Is This Picture Offensive?
NeonSpyder
"Das est NTLDR?" Join Date: 2003-07-03 Member: 17913Members
"Das est NTLDR?" Join Date: 2003-07-03 Member: 17913Members
<div class="IPBDescription">it's not that bad, right?</div> yeah, so anyway i was playing around with photoshop and i also happened to stumble onto a picture of the governator that i just <i>had</i> to abuse. the only problem is when my grandmother saw it she smacked me upside the head and banished me to the root celler, she took offense to the whole "nazi" thing.
but i was wondering what you guys thought... poltically incorrect or not?
(p.s. we don't really have a root celler)
but i was wondering what you guys thought... poltically incorrect or not?
(p.s. we don't really have a root celler)
Comments
Agreed.
1. It's a f***ing geometric shape, get over it. (Remember when DOOM got itself banned in Germany for having a floor pattern of one?)
2. The swastika actually has a long & noble history prior to it's use by nazi Germany. It's a common heraldric emblem for many houses who were forced to dispense with it in the wave of anti-nazi sentiment that has occupied the 20th century.
- Shockwave
It's offensive. It's offensive to the people who were around to experience what it meant, it's offensive to modern day germans, it's offensive to the people who have family and friends who were affected by it.
It's like me laughing at pictures of corpses from 9/11. It has nothing to do with me, it didn't affect me, why should I care?
Nazism isn't, never was, and never will be a hilarious topic.
Edit:
Re: Shockwave.
What's your point? I could draw a symbol of circle with a tissue box inside it. If in twenty years it becomes the coat of arms of a horrific dictator and his regime of fascist death troops, is it still not offensive because of what it represents? It is obvious that the original poster was referring to the nazis with his image. Defilement of a previously innocent symbol through propaganda and associated evil is nothing new, and is also irrelevent.
Edit x 2: For the record, arnie would kick your **** for that, puny mortal.
<img src='http://www.another-world.org.uk/spacer/lolnoled.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
What's your point? I could draw a symbol of circle with a tissue box inside it. If in twenty years it becomes the coat of arms of a horrific dictator and his regime of fascist death troops, is it still not offensive because of what it represents? It is obvious that the original poster was referring to the nazis with his image. Defilement of a previously innocent symbol through propaganda and associated evil is nothing new, and is also irrelevent.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Let's pick an example, shall we?
How about, I start my own terrorist group which kills millions on innocents in a nuclear explosion. Or an oppresive regime that imposes it's will by invading other countries that don't match it to it's ideal of the 'right' way to live, govern or exist.
Now, it turns out I have a symbol of my regime, a flag. But that same symbol was previously used by peoples who sought to do good in the world. How would those people feel about your flag, and is it just to tag them with the same brush because they used the same symbol, prior to my regimes' existence? Not really.
Incidentally, I do agree that the reference there (due to the layout, etc) is a clear nazi reference, so please don't take it to mean I'm saying this particular image is correct.
But, for the record, how about we take a look at my regimes' <a href='http://mason.k12.il.us/havanahs/flag.jpg' target='_blank'>flag</a>?
Now just to make this a little controversial, bear in mind there are people in the world <b>right now</b> who feel that way about that flag. You fly it, you're part of that (hopefully) minority, in their eyes. That's a very sad statement about human life, but it's also true.
- Shockwave
It's offensive. It's offensive to the people who were around to experience what it meant, it's offensive to modern day germans, it's offensive to the people who have family and friends who were affected by it.
It's like me laughing at pictures of corpses from 9/11. It has nothing to do with me, it didn't affect me, why should I care?
Nazism isn't, never was, and never will be a hilarious topic.
Edit:
Re: Shockwave.
What's your point? I could draw a symbol of circle with a tissue box inside it. If in twenty years it becomes the coat of arms of a horrific dictator and his regime of fascist death troops, is it still not offensive because of what it represents? It is obvious that the original poster was referring to the nazis with his image. Defilement of a previously innocent symbol through propaganda and associated evil is nothing new, and is also irrelevent.
Edit x 2: For the record, arnie would kick your **** for that, puny mortal.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Just keep this in mind: Nobody has the right not to be offended. Nobody is ever FORCED to be offended at anything. If something I do offends someone, that's too bad. They'll have to deal with it.
Try going to a countries like India. As far as I know, the swastika is still <b>very common</b> there, and it's not used to refer to Hitler or the Nazi regime in any way.
