coilAmateur pirate. Professional monkey. All pance.Join Date: 2002-04-12Member: 424Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
There are good movies and crap movies... there are movies that make you cry and ones that make you laugh. There are movies that move you and movies that don't affect you at all.
Why should documentaries be any different? F9/11 is held in different esteem by different people, and that's fine by me. If we all agreed on everything the world would be a very boring place.
<!--QuoteBegin-coil+Oct 25 2004, 12:10 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (coil @ Oct 25 2004, 12:10 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> There are good movies and crap movies... there are movies that make you cry and ones that make you laugh. There are movies that move you and movies that don't affect you at all.
Why should documentaries be any different? F9/11 is held in different esteem by different people, and that's fine by me. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Aha! But you don't hold it as an equal to a good documentary like say, I dunno "T-Shirt Travels" then. And that is the most I can hope for.
BTW: <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If we all agreed on everything the world would be a very boring place.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> But then, in that situation, communism would finally work.
<!--QuoteBegin-reasa+Oct 24 2004, 08:21 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (reasa @ Oct 24 2004, 08:21 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I would recommend you don't watch it and go read a good book or something not filled with twisted half truths.
Dawn of the Dead comes out on Tuesday. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Seriously though, if you want to watch a <i>good</i> documentary go watch Super Size Me. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Amen. Super Size Me was great.
I got McDonalds on the way home from that movie, it never tasted so good.
And its pretty gruesome, charred corpses without heads being hung from a bridge overhang of some sort..
<!--QuoteBegin-UZi+Oct 24 2004, 11:17 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (UZi @ Oct 24 2004, 11:17 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Rated P for Propaganda! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> DUN DUN DAA lol just asking, is there really real footage in there?
UZiEight inches of C4 between the legs.Join Date: 2003-02-20Member: 13767Members
edited October 2004
You could almost contradict every part of it.
And since Moore doesn't mind piracy, and downloading of his movies, heres the same movie +FACTS. <span style='color:orange'>Link removed. I've seen the video of the interview with Moore saying he doesn't mind people sharing his works, but *we* don't allow piracy of movies.</span>
That_Annoying_KidSire of TitlesJoin Date: 2003-03-01Member: 14175Members, Constellation
f911 has the scene with the charred headless bodies on the bridge, the farmer and his kids being killed by the apache [you see the shells go towards them and then you don't see them] and there is just general language that may be construed as offensive.
EpidemicDark Force GorgeJoin Date: 2003-06-29Member: 17781Members
edited October 2004
<!--QuoteBegin-UZi+Oct 24 2004, 09:03 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (UZi @ Oct 24 2004, 09:03 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> You could almost contradict every part of it.
<span style='color:orange'>Link removed</span>
And since Moore doesn't mind piracy, and downloading of his movies, heres the same movie +FACTS. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> If that the real movie I dont think you should link to it <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Nemesis Zero+Oct 25 2004, 02:53 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nemesis Zero @ Oct 25 2004, 02:53 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Little suggestion: Take F9/11 as satire. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> That is probably all the discussion about that movie that this thread needs <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
So what? He shows war casualties. Thats disgusting you? Well that is what war is looking like. Its ugly, its horrific. It is not all about some night-shots with some distant mg-sound and gunfire flashes. You should watch the movie, and think about these pictures. Thats the intention of the movie.
Hooray for no easy solutions: Do we restrict a movie because it contains footage of real violence, and effectively censor reality, or don't we, and have people traumatised by the viciousness of their fellow man?
You might argue that the truth always deserves being told (and I'm not talking about Moore's claims. I'm talking about his war footage, which I have not yet seen disputed). Or you might argue that happiness and emotional well-being are more important than truth. In the end it depends on your perspective.
But if you feel like discussing war, familiarize yourself with it. And prepare to be emotionally scarred. And THIS is why it is so controversial that politics are the ones who START wars, not fight them. Hearing that a hundred men lost their lives in an attack a quarter way around the globe is so much easier than seeing ONE man get literally shripped to shreds by 20mm shells up close.
