You will still have the same trouble hitting the lerk as you do now, he moves just a small bit slower. 900 upwards is still faster than any other lifeform moves. And with his new hitbox shooting at a lerk who is facing you or moving away from you (due to his small area) Will be just as hard (assuming the lerk is a good lerk).
A lerk above you is easier to hit due to his wing span and area of his wings.
That_Annoying_KidSire of TitlesJoin Date: 2003-03-01Member: 14175Members, Constellation
overall the changes look hawt, the new eclipse MS hailing from 1.xx and 2.xx got my attention, the inate regen and cloaking tweaks look to be cool and will have interesting reprecusion for aliens <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I look forward to the release, ns has still only gotten bigger and better
<!--QuoteBegin-Fieari+Jan 13 2005, 08:05 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Fieari @ Jan 13 2005, 08:05 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> And look, neither of you have actually played the game... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> actually i've been playing since 1.0 and play competetivly
Except that it's been made perfectly clear that he isn't a consti. All he needs to say is "I played this one game in B6 on <map name> with <name> as commander, and despite massive marine advantage and the impossibility of alien comeback, because of this alteration to seige cannons we couldn't end the game for a whole half hour!" I mean, such an anecdote would clearly blow everything I've said out of the water. And if he's a consti, he should be able to do that, right?
I haven't talked to a person who's played the new version yet who wasn't appreciative of the way it works now. Thus, it ocures to me that either the theory behind the statements that it will ruin the game is incorrect, or B6 incorporates mind altering brainwashing rays, but in either case, things look good to me. I mean, if I've been brainwashed, then at least I think I'm having fun (and more fun than I had in B5, at that)... and honestly, what's the differece between thinking I'm having more fun and having more fun?
<!--QuoteBegin-MrObvious+Jan 14 2005, 01:04 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MrObvious @ Jan 14 2005, 01:04 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I'm a consti member too <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> But have you played more than one match where sieges were used? I've played in several - both as alien and marine - and I think the changes are excellent.
<!--QuoteBegin-DragonMech+Jan 14 2005, 02:22 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DragonMech @ Jan 14 2005, 02:22 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-MrObvious+Jan 14 2005, 01:04 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MrObvious @ Jan 14 2005, 01:04 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I'm a consti member too <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> But have you played more than one match where sieges were used? I've played in several - both as alien and marine - and I think the changes are excellent. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I've played as well, and well the changes arn't useful.
Look at that. Apparently someone has discovered the whole problem to changing sieges long before I even knew the changelog existed... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> If you take Forlorn's very negative speculation on the siege change and rephrase it a bit, the flaw in his conclusion is obvious... It's true that a 2-3 gorges can hold 3 sieges at bay indefinitely. Conversely, all it takes is 3 sieges to completely neutralize 2-3 gorges heal spamming the hive. At that point, it isn't even necessary to kill them; you can shoot the hive down as if they and the sieges weren't even there, and the alien team is down 2-3 defenders because the gorges are forced to remain there healing. This way sieges are very helpful in backing up a marine assault, but not replacing one. There is no more frustrating way to lose a hive than to an army of siege cannons with the marines just sitting back with their guns pointed at the door, and with this change that will rarely happen anymore.
<!--QuoteBegin-DarkFrost+Jan 13 2005, 04:13 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DarkFrost @ Jan 13 2005, 04:13 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The "no pancaking thing":
You will still have the same trouble hitting the lerk as you do now, he moves just a small bit slower. 900 upwards is still faster than any other lifeform moves. And with his new hitbox shooting at a lerk who is facing you or moving away from you (due to his small area) Will be just as hard (assuming the lerk is a good lerk).
A lerk above you is easier to hit due to his wing span and area of his wings. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Note that we do not intend to release Beta 6 with the current hitreg issues <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
So its frustrating to **** up majorly and then get sieged? Sure, lets just remove siege splashdamage and leave it at that - now its not frustrating for you anymore, but the other team - because building sieges serves little to no purpose. Finally we don't have to see any TFs in competitive games anymore.
If you still don't believe me - lets move away from the absolutely indefinite healing, and go for the most common scenario. Say, marines have 4 sieges up in Cold Turn - sweet jesus you deserve to be smacked until you bleed if you let marines setup camp there. But anyway : Lets assume for starters a marine team is sieging an active and secondary Hamasaki Hive from there. Your team of 6 players has one Gorge, who movements in and starts healspraying - odds are, that Hive will just barely survive, providing there was an MC in Hama for the first few blasts and/or he has Adren. Okay, so some strategic genius says - hey, lets walk in. Well cool idea, except - you can't make it through the doorways, with Hiveheal Fades sitting there.
"So lets build another obs", aforementioned genius says. Hey thats smart - eventually it will have to be down, right? But wait, you don't have enough combined juice to take down the Hive vs a single gorge until several minutes later. Not so bad? Maybe you missed it, but you don't quite have any RTs anymore - since you only busied 2 out of 6 alien team members (1 gorge and 1 fade) to barely hold off your siege. But hey, at least you could have taken it down with 2 prebuilt observatories or a really determined push into the hive - <b>as long as they didn't actually defend it with 5 out of 6 people (1 person to eat nodes or hit base)</b>. Yeah, thats awesome.
