Interesting Pov.
Jim_has_Skillz
Join Date: 2003-01-19 Member: 12475Members, Constellation
Join Date: 2003-01-19 Member: 12475Members, Constellation
in Discussions
<div class="IPBDescription">Friends thoughts on Iraq and Oil.</div> Background: My friend is a republican and he loves money... Ok that should be enough to post the rest of this.
This is his Point of View on the whole topic, after reading this, tell me what you think about it.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><edited for safety>: peak oil
jimhasskillz: yeha
<edited for safety>: is when oil produciton will peak
<edited for safety>: and decline forever
<edited for safety>: until we run out
<edited for safety> wants to directly connect.
<edited for safety> is now directly connected.
<edited for safety>: now
<edited for safety>: as of today
<edited for safety>: to balance supply with demand
<edited for safety>: of oil
<edited for safety>: oil would need to be 182 dollars a barrel
<edited for safety>: or raher, 7 dollars a gallon
jimhasskillz: lol
<edited for safety>: demans is epxected to dobule
<edited for safety>: by 2023
<edited for safety>: and supply will be amost halved by then.
<edited for safety>: so then that would mke the requirement 3.......94
jimhasskillz: have we reached our peak oil
<edited for safety>: no, it is projected for 2006
jimhasskillz: ah
<edited for safety>: now
<edited for safety>: the US economis is driven by peak oil
<edited for safety>: i mean
<edited for safety>: cheap oil*
<edited for safety>: we have given money to saudis
<edited for safety>: to help develop their infrasturcutre
<edited for safety>: money, and people to united arab ermiates
jimhasskillz: k
<edited for safety>: qatar, we give military to
jimhasskillz: what are you getting at
<edited for safety>: so
<edited for safety>: as peak oil approaches, hoqwever
<edited for safety>: they are becoming less and less of a reliable source
<edited for safety>: of cheap oil
<edited for safety>: and right whn peak oil occurs
<edited for safety>: the entire.
<edited for safety>: worlds
<edited for safety>: economy
<edited for safety>: will
<edited for safety>: **** up.
<edited for safety>: unless of coruse
jimhasskillz: ur predicting this?
<edited for safety>: something is done about it
<edited for safety>: no no
<edited for safety>: its obvious
<edited for safety>: no plans for fuel cell airplanes
<edited for safety>: so we can't fly
<edited for safety>: and since no fuel cell cars are even viable yet
<edited for safety>: production will fall
<edited for safety>: no demand for steel
<edited for safety>: another staple product
<edited for safety>: no demand for steel, no demand for coal
<edited for safety>: those are the backgones of our economy
<edited for safety>: no flying
<edited for safety>: no driving
<edited for safety>: no space exploration
jimhasskillz: so your saying another depression sort of
<edited for safety>: our ecvonomy will crash
<edited for safety>: except its the entire world
<edited for safety>: hell, no boats evel
<edited for safety>: unless its sailboats
jimhasskillz: lol
<edited for safety>: global trade will come to a standstill
<edited for safety>: NOW
<edited for safety>: there are two large resderves of oil left in the world
<edited for safety>: number one is under the caspian sea
<edited for safety>: it was discovered mid 2002
<edited for safety>: and can extend oil supplies by 20-30 years they say
<edited for safety>: the other of course is in iraq
<edited for safety>: but iraq the implication is obvious
<edited for safety>: so we'l go back to caspian
<edited for safety>: there are two viable methods of extracting the oil
<edited for safety>: the countries themsevles are friendly to the US
<edited for safety>: and they have dirlling equipent
<edited for safety>: but they're kinda screwed czu theres no way to transport it
<edited for safety>: tere is the proposal of the pipeline
<edited for safety>: that leads from baku, in azerbaijan
<edited for safety>: to ceyhan, in georgia
<edited for safety>: this would go across 3 erathquat fault lines
<edited for safety>: kill a few people
jimhasskillz: wow u have really been researching this
<edited for safety>: most likely
<edited for safety>: in its construciton
<edited for safety>: and cause wars regionally
<edited for safety>: over the pipeline
<edited for safety>: and leaves about 3,000 miles of pipline exposed to terrorist attack as well
<edited for safety>: [none of those countries are very stable]
<edited for safety>: THE OTHER ALTERNATIVE
<edited for safety>: is a pipline down from turkenistan to pakistan
<edited for safety>: both are friendly allies
<edited for safety>: through....
