Osama's Full Speech
Nurot
Join Date: 2003-12-04 Member: 23932Members, Constellation
Join Date: 2003-12-04 Member: 23932Members, Constellation
in Discussions
<div class="IPBDescription">We've been hosed!</div> Well wow..... I'm serious we have been played hardcore. How right Osama is..... <a href='http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/11/01/binladen.tape/index.html' target='_blank'>http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/11/01/...tape/index.html</a>
Comments
I think its interesting how they think that their war in afghanistan was what caused the entire soviet union to bleed dry, leading to total economic collapse. The most they did was stop the SU's expansion into afghanistan, theres no way they caused a total collapse of an empire from some guerrilla fighting in some desolate country.
But, this is how they think, and as the article states, this is what they plan on doing to the US. I don't think they realize how impossible this will be, but they are trying
This is a weak attempt to reinforce the appeasement ideology of useful idiots. The only thing missing was the "Paid for by the Democratic National Committee" message required at the end of a political ad. Fortunately, Kerry immediately denounced Bin Laden and once again threatened him with death.
I would place Osama's message in the column of "Media Troll".
Unnecessary.
I agree with the rest of Spooge's comment that this was designed from the ground up to have shock value. The core assertion is correct, though -- the US is spending a *lot* more money than Al Qaeda is. Is there any way to avoid it? At this point, not really.
One question I'd like to discuss is something Bin Laden said: "states that do not make war against us will be safe" or something to that effect. I'm going to assume he was talking about national states - countries - and not individual US states, but even then I have questions.
1) If he is offering to not attack states that do not get involved, why did he attack the Trade Center in the first place?
2) *Is* this evidence that Al Qaeda is being strung thin, and Bin Laden is trying to get a little breathing room? The Bush administration claims they have captured or killed 75% of top Al Qaeda members, a number that is impossible to verify.
3) Or is it a ruse by Bin Laden to remove some of the pressure on him and his organization so they can regroup for a more devastating attack?
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Because America was involved before then. We're basically camping what they consider to be holy ground and we've continually interfeered with their affairs since at least the start fo the cold war.
Not taht I agree with the whole mass-slaughter of innocents thing, but I do kinda see their point.
Funny spooge <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> , but as coil said, unecesscary <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> .
...along with the fact we didn't go bankrupt because of it...
[plus, that whole...communist...political...stateish...thing...]
Man, he doesn't even need to be beat down for killing innocent people anymore, he needs to be beat down for being a moron <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> .
And, last I checked, we didn't have troops racing across the desert to capture small groups of terrorists, we just kind of...camp outside cities while they mortar us.
3) Or is it a ruse by Bin Laden to remove some of the pressure on him and his organization so they can regroup for a more devastating attack? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
My assumption off the bat was that this message was to reinforce the idea (among his followers) that he is unstoppable. There's no question that since Sept 11 al Qaeda has been on the defensive and Middle Easterners have gotten more than a taste of American military power. If he didn't pop up once in a while to sermonize, his followers might get the impression that he is failing (from his point of view).
I am equally sure that he believes everything he says in the video, from having the power to influence elections (reinforced by Madrid, of course) to his campaign to bankrupt the gov't. Furthermore, he's no fool and I can't see how anyone would assume that an attention-seeking video would <i>relieve</i> pressure on al Qaeda.
Do I think this will have any bearing on the election? No, but that may be because I don't know any of those mythical "swing voters." Everyone I meet is quite decided, and happenings like these only serve to magically reinforce their preconcieved worldview.
Im actually going to agree with Bin ladens tactics, just think about it, if he wanted to he could very very easily just arm a few ppl in a us town and shoot people down in a masacre. He isnt doing that he's sniping ur economy, doing that really hurts the big companies while it doesnt really phase the normal people as much(he's not attacking the food industry so food prices wont go up). People should really show a bit of respect for Osama he is kinda doing an evil thing in the most peaceful way possible.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The total U.S. national debt is more than $7 trillion. The U.S. federal deficit was $413 billion in 2004, according to the Treasury Department.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
heh he's getting his job done.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->As for President Bush's Iraq policy, Bin Laden said, "the darkness of black gold blurred his vision and insight, and he gave priority to private interests over the public interests of America.
"So the war went ahead, the death toll rose, the American economy bled, and Bush became embroiled in the swamps of Iraq that threaten his future," bin Laden said.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Im sure osama doesnt really like iraq, they were as friendly to each other as israel is to well any muslim. But its nice to know that osama europe kerry and pretty much everyone in the world that isnt a republican agrees on the reason for war.
Quoted for absurdity.
You do realize that you just said Osama had more honorable tactics than the US right?
I'd have to disagree with that assumption. The entire video was a propaganda piece directed solely at US citizens. I believe some news organizations have translated it as "nations" instead of "states", but those who know translate it as "states".
Anyways, because the video itself is aimed at the American populace, I'd have to say he's refering to US states and not other countries.
Mr. Robot:
You're way off. There's no way half a million or more people have died b/c of these two wars. You're figure for Iraq is probably at least 80,000 too much on civilian casualties.
Quoted for absurdity.
You do realize that you just said Osama had more honorable tactics than the US right? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Agreed. I should take the time to refute most of your arguments Mr. Robot, but seeing how extreme, idealistic, simplistic and (all due respect) utterly absurd some of your statements are, I don't see what good it will do. I'm sure others will take the time trying to reason with you.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->For some reason, bin laden is really starting to make sense now. Is it just me, or what? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The statements on his video show how tactical he is; trying to sound reasonable and statesmen like. He is trying to garner support for his cause as well as sympathy throughout the world (especially Europe). There is a silent rage behind his words; no one is reasonable with that amount or rage, no one. Don’t let him play with your head.
