The itty bitty nitty gritty of maps

HanzGruberHanzGruber Join Date: 2002-01-25 Member: 47Members
in Mapping Forum
<div class="IPBDescription">Specifications</div>Could someone be an absolute champion and post up the exact limitations of the bsp format with the HL engine?

Stuff like max entities, max lights on a single texture (believe me there is such a thing cause I reached it) and so on...would be really helpful guideline...

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  • Relic25Relic25 Pixel Punk Join Date: 2002-01-24 Member: 39Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
    Here's an example of what you get if you use "-chart" in RAD.  This shows you all the specs and how much your map uses.  The example shown was returned after using the "-chart" switch in HLCSG, so a lot of the info is not filled in for the map yet.

    Object names  Objects/Maxobjs  Memory / Maxmem  Fullness
    ------------  ---------------  ---------------  --------
    models              0/400            0/25600    ( 0.0)
    planes          32666/32767     653320/655340   (99.7)
    vertexes            0/65535          0/786420   ( 0.0)
    nodes               0/32767          0/786408   ( 0.0)
    texinfos        11620/32767     464800/1310680  (35.5)
    faces               0/65535          0/1310700  ( 0.0)
    clipnodes           0/32767          0/262136   ( 0.0)
    leaves              0/8192           0/229376   ( 0.0)
    marksurfaces        0/65535          0/131070   ( 0.0)
    surfedges           0/512000         0/2048000  ( 0.0)
    edges               0/256000         0/1024000  ( 0.0)
    texdata          [variable]          0/4194304  ( 0.0)
    lightdata        [variable]          0/4194304  ( 0.0)
    visdata          [variable]          0/2097152  ( 0.0)
    entdata          [variable]          0/524288   ( 0.0)
    0 textures referenced
    === Total BSP file data space used: 1118120 bytes ===
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  • badmofobadmofo Join Date: 2002-01-28 Member: 121Members
    holy crap relic:  99.7% USAGE!!!!!  I think you take the cake for having the HIGHEST % of usage while actually getting the map to compile.  awesome.  anyone ever hit 99.9%?
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  • nrbynrby Join Date: 2002-03-05 Member: 270Members
    He set that up somehow, given that all the other limits bar one (including lighting and ents) are 0.0
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  • KungFuSquirrelKungFuSquirrel Basher of Muttons Join Date: 2002-01-26 Member: 103Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
    <!--QuoteBegin--Relic25+Mar. 20 2002,08:04--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (Relic25 @ Mar. 20 2002,08:04)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->The example shown was returned after using the "-chart" switch in HLCSG, so a lot of the info is not filled in for the map yet.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Or just didn't run the other 3 tools. <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo-->
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  • MuuMuu Join Date: 2002-01-24 Member: 23Members
    Hanz - as for lights as for lights the half-life engine can handle 4 light maps - I think that this means you can only have 4 light effects in one area - and I think a light effect is defined as a light which goes on and off or pulses.

    Bodmofo - I had 99.8% clip nodes once in a sinpleplayer map, but I got it down to 80 with clip brushes.

    N@rby - read the posts more carefuly <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo-->
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  • Relic25Relic25 Pixel Punk Join Date: 2002-01-24 Member: 39Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
    I have 99.9% now.  That was from an earlier compile.

    And, no, I didn't set that up. <!--emo&;)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'><!--endemo-->  It was copied directly from the compile log.  The only place where I had "-chart" on was during CSG, so that I could see what the planes usage was without interrupting the compile.

    I just double-checked, and I actually have 99.9896% used as of the last compile.  If I were to check the compile log at home right now, I bet it reads 100%.