<edited for safety>: afghanistan
<edited for safety>: now
<edited for safety>: if we control both places
<edited for safety>: we control, in a few yeras
<edited for safety>: prboably all the oil thats left in the world
<edited for safety>: well exclusion of russia
<edited for safety>: and the smallass deposits
<edited for safety>: if we control the oil
<edited for safety>: we can still enjoy relatively cheap oil prices
<edited for safety>: by charging everyone else razy prices.
<edited for safety>: our economy will keep chugging on
<edited for safety>: because we can control every aspect of this that's left
<edited for safety>: its an inelastic good
<edited for safety>: no matter how much we charge
<edited for safety>: other countries will buy it
<edited for safety>: because they need it.
<edited for safety>: all other economies will become completely dependent on the US
<edited for safety>: the world may rise up against us
<edited for safety>: but if they dont have oil
<edited for safety>: for their tanks
<edited for safety>: or anything for their planes
<edited for safety>: they realy cant do anything either.
<edited for safety>: peak oil, my friend.
<edited for safety>: of course
<edited for safety>: busdh cant say hes doing it for the oil
jimhasskillz: lol
<edited for safety>: if he says it
<edited for safety>: even england wont help us
jimhasskillz: well, we all know he can't say that, but this makes it a little more clear why he is doing it
<edited for safety>: hes saving the country
<edited for safety>: in the future.
<edited for safety>: theres a quote in saudi arabia
<edited for safety>: "my grandfather rode a camel, my father drove a car, i fly an airplane, my son will ride a camel."
jimhasskillz: haha nice
<edited for safety>: if this is true
<edited for safety>: bush is the leadership genius.
<edited for safety>: think of the ramnifications:
<edited for safety>: no more deficit
<edited for safety>: hella surplus
<edited for safety>: oru standard of living will be 5000 times more than anywher else in the world
<edited for safety>: since everyone else will be rdiign camels
<edited for safety>: and horses
<edited for safety>: the opposite is just equally grave
jimhasskillz: lol
<edited for safety>: the entire worlds economy crashes at once
<edited for safety>: short of any solution to the problem
<edited for safety>: if the US can extend the oil supply for itself
<edited for safety>: we can continue to develop
<edited for safety>: fuel cell cars
<edited for safety>: etc etc
<edited for safety>: we are the country that is doing 90% of research
<edited for safety>: for alternative fuels
<edited for safety>: oh yes i forgot to add
<edited for safety>: no oil = no heaters
jimhasskillz: well thats probably cuz we use the most of it
<edited for safety>: no water heters
<edited for safety>: electricity will be scarce
<edited for safety>: coal is mined using gasoline powered machines
<edited for safety>: nuclear can proably still run<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is his Point of View on the whole topic, after reading this, tell me what you think about it.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><edited for safety>: peak oil
jimhasskillz: yeha
<edited for safety>: is when oil produciton will peak
<edited for safety>: and decline forever
<edited for safety>: until we run out
<edited for safety> wants to directly connect.
<edited for safety> is now directly connected.
<edited for safety>: now
<edited for safety>: as of today
<edited for safety>: to balance supply with demand
<edited for safety>: of oil
<edited for safety>: oil would need to be 182 dollars a barrel
<edited for safety>: or raher, 7 dollars a gallon
jimhasskillz: lol
<edited for safety>: demans is epxected to dobule
<edited for safety>: by 2023
<edited for safety>: and supply will be amost halved by then.
