Quick consept art of the docks. 5 min drawing and very simple but shows what im aiming for. Would be building my map but dont have Hammer at work <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->.
Im building the basics, no fancy corners. After that ill destroy it, adding craters, rubble and more damage to the buildings
You really have to find some way to get around the height and openness problem. I saw the industrial picture and thought that that would be the best way. Throw a lot of rock over the top with a few skylights. Since the planet you're on is incredibly small and incredibly hot some trigger_hurts, getting progressively more damaging the closer to the rock could be a good idea. Hard to explain though.
Another way to get around it is by building a city as if it were underwater. You'd keep the indoors requisites of NS gameplay but still have the feeling of the great outdoors. I'm scared about the r_speeds though, details will have to be miniminimal to keep 'em down if you're not a vis-blocking GURU.
You can coat the sky in a func_push that points towards the ground. Not a massive one, just enough to keep skulks from being able to stick to the skybrush. And outdoors areas can work, if you're careful with them. Just because you have, say, a wide open street, doesn't mean that there should be no cover. Unless you're just lazy. Debris, vehicles, fallen bits of buildings, broken pavement sticking up, etc. etc. There are a million ways to make cover in a city, and not using them is just rude to the poor little aliens.
I dunno a bout everyone else but those hives look awfully close to each other... in the first concept ms is way across the other side of the map and all the hives are along the back...i couldn't quite make out the others ones but ah...also as far as themes go. or any background behind ns. the frontiresment to my knowledge are out in space or on some planet or ship and confront the kharaa, so this who outdoorsy idea is kinda not fitting. i think an out door section on an alien map would work, but an entire outdoor map would either be really buggy or tottaly marine biased.
Story wise the kharaa are usually sealed off in one area, whether it's a derelict ship or a planetside base that has been entirely locked down. The TSA are usually there to keep them from spreading to the world at large, or to reclaim the ship or base for further use.
To keep within the bounds of the story world, while still making the map the way you want it, simply say that the world is either an early colony world that only had one settlement (which is now wiped out, obviously) or else is a failed colony world that was already abandoned by the time the Kharaa showed up. (maybe one of those drifting derelict ships got stuck in the gravity well and ended up here? get creative) Either way, it's a world that wasn't heavily populated and so the kharaa spreading in the open air isn't a problem. But maybe there's an important bit of research/technology/magical pixie dust that the TSA have to go in and grab.
You can always stay within the rules while still breaking them. Rules are there so you <i>think</i> good and hard before you break them. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Kester+Jun 24 2004, 06:15 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Kester @ Jun 24 2004, 06:15 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> did everyone just neglet to see my post, it might look good, but it wud play awfully <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Well... to counter act it, have things like emergency force field generators that the marines can activate in the gunship... they'd stay on for about 10 seconds and would only be toggleable every 2 minutes, untill the marines weld 3 power generators that would allow them to stay on for 15 seconds and be used once every minute.
They wouldn't block entire street widths, but they'd be toggleable (maybe 5 total) to slow aliens down... marines can pass thru em tho
while the aliens could have their hives indoors to prevent mass GL spammage
well, first things first, ive read the entire post(well, maybe skimmed a little) and if your going to make this real detailed, i can see you getting the error"MAX PATCHES EXCEEDED"
depending on how big u plan on making this(which since its a city i would presume pretty big) you must account for the bounds of halflife maps, I have created a city map for NS/CS a while back for a LAN party(not real detailed but still exceeded max patches) and I created about realistic sized city buildings/roads/etc. It takes up alot of space. Ive included an overhead view showing the sizing, and i went to the LIMIT of half-life sized maps.
You must be aware my textures on my buildings/pavement/sidewalk/fenceing/etc. are about an ugly 800% texture size
In order for trigger_push to have any worthwhile effect on skulks it useually has to be powerful enough to send the player all the way accross the map, else if the player keeps pressing forward they can overide the trigger_push and keep wallwalking(and they useually can use leap fast enough to get through the trigger_push) I do believe Meat_popsicle provided the best idea, line of fairly high buildings sorounding the map, and by the time you reach the skybox there would clouds of killer gas to keep movement regulated(wouldn't recomend instand kill, give them like 5-10 sec to die so you dont slip up with the jp and die.
now that ive seriously harrased all your plans, Huge advertising signs work nice for bit cover/wall(you know, billboards on top of builings or attached to buildings and hanging out onto to street). traffic lights are good(i just used HL red and green button for them lol). depending on how new it is, tin fenceing, texture allready comes with HL(easier and less costly then chainlink+cant fire through) vents and trim on top of buildings give nice effect(u know those vents that come out sideways from a curved vent on top of a building or an angled vent comming out). side walks are also like a must have too. and really just haveing a bridge to be the only access to marine base is like easiest camping on an open map, Onos= obsolete.
cant think of anything else might check up on later.
