Bind For Chuckle?
CaLFiN
Join Date: 2002-11-04 Member: 6909Members
Join Date: 2002-11-04 Member: 6909Members
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Comments
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Thats right...
but its not er script...
alias swtich1 "slot1;bind mouse3 switch2"
alias switch2 "slot2;bind mouse3 switch1"
hud_fastswitch 1
bind switch1 mouse3
What's wrong with that?
However, it's the people who take advantage of bugs with scripts that has given them a bad name. I can't think of any specific examples but exploiting with scripts is the problem, not the scripts themselves. I can't really understand why flayra tried to prevent us from using scripts to do the same thing we'd normaly do. What's wrong with leaping and then switching to bite to finish them off? I do that WITHOUT scripts very easily, so why can't i use a script to do it just the same?
A better solution would be to simply have a "warmup" when you switch weapons. So if i switch to bite i can't attack for .25 seconds or something. This will stop most scripts from working without having to kill me just because i can hit keys fast <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
its in a sticky in one of these forums, big list.
did you ever find this? I've looked through the sticky threads...could someone direct me to it?pretty please?
did you ever find this? I've looked through the sticky threads...could someone direct me to it?pretty please?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=1&t=8844&hl=impulse' target='_blank'>http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/in...8844&hl=impulse</a>
they took it off sticky, had to search for it.
It even goes further with the anti-scripting code that is in place now. NON-SCRIPTERS r suffering. If I switch weaps too fast I die. And as can be seen amongst the more dexterous and skillful players, this happens a lot with the skulk. <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo-->
This anti-scripting campaign is WAY too aggressive.
EDIT: And quite useless IMO also. For those of us who CAN attack that fast (it ain't hard), a script to do this would not be an advantage, but a hinderance since it would only apply to one single situation in a world of situations. But for those who cannot it gives them a chance to keep up. And as for exploiting scripts, that can be fixed in many other ways I'm sure.
If you want ppl to leave your game faster, than restricting/annoying normal players in order to cut back the cheaters is a sure-fire way. But be warned.... cheaters will ALWAYS find a way to cheat, so u lose more of your "normal" player base than u should have. Mind u there is a threshold which normal players will accept. Lets try not an cross it. And this scripting campaign is borderline.
grrrrr....... *bite* <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo-->
Pressing 1 key to do the same thing that someone else has to press several keys to do is an advantage.
"So what? The other guy can make the script too."
Maybe they just don't want to because they disagree with them.
Sure, there are different types of scripts, some are fair some aren't. The problem is that allowing people to use some types but not others is hard, so I guess again, some spoil it for everyone else.
The devs obviously think that skill shouldnt be measured by how good your script is and good on them for deciding so. With scripting you can pretty much run multiple attacks at the fastest possible speed the game will allow them, whilst someone not using scripts would have a few seconds delay in their reaction time. You can even aim to a certain extent with scripts. (cl_pitchup etc.)
I imagine an able scripter could use cl_pitchup and calculate the optimum angle to "leap" so that you travel the furthest distance. So again, is scripting which allows someone to travel faster fair?
All I can say is go play some games in another mod where scripting is pretty big (HLDM/S&I) and play some of their better players that use scripts, and don't use them yourself and I'm pretty certain you will get owned. Not necessarily because you aren't as good, but because their scripts are better than yours.
Come on is it that hard why try to make everything a 1 button process play the game the way its made dont try to make ur own little script thinking ur sly or whatever you wanna call it ... its very simple if you never have/had used a script your not gonna know about them not everyone is into hacks/cheats/scripts etc etc as you are so no they wont know about scripting as well as you, and as for not only knowing about them also they will play the game like its ment and get better and better...
SCRIPTS are what RUINS CS you got **obscenity** hackers that wanna come in and try to show off the frags well, golf clap to you , now go learn how to play like normal ppl.
Another thing i wish they would get rid of the frags for the aliens too why have one and not the other??? Its pointless cuz all the fragwhores out there will wanna get on aliens just so the can rack up them numbers... Well this isnt CS the point of the game isnt in any way form or fasion who gets the most kills its who wins in the end frags shouldnt be shown at all it would definately benefit everyone IMO.