<edited for safety>: so then that would mke the requirement 3.......94
jimhasskillz: have we reached our peak oil
<edited for safety>: no, it is projected for 2006
jimhasskillz: ah
<edited for safety>: now
<edited for safety>: the US economis is driven by peak oil
<edited for safety>: i mean
<edited for safety>: cheap oil*
<edited for safety>: we have given money to saudis
<edited for safety>: to help develop their infrasturcutre
<edited for safety>: money, and people to united arab ermiates
jimhasskillz: k
<edited for safety>: qatar, we give military to
jimhasskillz: what are you getting at
<edited for safety>: so
<edited for safety>: as peak oil approaches, hoqwever
<edited for safety>: they are becoming less and less of a reliable source
<edited for safety>: of cheap oil
<edited for safety>: and right whn peak oil occurs
<edited for safety>: the entire.
<edited for safety>: worlds
<edited for safety>: economy
<edited for safety>: will
<edited for safety>: **** up.
<edited for safety>: unless of coruse
jimhasskillz: ur predicting this?
<edited for safety>: something is done about it
<edited for safety>: no no
<edited for safety>: its obvious
<edited for safety>: no plans for fuel cell airplanes
<edited for safety>: so we can't fly
<edited for safety>: and since no fuel cell cars are even viable yet
<edited for safety>: production will fall
<edited for safety>: no demand for steel
<edited for safety>: another staple product
<edited for safety>: no demand for steel, no demand for coal
<edited for safety>: those are the backgones of our economy
<edited for safety>: no flying
<edited for safety>: no driving
<edited for safety>: no space exploration
jimhasskillz: so your saying another depression sort of
<edited for safety>: our ecvonomy will crash
<edited for safety>: except its the entire world
<edited for safety>: hell, no boats evel
<edited for safety>: unless its sailboats
jimhasskillz: lol
<edited for safety>: global trade will come to a standstill
<edited for safety>: NOW
<edited for safety>: there are two large resderves of oil left in the world
<edited for safety>: number one is under the caspian sea
<edited for safety>: it was discovered mid 2002
<edited for safety>: and can extend oil supplies by 20-30 years they say
<edited for safety>: the other of course is in iraq
<edited for safety>: but iraq the implication is obvious
<edited for safety>: so we'l go back to caspian
<edited for safety>: there are two viable methods of extracting the oil
<edited for safety>: the countries themsevles are friendly to the US
<edited for safety>: and they have dirlling equipent
<edited for safety>: but they're kinda screwed czu theres no way to transport it
<edited for safety>: tere is the proposal of the pipeline
<edited for safety>: that leads from baku, in azerbaijan
<edited for safety>: to ceyhan, in georgia
<edited for safety>: this would go across 3 erathquat fault lines
<edited for safety>: kill a few people
jimhasskillz: wow u have really been researching this
<edited for safety>: most likely
<edited for safety>: in its construciton
<edited for safety>: and cause wars regionally
<edited for safety>: over the pipeline
<edited for safety>: and leaves about 3,000 miles of pipline exposed to terrorist attack as well
<edited for safety>: [none of those countries are very stable]
<edited for safety>: THE OTHER ALTERNATIVE
<edited for safety>: is a pipline down from turkenistan to pakistan
<edited for safety>: both are friendly allies
<edited for safety>: through....
<edited for safety>: afghanistan
<edited for safety>: now
<edited for safety>: if we control both places
<edited for safety>: we control, in a few yeras
<edited for safety>: prboably all the oil thats left in the world
<edited for safety>: well exclusion of russia
<edited for safety>: and the smallass deposits
<edited for safety>: if we control the oil
<edited for safety>: we can still enjoy relatively cheap oil prices
<edited for safety>: by charging everyone else razy prices.
<edited for safety>: our economy will keep chugging on
<edited for safety>: because we can control every aspect of this that's left
<edited for safety>: its an inelastic good
<edited for safety>: no matter how much we charge
<edited for safety>: other countries will buy it
<edited for safety>: because they need it.
<edited for safety>: all other economies will become completely dependent on the US
<edited for safety>: the world may rise up against us
<edited for safety>: but if they dont have oil
<edited for safety>: for their tanks
<edited for safety>: or anything for their planes
<edited for safety>: they realy cant do anything either.