By the way, I <b>do</b> like the swastika. Very much. I like the symbol for the meanings that it originally had, not the meaning that Hitler added to it. (<b>There can be more than one meaning to something.</b>)
<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/style_images/TSA_Skin-975/icon12.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image' /> <a href='http://web.archive.org/web/20040209074927/http://www.manwoman.net/swastika' target='_blank'>http://web.archive.org/web/20040209074927/...an.net/swastika</a>
Anyway, my "nobody has the right not to be offended" phrase applies to this situation, too. Why do you care if it offends your grandmother? If you find it funny, that's your business. If they don't find it funny, they don't HAVE to look at it. (Maybe you should point them to this page, created by a friend that I used to have: <a href='http://www31.brinkster.com/xlovexlizax/stuff/getoverit.html' target='_blank'>http://www31.brinkster.com/xlovexlizax/stuff/getoverit.html</a>)
im waiting for this thread to be locked.
To me it is in the past, and, although the reprecusions of what the Nazis did are still felt today, you cannot dwell on the past but learn from it. Lets not forget children that the Nazi's did not only do bad things. They did help to advance technology alot, and the research they did pushed medical science forward.
That's not the point. I'm aware that the symbols weren't invented by the nazis. The swastika on the flag referring to the nazis is offensive.
CForrester:
I'll keep your opinion in mind next time I see you somewhere without a swear word filter.
What's your point? I could draw a symbol of circle with a tissue box inside it. If in twenty years it becomes the coat of arms of a horrific dictator and his regime of fascist death troops, is it still not offensive because of what it represents? It is obvious that the original poster was referring to the nazis with his image. Defilement of a previously innocent symbol through propaganda and associated evil is nothing new, and is also irrelevent.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Let's pick an example, shall we?
How about, I start my own terrorist group which kills millions on innocents in a nuclear explosion. Or an oppresive regime that imposes it's will by invading other countries that don't match it to it's ideal of the 'right' way to live, govern or exist.
Now, it turns out I have a symbol of my regime, a flag. But that same symbol was previously used by peoples who sought to do good in the world. How would those people feel about your flag, and is it just to tag them with the same brush because they used the same symbol, prior to my regimes' existence? Not really.
Incidentally, I do agree that the reference there (due to the layout, etc) is a clear nazi reference, so please don't take it to mean I'm saying this particular image is correct.
But, for the record, how about we take a look at my regimes' <a href='http://mason.k12.il.us/havanahs/flag.jpg' target='_blank'>flag</a>?
Now just to make this a little controversial, bear in mind there are people in the world <b>right now</b> who feel that way about that flag. You fly it, you're part of that (hopefully) minority, in their eyes. That's a very sad statement about human life, but it's also true.
- Shockwave <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
You've completely ignored what empawe said, repeated it back to him, and gone straight ahead and made yourself look like a complete idiot by dragging american foreign policy into it. American foreign policy isn't the greatest, but it's not the holocaust, and referencing it as such is an insult to the millions of people who died, in my opinion.
Personally, I don't find the picture to be extremely offensive, but I very well might have, and I can definitely see why someone might have. I can only say that I agree with everything empawe has said to this point.
im waiting for this thread to be locked. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Want to point me to where he was being racist? Because I'm missing that.
I'll keep your opinion in mind next time I see you somewhere without a swear word filter. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
You can PM me if you like. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> I honestly don't care.
<img src='http://www.natives.co.uk/news/2001/0601/harry.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
1. Do you get off on picking at me, marce?
2. I'm drawing a comparison. That doesn't make me 'look a complete idiot', I'm using an example to try & explain what I meant. eediot & I don't have to necessarily agree, and I actually mentioned I can see his point, that the image in question does quite obviously refer to nazi Germany with the use of the swastika portrayed, and I agree that people could be offended by it.
I was trying to show that while nazi Germany was an absolute atrocity and should never be allowed to even come close to occuring again, to the point of view of someone that may have been living in Afghanistan or Iraq, what's the difference? Another nation has invaded them, and while they may not have had the best of lifestyles before (a fact best not debated, as it entirely depends on who you are, where you are and what you think, so I'm not bothering to go into it) they now have none at all.
Please, just stop with the baiting and if necessary, just don't reply. I was illustrating a point of view, not telling eediot his was wrong.
- Shockwave
<img src='http://www.natives.co.uk/news/2001/0601/harry.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
That has to be the funniest thing I've seen in ages. Thank you. (<a href='http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4170083.stm' target='_blank'>For those that don't get it</a>)
<span style='font-size:21pt;line-height:100%'><span style='color:red'>FATALITY.</span></span>
PS: This is the first time I have seen a thread defied the Godwin's Law.