<!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> > <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> forever ....muahhahah
Pressing 1 key to do the same thing that someone else has to press several keys to do is an advantage.
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Most of the time it's not. If i make a script that jump/crouches for me, how is that an advantage? EVERYONE can jump crouch and it's VERY easy. The only thing is that they have to use an extra key. That doesn't make me any faster at jump crouching, it just makes the task less meanial. There's no skill in jump crouching. So why shouldn't i be able to write:
alias +hijump "+jump;wait;+duck"
alias -hijump "-jump;wait;-duck"
bind hijump enter
(not sure if coding is exactly on, it's been a while since i used this one)
I don't even see how cl_pitchup and such commands could be useful. Travel faster? The only time speed is REALLY important is in the begining of the map, and leap isn't even availible then. The rest of the time this script would be more of a hinderance than a help. These kinds of things scripts just can't do well.
Remember people trying to make a bunnyhop script? They were partially successful but really it only worked on lans (where pings never changed) because the task was too complicated. Scripts do not give advantages, they simply make it easier to perform rudimentry tasks that involve no skill. Switching between 2 weapons very fast is a skill now? I can switch weapons and attack as fast as probably any script at the same time as being more accurate than said script.
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Please don't get scripts confused with hacks. Scripts are obvious means put in there by the developers to help normal players perform skillless tasks easier.
CS has HACKS which are tampering with code that was never ment to be changed.
And bridger u said your self right there in your post:
"The only thing is that they have to use an extra key. That doesn't make me any faster at jump crouching, it just makes the task less meanial"
what you just said is exactly what give u that extra "edge"
That extra key is the part that makes it faster.. thats the point ppl are getting at and dont want, why is it so hard for ppl like you for instance to just play the game like it is dont add anything nor take anything away ??
That extra key is the part that makes it faster.. thats the point ppl are getting at and dont want, why is it so hard for ppl like you for instance to just play the game like it is dont add anything nor take anything away ??<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, that key *doesn't* make me faster. I can't jump crouch any faster than somebody without the script. It simply makes a tedious and otherwise skilless task into one of more simplicity and is friendlier to the hand.
That does not mean i can jump crouch better/faster. Another good example is when i used to play old TF you had to hit 'B' then '1' to build a sentry, B then 2 to upgrade it etc. It just braught up a menu you had to select from. I created binds so i hit 1 key and it would build (hit it again to destroy). another key upgraded, another gave ammo and repaired. All would normaly be in the menu. I could *maybe* upgrade/repair/whatever my gun a miniscule bit faster than others. That's not why i used it. I used it because it was easier for my hands to manuver, i didn't have to reach all the way over to the number buttons.
If a script takes advantage of an exploit thats a blatant cheat, but otherwise it's put there for average players to use. Scripts have been used and accepted in all forms of TFC competition as well as CS competition. Weapon switches and other scripts that do not exploit bugs are PUT THERE FOR YOU TO USE. If you don't use them it's your own fault. I've made my own scripts availible for others to use many times. I wouldn't expect the average gamer to learn the scripting (though it is very easy, i suggest anyone who is intrested check out a site about it). It <i>hardly</i> gives a noticable advantage to anybody as long as your not exploiting a bug. I'm not going to even get 1 more frag using scripts than without using them.
My question still stands
Why cant ppl just play games like they are made not add anything nor take anything away???
its not a hard question give me your excuses why...scripts are for lazy ppl that dont wanna press one more button well that one button could take that half a second longer for a skulk to come by and eat ur happy backside thats what im getting at... not trying to start an argument with you.
<!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> > <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo-->
Well, I can't speak for anyone other than myself, but IMHO games that expose scripting/customization interfaces make playing a more 'personal' experience. After playing so many quake derivatives, I've come to expect that a certain level of "low-level" control in all games, starting with the ability to re-map <u>all</u> keys. When a game comes along that doesn't support even this basic level of control, I immediately consider it of lower quality. Conflict:Desert Storm is a good example of a game that fails to satisfy these requirements. It does not allow a player to successfully create a personalized keyboard layout, and a quick analysis of the binaries leave nothing to the imagination: each map is embedded in a single DLL with a single, mangled, entry-point. The game was marginally entertaining, but the lack of customization and/or extensibility has condemned it to the worst fate a game could suffer: rotting on my shelf.