<edited for safety>: peak oil, my friend.
<edited for safety>: of course
<edited for safety>: busdh cant say hes doing it for the oil
jimhasskillz: lol
<edited for safety>: if he says it
<edited for safety>: even england wont help us
jimhasskillz: well, we all know he can't say that, but this makes it a little more clear why he is doing it
<edited for safety>: hes saving the country
<edited for safety>: in the future.
<edited for safety>: theres a quote in saudi arabia
<edited for safety>: "my grandfather rode a camel, my father drove a car, i fly an airplane, my son will ride a camel."
jimhasskillz: haha nice
<edited for safety>: if this is true
<edited for safety>: bush is the leadership genius.
<edited for safety>: think of the ramnifications:
<edited for safety>: no more deficit
<edited for safety>: hella surplus
<edited for safety>: oru standard of living will be 5000 times more than anywher else in the world
<edited for safety>: since everyone else will be rdiign camels
<edited for safety>: and horses
<edited for safety>: the opposite is just equally grave
jimhasskillz: lol
<edited for safety>: the entire worlds economy crashes at once
<edited for safety>: short of any solution to the problem
<edited for safety>: if the US can extend the oil supply for itself
<edited for safety>: we can continue to develop
<edited for safety>: fuel cell cars
<edited for safety>: etc etc
<edited for safety>: we are the country that is doing 90% of research
<edited for safety>: for alternative fuels
<edited for safety>: oh yes i forgot to add
<edited for safety>: no oil = no heaters
jimhasskillz: well thats probably cuz we use the most of it
<edited for safety>: no water heters
<edited for safety>: electricity will be scarce
<edited for safety>: coal is mined using gasoline powered machines
<edited for safety>: nuclear can proably still run<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Comments
Russia is in negotiations with the EU to exploit these ressources in the near future.
Why do you think Putis was agaisnst Iraq? Because of his peaceloving nature?
No, becasue an Iraq under US dominace would mean a comtetitor to future russian oil exports.
So no, the US have no possibility to idefinately rise Oil prizes, because Russia will also supply it. Since Russia is intersted in trade relatioins with the EU. they will be partners. There are plans about cooperation with Russia for their ressources, to create a paneuropean trade zone that excludes foreing goods and work force, much like the US is in itself.
Russia is in negotiations with the EU to exploit these ressources in the near future.
Why do you think Putis was agaisnst Iraq? Because of his peaceloving nature?
No, becasue an Iraq under US dominace would mean a comtetitor to future russian oil exports.
So no, the US have no possibility to idefinately rise Oil prizes, because Russia will also supply it. Since Russia is intersted in trade relatioins with the EU. they will be partners. There are plans about cooperation with Russia for their ressources, to create a paneuropean trade zone that excludes foreing goods and work force, much like the US is in itself. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes but that doesn't explain why they have to pay around $200 dollars for a barrel of oil while we have to spend $50 dollars. We spend $2 bucks on a gallon of gas here, they spend $7.
Where did you that figure? (200$ per barrel?)
Think about it. The Earth has existed for what, 4.5 billion years now?
And we've used quite a lot of the oil reserves on this planet in 300 years, even less.
Nobody knows how much oil we actually have left, but that's not important (in relation to my argument). How could that theory be right, that oil is constantly being produced in the magma? You're saying that those 100 million barrels (<a href='http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/FTPROOT/presentations/ieo2000/sld007.htm' target='_blank'>source)</a> of oil that we use each day are replenished this fast?
Oil, and fossil fuels in general, originate from previous living matter. Imagine how much living matter needs to be properly fossilized (hmm) to make up for our usage of oil.
Conclusion: no, oil is not going to be replenished tomorrow, in a year, or in 2 million years.
Think about it. The Earth has existed for what, 4.5 billion years now?
And we've used quite a lot of the oil reserves on this planet in 300 years, even less.