<!--QuoteBegin-Legat+Oct 29 2004, 08:58 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Legat @ Oct 29 2004, 08:58 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> So what? He shows war casualties. Thats disgusting you? Well that is what war is looking like. Its ugly, its horrific. It is not all about some night-shots with some distant mg-sound and gunfire flashes. You should watch the movie, and think about these pictures. Thats the intention of the movie. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> The problem occurs when pictures are shown out of context. With the sole purpose of evoking an emotional response. The same thing goes for pro-lifers who carry around pictures of aborted fetuses.
I've seen some pretty gruesome sights but the pictures in Moore's film are visceral and go for the sucker-gut punch rather than the cerebral discussion that is necessary.
<!--QuoteBegin-BadKarma+Oct 24 2004, 07:14 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BadKarma @ Oct 24 2004, 07:14 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Theve been exploded a bit, yea. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Don't forget the long distance shot of a beheading in our good friends in Saudi Arabia. It literally is just a 1cm person being beheaded.
<!--QuoteBegin-wizard@psu+Oct 29 2004, 11:14 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (wizard@psu @ Oct 29 2004, 11:14 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Legat+Oct 29 2004, 08:58 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Legat @ Oct 29 2004, 08:58 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> So what? He shows war casualties. Thats disgusting you? Well that is what war is looking like. Its ugly, its horrific. It is not all about some night-shots with some distant mg-sound and gunfire flashes. You should watch the movie, and think about these pictures. Thats the intention of the movie. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> The problem occurs when pictures are shown out of context. With the sole purpose of evoking an emotional response. The same thing goes for pro-lifers who carry around pictures of aborted fetuses.
I've seen some pretty gruesome sights but the pictures in Moore's film are visceral and go for the sucker-gut punch rather than the cerebral discussion that is necessary. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Okay, tell that to those who lost limbs in Iraq and see if you walk out of the hospital.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The problem occurs when pictures are shown out of context. With the sole purpose of evoking an emotional response. The same thing goes for pro-lifers who carry around pictures of aborted fetuses.
I've seen some pretty gruesome sights but the pictures in Moore's film are visceral and go for the sucker-gut punch rather than the cerebral discussion that is necessary. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why are they out of context then? War is no video game. Just because CNN shows no carcaces does not mean there are none. It easy to talk about wars or start wars when one has never seen them, but reality is brutal. Take Bush senior. That man knows how war looks like. He has been in war, he was responsible for subordinates and comrades, and lost both. He was shot down himself once iirc. He DID knwo what would happen when he started a war. His little Gorgieboy on the other hand does not know what pain he inflicts on his troops and the enemy, not to mention the civilians.
Neither does the broad mass of the people who watch their news and see fascinating pictures of marching troops and sterile scenes of distand combat situations.
There is nothing bad, nor out of context in showing the dirty side of the action. There is no nessesity for discusion by the way. The nessesity is for some enlightenment about what is going on down there.
If you want to see a good movie that is not bias in any way, go see Team America World Police. To be honest its the best movie i have seen in years... also very well done.
<!--QuoteBegin-cannon_fodder1990+Nov 2 2004, 10:49 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (cannon_fodder1990 @ Nov 2 2004, 10:49 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I completely fail to see why something, just because it's biased, is not a documentary. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> The line between bias and deception has been crossed. Multiple times. By this man. Claiming that there is zero deciet in his film and that everything is 100% true and checked by a team of fact checkers and if anyone tells you there is a falsehood in it then they are lying.
If anyone, in the course of a debate, treated me the way Micheal Moore treats his audience - I would probably resort to positive punishment: The addition of a stimulus to decrease a certain behaviour, otherwise known as a damn good Rogering/flogging. Dont tell me stuff if you know it aint true, but you can make it sound like its true.