    <!--EDIT|Relic25|Mar. 20 2002,13:57-->
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  • HanzGruberHanzGruber Join Date: 2002-01-25 Member: 47Members
    hmmm...so which one is the entities...cause that's what I really really want to know...how many of those purple little ####### squares I can use...
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  • HanzGruberHanzGruber Join Date: 2002-01-25 Member: 47Members
    damm...didn't know I couldn't say Ba stard....it's a legitimate term for a fatherless child... <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo-->
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  • Relic25Relic25 Pixel Punk Join Date: 2002-01-24 Member: 39Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
    You can get away with quite a lot of point entites, apparently.  It's best to keep non-light point entities down below 300 or so (correct me if I'm wrong Merk), but you can have a lot more light entities, as they are culled from the visible entity list during the compile.  As far as HL limits are concerned, your map will still compile as long as the "entdata" doesn't exceed the maximum, and you don't run anything else over the limits (lights, for example).  But long before you reach that limit, there will be other problems when you play.  The most notable being that entities will simply stop being drawn after a certain point.
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  • HanzGruberHanzGruber Join Date: 2002-01-25 Member: 47Members
    ta relic <!--emo&:D--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'><!--endemo-->
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  • Relic25Relic25 Pixel Punk Join Date: 2002-01-24 Member: 39Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
    Here's the whole thing after today's compile.

    Object names  Objects/Maxobjs  Memory / Maxmem  Fullness
    ------------  ---------------  ---------------  --------
    models            253/400        16192/25600    (63.3)
    planes          32734/32767     654680/655340   (99.9)
    vertexes        22449/65535     269388/786420   (34.3)
    nodes           10162/32767     243888/786408   (31.0)
    texinfos        11638/32767     465520/1310680  (35.5)
    faces           16334/65535     326680/1310700  (24.9)
    clipnodes       29477/32767     235816/262136   (90.0)
    leaves           6954/8192      194712/229376   (84.9)
    marksurfaces    21880/65535      43760/131070   (33.4)
    surfedges       74311/512000    297244/2048000  (14.5)
    edges           38365/256000    153460/1024000  (15.0)
    texdata          [variable]       9388/4194304  ( 0.2)
    lightdata        [variable]    2141172/4194304  (51.0)
    visdata          [variable]     184624/2097152  ( 8.8)
    entdata          [variable]      72708/524288   (13.9)
    188 textures referenced
    === Total BSP file data space used: 5309232 bytes ===
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  • realityisdeadrealityisdead Employed by Raven Software after making ns_nothing Join Date: 2002-01-26 Member: 94Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
    So are you pretty much finished with ns_bast, Relic? Sure sounds like it. <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo-->
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  • Black_WolfBlack_Wolf Join Date: 2002-03-13 Member: 310Members
    brush-based entities (func_walls, illusionaries, etc) come under the models limit dont they? im pretty sure . . . which means a limit of 400

    Object names  Objects/Maxobjs  Memory / Maxmem  Fullness
    ------------  ---------------  ---------------  --------
    models              0/400            0/25600    ( 0.0)
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    that one
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  • Relic25Relic25 Pixel Punk Join Date: 2002-01-24 Member: 39Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
    I don't think it is, or if "models" is brush entities, I'd be extremely surprised.  I say this because I know for a fact that I have more than 253 brush entities.

    ken20banks: Except for modifications based on playtesting feedback and performance optimizations, I'd say it's done.  At this point I can't add more than a single brush without removing another first. <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo-->  Oh, I forgot about something.  I still need to add some finishing touches in the form of non-brush based signs, and maybe a few more sounds.



    <!--EDIT|Relic25|Mar. 21 2002,10:11-->
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  • JedisarJedisar Join Date: 2002-03-03 Member: 264Awaiting Authorization
    <!--QuoteBegin--badmofo+Mar. 20 2002,12:32--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (badmofo @ Mar. 20 2002,12:32)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->holy crap relic:  99.7% USAGE!!!!!  I think you take the cake for having the HIGHEST % of usage while actually getting the map to compile.  awesome.  anyone ever hit 99.9%?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    yeah..but it was just a buncha curving walls <!--emo&:p--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'><!--endemo-->
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