I also come from the school of though that believes the more educated players should indeed be allowed to reap the benefits of their studies. As was previously mentioned on this thread, <u>all</u> players have access to the same script commands, and usually, the same scripts. The biggest segregation scripting makes is between motivated players and those that are too lazy to learn the intricies of the game they enjoy. Personally, I think this is a welcome side-effect, as research, experimentation and hard work are rewarded.
Now I have no intelligent comments with regards to that thin line between a script and a cheat, but I guess it's just a side effect of giving players the control they desire. I can only imagine the headaches it causes the dev teams, but I believe their efforts are worthwhile.
Dave
Why cant ppl just play games like they are made not add anything nor take anything away???
its not a hard question give me your excuses why...scripts are for lazy ppl that dont wanna press one more button well that one button could take that half a second longer for a skulk to come by and eat ur happy backside thats what im getting at... not trying to start an argument with you.
<!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> > <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
lazy implies not wanting to do physical work. I'm not sure moving your finger to press a button counts as physical work.
Why can't i play games like they are made? Why can't you play HL like it was made? Why do you have to play a mod insted of the orriginal? Why play NS as oposed to DoD?
It's a matter of taste and ease. If i have to be bothered to perform complicated manuvers with my hands the game stops being fun. Games aren't suposed to be "ok, lets have fun memorizing how to crouch jump!" They are suposed to be fun. Having fun to me means that if i can make a tedious task simpler without affecting the gameplay of others, i'll do it. I'm sure that's what flayra had in mind when he created the nice user-interface menu. Insted of binding your whole keyboard to evovle/build things/communicate he put in a very simple menu all on 1 key.
The same logic applies to scripting. If it's not hurting anybody else than why does it matter?
I don't see any advantage gained by being able to switch weapons with a single button insted of 2, or being able to jump and crouch with the same button. These kinds of scripts are simple and have no real effect on the game. Sure in maybe 1/100000 times there's a situation in which .01 seconds CAN mean the difference between life/death but it's so rare that the advantage gained in speed of scripts is negligable (unless exploiting of course).
There is no doubt in my mind that i have no advantage over other players (short of my hardware, i have a fast comp and a cable modem). If i own a server it's because the other people had less skill than me (or i'm lucky <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->), not because i can jump-crouch with 1 key insted of 2.
Well, I can't speak for anyone other than myself, but IMHO games that expose scripting/customization interfaces make playing a more 'personal' experience. After playing so many quake derivatives, I've come to expect that a certain level of "low-level" control in all games, starting with the ability to re-map <u>all</u> keys. When a game comes along that doesn't support even this basic level of control, I immediately consider it of lower quality. Conflict:Desert Storm is a good example of a game that fails to satisfy these requirements. It does not allow a player to successfully create a personalized keyboard layout, and a quick analysis of the binaries leave nothing to the imagination: each map is embedded in a single DLL with a single, mangled, entry-point. The game was marginally entertaining, but the lack of customization and/or extensibility has condemned it to the worst fate a game could suffer: rotting on my shelf.
I also come from the school of though that believes the more educated players should indeed be allowed to reap the benefits of their studies. As was previously mentioned on this thread, <u>all</u> players have access to the same script commands, and usually, the same scripts. The biggest segregation scripting makes is between motivated players and those that are too lazy to learn the intricies of the game they enjoy. Personally, I think this is a welcome side-effect, as research, experimentation and hard work are rewarded.
Now I have no intelligent comments with regards to that thin line between a script and a cheat, but I guess it's just a side effect of giving players the control they desire. I can only imagine the headaches it causes the dev teams, but I believe their efforts are worthwhile.
Dave<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
bah, ignore my post, ^^^what he said^^^ <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Ohhhhh bravo, those intelligent people who search the web and download their scripts.
Every script can be counter argued. You say that binding crouch + jump is fair? Look at it like this; you're getting chased by a Fade and you gotta jump a sentry in the way, you hit your bind and clear it easily. Whereas Joe Bloggs has to hit duck + jump and maybe get killed. No matter what script you have, it is an advantage. If Half-life (+ all mods) wanted duck + jump to be one button they would have done it.