People do not view documentaries as vehicles for opinion, but more like textbooks containing factual information.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Why are they out of context then? War is no video game. Just because CNN shows no carcaces does not mean there are none. It easy to talk about wars or start wars when one has never seen them, but reality is brutal. Take Bush senior. That man knows how war looks like. He has been in war, he was responsible for subordinates and comrades, and lost both. He was shot down himself once iirc. He DID knwo what would happen when he started a war. His little Gorgieboy on the other hand does not know what pain he inflicts on his troops and the enemy, not to mention the civilians.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh I see, so only someone whose actually ever fought in a war is allowed to start one. So that means that military service (active, they have to see combat) should be compulsory for American Presidents. Geez, guess Clinton should never have got in the White House then. War is brutal, civilans are easily swayed by bad news and horrific images. If the US public got to view every last little gory detail of WW2, then I have no doubt they would have packed up a LONG time before 1945. Moore tried to make out that everything was peachy in Iraq, and only turned sour when American bombs started falling - please remember, before replying, that I did see this movie. Twice. You will not be successful in claiming "that's not how he meant it".
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Claiming that there is zero deciet in his film and that everything is 100% true and checked by a team of fact checkers and if anyone tells you there is a falsehood in it then they are lying. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
We are talking about the US right? So, if that were true, then the persons his lies are aiming at would simply sue him till judgement day. If he would ever make a false claim his opponents could ruin him on court.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Oh I see, so only someone whose actually ever fought in a war is allowed to start one. So that means that military service (active, they have to see combat) should be compulsory for American Presidents. Geez, guess Clinton should never have got in the White House then. War is brutal, civilans are easily swayed by bad news and horrific images. If the US public got to view every last little gory detail of WW2, then I have no doubt they would have packed up a LONG time before 1945. Moore tried to make out that everything was peachy in Iraq, and only turned sour when American bombs started falling - please remember, before replying, that I did see this movie. Twice. You will not be successful in claiming "that's not how he meant it".<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, actually that is my firm opinion.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Twice. You will not be successful in claiming "that's not how he meant it".<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Did I ever make such claims? However, for the majority of people, the Iraq was not a bad place to live. Before the Desert Storm and the embargo that is... The women were free to wear what they liked and work where they wanted. Saddam was oriented on western living standards and inteded to create a modern society. Of course, Iraq was not democratic. However that did not bother anyone, not even the suppressed minorities. Because these people are not accustomed to the idea of democracy. Of course he commited abominable crimes against his population (or rather, against his enemies living within his borders). Yet, not more than a few centuries ago such deeds were commited in various so called civilized Western Nations that brutally restricted minorities within their borders from claiming their independence. The US did so. The british did so. The French did so. The Russians did so, Germany did so, Everybody did so. Some of these conflicts still rage to the present day. So, who are we to judge them?
Besides, Moore showed picures fo Bagdadh before the bombing as I understand it. There was peaceful everydays life before the bombings, I am pretty sure of that. So he did actually not show or hide any vital information on that account.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Michael Moore is the modern day Joseph Goebbels. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That comparison, my dear, would most likely fit on certain persons responsible for certain news agencies, which supported certain claims about certain WMDs which certainly were in Iraq.....
"seit 22 Uhr wird zurückgeschossen!" That is a quote from the official statement on Hilters declaration of war against Poland, after "Polish paramilitary troops" attacked a German outpost on the border......."hint hint". So, can we stop this now?
also, Perdition Flamethrower I strongly suggest you remove that picture before a moderator might step by and think tis is an appropiate time to lock the thread and ban some trolls.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Woah wait, Am I seeing things? Did the conservatives just invoke godwins law first!?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
good question. I have yet to see an actual political statement from flamethrower.....
Comments
Why should documentaries be any different? F9/11 is held in different esteem by different people, and that's fine by me. If we all agreed on everything the world would be a very boring place.
Why should documentaries be any different? F9/11 is held in different esteem by different people, and that's fine by me. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Aha! But you don't hold it as an equal to a good documentary like say, I dunno "T-Shirt Travels" then. And that is the most I can hope for.
