill the players." They become "Take out that damn factory at all costs!" I find this a little boring. Finding a way to counter a room full of turrets isn't the action I'm really looking for.
I'm basically wondering if anyone else feels the same way, and if there's anything that's in the works to reduce both the need and desire for turret farms or tower clusters.
NS maps are far larger then your standard TFC or CS map, and are far more cramped. The few open areas are inevitably valuble resource points, hive locations or a good, old fashioned chokepoint. It's often some combination of those. But standard server populations are 12-24 people, meaning it's 6-12 per team. A 12 person team for maps this size is ineffective at covering all the important areas and still remaining a viable fighting force.
So turrets take up all the space except for the turret factory and possibly an armory for in field resupply. You need a lot, because turrets are dumb. Strategies don't become "kill the players." They become "Take out that damn factory at all costs!" I find this a little boring. Finding a way to counter a room full of turrets isn't the action I'm really looking for.
I'm basically wondering if anyone else feels the same way, and if there's anything that's in the works to reduce both the need and desire for turret farms or tower clusters.
Comments
Marines on the other hand, need the Turretfactory first. It must still be operable for turrets to be affective.
Aside from the gorge, any alien class can make a turret farm go down single handedly if they don't just simply rush it.
The stock marine with a LMG isn't likely to be able to take out 4 OCs backed up with a few DCs. Shottie needs to be close to be effective. HMG's are expensive, but plausible, and GL's (if affordable) win the day. And the last game I played the siege cannons don't seem to do a whole helluva lotta good against them for some reason. I've heard others talk about this bug, and now I've seen it first hand from Commander's point of view. It sucks.
Balanced... maybe. But I still say marine turrets are a lot less affective than Alien turrets as things stand now.
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So what really needs to be done is to make the alien chamber clusters less resilient or the marine turret farms more so. Judging from your opinion it would be nerfing chambers that we need.
sentries are now very ineffective at covering a room, because no matter what, the turret factory is the weak point. even a skulk can take them out easily. marines must learn not depend on sentries, but on their greater mobility which teleport pads and mobile spawn points lend them. therefore i can't agree with you that marines have a need or desire to turret farm, as smart marines know that turret farms are a quick path to defeat.
alien "turrets" on the other hand, no matter how many, will always fall to siege cannons and grenades.
as it currently stands, the team with the better offence wins, because both teams' static defences are weak. this is a good thing. currently marines turret farm and lose a lot because they are still living in their v1.00 world, where turtling DID win the game.
I'm starting to think...is it really fair that once the Marines T.factory is out that they lose turret power? Look at the aliens towers, they can get healed w/o needing a person around and they dont shut down once something gets taken out. I think bringing it back the old way where the t.factory wasn't such a huge target
maybe have it so that if the t.factory goes out..that the turrets become less accurate..or become slower to lock on in a sense
Take the example of a BGH map in starcraft. You could always spend all your resource nodes on nothing but defense as a protoss. Photon cannons out the **obscenity**. Surround your whole base with 5-7 layers of the suckers. Then slap them everywhere else in between for the mass air rush on your center. You are pretty well protected.....for awhile. But eventually the pressure of enemy offensives will be so much that they will finally break down your walls. Your huge defense is now dead.
If you were to instead build a quarter of as much defense, and spend all the extra resources on a strong offense, you now can easily defend your base with a combination of the two, plus have an army to attack with.
If you stuck with me on this, then congrats. In short for those of you who didnt, there needs to be no change, except maybe some of the siege turret bugs. I have seen 10 siege turrets in a cluster fail to take down 4 offense and 4 d.chambers in the next room. But If I pop around the corner with a light machine gun and direct my fire on one turret, I can take it down in a few seconds. This seems wierd.
[edit] Do not listen to the bacon! He's talking actual strategy! *hiss* havent seen the siege bug yet though [/edit]
Alien turrets also parasite you!
So the trade-off for this nice bonus is that the turrets are quite in-accurate. As for the marine siege cannons, it's like their own tiny.
Marine turrets can also be built more mobilely, you don't need a gorge. Commander just sets up an order, and you go build it.
or just be very evasive ( left,right,left) and try not to jump,coz turrets very accurate when u're JUMPING
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Greater mobility?
*snickers*
Hmm maybe this guy hasn´t tried out pressing the "use" key while facing an alien movement chamber...can´t blame him though, few aliens seem to know about the alien teleports.
And compared to a skulk with celerity the marines seem like the "secret obese geriatric attack force"...
No flame intended.
/NB
aliens completely depend on the hive locations: they spawn there, they get there abilities from there and they can teleport only there
marines on the other hand can teleport and spawn whereever they want on the whole map.
the fact that you see spawngates nowhere except in the original base and 10 sentries instead of a teleport pad prove that the marines have not understood their inherent advantage of superior mobility yet.