However this does sound a lot like a Democrat ad, and it should be interesting to see whether or not people agree.
wow so are you bin ladens shrink now ?.? dont put words in his head k,
As for can the war on terror be won, its just like the war on drugs, its not going to win people will always fight for what they believe in, rebels, freedom fighters, terrorists will always exist because not everyone will agree on the same way to do things.
Please point to a part of my post where I put words in his mouth? K.
Observing how bin Ladan acts and comparing him to other tyrants, that is my assesment of his speech.
I hope you get visited by about 3000 ghosts tonight and have each one of them tell you just how corporate they are nothing more than "industry and government not the people."
1) The Lancet, as you should know, is not written by journalists. It is written by professional researchers in the medical profession. After they write their article, it is critically reviewed by at least two medical institutes before the editors even think about placing it. This article is not journalism, it is science. The Lancet isn't some liberal media outlet, it is one of the best scientific magazines in the world. Of course, the editors decided to release the news now, because they want to sell magazines. But they didn't invent the news, they didn't write the article, and they can't afford to lie.
2) Now, if you would have read said article, you would know why this number is so different from the one in Iraq Body Count. Iraq Body Count just measures the direct victims of violence.
Example: US plane bombs Iraqi hospital. 20 people die. That's 20 points for IBC. During the following year, another 1200 people die because they need medical attention, which they cannot get because the hospital and the doctor are now destroyed. So it's 1220 points in the Lancet count.
The extract mentions death from violence a lot, and cites it as the main cause of extra deaths. Is 100.000 victims really all that much? In a whole year? Remember, if one stray rocket accidentally hit a school, you're nearing the 1000 mark already, in just a few minutes.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Mr.Robot, this is a discussion forum. Use your best English, stay with the facts, base your arguments on sources. Don't, and you will be restricted from here.
Everyone else, don't rise to the bait or suffer the same fate.
I am sick of that American policy, he is the world.. He only takes the world.
America has a really big bill for IMF.. He actually takes money, but he doesn't want to give it back. So, if the Army is beaten, then USA is in pankrot too.
And like said here before, Osama isn't looking for death dolls, he wants to break the economy and industry of USA, USA wanted to do the same in Iraqi, he didn't want to just kill people, but he did. He wanted to break down Hussein and take his oil, not to just go and kill people. Goverment actually don't care about how many people die or so..
Now, we are to believe that he's trying to help our people?
The second that we start being bled dry economically, the president orders the major car companies to start turning out tanks, and gives due compensation in the form of government bonds. Taxes go up, troops are deployed, the war ends, and the debt is payed off.
Now, we are to believe that he's trying to help our people? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Seeing as the American/European model of democracy involves reaping the benefits of open government and economy on the expense of others, one does really see the appeal Osama's ideas have among unfortunates in the receiving end of the euroamerican prison sex surprise. The existence of an organization such as al-Qaeda sort of balances out the karma gap caused by our willingness either to take part in genocides, coups and economic opression, or to stand aside and watch in the other direction still refusing to interfere.
Executing a plan to kill 3000 civilians makes one a very bad man, but it's not like the men in the opposite end of the table have any less bodies on their conscience. To the statesman and the terrorist alike they are just names in the book of the dead. They do not matter. Reciting condolences for the families of the fallen means nothing more than kissing a baby on the campaign trail.
One thing must be understood, however: Terrorism plays for both sides. With an act of terror Osama and his ilk get media attention, which is more important to a terrorist than whether the attack was carried out successfully or not. Without media attention terrorism is null, since you cannot frighten the ignorant. On the other hand, the more terror occurs, the more the governments can rally their people behind them even for the most questionable of causes. When looking purely from the media perspective the terrorist cannot win. The fear caused by their attacks only rarely weakens the resolve of nations. Thus, a terror movement must always have some other goal, and Osama has a pleanty. It's unlikely he will go down in history as anything but a murderer, but it appears that to him it is worth it if he is closer to his goal when he dies than he was when he was born.
Now, we are to believe that he's trying to help our people? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Seeing as the American/European model of democracy involves reaping the benefits of open government and economy on the expense of others, one does really see the appeal Osama's ideas have among unfortunates in the receiving end of the euroamerican prison sex surprise. The existence of an organization such as al-Qaeda sort of balances out the karma gap caused by our willingness either to take part in genocides, coups and economic opression, or to stand aside and watch in the other direction still refusing to interfere.
Executing a plan to kill 3000 civilians makes one a very bad man, but it's not like the men in the opposite end of the table have any less bodies on their conscience. To the statesman and the terrorist alike they are just names in the book of the dead. They do not matter. Reciting condolences for the families of the fallen means nothing more than kissing a baby on the campaign trail.
One thing must be understood, however: Terrorism plays for both sides. With an act of terror Osama and his ilk get media attention, which is more important to a terrorist than whether the attack was carried out successfully or not. Without media attention terrorism is null, since you cannot frighten the ignorant. On the other hand, the more terror occurs, the more the governments can rally their people behind them even for the most questionable of causes. When looking purely from the media perspective the terrorist cannot win. The fear caused by their attacks only rarely weakens the resolve of nations. Thus, a terror movement must always have some other goal, and Osama has a pleanty. It's unlikely he will go down in history as anything but a murderer, but it appears that to him it is worth it if he is closer to his goal when he dies than he was when he was born. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Very well thought out. I enjoyed reading, and I apologize I that I don't have a worthy comeback.
However, I can certainly say I doubt Osama's overall goal is not the liberation of the American people. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
We are also killing a lot more of them than they are of us. It's called technology, it costs money.
One could say his ultimate goal is liberation <b>from</b> the American people <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->