BTW:
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If we all agreed on everything the world would be a very boring place.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
But then, in that situation, communism would finally work.
Dawn of the Dead comes out on Tuesday. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Seriously though, if you want to watch a <i>good</i> documentary go watch Super Size Me. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Amen. Super Size Me was great.
I got McDonalds on the way home from that movie, it never tasted so good.
And its pretty gruesome, charred corpses without heads being hung from a bridge overhang of some sort..
And its propaganda.
DUN DUN DAA lol just asking, is there really real footage in there?
And since Moore doesn't mind piracy, and downloading of his movies, heres the same movie +FACTS.
<span style='color:orange'>Link removed. I've seen the video of the interview with Moore saying he doesn't mind people sharing his works, but *we* don't allow piracy of movies.</span>
<span style='color:orange'>Link removed</span>
And since Moore doesn't mind piracy, and downloading of his movies, heres the same movie +FACTS. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If that the real movie I dont think you should link to it <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Little suggestion: Take F9/11 as satire.
Little suggestion: Take F9/11 as satire. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
That is probably all the discussion about that movie that this thread needs <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
It is not all about some night-shots with some distant mg-sound and gunfire flashes.
You should watch the movie, and think about these pictures. Thats the intention of the movie.
You might argue that the truth always deserves being told (and I'm not talking about Moore's claims. I'm talking about his war footage, which I have not yet seen disputed). Or you might argue that happiness and emotional well-being are more important than truth. In the end it depends on your perspective.
But if you feel like discussing war, familiarize yourself with it. And prepare to be emotionally scarred. And THIS is why it is so controversial that politics are the ones who START wars, not fight them. Hearing that a hundred men lost their lives in an attack a quarter way around the globe is so much easier than seeing ONE man get literally shripped to shreds by 20mm shells up close.
It is not all about some night-shots with some distant mg-sound and gunfire flashes.
You should watch the movie, and think about these pictures. Thats the intention of the movie. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
The problem occurs when pictures are shown out of context. With the sole purpose of evoking an emotional response. The same thing goes for pro-lifers who carry around pictures of aborted fetuses.
I've seen some pretty gruesome sights but the pictures in Moore's film are visceral and go for the sucker-gut punch rather than the cerebral discussion that is necessary.
Don't forget the long distance shot of a beheading in our good friends in Saudi Arabia. It literally is just a 1cm person being beheaded.
It is not all about some night-shots with some distant mg-sound and gunfire flashes.
You should watch the movie, and think about these pictures. Thats the intention of the movie. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The problem occurs when pictures are shown out of context. With the sole purpose of evoking an emotional response. The same thing goes for pro-lifers who carry around pictures of aborted fetuses.
I've seen some pretty gruesome sights but the pictures in Moore's film are visceral and go for the sucker-gut punch rather than the cerebral discussion that is necessary. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Okay, tell that to those who lost limbs in Iraq and see if you walk out of the hospital.
I've seen some pretty gruesome sights but the pictures in Moore's film are visceral and go for the sucker-gut punch rather than the cerebral discussion that is necessary. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why are they out of context then? War is no video game. Just because CNN shows no carcaces does not mean there are none. It easy to talk about wars or start wars when one has never seen them, but reality is brutal. Take Bush senior. That man knows how war looks like. He has been in war, he was responsible for subordinates and comrades, and lost both. He was shot down himself once iirc.
He DID knwo what would happen when he started a war.
His little Gorgieboy on the other hand does not know what pain he inflicts on his troops and the enemy, not to mention the civilians.
Neither does the broad mass of the people who watch their news and see fascinating pictures of marching troops and sterile scenes of distand combat situations.
There is nothing bad, nor out of context in showing the dirty side of the action. There is no nessesity for discusion by the way. The nessesity is for some enlightenment about what is going on down there.
If you want to see a good movie that is not bias in any way, go see Team America World Police. To be honest its the best movie i have seen in years... also very well done.