Nobody knows how much oil we actually have left, but that's not important (in relation to my argument). How could that theory be right, that oil is constantly being produced in the magma? You're saying that those 100 million barrels (<a href='http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/FTPROOT/presentations/ieo2000/sld007.htm' target='_blank'>source)</a> of oil that we use each day are replenished this fast?
Oil, and fossil fuels in general, originate from previous living matter. Imagine how much living matter needs to be properly fossilized (hmm) to make up for our usage of oil.
Conclusion: no, oil is not going to be replenished tomorrow, in a year, or in 2 million years. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't intend to argue point. I can site the fact that we haven't been able to tap more than 30 percent of any deposit with our current pumping methods though, or the fact that it is possible to produce synthetic oil. Its a vauge possibilty, a hypothisis, I haven't done any recearch, but it doesn't change the fact that there is still alot of oil out there, even if we have used a fair bit already.
Where did you that figure? (200$ per barrel?) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ok, I forgot to mention this part but I am going to what my Republican Friend told me. This doesn't mean its true, I am just going to use it for this discussion. If you prove me wrong, all the better then I can bring that aspect to him and he can try and repute it.
Actually I wish OPEC would raise the cost to $4 per gallon at it would make thermal depolymerization a pratical economoic soultion and thus ending the US desire to import oil. But they are not stupid, they know they must keep the price of import oil <i>cheaper</i> than home made or they'll loose many many billions of or revenue. The american economy just goes for the cheapest, it's just they way it works people. You work on reducing the cost of thermal depolymerization to what imported costs right now and I'll bet you OPEC will reduce their prices in order to keep their american customers buying from them.
If I had a starship fleet with teleporters I'd start hauling all of the oil out of the Middle East until there was nothing left and put it far, far way. Sure I'd get ICMBs launched at my ships but if successful it would force two hugely beneficial things to happen: the stupid humans have to get off Earth to get that oil or they would have to make their own, and *gasp* we have the technology to make that easily possible. Guys, we are not, repeat <i>not</i>, going to run out of oil ever. The current state of affairs is simple macroeconomics.
<span style='color:orange'>related post nuked</span>
That is not really a conspiracy theory. He based that asumtion on rational thoughts. It is normal for any governing entity to tap rescources in oder to have the upper hand over its competitors. Whether it is a government or a company does not matter. Take the water shortage in the middle east. Turkey is daming up the Eufrat, which is one of the larges water supplys in the area. They overuse the water reserves for their large agricultural enterprises in south Turkey.The drawback is, that the Eufrat is carrying significantly less water than its supposed to do, and the water is contaminated by agricultural byproducts. This way, large areas of Syria and Iraq which were formerly fertile are now barren.
hose countries cannot defend against this policy, as The turkish army is superior and they are part of NATO.
Similar effects are visible in Mexico due to the extensive overuse on the Colorado River on the US side of the border.
That is a clearly visible behavior, where natural ressources are exploited to an extent where it is harmfull for others.
Most certainly. Especially because in case of actual shortages, there will be alternatives. it is a matter of nessecity. Creating a shortage makes resssources valuable. In case you actually were able to create oil artificially, many very rich people would loose much money. Simple fact. Same with alternate technologies like Hydogen fule cells. They are deemed not advanced enough to replace oil or gas in everydays life. If they were, it would be desastrous because people could heat their homes basically with water...
For military demands, however, those hesitations seem of no matter, as Germanys new type 212 and 214 submarines are equipped with hydrogene fuel cell, that allow prolonged submerged operation.
For the more advanced 214 variant, Simens developed impoved fuel cells that provide 120kW power and allow 2 weeks of diving. That is in comparison to the 212 cells which provide only 50 kW maximum.
Note that this development was achieved within the period of time while the first 212 was not even done with sea trials.
This should make obvious the potential of such technologies and the possibility to development them to an extent where they rival more conventional energy sources.
So, in your opinion, we will never run out of oil? We can easily keep driving those gas-guzzling SUVs and throwing out heaps and heaps of oil-made products with no reprecussions?
Genius. "Infinity" only exists as a concept in mathematics. It does not apply to quantity of oil, speed of light or anything else for that matter.