Hey, so next time you need to take out a live 2nd Hive in B6 - just ask the aliens nicely to not use all the abilitys at their disposal.
Saltz, there is no, I mean literally <i>no</i> indication of thusly apocalyptic situations from any tests we have conducted, PT or CM. And we listened. So sorry, but as of now, all you can rely on is Forlorn's word, and I'm not trying to dismiss his intelligence here, but if I had the choice between Aristotle's words and an idiot's facts, I'd still stick to the facts.
<!--QuoteBegin-Nemesis Zero+Jan 16 2005, 12:08 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nemesis Zero @ Jan 16 2005, 12:08 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Saltz, there is no, I mean literally <i>no</i> indication of thusly apocalyptic situations from any tests we have conducted, PT or CM. And we listened. So sorry, but as of now, all you can rely on is Forlorn's word, and I'm not trying to dismiss his intelligence here, but if I had the choice between Aristotle's words and an idiot's facts, I'd still stick to the facts. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Rely on Forlorns word, he didnt post? (if Forlorns isnt MrObvious, or the other way around).
Comments
You will still have the same trouble hitting the lerk as you do now, he moves just a small bit slower. 900 upwards is still faster than any other lifeform moves. And with his new hitbox shooting at a lerk who is facing you or moving away from you (due to his small area) Will be just as hard (assuming the lerk is a good lerk).
A lerk above you is easier to hit due to his wing span and area of his wings.
I look forward to the release, ns has still only gotten bigger and better
actually i've been playing since 1.0 and play competetivly
I haven't talked to a person who's played the new version yet who wasn't appreciative of the way it works now. Thus, it ocures to me that either the theory behind the statements that it will ruin the game is incorrect, or B6 incorporates mind altering brainwashing rays, but in either case, things look good to me. I mean, if I've been brainwashed, then at least I think I'm having fun (and more fun than I had in B5, at that)... and honestly, what's the differece between thinking I'm having more fun and having more fun?
But have you played more than one match where sieges were used? I've played in several - both as alien and marine - and I think the changes are excellent.
But have you played more than one match where sieges were used? I've played in several - both as alien and marine - and I think the changes are excellent. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I've played as well, and well the changes arn't useful.
Look at that. Apparently someone has discovered the whole problem to changing sieges long before I even knew the changelog existed... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you take Forlorn's very negative speculation on the siege change and rephrase it a bit, the flaw in his conclusion is obvious... It's true that a 2-3 gorges can hold 3 sieges at bay indefinitely. Conversely, all it takes is 3 sieges to completely neutralize 2-3 gorges heal spamming the hive. At that point, it isn't even necessary to kill them; you can shoot the hive down as if they and the sieges weren't even there, and the alien team is down 2-3 defenders because the gorges are forced to remain there healing. This way sieges are very helpful in backing up a marine assault, but not replacing one. There is no more frustrating way to lose a hive than to an army of siege cannons with the marines just sitting back with their guns pointed at the door, and with this change that will rarely happen anymore.
You will still have the same trouble hitting the lerk as you do now, he moves just a small bit slower. 900 upwards is still faster than any other lifeform moves. And with his new hitbox shooting at a lerk who is facing you or moving away from you (due to his small area) Will be just as hard (assuming the lerk is a good lerk).
A lerk above you is easier to hit due to his wing span and area of his wings. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Note that we do not intend to release Beta 6 with the current hitreg issues <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
If you still don't believe me - lets move away from the absolutely indefinite healing, and go for the most common scenario. Say, marines have 4 sieges up in Cold Turn - sweet jesus you deserve to be smacked until you bleed if you let marines setup camp there. But anyway : Lets assume for starters a marine team is sieging an active and secondary Hamasaki Hive from there. Your team of 6 players has one Gorge, who movements in and starts healspraying - odds are, that Hive will just barely survive, providing there was an MC in Hama for the first few blasts and/or he has Adren. Okay, so some strategic genius says - hey, lets walk in. Well cool idea, except - you can't make it through the doorways, with Hiveheal Fades sitting there.
"So lets build another obs", aforementioned genius says. Hey thats smart - eventually it will have to be down, right? But wait, you don't have enough combined juice to take down the Hive vs a single gorge until several minutes later. Not so bad? Maybe you missed it, but you don't quite have any RTs anymore - since you only busied 2 out of 6 alien team members (1 gorge and 1 fade) to barely hold off your siege. But hey, at least you could have taken it down with 2 prebuilt observatories or a really determined push into the hive - <b>as long as they didn't actually defend it with 5 out of 6 people (1 person to eat nodes or hit base)</b>. Yeah, thats awesome.
Hey, so next time you need to take out a live 2nd Hive in B6 - just ask the aliens nicely to not use all the abilitys at their disposal.
Get more sieges, send Rambos to acquire Line of Sight. Buhbye, Hive.
Rely on Forlorns word, he didnt post? (if Forlorns isnt MrObvious, or the other way around).
I'd rather wait for actual statistics rather than making balance changes on your superior experience and speculation.
Thanks for your constructive criticism and thoughts, though.