:'( .... bugger. Re-think needed... right. Im gonna go for the tall buildings idea with thick toxic smoke up high where you cant breath so it kills you. Nice idea with the signs for the large walls <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->. Their will be a route through the building to marine start along with a overflow pipe coming from the river. Originaly i was thinking of having drains which the aliens can run around and pop up in tons of locations along the roads.
I have already made the dock area once and beleive i can get it this new one bellow 800 w-polys. You can see the old in an earlier post. So if u want to have a look thats the DL for the BSP.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Kabuum: Add a big tower crane what falls over when you shoot it too much<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> NOTE: Do NOT give me ideas like this i will try to do them.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->ChkChkChk: I dunno a bout everyone else but those hives look awfully close to each other... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> The Hives are pritty close but this is a large map so their further than u think. Im gonna have to make it then see how it works. Shouldnt be too hard to extend areas.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Kabuum: Actually I didnt get one thing, is this city metallic or like really old WWII like thing?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Was going to be an old Dock yard for transporting Iron Ore. So now its either gonna be Black Chared Stone or Damaged Chared/Rusty Futuristic Structures.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->BulletHead: Well... to counter act it, have things like emergency force field generators<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Im going to have a consol on the ship that when pressed fires an artilary strike. These will be 3 mole mortars next to the gun ship which can be destroyed. Not your average mole mortal either, im getting this idea off space marine. They fire underground and come up from underneith your feet so you hardly hear them <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
This is based on a planet colonised by the Marines for its mineral content (irn ore??). A major gap in their defence alowed karaa to crash on the planet and populate it. This might be a replacement for the House Hive at the bottom left of the map, A crashed ship 50% burried.
i thought i might post some screens of my old city map, give you an idea of whats happenin
Big signs on top of roofs, for various building sizes, recomended for short buildings My crappy stoplights based from HL red and green buttons Tin fencing for the alleys
For taller buildings you can use pole signs that stick out into the road, if the city is ruins haveing a couple or so of these smashed into the road would made a great improvised wall. even just haveing like the top pole broke off leaving it to hang sideways from the bottom one like a hinge(reaching to the ground or real close[like crouching size height]).
BTW I thought that advertisement was a good affect, lol, i dont know about you guys.
There are unlimited choices you could use to plug up alleys, if you get your hand on a like broken car model though you can have another asset to plug up the streets(or several). models are easier and look better too, generally. just a little space consumeing.
This is just an example about what i meant about trimming and vents, trimming looks good, and allows easier and more cover for rooftops, vents look good and provide cover for building to building fire.
I would like you to notice the HUGE UGLY building textures too, they are bigger than realistic size, and.. ..and.. ..just plain ugly. that keeps the MAX PATCHES error away, so unless you make a custom like 16x16 bit picture that will look ugly but take up less space and be the right size you will hav HUGE windows
Comments
Im building the basics, no fancy corners. After that ill destroy it, adding craters, rubble and more damage to the buildings
Another way to get around it is by building a city as if it were underwater. You'd keep the indoors requisites of NS gameplay but still have the feeling of the great outdoors. I'm scared about the r_speeds though, details will have to be miniminimal to keep 'em down if you're not a vis-blocking GURU.
so if you use that they cant walk on the sky
You might want to read over that. That will be a good checklist to make sure you've covered most problems that are inherent in an outdoor map.
To keep within the bounds of the story world, while still making the map the way you want it, simply say that the world is either an early colony world that only had one settlement (which is now wiped out, obviously) or else is a failed colony world that was already abandoned by the time the Kharaa showed up. (maybe one of those drifting derelict ships got stuck in the gravity well and ended up here? get creative) Either way, it's a world that wasn't heavily populated and so the kharaa spreading in the open air isn't a problem. But maybe there's an important bit of research/technology/magical pixie dust that the TSA have to go in and grab.