If it is so easy to do, why do you need a script to do it?
Yes it does make you faster.
Yes it is laziness.
Yes one button can make or break you.
Yes scripting should be disabled on any game.
Yes i hope the "anti-scripting" kills you ppl everytime you use it.
And if you honestly beleive that there is no advantage you need to get some help, how can you NOT see that pushing 1 button as opposed to 2 not being an advantage??
Take your infomous jump-crouching for instance say you have a turret to jump over and a fade is on your **obscenity** shooting acid rockets, well you just push one buttin u duck and jump all together , while the other guy has to press two buttons, which does take a split second to think of the keyboard, instead of jumping with one button...and pop goes the marine without a script
correct me if im wrong i know you guys will anywas but its fine.
And as for the guy who said your experimentation and hard work rewarded? lmao how does that have anything to do with a video a 10 yr old kid could be playing this game just because he hasnt been to school for scripts,OS,msn... stuff like that your saying he should be deprived of it due to not being able to "experiment and research" i mean come on man think about its a video game not a damn college course.
At the same time, currently, I've been killed repeatedly by the anti-script code with fast weapon switching OFF, and no scripts at all.
The point where a perfectly legitimate, honest player is killed for 'cheating' is the point where the cheat-prevention has gone too far. One false positive is far too many if the penalty is, effectively, death.
At the same time, what if the user interface just plain sucks? Take the commander build console, for instance. One could re-implement it onto a joystick hat to act like the 'spider web' menus already work, tapping out sequences of commands and build orders rather than playing a proven-harder game of click-the-right-pixels.
Trying to 'block' scripts like they have, or in any way at all really, is futile. There are far more capable scripting systems out there, available with any $20 game controller and some $20 USB keyboards, than the 'alias' command can be used for.
As a whole, the industry, and game players everywhere, have decided something the Natural Selection developers disagree with, that scripting multiple actions to a single key is a bad thing, that people need to have a seperate key for every action, and take the time to shuffle them.
What about those people that have more than 100 keys available to them in densely-packed configurations? Or those that have multiple command pads available to them? Even without using 'scripts' they can do the same thing with basic binds, and rolling their hand across a sequence of keys for timing, or just hitting them all roughly at once.
These are not theoretical ideas either, they're all available from my local Fry's Electronics for about as much as a meal at some local restraunts. Explain how they ever physically could stop these, without 'catching' perfectly legitimate players that weren't using any of these 'scripting' methods, and I'll go along happily into a script-free world.
But currently... such a world cannot exist. The technology that makes Half-Life possible to begin with, or Natural Selection, prevents any type of 'anti-scripting' from working.
w00ters! best script ever!
Most of the time it's not. If i make a script that jump/crouches for me, how is that an advantage? EVERYONE can jump crouch and it's VERY easy. The only thing is that they have to use an extra key. That doesn't make me any faster at jump crouching, it just makes the task less meanial.
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Thats the entire point, everyone else has to do a more complex task than you do, that there is a disadvantage. Fair enough, a jump duck script isn't so bad, but there are more complex scripts than that, I'll cover some types later.
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I don't even see how cl_pitchup and such commands could be useful. Travel faster? The only time speed is REALLY important is in the begining of the map, and leap isn't even availible then. The rest of the time this script would be more of a hinderance than a help. These kinds of things scripts just can't do well.
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So you've never had a marine spot you and you either had to get away fast, or close the distance between you and him fast to kill him before he kills you? Speed is VERY important at all times. You ain't gonna do well if a marine starts shooting at you and you hold down walk and toddle up to nibble his ankles.