El oh el, Flint. I was wondering if anyone was going to mention His Royal Heilness. ;D
What's your point? I could draw a symbol of circle with a tissue box inside it. If in twenty years it becomes the coat of arms of a horrific dictator and his regime of fascist death troops, is it still not offensive because of what it represents? It is obvious that the original poster was referring to the nazis with his image. Defilement of a previously innocent symbol through propaganda and associated evil is nothing new, and is also irrelevent.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Let's pick an example, shall we?
How about, I start my own terrorist group which kills millions on innocents in a nuclear explosion. Or an oppresive regime that imposes it's will by invading other countries that don't match it to it's ideal of the 'right' way to live, govern or exist.
Now, it turns out I have a symbol of my regime, a flag. But that same symbol was previously used by peoples who sought to do good in the world. How would those people feel about your flag, and is it just to tag them with the same brush because they used the same symbol, prior to my regimes' existence? Not really.
Incidentally, I do agree that the reference there (due to the layout, etc) is a clear nazi reference, so please don't take it to mean I'm saying this particular image is correct.
But, for the record, how about we take a look at my regimes' <a href='http://mason.k12.il.us/havanahs/flag.jpg' target='_blank'>flag</a>?
Now just to make this a little controversial, bear in mind there are people in the world <b>right now</b> who feel that way about that flag. You fly it, you're part of that (hopefully) minority, in their eyes. That's a very sad statement about human life, but it's also true.
- Shockwave <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You can take your American hating **** to the Discussian forum, you communist ****.
I love America, and I'm freaking proud to live here
edit:
sorry for double post, I guess it was the thread below this that had a reply to my last post.
<img src='http://www.planettribes.com/allyourbase/b/sign14.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
Its just about as annoying.
PS. just stumbled over this on a site, quoting:
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If one considers the fact that the Swastika and its use in Germany is restricted, US companies can freely use this symbol as a Logo, visible on their technologies exported to Germany. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The Swastika symbol has been used for thousands of years already in almost all human civilizations as a sign for good luck, protection, as a materialisation of life and the changing seasons of the year
Hey, I've got a great idea, you know the way the nazis held up their hands diagonally upwards in front of them? That was a VERY common way of greeting someone with a higher rank, why don't you do that to your boss/teacher? See if he's offended... If he is, that means that you shouldn't draw the swastika either, because it's <b>perceived</b> in a similar way, regardless of original meaning.
New meanings tend to be stronger than old meanings, much like CSS is generally known to mean counterstrike source rather than the stylesheet tool(I actually don't know what it means) among gamers.
This is actually quite a common myth.
From what I've learned, the swastika means creation when pointing one way and destruction when pointing the other. (These are essentially the same thing. Neither are bad and both play their part in life.)
I'm not sure, but I think that the swastika is also a Germanic rune. The SS symbol was a Germanic rune that was repeated twice.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Runes, such as the Sig rune (sun rune), were evident throughout Nazi Germany. In fact, the double Sig rune, as seen here, was the emblem of the dreaded SS division. Heinrich Himmler, head of the SS, was entrenched in mystical Aryanism and Germanic-theosophy.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
[EDIT:]
<!--QuoteBegin-Align+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Align)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Everyone knows the swastika meant something else before the nazis got around to using it.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Unforunately, no. They don't. I can't tell you how many people have responded with "Bull****!! You are so full of ****!" when I tried to explain what the swastika means.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->That doesn't mean it's okay to use.
Hey, I've got a great idea, you know the way the nazis held up their hands diagonally upwards in front of them? That was a VERY common way of greeting someone with a higher rank, why don't you do that to your boss/teacher? See if he's offended... If he is, that means that you shouldn't draw the swastika either, because it's perceived in a similar way, regardless of original meaning.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't see why not. It's just a symbol. I'm willing to explain myself every time someone asks why I have a swastika drawn on my notebook or something. If they don't understand my reasons, that's just too bad. I do not exist to cater to someone else. If they refuse to see that the swastika doesn't necessarily refer to the Nazi regime, then they don't have to pay attention to my swastikas or even me, if they wish. I'll understand.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->New meanings tend to be stronger than old meanings, much like CSS is generally known to mean counterstrike source rather than the stylesheet tool(I actually don't know what it means) among gamers.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
But that doesn't mean that the old meanings can no longer be used.
but i can see why some people find it offensive, since in this case the swastika is clearly used as a nazi symbol, such a shame that a beautiful symbol should be turned into something that represents deaths, tortur and horror... <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
oh.. and for me css is still cascading style sheets <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->