The line between bias and deception has been crossed. Multiple times. By this man. Claiming that there is zero deciet in his film and that everything is 100% true and checked by a team of fact checkers and if anyone tells you there is a falsehood in it then they are lying.
If anyone, in the course of a debate, treated me the way Micheal Moore treats his audience - I would probably resort to positive punishment: The addition of a stimulus to decrease a certain behaviour, otherwise known as a damn good Rogering/flogging. Dont tell me stuff if you know it aint true, but you can make it sound like its true.
People do not view documentaries as vehicles for opinion, but more like textbooks containing factual information.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Why are they out of context then? War is no video game. Just because CNN shows no carcaces does not mean there are none. It easy to talk about wars or start wars when one has never seen them, but reality is brutal. Take Bush senior. That man knows how war looks like. He has been in war, he was responsible for subordinates and comrades, and lost both. He was shot down himself once iirc.
He DID knwo what would happen when he started a war.
His little Gorgieboy on the other hand does not know what pain he inflicts on his troops and the enemy, not to mention the civilians.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh I see, so only someone whose actually ever fought in a war is allowed to start one. So that means that military service (active, they have to see combat) should be compulsory for American Presidents. Geez, guess Clinton should never have got in the White House then. War is brutal, civilans are easily swayed by bad news and horrific images. If the US public got to view every last little gory detail of WW2, then I have no doubt they would have packed up a LONG time before 1945. Moore tried to make out that everything was peachy in Iraq, and only turned sour when American bombs started falling - please remember, before replying, that I did see this movie. Twice. You will not be successful in claiming "that's not how he meant it".
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
We are talking about the US right? So, if that were true, then the persons his lies are aiming at would simply sue him till judgement day. If he would ever make a false claim his opponents could ruin him on court.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Oh I see, so only someone whose actually ever fought in a war is allowed to start one. So that means that military service (active, they have to see combat) should be compulsory for American Presidents. Geez, guess Clinton should never have got in the White House then. War is brutal, civilans are easily swayed by bad news and horrific images. If the US public got to view every last little gory detail of WW2, then I have no doubt they would have packed up a LONG time before 1945. Moore tried to make out that everything was peachy in Iraq, and only turned sour when American bombs started falling - please remember, before replying, that I did see this movie. Twice. You will not be successful in claiming "that's not how he meant it".<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, actually that is my firm opinion.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Twice. You will not be successful in claiming "that's not how he meant it".<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Did I ever make such claims?
However, for the majority of people, the Iraq was not a bad place to live. Before the Desert Storm and the embargo that is...
The women were free to wear what they liked and work where they wanted. Saddam was oriented on western living standards and inteded to create a modern society.
Of course, Iraq was not democratic. However that did not bother anyone, not even the suppressed minorities. Because these people are not accustomed to the idea of democracy.
Of course he commited abominable crimes against his population (or rather, against his enemies living within his borders). Yet, not more than a few centuries ago such deeds were commited in various so called civilized Western Nations that brutally restricted minorities within their borders from claiming their independence. The US did so. The british did so. The French did so. The Russians did so, Germany did so, Everybody did so. Some of these conflicts still rage to the present day.
So, who are we to judge them?
Besides, Moore showed picures fo Bagdadh before the bombing as I understand it. There was peaceful everydays life before the bombings, I am pretty sure of that. So he did actually not show or hide any vital information on that account.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Michael Moore is the modern day Joseph Goebbels. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That comparison, my dear, would most likely fit on certain persons responsible for certain news agencies, which supported certain claims about certain WMDs which certainly were in Iraq.....
"seit 22 Uhr wird zurückgeschossen!"
That is a quote from the official statement on Hilters declaration of war against Poland, after "Polish paramilitary troops" attacked a German outpost on the border......."hint hint". So, can we stop this now?
also, Perdition Flamethrower I strongly suggest you remove that picture before a moderator might step by and think tis is an appropiate time to lock the thread and ban some trolls.
good question. I have yet to see an actual political statement from flamethrower.....