You can always stay within the rules while still breaking them. Rules are there so you <i>think</i> good and hard before you break them. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Actually I didnt get one thing, is this city metallic or like really old WWII like thing?
Just make it metallic, then it gives you a theme what allows you to cover up some huge room what take too much recources and stuff.
Well... to counter act it, have things like emergency force field generators that the marines can activate in the gunship... they'd stay on for about 10 seconds and would only be toggleable every 2 minutes, untill the marines weld 3 power generators that would allow them to stay on for 15 seconds and be used once every minute.
They wouldn't block entire street widths, but they'd be toggleable (maybe 5 total) to slow aliens down... marines can pass thru em tho
while the aliens could have their hives indoors to prevent mass GL spammage
depending on how big u plan on making this(which since its a city i would presume pretty big) you must account for the bounds of halflife maps, I have created a city map for NS/CS a while back for a LAN party(not real detailed but still exceeded max patches) and I created about realistic sized city buildings/roads/etc. It takes up alot of space. Ive included an overhead view showing the sizing, and i went to the LIMIT of half-life sized maps.
You must be aware my textures on my buildings/pavement/sidewalk/fenceing/etc. are about an ugly 800% texture size
In order for trigger_push to have any worthwhile effect on skulks it useually has to be powerful enough to send the player all the way accross the map, else if the player keeps pressing forward they can overide the trigger_push and keep wallwalking(and they useually can use leap fast enough to get through the trigger_push) I do believe Meat_popsicle provided the best idea, line of fairly high buildings sorounding the map, and by the time you reach the skybox there would clouds of killer gas to keep movement regulated(wouldn't recomend instand kill, give them like 5-10 sec to die so you dont slip up with the jp and die.
now that ive seriously harrased all your plans, Huge advertising signs work nice for bit cover/wall(you know, billboards on top of builings or attached to buildings and hanging out onto to street). traffic lights are good(i just used HL red and green button for them lol). depending on how new it is, tin fenceing, texture allready comes with HL(easier and less costly then chainlink+cant fire through) vents and trim on top of buildings give nice effect(u know those vents that come out sideways from a curved vent on top of a building or an angled vent comming out). side walks are also like a must have too. and really just haveing a bridge to be the only access to marine base is like easiest camping on an open map, Onos= obsolete.
cant think of anything else might check up on later.
Re-think needed... right.
Im gonna go for the tall buildings idea with thick toxic smoke up high where you cant breath so it kills you.
Nice idea with the signs for the large walls <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->.
Their will be a route through the building to marine start along with a overflow pipe coming from the river.
Originaly i was thinking of having drains which the aliens can run around and pop up in tons of locations along the roads.
I have already made the dock area once and beleive i can get it this new one bellow 800 w-polys. You can see the old in an earlier post. So if u want to have a look thats the DL for the BSP.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Kabuum: Add a big tower crane what falls over when you shoot it too much<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
NOTE: Do NOT give me ideas like this i will try to do them.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->ChkChkChk: I dunno a bout everyone else but those hives look awfully close to each other... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The Hives are pritty close but this is a large map so their further than u think. Im gonna have to make it then see how it works. Shouldnt be too hard to extend areas.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Kabuum: Actually I didnt get one thing, is this city metallic or like really old WWII like thing?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Was going to be an old Dock yard for transporting Iron Ore. So now its either gonna be Black Chared Stone or Damaged Chared/Rusty Futuristic Structures.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->BulletHead: Well... to counter act it, have things like emergency force field generators<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Im going to have a consol on the ship that when pressed fires an artilary strike. These will be 3 mole mortars next to the gun ship which can be destroyed. Not your average mole mortal either, im getting this idea off space marine. They fire underground and come up from underneith your feet so you hardly hear them <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
This is based on a planet colonised by the Marines for its mineral content (irn ore??). A major gap in their defence alowed karaa to crash on the planet and populate it. This might be a replacement for the House Hive at the bottom left of the map, A crashed ship 50% burried.
Big signs on top of roofs, for various building sizes, recomended for short buildings
My crappy stoplights based from HL red and green buttons
Tin fencing for the alleys
BTW I thought that advertisement was a good affect, lol, i dont know about you guys.
I would like you to notice the HUGE UGLY building textures too, they are bigger than realistic size, and.. ..and.. ..just plain ugly. that keeps the MAX PATCHES error away, so unless you make a custom like 16x16 bit picture that will look ugly but take up less space and be the right size you will hav HUGE windows