Here's a script I've found for other mods which is a perfect example of the advantages scripting can give for such things:
alias wait2 "wait;wait"
alias wait4 "wait2;wait2"
alias gaussjump "cl_pitchup -110;+back;wait4;wait2;+jump;wait4;wait2;-attack2;-jump;wait4;wait2;-back;fixpitch;force_centerview"
alias fixpitch "cl_pitchup 89;cl_pitchdown 89"
A script to perform a perfect Gauss jump by simply aiming at where you want to get to, and pressing a button. Now Gauss jumping isn't hard, but it's not such a simple task as jump+duck. Would you consider this fair? To Gauss jump without a script, you need to charge the Gauss, then you need to turn your back to whereever you want to travel (assuming that you want to get any distance that is and not straight up vertically) then you need to jump and duck and let go of the trigger and pray you are aiming at where you want to go, of course its hard to tell when you have your back to the target. Now all this can be done by one button, and you don't even have to turn your back to the target to get the right angle, because a command in scripting allows you to look at an angle you can't usually with the normal game. Ever tried looking up and noticed that the view locks at about 89 degrees? Scripting can let you look even further which is ideal for such scripts as gauss jumping.
Now this is another mod, maybe things can't be exploited as much in NS, well take things like blink and leap and xenocide. If a skulk was allowed to trigger xenocide, then leap to an enemy, chomp him a few seconds with bite before exploding all using a single button, is that fair? Anyone else that has to do that would have to press "4, click (to select), click (to activate), 3, click (to select), click (to activate), 1, click (to select), click (several times to activate whilst waiting to explode)"
Thats 9+ keypressed which can be scripted to a single key, can you press all of those in order, with good timing, whilst aiming, at the same speed of someone that has it assigned to a single key? Even if you can, why should someone have the advantage of 9+ keys ina single keypress when everyone else has to do such a complicated procedure.
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I also come from the school of though that believes the more educated players should indeed be allowed to reap the benefits of their studies. As was previously mentioned on this thread, all players have access to the same script commands, and usually, the same scripts. The biggest segregation scripting makes is between motivated players and those that are too lazy to learn the intricies of the game they enjoy. Personally, I think this is a welcome side-effect, as research, experimentation and hard work are rewarded.
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I agree that intelligent players should be rewarded, but by ingame intelligence. IF you can think of strategies and tactics, thats using your brain and rewards you.
The part you say about "anyone can use scripts" well, anyone can use aimbots, wallhacks, speedhacks, etc. In other mods, does that make it ok for everyone to use them? It should do because ANYONE can use them if they want to. Why don't they then? Because they disagree with them, some people want to play the game how it was designed, and have the same chance as everyone else, they don't see it to be fair to have an advantage over others, this is why some people refuse to use scripts, the same reason some people refuse to use cheats.
Another point, should someone that has the intelligence to code an aimbot in a programming language be rewarded? It certainly takes intelligence to do that, you'd have to know the language, probably have to learn a lot about the game mechanics, so he should be praised and people should congratulate him on killing everything in sight without even having to touch the keyboard shouldn't he...
Sarcasm as you may have gathered.
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The same logic applies to scripting. If it's not hurting anybody else than why does it matter?
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The point where a perfectly legitimate, honest player is killed for 'cheating' is the point where the cheat-prevention has gone too far. One false positive is far too many if the penalty is, effectively, death.
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Yup, I agree. I don't think EVERY type of script should be forbidden as some are harmless, but some spoil it for others. If there is a better way to prevent the bad types of scripting whilst letting nice types continue, I believe Flayra will try to find it.
Yeah, I've gotten peeved off with the anti-script code as it triggers for people that don't use scripts. This doesn't mean I think that code should be removed, just improved. I'm patient enough to wait until the code is fixed. In the meantime I can cope with the occasional death by leaping. If you CAN'T put up with it, just wait for a new release and play somethign that does allow scripting until, I'm sure this problem will be worked on.
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Explain how they ever physically could stop these, without 'catching' perfectly legitimate players that weren't using any of these 'scripting' methods, and I'll go along happily into a script-free world.
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Like I said about cheating, it's possible but that doesn't mean people should have the right to do it.
Conclusion? Some scripts are harmless, others aren't. We should be allowed to use the harmless ones, but if there is no other way to prevent the non-harmless ones than preventing both types, so be it. The code to prevent such scripts isn't faultless yet, this is a first release remember. Try to be patient. I'm sure dying unjustly is frustrating, but no more than getting your *** kicked by someone who can just script the same attack sequences in a few minutes, that took you a month to perfect.